Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Posted: 12/6/2012 8:44:52 AM EDT
A toxic cloud covers Buenos Aires.

Buenos Aires - There were reports of a mass evacuation ordered of the city of Buenos Aires, after a chemical container exploded, covering the Argentinian capital with a huge toxic cloud. Apparently it wasn't that bad.
The container was reportedly still engulfed in flames after the explosion and initial reports suggested that it was filled with either pesticide or mercury, both of which are dangerous commodities under such circumstances. A later report by Univision News on Twitter states that the chemical was a pesticide or insecticide.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/338481#ixzz2EILASzuu

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-06/toxic-cloud-covers-downtown-buenos-aires-from-container-fire-1-.html
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/338481

But dont worry, the authorities say  its not toxic... its... burning pesticide... . Man, I miss that Argentine sense of humor. "People arent killed here, its just a sensation of crime" "No, the toxic cloud of burning pesticide isnt dangerous".

Anyway, if this doesnt proof that having air covered is important, I dont know what will. Nope, a simple face mask wont help much, better than notihng I suppose, but this is where a good NBC respirator is priceless.

FerFAL
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 8:50:22 AM EDT
[#1]
mine is actually rated fo several horus of burning pesticide exposure, and I have 1000 replacement filters through work, but only 3 at home.
Gotta love the office supplying good stuff.
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 9:24:17 AM EDT
[#2]
We have gas masks at home, but common sense finally hit me up beside my head after seeing your post ferfal and I'm now in the market for a couple masks to keep in our vehicles. We work in an area with a lot of potential wtf and having a couple masks in the vehicles seems prudent.
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 10:02:46 AM EDT
[#3]
For stuff like burning chemicals, I think a SCBA would be more appropriate than aan NBC mask. i mean, its better than nothing, but still......
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 10:20:12 AM EDT
[#4]


Quoted:
For stuff like burning chemicals, I think a SCBA would be more appropriate than aan NBC mask. i mean, its better than nothing, but still......


mmm.. I dont know, those arent just expensive, they are heavy and once you run out of oxigen, you're done. A quality modern mask like the M50 (US) or GSR (UK) are more than enough to deal with any toxic fumes. The GSR will last a full day of NBC. Not cheap, but Id rather buy those and a good ammount of replacement filters rather than SCBA. SCBA is mosltly for when there's no air to breathe at all, like during an intense fire. For filtering, I'd just get a good mask.

Quoted:
We have gas masks at home, but common sense finally hit me up beside my head after seeing your post ferfal and I'm now in the market for a couple masks to keep in our vehicles. We work in an area with a lot of potential wtf and having a couple masks in the vehicles seems prudent.

There's still some cheap Isreali mask which should work ok with fresh 40mm cannisters.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 10:33:09 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 10:59:53 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Personally seen four of those in life, three burning train cars and one chemical plant explosion.  

For most of us, the idea is get away from it, not work and live in it.  I'm fine with inexpensive masks that work.

Tj


More likely to get hurt by a falling coconut.
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 11:00:16 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:


Quoted:
For stuff like burning chemicals, I think a SCBA would be more appropriate than aan NBC mask. i mean, its better than nothing, but still......


mmm.. I dont know, those arent just expensive, they are heavy and once you run out of oxigen, you're done. A quality modern mask like the M50 (US) or GSR (UK) are more than enough to deal with any toxic fumes. The GSR will last a full day of NBC. Not cheap, but Id rather buy those and a good ammount of replacement filters rather than SCBA. SCBA is mosltly for when there's no air to breathe at all, like during an intense fire. For filtering, I'd just get a good mask.

Quoted:
We have gas masks at home, but common sense finally hit me up beside my head after seeing your post ferfal and I'm now in the market for a couple masks to keep in our vehicles. We work in an area with a lot of potential wtf and having a couple masks in the vehicles seems prudent.

There's still some cheap Isreali mask which should work ok with fresh 40mm cannisters.
FerFAL


I prefer this one:

www.galls.com/CGBCSTYL?PMSTYL=TE057

Link Posted: 12/6/2012 11:08:18 AM EDT
[#8]
This is a good one also:

http://approvedgasmasks.com/msa-millenium.htm
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 11:10:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Personally seen four of those in life, three burning train cars and one chemical plant explosion.  

For most of us, the idea is get away from it, not work and live in it.  I'm fine with inexpensive masks that work.

Tj


More likely to get hurt by a falling coconut.


I think I am closer to a chem plant than an elevated coconut.  

