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TobyLazur
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Posted: 5/8/2011 7:33:41 PM EST
I know that we have the 4 guns of the apocalypse thread, but I was wondering if we could get the most practical firearms for a real world social unrest type SHTF firearms list.

Maybe something like:

A concealable hand gun, with a back up if the primary gets confiscated.
A socially acceptable long gun if someone is breaking down your door,
a weapon to keep in the trunk that is both socially acceptable/wouldn't kill you if they were stolen/taken/etc.


I know that there is a lot of talk on here about the end of days/TEOTWAWKI type situation, but what about a situation that lasts 3 days to a week? Maybe there's a social break down and crime is rampant, but you still have to go to work everyday?

Since you'll more than likely never have to shoot someone at more than 15 feet, what would be the best firearms to have?

Does less than lethal ammunition have a place in your preps? Maybe for breaking up a mob coming up your street?
godrilla47
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Posted: 5/8/2011 7:49:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2011 7:50:25 PM EST by godrilla47]

Originally Posted By TobyLazur:
I know that we have the 4 guns of the apocalypse thread, but I was wondering if we could get the most practical firearms for a real world social unrest type SHTF firearms list.

Maybe something like:

A concealable hand gun, with a back up if the primary gets confiscated.
A socially acceptable long gun if someone is breaking down your door,
a weapon to keep in the trunk that is both socially acceptable/wouldn't kill you if they were stolen/taken/etc.


I know that there is a lot of talk on here about the end of days/TEOTWAWKI type situation, but what about a situation that lasts 3 days to a week? Maybe there's a social break down and crime is rampant, but you still have to go to work everyday?

Since you'll more than likely never have to shoot someone at more than 15 feet, what would be the best firearms to have?

Does less than lethal ammunition have a place in your preps? Maybe for breaking up a mob coming up your street?

G19

Socially acceptable long gun?WTF... If someone is trying to break down my door the last thing I'm worried about is if my long gun of choice is acceptable to the masses... AR/AK/FAL/M1A...

A trunk gun should be the best you can afford to lose again AR/AK/FAL/M1A..

I won't be going to work if I have to worry about my family or my own safety while out.

No more than 15ft? Who says this? BS

If your the dumbass who goes all commando and decides to "break up" a mob instead of hunkering down and staying quiet you'll find out pretty quick when it's 50 on 1 your house is on fire and you are most likely dead that maybe you should have just let them pass...


"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself." -Thomas Jefferson
PA22-400
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Posted: 5/8/2011 8:08:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2011 8:25:37 PM EST by PA22-400]
brb
Originally Posted By TobyLazur:
I know that we have the 4 guns of the apocalypse thread, but I was wondering if we could get the most practical firearms for a real world social unrest type SHTF firearms list.

Maybe something like:

A concealable hand gun, with a back up if the primary gets confiscated.
A socially acceptable long gun if someone is breaking down your door,
a weapon to keep in the trunk that is both socially acceptable/wouldn't kill you if they were stolen/taken/etc.


I know that there is a lot of talk on here about the end of days/TEOTWAWKI type situation, but what about a situation that lasts 3 days to a week? Maybe there's a social break down and crime is rampant, but you still have to go to work everyday?

Since you'll more than likely never have to shoot someone at more than 15 feet, what would be the best firearms to have?

Does less than lethal ammunition have a place in your preps? Maybe for breaking up a mob coming up your street?

ETA
Please carefully read the following

This is a survival forum, so you must understand that there are some answers that you get that have been standard for decades because some famous survivalist wrote it down in a famous survivalist book.

You must have that following weapons to be a respectable survivalist:
1) An AR or AK for each member of the household capable of shooting (individuals over about 6 years of age). A 30-30 will not do.
2) A shotgun to go with each rifle in 1. It does not matter if you have no use for a shotgun.
3) A handgun to go with each rifle in 1
4) Ammo stocked for 1, 2 , and 3.
5) A long range rifle in 308—This really needs to be a bolt gun if you intend to be a tier one survivalist. SR25 or SPR can't count. 30-06, 300mag, 338mag, 270, etc. just will not do, and it doesn't matter that the terrain will not allow a clear 250 yard shot.
6) SKS handout guns. Nope can't count a 30-30 here either. It doesn't matter if you have nobody that you would trust to hand out to.
7) Ammo stocked for 5 and 6.

