Originally Posted By RR_Broccoli:


Surprised it took this long.

Originally Posted By JCHammer:
This reminds me of my brainwashed Aunt. Everytime I would see her she would ask me: "why do you have a big gun in your house and not 1 but 3 boxes of ammo".... I would always reply it is called a rifle and I am suppose to have one and know how to use it because i am responsible for my families safety which includes unforseen scenarios. Ironically 3 years later tornados swept through their neighborhood bringing down houses and power poles and trees and electric lines across the streets in multiple neighborhoods including the one she lived in. She was astonished on how fast the looters, strangers she had never seen came to her and other houses kicking down doors taking food and tv's and etc..... I asked her what did you do? she replied, I hid in the basement of my own house and hoped they did not come to my house. She said it was the longest four days of her life. she could here fighting and crying and screaming. She is now a proud owner of a 12gauge shotgun and a 38 special..... The world and media teaches people it cannot happen to you. They trust the news, they trust the media but do not trust you. She can hear me now.

Originally Posted By Chrazy-Chris:
Hey guys,

I'm a bit taken back by the number of people on here referring to their rifles as "SHTF" setups. I fully understand and support the use of firearms for self defense, but what is SHTF? Can anyone give an example of a "SHTF" scenario in our modern day and in our blessed country where the use of a high powered rifle with a range of hundreds of yards would be warranted?

If you are a civilian faced with a situation which justifies your use of deadly force to defend yourself, it is safe to say the bad guy is pretty close to you. If he is out of the range of handguns and enters "rifle range", then you would have a hard time justifying why you didn't just run to safety.

Let me start- As I type this I can envision a scenario where a crazy is shooting up the neighborhood, so you run and grab your AR to take him out from a range. I also think of the fallout of Hurricane Katrina where looting went beyond wild and several people were shot. Even then, a man walking around with an assault rifle is more likely to endanger himself by presenting himself as a threat to law enforcement.

What can you guys come up with? Help me understand. Have you ever thought of the overpenetration of the 22 caliber bullet propelled at 3000fps through your walls, your neighbor's walls, etc? Honestly, every time I see "SHTF" on this forum my first thought is that the member is using it as an excuse to spend oogles of money on stuff you can "depend your life one." Are U.S. civilians really depending their life on their ARs? We are lucky enough to live in a country where our civilians can lay their heads down at night and go about daily business without wondering if they will survive to see the next day. Much of the world's population is not afforded this luxury.

Let the S H T F....

Originally Posted By Chrazy-Chris:
Hey all, OP here-

Thanks for all the responses- even the less than friendly ones. When I initially read SHTF I was thinking more along the lines of smaller scale self-defense situations. Now I understand that SHTF can vary between mass-scale rioting, zombie apocalypse, WWIII, etc.

There have been several assumptions made about me and my "liberal" view. Here are a few facts that you may or may not care about that may surprise you:
-I am not a troll. I am not a liberal blogger trying to make a gun nut make a ridiculous quote. I have been wandering these forums for months as I build my first AR. I never signed up due to the email requirement because I didn't want to use my official email (but I gave in because I really like this forum).
-I am active duty military currently serving in Afghanistan. I didn't get the deployment I volunteered for so instead of spending my tour outside the wire where the action is, I'm stuck at a desk. I've spent my down-time ordering parts here and there to put together a "clone" of my issued M4 to train with on my own time for my next deployment, hopefully a real one. (Now that I'll have it, it probably would be my go-to weapon in the case of SHTF, but I'm not calling it that).
-I HAVE read One Second After and seen "Red Dawn."
-CO is my current duty station, not where I was born and raised- dear old NE. Go Big Red! My last station was in CA, so I know what liberal means and trust me, this is not it.

Now a couple observations:
-There is some saying out there about "perspective being reality." I'm not trying to brag or claim that I'm a hardened vet or anything like that, but when you've spent time in a real war zone where people are constantly trying to kill the f*ck out of you, it affects your perspective. When I'm stateside, I'm sheltered from these people because of U.S. service members much braver than myself. Perhaps that's why I don't particularly feel like I need to have an M4 ready to rock and/or roll in my home. I do feel uncomfortable in public without my CW, though.
-Before ever even seeing "SHTF" I HAVE considered SHTF scenarios (especially after reading One Second After, good book- you guys would love it) and thought about what I would do. The first thing that came to my mind was opening up the gun safe. I have an assortment of firearms, all which serve a purpose from trapsooting to hunting to daily self defense, but never considered one specifically for SHTF. I always just thought I would grab whatever fit the circumstances. I have an "emergency bag" which includes an extra box of 9mm. Now that I (will) have an AR, I'll probably throw a few loaded mags in there for it, too. Will I keep my M4 loaded with one in the chamber under the bed? No. You guys can have it when the zombies get me (after you drill my safe). Sorry, no Red Ryder in there, though

There are a ton of awesome responses in this thread and some really funny ones, too. I don't have a good internet connection here so I haven't had a chance to watch some of the videos posted, but I definitely look forward to it.

