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JAD762
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Posted: 9/5/2012 10:48:58 PM

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Double check your gear.

We lost power for about 4 hours today due to an unknown cause. Other than sweating a bit, it was just an inconvenience.

Except that the wife had a meatloaf in the oven when it happened. We let it sit as long as the oven had heat, but its internal temp never got high enough to be safe. I got the bright idea to put it in a crock pot powered by my battery back up. I got the converter hooked up, turned it on, and got the dead battery tone. We ended up turning the meatloaf into meatloaf burgers which we finished cooking on my Coleman stove, but still I hate the fact that I got complacent and didn't double check my battery.

After the power came back on, I reassessed, made a run to Wally World to pick up some more D batteries, and plan on recharging my 12 volt in the morning.

Lesson learned - shake out your gear every now and then.
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Posted: 9/5/2012 11:21:36 PM
Never good to try and buy batteries when you need them...I tried to get Ds during the last storm for a customer who is home bound.
Her daughter came in from NYC with 6 that she bought at the PATH train station she paid more than 3x the Costco price.

I'm currently staring at my new Genny...I really need to get it out of the carton and oiled up...


wp6529
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Posted: 9/5/2012 11:38:59 PM
An LP or charcoal grill or LP oven in a camper/RV would do nicely to complete the meatloaf. A generator would work as well since an oven is only 2,500W or so usually and intermittent at that.
HuckMeat
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Posted: 9/5/2012 11:57:44 PM
Originally Posted By JAD762:
Double check your gear.

We lost power for about 4 hours today due to an unknown cause. Other than sweating a bit, it was just an inconvenience.

Except that the wife had a meatloaf in the oven when it happened. We let it sit as long as the oven had heat, but its internal temp never got high enough to be safe. I got the bright idea to put it in a crock pot powered by my battery back up. I got the converter hooked up, turned it on, and got the dead battery tone. We ended up turning the meatloaf into meatloaf burgers which we finished cooking on my Coleman stove, but still I hate the fact that I got complacent and didn't double check my battery.

After the power came back on, I reassessed, made a run to Wally World to pick up some more D batteries, and plan on recharging my 12 volt in the morning.

Lesson learned - shake out your gear every now and then.


I doubt a lead acid battery running a crock pot via a 12 volt inverter will cook much for more than a few minutes.

If the element in the crock pot was say, 1000W, that is around 8 amps AC, probably about 80-90 amps @12 DC.

If you have a 90ah deep cycle battery, you will suck the battery dry in less than an hour - But taking a battery below 50-80% depth of discharge is hard on it. Running it all the way down will destroy a lot of batteries.

Heating stuff with batteries is ill advised!

JAD762
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Posted: 9/6/2012 7:33:59 AM
Originally Posted By Rudison:
Never good to try and buy batteries when you need them...I tried to get Ds during the last storm for a customer who is home bound.
Her daughter came in from NYC with 6 that she bought at the PATH train station she paid more than 3x the Costco price.

I'm currently staring at my new Genny...I really need to get it out of the carton and oiled up...




Yeah, a genny is the big gaping hole in my preparations. It's on the list, but we've got our third kid on the way which sinks its priority down a bit.
BTM757
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Posted: 9/6/2012 7:51:48 AM
When I finally buy a house one of the first things that gonna happen is a natural gas fed generator that is enough to run the entire house is being installed. Rarely have we ever had a natural gas interruption and I can't remember a storm that natural gas lines were lost in my area. I know it happens though but thats why you have a backup for your backup.
red_on_black
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Posted: 9/6/2012 8:47:02 AM
Originally Posted By Rudison:

I'm currently staring at my new Genny...I really need to get it out of the carton and oiled up...




Yes, you do. Sometimes they don't start up properly out of the box–– stuck low-oil switches, sticky kill switches, bad plugs, etc.

Test that thing out, then store it with the carb and tank dry.

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend … on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless." - Jeff Snyder
PA22-400
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Posted: 9/6/2012 11:31:40 AM

Originally Posted By BTM757:
When I finally buy a house one of the first things that gonna happen is a natural gas fed generator that is enough to run the entire house is being installed. Rarely have we ever had a natural gas interruption and I can't remember a storm that natural gas lines were lost in my area. I know it happens though but thats why you have a backup for your backup.

Natural gas pipelines are now being pumped by electric driven pumps.