TXL
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 11:12:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Personally seen four of those in life, three burning train cars and one chemical plant explosion.  

For most of us, the idea is get away from it, not work and live in it.  I'm fine with inexpensive masks that work.

Tj


More likely to get hurt by a falling coconut.


TJ has seen four. i'm sure he's been hit by falling coconuts less times.
I'm 33 and I've seen two volcano ash events, and one wildfire burning that left the city covered in some for a month. I missed this one, but it would have been my 4th air related SHTF had I been there.
My relatives in Bs As tell me its pretty bad. Not only people with itchy eyes and respiratory problems, but people were even vomiting on the streets.

FerFAL
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 11:16:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Ok, that's scary right there.  Burning pesticide.    I know nothing about gas masks.  Any links of what to buy?  Pics?  

Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 11:57:33 AM EDT
[#12]
I'd have to agree.

If you're near a rail line, or even an airport, a gas mask would be a serious plus.

Link Posted: 12/6/2012 12:03:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 12:05:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Good thing to have.


Just be aware that having a mask and filter does not mean you are scott free.

There's no wonder filter that stops everything. So who knows what was burning there, so even with a mask there's a chance to die or get really sick. The best advice is to get out of it's path.
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 2:10:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 2:30:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Personally seen four of those in life, three burning train cars and one chemical plant explosion.  

For most of us, the idea is get away from it, not work and live in it.  I'm fine with inexpensive masks that work.

Tj


Gonna keep us hanging?
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 2:33:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
For stuff like burning chemicals, I think a SCBA would be more appropriate than aan NBC mask. i mean, its better than nothing, but still......


SCBA is the best way to go if you can afford it.  It is meant as a temporary means of life support and a catch all for toxic fumes (not 100% still).  When I certified to wear one I was told get what you need to get done quickly and calmly move to fresh air.  Filtered masks are also temporary and sometimes can become worthless quickly depending on ppm in air.
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 3:17:41 PM EDT
[#18]
After a big rig exploded about .25 of a mile from my home 2 weeks ago, I live right off of an Interstate, I started a thread here about what to get. Some good advice there.
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 3:28:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 4:12:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
For stuff like burning chemicals, I think a SCBA would be more appropriate than aan NBC mask. i mean, its better than nothing, but still......


That depends on a lot of factors;

-particle size/filterable
-does the crap give you a warning when it burns through the filter, ie can you smell it./taste it
-is there plenty of 02 for you to breath or is it all burned up
-is the air filled with CO which will bind your hemoglobin up starving you of O2 receptors

-do you have the right filter,  I have a "multi" filter for a MSA mask.  

At work they're referred to as escape masks, only used to evacuate, we aren't entering a danger zone with a filter mask for sure.

I had one near me or rather near where I used to live.  Really fouled up situation.  Dupont Chemical plant on fire in Canada on the St. Lawrence River, smoke, fumes, etc blowing over the river to NY at night while people slept.   We were extremely pissed off about it,  the authorities in Canada gave no alarm to their neighbors in the US less than a half a mile downwind from the plant.  Their excuse for not passing the alarm......they couldn't find the phone number.  US authorities were alerted by complaints of foul odors/smoke.   Lets just say their protocols were rewritten shortly thereafter.  

Remember folks, you don't have to live next to the chemical plant as those products are shipped via rail and truck and even ship/barge everywhere around you.  You never know what will get dumped in you lap.  

Remember the rule of thumb, if you can't hold your thumb up at arm's distance and cover up the accident scene entirely with your thumb, you're too fricken close.  Never stay if you're downwind.

Link Posted: 12/6/2012 4:19:33 PM EDT
[#21]
ok I see the masks for sale in the various catalogs like the Israeli gas mask.

But what about full face resiprator?


I found this website that sells filters and I'm going to check out my resiprator at work but its probably useful.

filters for sale
Link Posted: 12/6/2012 7:28:37 PM EDT
[#22]
I've been wanting to get a couple masks but haven't pulled the trigger yet.  We're about a mile and a half away from a rail line that regularly carries toxic chemicals to and from houston.  I really need to get on the ball... been looking at the MSA millenium or the C50.  Expensive, but I'd rather buy good than buy ok.
Link Posted: 12/7/2012 6:36:39 AM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 12/7/2012 6:53:36 AM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 12/7/2012 7:03:46 AM EDT
[#25]
yeah, the Army pays with glory and medals and keeps the money, good thing military staff don't get OT.  

I wonder how much a bronze or silver star and a certificate costs.