So now that you know the rules, and your ammo stocks have been measured and found lacking.


No you cannot have a real world gun list because the real world is what you have when the emergency hits you. There are places in the us that I would say that every homeowner should have a Barret semi-auto 50cal, but you may not live there. There are places that you cannot legally use a semi-auto to hunt with, so folks from those places don't see the value of a good semi-auto rifle.

If you want a gun and can afford the gun, then buy it. Then learn to effectively use the gun you have in the real world. Then after you get educated and practiced if you see a different gun would be better for you, get the better gun. By that time you will not be asking us.
Asking for opinions on the internet and then getting upset for getting them is like stirring up a hornets' nest and then getting pissed because you got stung.
Halffast: post 1725
puskrat
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Posted: 5/8/2011 8:55:12 PM EST
Can we get a 'REAL WORLD' SHTF firearms list?

No, I'm sorry, we can't. Thanks for asking though.
"If you have no weapon, sell your clothes and buy one"
---Jesus of Nazareth
Amontgomery
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Posted: 5/8/2011 9:12:38 PM EST
If the gun works use it.

You will probably want a pistol and a rifle. When you are out and about, there are times when you will want to conceal a gun on you, there are other times when you will want something that will reach out to longer distances. Use what you need and have ammunition for.

That's it. There is not special formula. We each have our own picks for what is the best, personally, I like a G17 and an AR in 6.5g. There is nothing I can't do in my area with that combo, and perhaps a 10/22 for smaller game-getting purposes. If I NEED to kill a bird or squirrel, I am not going to be concerned with game laws (shotgun for game-birds, etc).
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Warlord_Doc
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Posted: 5/8/2011 9:13:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
brb
Originally Posted By TobyLazur:
I know that we have the 4 guns of the apocalypse thread, but I was wondering if we could get the most practical firearms for a real world social unrest type SHTF firearms list.

Maybe something like:

A concealable hand gun, with a back up if the primary gets confiscated.
A socially acceptable long gun if someone is breaking down your door,
a weapon to keep in the trunk that is both socially acceptable/wouldn't kill you if they were stolen/taken/etc.


I know that there is a lot of talk on here about the end of days/TEOTWAWKI type situation, but what about a situation that lasts 3 days to a week? Maybe there's a social break down and crime is rampant, but you still have to go to work everyday?

Since you'll more than likely never have to shoot someone at more than 15 feet, what would be the best firearms to have?

Does less than lethal ammunition have a place in your preps? Maybe for breaking up a mob coming up your street?

ETA
Please carefully read the following

This is a survival forum, so you must understand that there are some answers that you get that have been standard for decades because some famous survivalist wrote it down in a famous survivalist book.

You must have that following weapons to be a respectable survivalist:
1) An AR or AK for each member of the household capable of shooting (individuals over about 6 years of age). A 30-30 will not do.
2) A shotgun to go with each rifle in 1. It does not matter if you have no use for a shotgun.
3) A handgun to go with each rifle in 1
4) Ammo stocked for 1, 2 , and 3.
5) A long range rifle in 308—This really needs to be a bolt gun if you intend to be a tier one survivalist. SR25 or SPR can't count. 30-06, 300mag, 338mag, 270, etc. just will not do, and it doesn't matter that the terrain will not allow a clear 250 yard shot.
6) SKS handout guns. Nope can't count a 30-30 here either. It doesn't matter if you have nobody that you would trust to hand out to.
7) Ammo stocked for 5 and 6.

So now that you know the rules, and your ammo stocks have been measured and found lacking.