Back on the day that you remember the gas pipelines were pumped by natural gas fired engine driven pumps. That old system would keep the gas flowing as long as the wells produced and the lines were not broken.

Now days the loss of a electric substation in Pampa TX may take out gas service in your VA subdivision.

The gas fired generator is a fine item to have but it will not be as secure as you think because of recent changes in the pipeline system.
Asking for opinions on the internet and then getting upset for getting them is like stirring up a hornets' nest and then getting pissed because you got stung.
Halffast: post 1725
Badlatitude
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Posted: 9/6/2012 11:40:25 AM
Originally Posted By JAD762:
Originally Posted By Rudison:
Never good to try and buy batteries when you need them...I tried to get Ds during the last storm for a customer who is home bound.
Her daughter came in from NYC with 6 that she bought at the PATH train station she paid more than 3x the Costco price.

I'm currently staring at my new Genny...I really need to get it out of the carton and oiled up...




Yeah, a genny is the big gaping hole in my preparations. It's on the list, but we've got our third kid on the way which sinks its priority down a bit.


Hunt on craigslist. Search daily and sont settle for junk. You will find a sweet generator for short money soon enough.
blah
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Posted: 9/6/2012 12:50:04 PM
Originally Posted By PA22-400:

Natural gas pipelines are now being pumped by electric driven pumps.

Back on the day that you remember the gas pipelines were pumped by natural gas fired engine driven pumps. That old system would keep the gas flowing as long as the wells produced and the lines were not broken.

Now days the loss of a electric substation in Pampa TX may take out gas service in your VA subdivision.

The gas fired generator is a fine item to have but it will not be as secure as you think because of recent changes in the pipeline system.


Good info.

"I ain't gonna worry wrinkles in my brow, cuz nothin's never gonna be alright nohow. No matter how I struggle and strive, I'll never get out of this world alive."
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Posted: 9/6/2012 1:03:58 PM
I've been told by those in the pipeline business that while electric compressors are being introdiced into the pipeline system to comply with carbon emissions regs, there are still plenty of gas powered compressors in the system and the system is still very robust.
PA22-400
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Posted: 9/6/2012 1:19:47 PM

Originally Posted By Robby9:
I've been told by those in the pipeline business that while electric compressors are being introdiced into the pipeline system to comply with carbon emissions regs, there are still plenty of gas powered compressors in the system and the system is still very robust.

The OP took care of business by using his backup to his backup.

Sooo.... Let us say you have a whole house natural gas generator hard wired to the home with auto on etc. Sweet set up.
Now.... Say you lose the trifecta. A squirrel takes out your grid while committing squirrel zapicide. In a depressed fit over the first squirrel, a second squirrel commits zapicide and takes out the power to pump your natural gas. Third you have been prescribed to surf arfcom to keep your spirits up and the battery on your laptop just failed.

Pleas tell me you have a second backup
Asking for opinions on the internet and then getting upset for getting them is like stirring up a hornets' nest and then getting pissed because you got stung.
Halffast: post 1725
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Posted: 9/6/2012 4:40:58 PM
crock pot is a modest electrical draw, I think 60 watts on Lo, and maybe 100 watts high.
even a small group 24 marine battery should run a crock pot for 8 hours.
( IF the battery is charged )
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Posted: 9/6/2012 5:59:04 PM
Here ya go.

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Posted: 9/6/2012 6:04:44 PM
Originally Posted By MyName1sMud:
Originally Posted By PA22-400:

Natural gas pipelines are now being pumped by electric driven pumps.

Back on the day that you remember the gas pipelines were pumped by natural gas fired engine driven pumps. That old system would keep the gas flowing as long as the wells produced and the lines were not broken.

Now days the loss of a electric substation in Pampa TX may take out gas service in your VA subdivision.

The gas fired generator is a fine item to have but it will not be as secure as you think because of recent changes in the pipeline system.


Good info.



Actually in a long term SHTF just about any jenny will be worthless due to fuel of any kind will not be available for a long extended event, you can only keep so much fuel on hand, store only so much propane and natural may be cut off. I only have my Natural gas fired unit as a source for short time events like weather or just a regular power outage.

MOLON LABE
BTM757
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Posted: 9/6/2012 6:14:39 PM
Originally Posted By PA22-400:

Originally Posted By BTM757:
When I finally buy a house one of the first things that gonna happen is a natural gas fed generator that is enough to run the entire house is being installed. Rarely have we ever had a natural gas interruption and I can't remember a storm that natural gas lines were lost in my area. I know it happens though but thats why you have a backup for your backup.