-reminds me of the time one of our supervisors told me to go get the envelope leaking white powder out of an office just after the anthrax incident.  "Go F yourself" came out in a slightly more professional manner mentioning lack of PPE.  


Link Posted: 12/8/2012 3:22:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Ours are ready!
Link Posted: 12/9/2012 10:17:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
BTW, I have a story for you fellas.

Tj Story Time "Cyanide".  

My first job out of the Army was with a municipal consulting engineering firm while I was in college.  One of the cities we represented had a train car wreck and fire.  A plastic component, The result was a cyanide mixture in the cloud and pouring into the river the city we represented got their water.  

My boss handed me a Military gas mask, same mask I used in service, and told me to go out to the spill, find downwind where the cyanide was flowing into the river.     I told him "No Way, in hell was I going to do that." and then went on to explain without a chemical suit, it could suicide.    

Instead, I came up with a plan.  I would located a spot down river of the spill but well upriver of the influent for the city. We don't have to follow it, we just need to know when it gets to a given point. I would sample there twice a day until I found cyanide.  In the meantime the city should run temporary lines from the upriver the big river their river flowed into and I'd tell them when to shutdown or switch over.    

Great plan huh?  Flawed from the start.  The river was frozen except right at its banks and I had no real fast way to detect the cyanide.  It took a while but I solved it.  I used a BOD sampler which nothing more than a concrete bottle with a tube that samples water from top to bottom.  I dropped it off a bridge breaking through the ice to get my sample.  I used the same spot so the ice remained thin.  I'd then shake that up good, sample that, then send that to a local chemical plant lab.  My counter parts came up with using fire hoses to run the water from the big river.  Everyday I was out there, still not in the path of the cloud, I took that mask just in case.  State, county, and Federal EPA guys were all trying to track that spill and quite frankly couldn't due to the ice.  

Long story short, I found the spill, saved the city from having to shut down its water for days buying them the time to get their temporary setup going.  I had EPA guys all over me.  Its like they attached to my butt.  My boss made a ton of money.  So happy with me, he took me to a big city in his private plane for dinner.  The next year, he gave me a pittance raise.  I loaded everything I owned into a Uhaul and moved 1,500 miles to Houston Texas, didn't have a job or knew a soul.  Lived there for years.

All my life, I've lived by the philosophy, keep the glory, give me the money.  Army taught me that, another long story.  Anyway, the philosophy has served me well.  

The moral of the story?  Only a fool goes into harms way when he doesn't have to and when you do, a gas mask is better than nothing.  

Tj


People are just dieing to be the next victim of their stupidity.

Link Posted: 12/10/2012 1:57:51 AM EDT
[#28]
I havent been hit by a coconut yet but...



i did get stranded 50+ miles off shore once,,,doesnt mean i carry a life raft in my truck ( oh wait,,,i really do ) i mean a PFD .



but i have a wide range of "mask"



from 3m M40's, to izzy m15's irrc ( the adult ones that look like m40;s) i have 3 half mask with standard 95n filter carts and also PN100 filters, i long with a 3m 7800 series mask. and a shit ton of  throw away 95 paper mask.



that doesnt mean i will put on my NBC suit, gloves, botties and mask and sit on my couch posting updates while the chemical plume surrounds me.





you de ass the AO. plain and simple.



This is also where your HOUSE location comes into play. Yeah not allof us will or can move to a perfect spot but chosing your living area is pretty easy if you did your research before buying or renting.. Ifyou live 3 doors down from acme chemicals it may be wise to relocate


 
Link Posted: 12/10/2012 5:33:50 AM EDT
[#29]
Military poison gas is very different than chemical plant poison gas. All military gases (including tear gasses CN/CS) are formulated so that the user can be protected while administering the gas to an unprotected enemy. A gas that kills everyone is militarily useless. Most military gas masks use activated charcoal and a few additions to protect the user.

Chemical plant and rail car gases can be almost anything, especially when fire is also involved. Chances are excellent that the military gas mask will quickly get you killed (within seconds)  which is why “scott air packs” ( essentially scuba tanks of air) is used almost exclusively in every chemical plant. I have NEVER seen a chemical plant that used respirator type masks for serious chemicals.
Unless you’re being attacked by a military unit, or tear gas, having a military style gas mask is a waste  of your money
Link Posted: 12/10/2012 5:45:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 12/10/2012 6:20:55 AM EDT
[#31]
I have two coconut trees on my property.

Link Posted: 12/10/2012 8:19:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
I have two coconut trees on my property.