No you cannot have a real world gun list because the real world is what you have when the emergency hits you. There are places in the us that I would say that every homeowner should have a Barret semi-auto 50cal, but you may not live there. There are places that you cannot legally use a semi-auto to hunt with, so folks from those places don't see the value of a good semi-auto rifle.

If you want a gun and can afford the gun, then buy it. Then learn to effectively use the gun you have in the real world. Then after you get educated and practiced if you see a different gun would be better for you, get the better gun. By that time you will not be asking us.


THIS!
fisterkev
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Posted: 5/8/2011 9:15:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2011 9:17:24 PM EST by fisterkev]
Can we get a 'REAL WORLD' SHTF firearms list?


Sure we can, just list what you've got. That's your list. It's even in the "real world"... Or were you actually wondering about the "fantasy world" gun list?

What you ask has been done to death. Use the search function. If that doesn't work, just know that you must have at least one 5.56mm rifle so you can get the ammo that the military most assuredly won't be using, one AK because you can bury it in lava for 20 years and it will still work, 3 Ruger 10/22s to shoot squirrels with, a Glock in 9mm for every single family member, and at least one shotgun. For whatever you can't kill with 5.56mm, 7.62mm, or 9mm..

On ammo you'll need 50,000 rounds of .22LR for all of the squirrels, 10,000 9mm - because handgun engagements are ammo intensive, of course, and 25 rounds of 5.56mm to train on. Don't worry about the latter, it's plentiful, and you'll be able to get as much of it as you want after the military disbands...

Inebriated
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Posted: 5/8/2011 9:24:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2011 9:27:52 PM EST by Inebriated]
If SHTF, my ideal setup would be as follows...
Sig P220 (.45 ACP) on the hip. Proven defense round, and an amazing gun. No real need to elaborate.
Remington 870 on my back. Can take out any game in North America, as well as any two-legged threat.
Savage Model 11 (.308). It shoots far.
S&W 617 (.22 revolver) somewhere in my setup. Excellent for small game hunting, and who knows.. maybe you need to be quiet. A well-placed sub-sonic will kill a lot of things.

And enough rounds in my bag for each gun to last at least three days.

Now that's my IDEAL setup. My "real world" list would almost certainly be the Sig... MAYBE the 870 if I won't be home for a while. I don't really worry much lol. I feel like I'd have a tough time being "that guy" who's armed to the teeth just because of an ice storm or something.
HUNTER223
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Posted: 5/8/2011 11:19:34 PM EST
IBTL




HTR.
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TheOTHERmaninblack
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Posted: 5/8/2011 11:55:48 PM EST
Socially acceptable long guns? srsly?

Uhm.... Hey, I've got a Hammerli .22 spring gun! Single shot, you can use it indoors, pellets are cheap as hell. Scourge of rabbits and squirrels out to twenty or thirty yards.

Crossman .177 BB pistol. The hippies and socialists will still carp, but they won't take you serious enough to bother you much.

There's yer real world.

If you decide "fuck a buncha holier than thou libtard pukes," and decide to abandon your "socially acceptable" parameter, we can move on to things that are actually useful.

My Real world battery is

A stick. Seriously. A blackthorne cane to be precise.

The above Hammerli

A 10-22.

A .40 caliber service pistol and a backup.

An AR in 6.5g (well, nearly)


You could probably get away with different calibers, I guess. 9mm is still cheap, .45 is better than either. Then there's the revolvers, .357, .44, and .45lc.

5.56, depending on where in AZ you is, may peter out a bit early (cue the "the M262 5.56 is an 800 meter gun, you swine!" crowd) 5.45 certainly will. Likewise 7.62X39.

30-06, 300 winmag, .270 are all decent mid to long range hunting cartridges (along with myriad others) with a bit of skill, and you're far more likely to be dealing death to critters than marauders. The average scumbags you see in a SHTF situation that isn't being filmed by a movie crew will typically veer away at the sight of any long gun being carried in the open at the ready. Bolt, lever, pump, semi, whatever you get, it might be wise to find one with detachable magazines and pick up a few spares.