Natural gas pipelines are now being pumped by electric driven pumps.

Back on the day that you remember the gas pipelines were pumped by natural gas fired engine driven pumps. That old system would keep the gas flowing as long as the wells produced and the lines were not broken.

Now days the loss of a electric substation in Pampa TX may take out gas service in your VA subdivision.

The gas fired generator is a fine item to have but it will not be as secure as you think because of recent changes in the pipeline system.


Good info. Never gave that much thought. I guess I would get one that ran on Natural Gas/Propane with a secondary fuel input and then have a propane tank installed so if gas service were to be interrupted then I have a backup for the backup.
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Posted: 9/6/2012 6:18:28 PM
Originally Posted By SLYHUNTR:...Actually in a long term SHTF just about any jenny will be worthless due to fuel of any kind will not be available for a long extended event...



Unless you know how to make pure alcohol and are proficient at re-jeting carburators...

Then they can run for a long long time.
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Posted: 9/6/2012 8:11:39 PM
[Last Edit: 9/6/2012 8:11:59 PM by FNFalGuy]
Best place to research and purchase generators, period!

Generator Web Site
JAD762
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Posted: 9/6/2012 9:10:22 PM
Originally Posted By Badlatitude:
Originally Posted By JAD762:
Originally Posted By Rudison:
Never good to try and buy batteries when you need them...I tried to get Ds during the last storm for a customer who is home bound.
Her daughter came in from NYC with 6 that she bought at the PATH train station she paid more than 3x the Costco price.

I'm currently staring at my new Genny...I really need to get it out of the carton and oiled up...




Yeah, a genny is the big gaping hole in my preparations. It's on the list, but we've got our third kid on the way which sinks its priority down a bit.


Hunt on craigslist. Search daily and sont settle for junk. You will find a sweet generator for short money soon enough.


I pop in on craigslist now and then. Most used gennys around here have either been run to death by contractors or are a year old and have a retail price on them.

And I'll be honest, I really don't know what I want. Some days I just want a small genny to keep the freezer frozen, the fridge cold, and maybe run one or two comfort items (not concurrently). Other days I want a 8500 w that I can wire into the house and keep it humming along fairly well.
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Posted: 9/7/2012 3:23:33 AM
This is the exact type of scenario that inspired me to purchase this.

They still have a few at my local Costco for a mere $129.
FrankSymptoms
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Posted: 9/7/2012 5:30:26 AM
Originally Posted By PA22-400:

Originally Posted By BTM757:
When I finally buy a house one of the first things that gonna happen is a natural gas fed generator that is enough to run the entire house is being installed. Rarely have we ever had a natural gas interruption and I can't remember a storm that natural gas lines were lost in my area. I know it happens though but thats why you have a backup for your backup.

Natural gas pipelines are now being pumped by electric driven pumps.

Back on the day that you remember the gas pipelines were pumped by natural gas fired engine driven pumps. That old system would keep the gas flowing as long as the wells produced and the lines were not broken.

Now days the loss of a electric substation in Pampa TX may take out gas service in your VA subdivision.

The gas fired generator is a fine item to have but it will not be as secure as you think because of recent changes in the pipeline system.




We get our NG from Texas. Last cold snap we had (2-3 years ago), TX failed for some reason... and ABQ residents froze. We had many thousands of dollars of water damage to our buildings due to pipes freezing, then thawing.

Shit happens, Defecation occurs, folks.
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Posted: 9/7/2012 5:54:35 AM
Originally Posted By JAD762:
Originally Posted By Badlatitude:
Originally Posted By JAD762:
Originally Posted By Rudison:
Never good to try and buy batteries when you need them...I tried to get Ds during the last storm for a customer who is home bound.
Her daughter came in from NYC with 6 that she bought at the PATH train station she paid more than 3x the Costco price.

I'm currently staring at my new Genny...I really need to get it out of the carton and oiled up...




Yeah, a genny is the big gaping hole in my preparations. It's on the list, but we've got our third kid on the way which sinks its priority down a bit.


Hunt on craigslist. Search daily and sont settle for junk. You will find a sweet generator for short money soon enough.


I pop in on craigslist now and then. Most used gennys around here have either been run to death by contractors or are a year old and have a retail price on them.

