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Posted: 7/26/2012 1:21:01 PM EST
Hello all,
I just wanted to ask a quick question. What is the utility of a PDW type weapon such as a MP5k clone that is restricted to semi auto only? I ask because I just sold a gun because I 1. Did not shoot it much and 2. It did not serve an un-filled role in my current arsenal.

While in the local gun shop to do the transfer I saw a MKE mp5k clone. It had the 3 lug barrel and just looked so COOL. This was my problem. I just sold a gun because I bought it a few years back because I thought it was "cool" and I ended up never shooting it, and kind of got tired of it.

Do pistol PDW firearms that are restricted to semi auto only, have any use in the shtf? I know they can be concealed easier the a full sized alternative with a stock, but I figure that the usefullness ends there. The very lack of a stock Ina semi auto firearms like this severely hampers its utility.

What do you think?

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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 1:36:56 PM EST
Semi auto is all you need.

Pistols are shitty self defense weapons because of the low powered ammo they use. A more cumbersome weapon with shitty pistol ballistics is not really a step up in efficacy.

A small carbine with an intermediate or low powered round like a 7.62x39mm or a 5.56x45mm NATO is worlds better than a pistol cartridge in every way.


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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 1:39:37 PM EST
Chicks dig the pistol caliber carbines. That's why I always keep one around.

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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 1:44:49 PM EST
The HK PDW strikes me as all around near useless.

A pistol has several advantages. it is small, easily portable, light, and therefore can be with you always. On the other hand, it is low powered, of very limited practical range, and is harder to shoot with precision than a shoulder weapon.

A carbine offers the exact opposite. It has decent practical range, has decent power, and is relatively easy to shoot. On the other hand, it is far less portable, is heavier, and can be a pain to have with you.

The PDW offers the worst of all possible worlds. Think of it as a very heavy, very cumbersome pistol, with all the the range, accuracy, and power limits, and none of the advantages. In all seriousness, I would much rather a decent handgun (glock, 1911, Beretta M9, police trade model 66) OR a decent carbine (M4, Ruger Mini, even a Ruger 10/22). The PDW is about the last firearm I would want... I think its a compromise that incorporates all the worst possible traits of both a pistol and a carbine.

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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 2:29:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By frozenny:
The HK PDW strikes me as all around near useless.


It holds 30 - double what most pistols do.

The "real" ones will drop all 30 in one easy sweep of the wrist, or in several controlled bursts, and are very intimidating for that reason.

A semi PDW clone is a terrible defense weapon, though.
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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 2:36:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By Circuits:
Originally Posted By frozenny:
The HK PDW strikes me as all around near useless.


It holds 30 - double what most pistols do.

The "real" ones will drop all 30 in one easy sweep of the wrist, or in several controlled bursts, and are very intimidating for that reason.

A semi PDW clone is a terrible defense weapon, though.


That would be the only advantage it might have. I like MP-5's and the like just as much as the next gun nut, but only for the cool factor. Definitely would not be a choice for a SHTF weapon though.
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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 3:06:11 PM EST
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That would be the only advantage it might have. I like MP-5's and the like just as much as the next gun nut, but only for the cool factor. Definitely would not be a choice for a SHTF weapon though.


Yeah, it's this cool factor that is getting to me. I just sold an impracticle gun to raise funds to buy NV. The clerk pulled out their personal MKE while I was doing the transfer and all thoughts of NV blew out of my head. I know I should stay the course. Thank you for helping clear my head.

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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 3:11:11 PM EST
While there is something to be said for a pistol/rifle combo that uses the same ammo, I went with the AKS-74U for a PDW. Not much difference in size when compared to a lot of sub guns, but a lot more capable...

If you want compact fire power go for an sbr AKSU or AR-15.

If I HAD to use a pistol caliber, I'd go with a carbine that uses the same mags as my side arm. In my case that would mean an AR built on a Lonewolf lower that can use Glock mags, or a KelTec Sub2000... There are other options for non-Glock folks, such as the cx4storm from Beretta, etc.

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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 4:14:53 PM EST
A 7.62x39 SBR is tits in my book.

9mm SBR's are cool range toys though and suppress well.

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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 5:54:30 PM EST
The only arguement I can make for a PDW like the MP5K is magazine capacity. It doesn't really lend itself well to a good sight picture, unless you SBR it with a stock.

And that arguement can be nullified with a Glock 19 and 33-round magazines if you're looking for something concealable with optional large capacity capability.

The only way I'd ever consider one is if it had some sort of down-range aiming system, like a laser.
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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 6:58:01 PM EST
i think a sbr , mp5k, would be a awesome home self defense weapon....
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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 7:38:36 PM EST
Easier to shoot that type of weapon accurately compared to a pistol. I have experience with MP5's. I would feel more than comfortable with it's "shitty pistol ballistics".