Your dead man and don't e end know it :)


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 12/10/2012 8:54:39 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For stuff like burning chemicals, I think a SCBA would be more appropriate than aan NBC mask. i mean, its better than nothing, but still......


SCBA is the best way to go if you can afford it.  It is meant as a temporary means of life support and a catch all for toxic fumes (not 100% still).  When I certified to wear one I was told get what you need to get done quickly and calmly move to fresh air.  Filtered masks are also temporary and sometimes can become worthless quickly depending on ppm in air.


scba is maint intensive and VERY short term. i have seen fire fighters drain a tank in less than 10 min under stress. tanks a heavy, require pressure testeing every few year to get refilled and are not fast to don. nor can the tanks be swapped easily or many times at all in a hot zone.

they are not for bugout type use imho.


Definitely not for bug out.  I always felt I was moments from suffocation with SCBA on.
Link Posted: 12/10/2012 11:22:20 AM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 12/10/2012 11:41:55 AM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 12/11/2012 9:48:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Picked up my MSA Millenium gas mask today for my get home kit. Since I work for a company that used some very nasty chemicals.

I still need to get two adult and two small mask to round out the family.
Link Posted: 12/12/2012 5:19:09 PM EDT
[#37]
If you really want to get technical it is all about the Protection Factor of the respirators you have available and the amount of chemical in the air.  If the amount of chemical in the air is at IDLH (Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health) OSHA requires the use of an SCBA.  Most industrial emergency response teams do use SCBA's, but because they know what is being used in their facility and it is or has the capability of being monitored for concentration they will wear an APR if is acceptable to do so (based on 1910.134)

I would much rather respond to an industrial fixed facility haz-mat than a transportation haz-mat.  The variables are much more controlled and known in a fixed facility response.  

If you really want to learn a lot about respirators read 29 CFR 1910.134 - It may be OSHA but it is actually really good material.  

If you are concerned about the need for a respirator learn what chemicals are in your neighborhood.  Once you know the chemicals go and find all the info you can about them.  You can find this information just about anywhere with some simple Google searching.  You will want to know IDLH and other Exposure Limits, Specific Gravity and/or Vapor Density (these tell you how the chemical will react when released from it's container).  MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) are the best for this info.  Next go and download CAMEO, ALOHA, and MARPLOT they are free and will help you understand chemical movement in the air (It can do Plume Modeling).  

The best thing is to know what is around and what you would need to protect yourself.  

Stay Safe
Link Posted: 12/13/2012 3:44:53 AM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 12/13/2012 4:43:17 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Military poison gas is very different than chemical plant poison gas. All military gases (including tear gasses CN/CS) are formulated so that the user can be protected while administering the gas to an unprotected enemy. A gas that kills everyone is militarily useless. Most military gas masks use activated charcoal and a few additions to protect the user.

Chemical plant and rail car gases can be almost anything, especially when fire is also involved. Chances are excellent that the military gas mask will quickly get you killed (within seconds)  which is why “scott air packs” ( essentially scuba tanks of air) is used almost exclusively in every chemical plant. I have NEVER seen a chemical plant that used respirator type masks for serious chemicals.
Unless you’re being attacked by a military unit, or tear gas, having a military style gas mask is a waste  of your money



Chemical plant I'm employed at (Industrial Firefighter/Hazmat) issues Scott AV2000 & 3000 face pieces, with adaptors for use with cartridges. These are normally worn by operators while doing line breaks, drumming of material, open atmospheric transfer of materials, etc.

The cartridges used are rated for OV/CL/HC/SD/CD/FM/HF/HS..... Meaning: Organic Vapors, Chlorine, Hydrogen Chloride, Sulfur Dioxide, Chlorine Dioxide, Formaldehyde, Hydrogen Floride, Hydrogen Sulfide.

There are also cartridges for use with AM- Ammonia.

These air purifying respirators are for use in non- IDLH atmospheres.... Cartridges are to be changed out after each use of respirator.

For emergency use & for work in larger concentrations of material, SCBA's (Scotts 5.0's) are to be utilized.

With air purifying respirators there are cautions & limitations

In this day & age, it’s probably not prudent for me to list the materials we store and work with in large quantities, several of which are on the RMP list mandated by congress. But there is some pretty nasty shit…
Link Posted: 12/13/2012 4:53:13 AM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 12/13/2012 6:48:27 AM EDT
[#41]
A filter rated for chlorine is a must. It is not a pleasant way to die.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top