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meddac
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Posted: 3/13/2012 9:53:14 PM
I 'm scouring the net and have yet to find something out there for a DIY project to build a half decent fallout/storm/zombie etc shelter. I got a Kubota tractor with the backhoe/FEL for digging, 20+ acres where I live (I'm bugging in not out) and lots of GA pine. I don't want to have cement mixers coming in etc but want to do this out of site and no freaking gov't permits etc.The less people know the better. In other words the stuff needs to be hauled in via pickup truck/ trailer over time i.e. cement blocks/quickcrete and whatever else and be under the 5K price tag. My pitfall is the roof...3-4 feet of dirt is really going to push the limits if I go NBC/CBRNE proof so maybe just a foot under and if it comes to nukes...I'm praying and pulling my pins LOL. Anyone have any links or personal experience to share?
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Posted: 3/13/2012 10:13:01 PM
[Last Edit: 3/13/2012 10:13:15 PM by Mach]
Tag, I want one and don't have a backhoe
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EXPY37
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Posted: 3/13/2012 10:33:55 PM
Originally Posted By meddac:
I 'm scouring the net and have yet to find something out there for a DIY project to build a half decent fallout/storm/zombie etc shelter. I got a Kubota tractor with the backhoe/FEL for digging, 20+ acres where I live (I'm bugging in not out) and lots of GA pine. I don't want to have cement mixers coming in etc but want to do this out of site and no freaking gov't permits etc.The less people know the better. In other words the stuff needs to be hauled in via pickup truck/ trailer over time i.e. cement blocks/quickcrete and whatever else and be under the 5K price tag. My pitfall is the roof...3-4 feet of dirt is really going to push the limits if I go NBC/CBRNE proof so maybe just a foot under and if it comes to nukes...I'm praying and pulling my pins LOL. Anyone have any links or personal experience to share?



I think a member here, Buck? was building a shelter and had most of it excavated.

There's a lengthy thread about it from last year.


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Posted: 3/13/2012 10:36:23 PM
I would prep a shipping container and bury it. Put drainage around it and you could use that for grey water usage. PVC for vent piping. Culvert with rungs welded in for entrance. etc, etc...plan it out.
MedicOC
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Posted: 3/13/2012 10:42:49 PM
[Last Edit: 3/13/2012 10:44:05 PM by MedicOC]
I've looked at this several times and I keep going back to just using a large steel culvert. They are actually reasonably priced, (comparatively) and are relatively inconspicuous when being hauled. Most companies that manufacture the culvert pipes can weld a cap on both ends for you, all you would need would be to build a suitable door. And you can get them in 6 and 8 foot diameter. Partially fill the bottom with concete to provide level walking.

If you have a little bit of a hillside anywhere on the property, burying it would be a fairly easy proposition.


ETA: The benfit of using a culvert pipe is that it is designed to be buried, and able to hold and withstand heavy weights and pressures.
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WhyTanFox
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Posted: 3/13/2012 10:43:32 PM
Originally Posted By Shadow_Grey:
I would prep a shipping container and bury it. Put drainage around it and you could use that for grey water usage. PVC for vent piping. Culvert with rungs welded in for entrance. etc, etc...plan it out.


I don't know anything about foundations or the kind of loads involved, but bear in mind that shipping containers are not made to have force applied to their sides.
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Posted: 3/13/2012 10:45:20 PM
[Last Edit: 3/13/2012 10:46:05 PM by EXPY37]
Originally Posted By WhyTanFox:
Originally Posted By Shadow_Grey:
I would prep a shipping container and bury it. Put drainage around it and you could use that for grey water usage. PVC for vent piping. Culvert with rungs welded in for entrance. etc, etc...plan it out.


I don't know anything about foundations or the kind of loads involved, but bear in mind that shipping containers are not made to have force applied to their sides.


Or their top surface.

Or the bottom externally...



tamu94
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Posted: 3/13/2012 10:47:17 PM
Shipping containers aren't spec'd for burial.

Hunt Craigslist for some 10 or 8 ft dia steel culvert pipe. Another option is to buy a big concrete septic tank (unused of course). I have seen these modified and sold as storm shelters.
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Posted: 3/13/2012 10:52:48 PM
[Last Edit: 3/13/2012 11:09:56 PM by rusteerooster]
I've been looking for info on this sort of thing for almost a year. I have come to the conclusion that, poured slab floor, 8" filled concrete block (with rebar) and the roof and door I have not a clue, then back fill and cover with dirt.

If there are any structural guys here a little help would be appreciated

BTW: I am thinking a 10' x 14' ID

I am looking to build a storm shelter not necessarly a bunker or fallout shelter.
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GTLandser
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Posted: 3/13/2012 10:58:39 PM


You CANNOT bury an unmodified shipping container.

I do agree with the others who suggest CSCP or an as-new septic tank. There are a couple companies who already use CSCP as storm shelters.