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Link Posted: 7/26/2012 9:20:01 PM EST
I would much rather a decent handgun (glock, 1911, Beretta M9, police trade model 66) OR a decent carbine

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Link Posted: 7/27/2012 3:24:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
Easier to shoot that type of weapon accurately compared to a pistol. I have experience with MP5's. I would feel more than comfortable with it's "shitty pistol ballistics".


Yes, but only if you have one with a stock which would need to be registered as an SBR. And you still get shitty pistol round ballistics.
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Link Posted: 7/27/2012 4:27:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By buck19delta:
i think a sbr , mp5k, would be a awesome home self defense weapon....


Until you have to shoot it one handed, not so accurate then. A pistol with a good light would be more effective. A belt fed LMG would be WAAAAYY cooler.

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Link Posted: 7/27/2012 4:46:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Originally Posted By buck19delta:
i think a sbr , mp5k, would be a awesome home self defense weapon....


Until you have to shoot it one handed, not so accurate then. A pistol with a good light would be more effective. A belt fed LMG would be WAAAAYY cooler.



Meh, piece of cake. I've emptied 30 round mags full auto with an mp5 at close range with one hand. That's the advantage of 9mm. Of course, without the full auto most of the advantages of the mp5 platform disappear. For a pistol caliber carbine I like .45.

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Link Posted: 7/27/2012 5:19:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Circuits:
Originally Posted By frozenny:
The HK PDW strikes me as all around near useless.


It holds 30 - double what most pistols do.

The "real" ones will drop all 30 in one easy sweep of the wrist, or in several controlled bursts, and are very intimidating for that reason.



How about a 5.56/7.39 in very similar size?

Intimidating meets effective.....thus the death of 9mm sub guns.
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Link Posted: 7/27/2012 10:20:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By M4:

Originally Posted By Circuits:
Originally Posted By frozenny:
The HK PDW strikes me as all around near useless.


It holds 30 - double what most pistols do.

The "real" ones will drop all 30 in one easy sweep of the wrist, or in several controlled bursts, and are very intimidating for that reason.



How about a 5.56/7.39 in very similar size?

Intimidating meets effective.....thus the death of 9mm sub guns.


Yep. It really shouldn't be much of a question anymore. Why go pistol caliber when you can have rifle ballistics in essentially the same package?
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Link Posted: 7/27/2012 11:05:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2012 11:10:09 AM EST by 762bodydropper]
A guy I work with has mak 10 or something or other, And said something about having a gun for shtf. I explained that because its not accurate, small or light, All its good for is to throw under the truck seat in case you got in some real shit and needed to be able to drive and spray out 30 rounds to get away, and or hold it by the magazine and use it as a melee weapon.

An MP5 serves even less of a purpose in my opinion, its larger and more front heavy. Unless your doing cia stuff with full auto. Other than a cool factor gun, which it ranks very high for cool looks and options.


ETA: An A.K. pistola with a short barrel would be a much better option. Especially for S.H.T.F

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Link Posted: 7/27/2012 4:03:28 PM EST
I thought there would be pictures. So disappointed.

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Link Posted: 7/27/2012 6:06:03 PM EST
I feel VERY confident w my MP5K PDW as a home defense firearm.
I do get tickled at those who say it is "only" a pistol caliber.

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Link Posted: 7/27/2012 6:13:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2012 6:14:42 PM EST by BlkTracker]
We have a couple at my Dept, it's a formidable weapon/platform when used within it's intended means.


Last I checked those "crappy pistol calibers" like the 9mm in a mp5 had more penetration through walls in a house then my AR with duty load.

Hence the reason why my Dept moved towards SBR's in 5.56mm over the MP5, simply put, over penetration = liability.


I would not personally pick this platform for SHTF or any other reason for myself as the ergonomics just don't work for me.

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Link Posted: 7/27/2012 10:39:17 PM EST
didnt the fbi, have a mess of 10mm caliber mp5 weapons years ago? 10mm mp5....
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Link Posted: 7/27/2012 11:27:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By buck19delta:
didnt the fbi, have a mess of 10mm caliber mp5 weapons years ago? 10mm mp5....

They still do.

In what way will this augment my ability to "render inoperative armed opponents" and break things...? (Gotta stay PC for work... don'tchya'know....)
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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 3:10:01 AM EST
I've never thought of it as a SHTF gun, but I love my MP5...





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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 4:57:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By 9mmCarbine:
I've never thought of it as a SHTF gun, but I love my MP5...