Shotguns are more intimidating at close range, but a good rifle will probably be more useful, which is why I didn't include shotguns in my list.

That real world enough?
“Out of a hundred men, ten shouldn’t be there and 80 are just targets. Nine are the real fighters, and we are thankful for them because they make the battle. But the one, the one is a warrior and he brings the others back.” -Heraclites
burlysoldier
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Posted: 5/9/2011 2:47:06 AM EST
What about commonality of both platform and calibers? I think all these long lists of various weapons are bit ridiculous. Long gun, sidearm, big ass knife. Having 15 guns in 15 calibers is a pain in the ass enough during regular times, post shtf if you need parts etc I think it would be best to just stick with-

A.R's (carbine length and maybe one longer if you see you have the range for it)
Pistol- Glock or 1911
Knife- a good knife is one thing but whether it comes in a sheath with proper retention and ability for a lightning quick draw is paramount.

Standing around looking like a mall commando is a good way to tell the whole world you have shit worth protecting. Low key and peaceful unless the need arises would be the way I'd go about it. Either way I like reading everyone's responses because ultimately each scenario/terrain is different. A bolt gun could be very useful for instance and the concept of hand out guns is also worth its merit. But again the varying calibers, parts etc make me wary.

TheSurvivalist
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Posted: 5/9/2011 3:07:50 AM EST
Real world SHTF firearms list is whatever you have when the SHTF.

But based on your criteria I would say:

1. G19 with G26 or light weight revolver as back up.
2. 30-30 or 12 gauge for "social acceptable" but if someone is breaking down my door, I'm more worried about protecting my family then "socially acceptable".
3. Trunk gun would be a cheap pump shotgun.
Mannlicher
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Posted: 5/9/2011 3:08:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/9/2011 3:10:25 AM EST by Mannlicher]
if you want to abandon all fantasy, then the best example of a "Real World" SHTF battery is what you have in your possession right now.

I don't understand the concept of a "socially acceptable" weapon................ I DO understand the concept of play time and fantasy time though.
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BKC1869
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Posted: 5/9/2011 5:37:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheSurvivalist:
Real world SHTF firearms list is whatever you have when the SHTF.



This. When it happens it's real world. Therefore whatever you have on hand is a "Real World SHTF Firearms Inventory".
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Posted: 5/9/2011 5:41:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/9/2011 5:44:09 AM EST by jcoffman55]
Old school homestead/farm arsenal.
S&W .38 or .357 4"

.22 call simi auto of some sort

Winchester Model 12

Reming 700 or lever action with scope.

About as common and well rounded as you can get on a budget and probably everyone used to have these. I know both my grandfathers did although mine looks a lot different.
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Remyrw
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Posted: 5/9/2011 5:55:27 AM EST
My real world list is whatever I have when it happens. If things are fucked up enough that I'm concerned with what is socially acceptable in long guns to carry around in public I am really not going to give a damn and neither is anyone else. I'm also not going to be casually going to the mall, ya know?

In the most likely forms of SHTF where it's not just personal and short term, I'm most likely to carry the same thing I always do, with a few more mags. Maybe I keep the AR in the vehicle if I have to go out, and most likely with someone riding shotgun to use it and so one of us always has our hands free while we collect whatever it is we went out for. Most likely SHTF will be a natural disaster, in which case we'd both be carrying concealed and just keeping sharp while we worked or picked up supplies, long guns stay with the person/people guarding the property. After Katrina that's pretty much how we handled it. All the adults carrying pistols tucked away (and oh man was that uncomfortable sometimes while working in that weather). We'd have had a shotgun handy but it got lent to a family member who had to go deal with a bunch of criminals and was told the state couldn't provide suitable equipment to everyone, so bring your own if you can. We never had a real problem, but we were in Slidell, which is not a dump like NO.
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biere
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Posted: 5/9/2011 6:12:19 AM EST
ccw handgun.
surplus bolt action or hunting bolt action.
22lr handgun
22lr rifle

Yeah an ak or other military semi auto is nice but if someone is looking for a rifle that can handle abuse and not care the surplus bolt actions are on my list.