Alternatively, if you don't already have a house on your property, look into ICF's, monolithic domes, or Compressed Stabilized Earth Blocks (CSEB's) which are basically adobe, but no straw, ~10% concrete, and a whole lot of compression. I would argue you should save the money on a shelter, and just design and build your personal dwelling in a smart way...no need to hide it, no need to run through a storm to get to it, probably far less likely to have problems...
WhyTanFox
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Posted: 3/13/2012 11:06:07 PM
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By WhyTanFox:
I don't know anything about foundations or the kind of loads involved, but bear in mind that shipping containers are not made to have force applied to their sides.
Or their top surface.

Or the bottom externally...



Yes, you are correct.

They are only meant to bear loads on their columns (typically their corners but also inset a little bit on 45'/48'/53' containers)

motoguy
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Posted: 3/13/2012 11:08:47 PM

Originally Posted By MedicOC:
I've looked at this several times and I keep going back to just using a large steel culvert. They are actually reasonably priced, (comparatively) and are relatively inconspicuous when being hauled. Most companies that manufacture the culvert pipes can weld a cap on both ends for you, all you would need would be to build a suitable door. And you can get them in 6 and 8 foot diameter. Partially fill the bottom with concete to provide level walking.

I wouldn't fill the floor with concrete. Aside from the expense, why lose all that potential storage space?



http://utahsheltersystems.com/shelters.php
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Posted: 3/13/2012 11:14:25 PM
[Last Edit: 3/13/2012 11:36:44 PM by EXPY37]
Originally Posted By rusteerooster:
I've been looking for info on this sort of thing for almost a year. I have come to the conclusion that, poured slab floor, 8" filled concrete block (with rebar) and the roof and door I have not a clue, then back fill and cover with dirt.

If there are any structural guys here a little help would be appreciated

BTW: I am thinking a 10' x 14' ID

I am looking to build a storm shelter not necessarly a bunker or fallout shelter.



I can't put a stamp on it but 10" thick good psi concrete roof with double mat of #5 rebar on 16 inch center and you can park your truck on it, many of them. Probably even 8" thick but that makes double matting more difficult. The strength comes from the thickness almost exponentially.

Any good concrete contractor that speaks Ingrish will know what to do.

As I've said SO many times, drainage and water proofing is your biggest issue and don't believe ANYTHING anyone tells you w/out running it through here.



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Posted: 3/13/2012 11:25:23 PM
OK, try this one on for size...http://www.americanconcrete.com
but you better be ready to spend some money.

OP originally said he only had 5k to spend...
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Posted: 3/13/2012 11:27:15 PM

Originally Posted By Mach:
Tag, I want one and don't have a backhoe


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Posted: 3/13/2012 11:36:05 PM
[Last Edit: 3/13/2012 11:38:23 PM by EXPY37]
Originally Posted By Mach:
Tag, I want one and don't have a backhoe



Unless you are digging on a hillside and/or have a long ramp down into the excavation, a typical backhoe won't do much good making the hole.

When you consider you need say, 2 feet min above the roof of the shelter, allow one foot for the roof, say 7 1/2 feet for the space below, and one foot for the slab and drainage and another foot or so for good footers, add that up and...

Let's see... You need to dig a hole about 13 feet deep.

That's gonna take abt a 20,000 pound + excavator to do it efficiently considering the roll of the bucket, reach, and other considerations in the excavation.



MattNificent
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Posted: 3/13/2012 11:38:45 PM
bury a school bus or 2..
NoStockBikes
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Posted: 3/13/2012 11:49:52 PM

Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Mach:
Tag, I want one and don't have a backhoe



Unless you are digging on a hillside and/or have a long ramp down into the excavation, a typical backhoe won't do much good making the hole.

When you consider you need say, 2 feet min above the roof of the shelter, allow one foot for the roof, say 7 1/2 feet for the space below, and one foot for the slab and drainage and another foot or so for good footers, add that up and...

Let's see... You need to dig a hole about 13 feet deep.

That's gonna take abt a 20,000 pound + excavator to do it efficiently considering the roll of the bucket, reach, and other considerations in the excavation.




Efficiently is the key word. A person could do it with a front loader alone, just have to start back far enough. Would take long enough and burn enough fuel to make renting something real big an attractive option. Also, consider the significant safety issues working at the bottom of a 13' trench. Without all the pro goodies, you'd pretty much have to dish it out like you were digging a pond, then fill it all back in. The cubic yards involved make my head hurt. Backhoes, dozers, and no nosey neighbors or zoning dept folks curious about the heavy equip they saw driving down that back road.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a hillside/slope based bunker. Drainage would be significantly diminished as an issue, safety and scope of the excavation work would be greatly enhanced, allowing you to do it with smaller equipment at a lower cost in a shorter window of time.
How must I prepare you must ask yourself. Should I jump off the tallest building in the world? Should I lay on the lawn and let it run over me with lawnmowers? Should I go to Africa and let it trample me with raging elephants?
Kibby
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Posted: 3/14/2012 3:30:24 AM
[Last Edit: 3/14/2012 3:31:10 AM by Kibby]
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Mach:
Tag, I want one and don't have a backhoe



Unless you are digging on a hillside and/or have a long ramp down into the excavation, a typical backhoe won't do much good making the hole.