Time for me to get back to work... thanks for the distraction and keep on rockin in the free world.

Originally Posted By Sixtigers:





Sir, you smell of troll.

Your first post addresses the AR15, and begs askance. "Why does a CIVILIAN need such a dangerous, high-powered rifle?" You list many anti-gun talking points. You did realize that this was AR15.com, did you not? That this is a firearms enthusiast website, and this forum dedicated to survival-related topics? To post anything disparaging towards civilian ownership of what is arguably the most common rifle in America is going to engender lots of responses. That is the definition of trolling.

You quoted me as asking "Why does a CIVILIAN need such a dangerous, high-powered rifle?" Sir, quotes are to be used when you are repeating what somebody else said word for word. That is not what I said, so I encourage you to go back and read my OP. Here are some actual quotes I think you were trying to refer to: "Can anyone give an example of a "SHTF" scenario in our modern day and in our blessed country where the use of a high powered rifle with a range of hundreds of yards would be warranted?" "a man walking around with an assault rifle is more likely to endanger himself by presenting himself as a threat to law enforcement." See how that works? Quotes are taken directly from what someone said, not twisted to make me look like an idiot. Next time you quote somebody, do it right.

Then, in your second post, you claim you are building one. Why? To coin a phrase: "Why does a CIVILIAN need such a dangerous, high-powered rifle?"

Once again, if you'd used an ounce of critical reading skills, you'd see in my second post that I'm building an M4 clone as a training tool. FYI, I'm also building an 18" HBAR upper to use for prairie dog hunting, plinking, and possible 3-gun.... mostly for just plain fun and because I got hooked on this AR stuff.

You also claim to be military. You claim to be military, and stationed in Afghanistan, and still cling to the notion that you do not understand how SHTF relates to civilians. How is that possible?

You then make a statement describing how wonderfully safe America is, and how her citizens don't need things like M4s to be secure...then without missing a beat, talk about carrying a concealed weapon in order to feel secure.

Your original question seemed to be "What is this SHTF you speak of, and why do I need an M4 to be ready for it?" while proclaiming that you've read One Second After. I answer that you needn't worry about it––you're not going to understand it. It's not something you'll "get".

You say you're serving in a war zone, where people are "constantly trying to kill the fuck out of you", and that such affects your perspective. How, exactly, did this affect your perspective?
Explain to me how being in a war zone where your life is threatened daily has affected your outlook on the human race, your place in it, and how it has caused you to believe that having a loaded weapon under your bed for your immediate defense is a bad thing.

I think I can address all these questions at once. Yes, I "claim" to be military. I don't have shit to prove to you, so I'm just going to say yes, I am military. Perspective is reality. When you've been in a real warzone where people are actually trying to kill you, then you go back to the U.S. where the chances of that happening are much, much, MUCH less, you tend to feel very safe. That's my perspective. It's like if you were a race car driver, out there pedal to the metal around every corner... you'd probably wear your seat belt on the track. Then, you get off the track and are driving the residential streets home.... you'd probably feel pretty safe without your seat belt, and that's because of your perspective. Some here have expressed the perspective that a SHTF scenario could occur at any moment. That is their perspective, and more power to them. This thread has helped me understand and respect that perspective. What's wrong with having a loaded AR under the bed? Well, what if you leave the house and forget to lock it up and a gangbanger breaks in, steals it, then kills with it. What if there are curious children that find it and put a bullet through their best bud's head? What if you or your wife have friends over that get a little too much to drink and do something stupid with it? It's a liability.

You don't sound true. Perhaps it's my old, out-of-touch, slightly cynical outlook on other people, but something about these two posts––which are the only things I have to associate with you––don't ring true for a military man stationed in a combat zone overseas.

As someone else pointed out, I spend all my time on this thread in the AR15-specific portion because I use it to browse through info I may use for my build(s). It was in that section I saw people discussing something along the lines of: "well, that is an ok red dot sight but I wouldn't rely on it for SHTF" and "this is just my SHTF rifle," etc. I only come in here to reply to this thread, which I subscribed to after they moved it.

They smell of troll.

Gentlemen, I apologize. I know this isn't what we do in the Survival Forums. I apologize for my temporary lack of manners when dealing with a new poster in this forum. I know this is not how we do business here.

What I meant to say was "Chris, welcome to the Forum. There's good people here––I hope you find information you can use."

Thank you.