A trunk gun will see some abuse just from being ignored a lot. Kind of like how a lot of ccw pieces see a lot of pocket lint or other stuff from being carried around in all sorts of weather.

If worried about how things look a stock sks with the 10 rd setup would work for many folks because it has the wood stock but no magazine that resembles an ak setup.

I used a shotgun recently because it looks like a shotgun and got the job done. It did not make the neighbors wonder about things much. In talking about things afterwards I mentioned I had some stuff that could do the job better probably and now they won't be surprised if I use a fal the next time.

The above firearms won't cost a lot of money and you can take em out and use them and get to know them.




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TobyLazur
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Posted: 5/9/2011 6:16:10 AM EST
So let me rephrase some of these questions....

I'm hoping for some discussion on some recommendations that doesn't involve a TEOTKAWKI scenario. More like the Argentina economic collapse. Crime is rampant, but life still goes one. You still have to go to work everyday, you still have to answer to the LE after any shoot, etc.

Is the first thing that you grab a $2k AR? The one that in the courtroom is a "deadly highly powered machine gun?"

Sure you can hit a man sized target out to 300-500 yards, but can you justify shooting someone that far out? Can you justify shooting someone 30 yards out?


I don't mean to get anyone's panties in a twist, I love to think about the zombie invasions just as much as the next SF member, but I'm looking to plan for the most reasonable threat first, then the next, then the next, etc. etc.

First is protecting my family, next is making sure we can make it through a power outage that lasts a few days, next is....I don't know. The last, is probably having to supply arms to my neighbors.

BlahBlah
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Posted: 5/9/2011 6:22:30 AM EST
I've actually though about and discussed this quite a bit. I've formed my own opinions, and have tailored my personal arsenal around those opinions. To cover all bases, I've decided that I would need:

Reliable pistol in a common caliber.
This could be semi-auto or wheelie. I decided on a 9mm semi, but a .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .45ACP or even a .40S&W would probably work. It's important to have lots of mags and some spare parts if you decide to go the semi-auto route. Multiple, identical back-up pistols would be ideal.

Shotgun in common guage.
12ga or 20ga pump-gun would fit the bill for close quarters defense and hunting should you need to feed yourself. Ammo is everywhere, and you can change barrels and chokes as situations demand.

Handy (fighting) carbine in common caliber.
I picked the AR15 for my platform because .223/5.56 is probably the most common centerfire cartridge in use today, parts and magazines are easy to come by and the platform can be tailored to specific shooters (women, smaller kids, etc). But, hey... If you have a 30-30 lever-gun, that'll work too.

Rimfire rifle or pistol.
The choice of rifle or pistol depends on a lot of things, but a .22LR deserves a place in any SHTF discussion. Even more than shotgun shells, .22LR ammo is EVERYWHERE. Ammo is also small/light enough to allow even a small woman or child to carry a LOT of ammo. It may not be ideal for defensive use, but any gun is better than throwing rocks, and you can use it to harvest small game animals should you need to. Any .22LR platform really shines when surpressed, but that's another discussion.

One other gun that I think deserves a mention would be an accurate, scoped, bolt-action rifle in a common, larger caliber (.308, .30-06, etc). This would fit the role of "big game" hunting, as well as reaching out beyond the effective range of the fighting carbine. I would put this in the top 5 list for SHTF firearms, but the OP only asked for 4. Quite frankly, you'd be hard pressed to find a scenario where one of the top 4 wouldn't have you covered, but adding the 5th option really would cover all bases.

"There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?" - Yuri Orlov
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Posted: 5/9/2011 6:43:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mannlicher:
if you want to abandon all fantasy, then the best example of a "Real World" SHTF battery is what you have in your possession right now.

I don't understand the concept of a "socially acceptable" weapon................ I DO understand the concept of play time and fantasy time though.


Out of what by now must be hundreds of threads on this subject, this is the first genuinely rational response I have read.