And I'll be honest, I really don't know what I want. Some days I just want a small genny to keep the freezer frozen, the fridge cold, and maybe run one or two comfort items (not concurrently). Other days I want a 8500 w that I can wire into the house and keep it humming along fairly well.


You can always buy a small one to get by with for now, while you decide if you really want a whole-house system. A little electricity can go a long way during an outage. When you're living through it, you might be surprised by how much difference there is between "need" and "want". Being able to run a well pump or a freezer for just a few minutes each day can make a huge difference, and small one can act as a backup for the bigger one should you eventually go that route.

But don't just buy a genny and stick it in the garage until you need it. Aside from regular maintenance runs, get your cord strategy, generator placement, etc. worked out in advance. 3:00 am in the middle of a blizzard is not the ideal to find out that your extension cords aren't beefy enough to handle the load, you can't get to the freezer plug without completely unloading and moving the freezer, or the genny is going to get buried by wind-driven snow in the spot you'd planned on putting it.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
AFCarbon15
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Posted: 9/7/2012 11:20:46 AM
Originally Posted By midmo:
Originally Posted By JAD762:
Originally Posted By Badlatitude:
Originally Posted By JAD762:
Originally Posted By Rudison:
Never good to try and buy batteries when you need them...I tried to get Ds during the last storm for a customer who is home bound.
Her daughter came in from NYC with 6 that she bought at the PATH train station she paid more than 3x the Costco price.

I'm currently staring at my new Genny...I really need to get it out of the carton and oiled up...




Yeah, a genny is the big gaping hole in my preparations. It's on the list, but we've got our third kid on the way which sinks its priority down a bit.


Hunt on craigslist. Search daily and sont settle for junk. You will find a sweet generator for short money soon enough.


I pop in on craigslist now and then. Most used gennys around here have either been run to death by contractors or are a year old and have a retail price on them.

And I'll be honest, I really don't know what I want. Some days I just want a small genny to keep the freezer frozen, the fridge cold, and maybe run one or two comfort items (not concurrently). Other days I want a 8500 w that I can wire into the house and keep it humming along fairly well.


You can always buy a small one to get by with for now, while you decide if you really want a whole-house system. A little electricity can go a long way during an outage. When you're living through it, you might be surprised by how much difference there is between "need" and "want". Being able to run a well pump or a freezer for just a few minutes each day can make a huge difference, and small one can act as a backup for the bigger one should you eventually go that route.

But don't just buy a genny and stick it in the garage until you need it. Aside from regular maintenance runs, get your cord strategy, generator placement, etc. worked out in advance. 3:00 am in the middle of a blizzard is not the ideal to find out that your extension cords aren't beefy enough to handle the load, you can't get to the freezer plug without completely unloading and moving the freezer, or the genny is going to get buried by wind-driven snow in the spot you'd planned on putting it.


This !!

I don't think the power has been out at my house more than a total of 4-5 hours over the last 10 years. However, I know what to do and have a plan. I get a lot of practice. The power goes out at our cabin regularly. We've spent on more than one occasion a whole week there with no power. We have an 8.5k generator back fed and it gets tested regularly between uses. We started with a 5.5k, but before long it wouldn't run everything. Not sure where the failure was, but another 3k solved it. Just more proof that you need to test and retest your system. On a nice sunny day, we'd shut off the power and run the generator for an hour or 2 just to make sure the system would work when needed. Also a good time to walk a family member through the process for those times you are not available or busy with other issues. Make a checklist and practice more than once. You'll not only be sure you can use it when needed, but you'll build a better system each time.

Be prepared !



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Posted: 9/7/2012 4:06:47 PM
Originally Posted By wp6529:
An LP or charcoal grill or LP oven in a camper/RV would do nicely to complete the meatloaf. A generator would work as well since an oven is only 2,500W or so usually and intermittent at that.


While everyone's oven may be a little different, I just measured mine since I knew your numbers are quite a bit off for the average household electric stove. I used a household stove since that is what the op was using (and I do not have ay other type).

A large surface burner on our stove draws 9.2 Amps at 240Volts for a draw of 2208 Watts.

However, The oven draws 24.8 Amps at 240 Volts for a draw of 5952 Watts.

While the draw is intermittent, and the average draw may be quite a bit lower, it is still safe to say that the average portable generator will not have the ability to run a household stove - assuming the generator has the ability to generate voltage at 240 volts in the first place.
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