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/JohnInFL/Heat/DSC_0410.jpg



You seem familiar. Nice toys, in FL, tile floor table. Do you have an AUG?
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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 9:47:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 9:48:37 AM EST by Taft]
The HK series of 9mm's, the venerable Thompson Sub, Colt 9mm SMG's, and all the like, work great for the roles they were intended.

They worked BECAUSE they were FULL AUTO. A quick CQB burst and off they go to the next target, so-to-speak.

Semi auto versions, not so much.

Imho
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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 10:14:53 AM EST
Semi auto SMG's are sexy but near useless in my opinion. As others have stated...pistol caliber rounds lack when it comes to terminal ballistics. "Real" SMG's make up for it by allowing the user to put bursts of controlable fire onto a target. As a semi I just don't see them doing much. Had both an HK-94 and a Vector UZI...sold both. If you want small size get yourself an AR lower, Form 1 it and then an 8" .300 BLK upper and a 10.5 or 11.5" upper in 5.56.

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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 12:52:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 12:55:09 PM EST by jj01]
um, you'll deal with reality alot more than shtf. they are fun and cheap to shoot. and despite what everyone says, they won't just bounce off looty in a shtf event. few folks you're going to be bumping into are going to be as armed to the teath as an ARFCOMER will be, and they are few and far between. find a couple of like minded individuals within walking distance and you're probably doing dam good.


eta: i'd go 300blk sbr and a can for fun and cool factor., it'll also address the knock'm down issues.

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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 3:36:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:
Originally Posted By 9mmCarbine:
I've never thought of it as a SHTF gun, but I love my MP5...


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/JohnInFL/Heat/DSC_0410.jpg



You seem familiar. Nice toys, in FL, tile floor table. Do you have an AUG?


Nope- wrong guy. There must be a few of us around.

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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 4:27:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 4:27:57 PM EST by DevilDog0402]
In full auto/burst sub-gun configuration, I'd consider it a decent choice for a SHTF weapon, especially with a suppressor. But, as others have already stated, the semi auto pdw version would be a poor choice compared to a carbine or pistol. My personal SHTF choice would be a 10.5" AR (5.56) with a pistol on my hip.


What gun did you get rid of?

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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 5:31:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 5:32:49 PM EST by vintovka]
Most of the semi auto clone MP5's have reported reliability problems.

If you need a semi auto weapon for legal reasons and you need something that small then a super hi cap .45 psitol is much more practical.

Just take whatever your standard sidearm is (glock, 1911, Sig, Beretta) and buy the super sized version. Easier to control, conceal and practically all the major manufacturers now have 20 round magazines.

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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 5:43:06 PM EST
A Glock G34 and 33rnd G18 mag is much more practical and does the same thing.

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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 5:48:37 PM EST
Without a stock, just an oversized pistol. With a stock, 100m hits are too easy. For the few inches in larger size, I'd take a MP5K PDW over a pistol everyday of the week if it doesn't need to be super concealed.
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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 5:53:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By Taft:
The HK series of 9mm's, the venerable Thompson Sub, Colt 9mm SMG's, and all the like, work great for the roles they were intended.

They worked BECAUSE they were FULL AUTO. A quick CQB burst and off they go to the next target, so-to-speak.

Semi auto versions, not so much.

Imho



So I take it a Thompson 1921 could be useful?


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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 6:24:13 PM EST
I have a semi auto clone...loads of fun. its quite a bit more accurate than any of the Glock 19s or the P226 I've owned but that's about it
There, I said it...Don't tell me you weren't thinking the same thing!

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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 6:26:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 6:28:40 PM EST by EXPY37]

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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 8:18:45 PM EST

That's all I have to say on the matter.
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Link Posted: 7/28/2012 8:42:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By ObsoleteMan:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Xksld/tso/29f77212.jpg
That's all I have to say on the matter.


SBR'ed and better yet, with a fun switch, and thats a different story. In SP-89 configuration...it's a big clumsy handgun that's ackward to aim and maneuver.

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Link Posted: 7/29/2012 2:44:52 PM EST
Glock 19 (everyday carry) and MP5 with happy switch is my SHTF combo. It measures a whopping 19" closed, light weight, very quiet with suppressor, 100% reliable and easily fits in a backpack or under a winter jacket if necessary It's not the greatest caliber and combo, but I don't plan on looking for trouble. It's just for defensive purposes only.

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Link Posted: 7/30/2012 5:55:21 AM EST
I really like my berretta cx and 92 combo. shares mags and what not. but if you have the cash for a class 3 pdw why not.

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Link Posted: 8/25/2012 9:28:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2012 9:28:46 PM EST by Curdmugeon45]
Ghey.

Just pick up a C93 pistol, form 1, and throw a folding stock on it.

Still stuck with an HK clone, but at least a more useful HK clone.

ETA: Or an AR Pistol. Same size, but better caliber options.

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