When you consider you need say, 2 feet min above the roof of the shelter, allow one foot for the roof, say 7 1/2 feet for the space below, and one foot for the slab and drainage and another foot or so for good footers, add that up and...

Let's see... You need to dig a hole about 13 feet deep.

That's gonna take abt a 20,000 pound + excavator to do it efficiently considering the roll of the bucket, reach, and other considerations in the excavation.




Efficiently is the key word. A person could do it with a front loader alone, just have to start back far enough. Would take long enough and burn enough fuel to make renting something real big an attractive option. Also, consider the significant safety issues working at the bottom of a 13' trench. Without all the pro goodies, you'd pretty much have to dish it out like you were digging a pond, then fill it all back in. The cubic yards involved make my head hurt. Backhoes, dozers, and no nosey neighbors or zoning dept folks curious about the heavy equip they saw driving down that back road.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a hillside/slope based bunker. Drainage would be significantly diminished as an issue, safety and scope of the excavation work would be greatly enhanced, allowing you to do it with smaller equipment at a lower cost in a shorter window of time.


This is practical thinking. I've long harboured a fantasy about building a bunker, but my land is mostly forested, and any activity with heavy equipment would certainly bring attention. Construction of a bunker of any useable size would just be a monumental feat to keep it clandestine.
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Posted: 3/14/2012 10:11:48 AM
Originally Posted By MedicOC:
I've looked at this several times and I keep going back to just using a large steel culvert. They are actually reasonably priced, (comparatively) and are relatively inconspicuous when being hauled. Most companies that manufacture the culvert pipes can weld a cap on both ends for you, all you would need would be to build a suitable door. And you can get them in 6 and 8 foot diameter. Partially fill the bottom with concete to provide level walking.

If you have a little bit of a hillside anywhere on the property, burying it would be a fairly easy proposition.


ETA: The benfit of using a culvert pipe is that it is designed to be buried, and able to hold and withstand heavy weights and pressures.


THIS.

It's almost too perfect.
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J75player
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Posted: 3/14/2012 10:32:52 AM
these work well too
3/8in steel walls, waterproofed, made to bury.
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Posted: 3/14/2012 10:51:37 AM
There was a show on the Survival podcast about building houses for $200 and up. It mainly went our the premise of using local materials such as logs and earth to build with the main cost being a plastic membrane for the roof. He had an example of a barn built into the side of a hill. Might be worth a look.

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Artillary
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Posted: 3/14/2012 11:06:28 AM
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By MedicOC:
I've looked at this several times and I keep going back to just using a large steel culvert. They are actually reasonably priced, (comparatively) and are relatively inconspicuous when being hauled. Most companies that manufacture the culvert pipes can weld a cap on both ends for you, all you would need would be to build a suitable door. And you can get them in 6 and 8 foot diameter. Partially fill the bottom with concete to provide level walking.

I wouldn't fill the floor with concrete. Aside from the expense, why lose all that potential storage space?

http://utahsheltersystems.com/images/water1.jpg

http://utahsheltersystems.com/shelters.php


I got a quote from a local company on 10' diameter culvert and it was $166/foot. Didn't ask what the cost would be for them to seal the ends.
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Posted: 3/14/2012 11:34:32 AM
Originally Posted By Artillary:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By MedicOC:
I've looked at this several times and I keep going back to just using a large steel culvert. They are actually reasonably priced, (comparatively) and are relatively inconspicuous when being hauled. Most companies that manufacture the culvert pipes can weld a cap on both ends for you, all you would need would be to build a suitable door. And you can get them in 6 and 8 foot diameter. Partially fill the bottom with concete to provide level walking.

I wouldn't fill the floor with concrete. Aside from the expense, why lose all that potential storage space?

http://utahsheltersystems.com/images/water1.jpg

http://utahsheltersystems.com/shelters.php


I got a quote from a local company on 10' diameter culvert and it was $166/foot. Didn't ask what the cost would be for them to seal the ends.


Would have been funny to see the looks on their faces if you would have dead-panned "Ok, I'd like two 6 inch pieces, please."

$6500 for 40' isn't too ridiculous, but is a still a significant investment. I wonder what caps would run?

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Posted: 3/14/2012 12:07:23 PM
Originally Posted By tamu94:
Shipping containers aren't spec'd for burial.

Hunt Craigslist for some 10 or 8 ft dia steel culvert pipe. Another option is to buy a big concrete septic tank (unused of course). I have seen these modified and sold as storm shelters.


This is how I would roll if I were to do something like that.
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Posted: 3/14/2012 12:21:13 PM
[Last Edit: 3/14/2012 12:27:53 PM by MPi-KMS-72]
http://www.ballew.org/homeland/sheltr01.pdf

http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/southrad/falloutshelters.html

There are a lot of FEMA and other cold war era plans out there on the net if you dig around.
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