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Posted: 5/9/2011 6:53:07 AM EST
Get one of each of these five types of guns:

Pistol, with 9mm being the smallest acceptable cartridge. I prefer semis with extra mags, but y'all can debate the virtue of revolvers if you like.

.22LR rife.

Larger caliber bolt action, with optics. Choose one from the .308, 30-30, 30-06 range.

Semiauto rifle with extra mags. SKS, AK, AR, pick one.

Shotgun

If you find yourself in a situation in which none of the above will work, well, sorry, you're toast.
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Posted: 5/9/2011 7:10:07 AM EST
Real world is what you have and what you are comfortable that you can use and keep using. Mine is really rather simple... Glock 19 & AR-15 Carbine. The reason is because I can replace any part of either of these guns myself with very minor tool requirement AND spare parts were easy to put away NOW, before SHTF so now I know they can be maintained or repaired long into any possible crisis.

For a "Trunk Gun", which is honestly not something I do keep in the trunk outside of specific periods of concern - IE holidays (Christmas Time) I always keep one in teh trunk when I am shopping. My trunk gun is a very modest SAR-1 (7.62x39 AK) with a side folding stock. I have less then $350 into the gun and the mags and it is quite adequate as a step up from the Glock 19 that is always on me.
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Posted: 5/9/2011 7:14:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By TobyLazur:
So let me rephrase some of these questions....

I'm hoping for some discussion on some recommendations that doesn't involve a TEOTKAWKI scenario. More like the Argentina economic collapse. Crime is rampant, but life still goes one. You still have to go to work everyday, you still have to answer to the LE after any shoot, etc.

Is the first thing that you grab a $2k AR? The one that in the courtroom is a "deadly highly powered machine gun?"

Sure you can hit a man sized target out to 300-500 yards, but can you justify shooting someone that far out? Can you justify shooting someone 30 yards out?


I don't mean to get anyone's panties in a twist, I love to think about the zombie invasions just as much as the next SF member, but I'm looking to plan for the most reasonable threat first, then the next, then the next, etc. etc.

First is protecting my family, next is making sure we can make it through a power outage that lasts a few days, next is....I don't know. The last, is probably having to supply arms to my neighbors.



Don't vote for a DA that takes cheap shots at legal gun owners.

Are you in fear for your life? If you are in fear for your life, then I'm sure that you can articulate that fear for your life to the law. You really need to read many of the articles by Massad Ayoob: Pay careful attention to what the good guy said to the first responders and how things went in court.


Kinda don't matter what is in your arsenal now––does it?
Asking for opinions on the internet and then getting upset for getting them is like stirring up a hornets' nest and then getting pissed because you got stung.
Halffast: post 1725
protus
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Posted: 5/9/2011 7:42:39 AM EST
Ok....well
lets see....arg. collapse...Hmmmm.. insert self into detriot.......what would you want there?
Break into your home at 3am- what would YOU grab?
Zombies- again whats in arms reach
red dawn- what do you have now , that will get you what you want later...


Each gear and gun queer out there has a list of what the perfect shtf weapon should be. Just like a Bug out Bag list.
All guns shoot bullets, just like all bobs need water....after that, it is up to the end user to buy what they can, then train with it.
I can tell you a g17 is the best,,,and that kifaru is the bee's knee's....but you wont know for sure till a few k rounds down range and a few doz miles under the ruck....
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Posted: 5/9/2011 8:10:30 AM EST
I'm very skeptical of having too specialized of a role for a firearm (ie Mel Tappen). For example, I can't understand needing working or defensive sidearms, or multiple hunting shotguns (except maybe for turkey). It would seem that it would be ideal if a hunting rifle would also make a good defensive rifle (be that deer hunting with an HK, or hunting with a lever action. Out on the great plains, a long action, scoped bolt action might make a good defensive rifle, I wouldn't want one here though.

My list for someone in rural areas:

Full or mid sized handgun (.38+) per mature person
Conceilable handgun
22 and or high power air rifle
Semiauto rifle or defensive shotgun per mature person depending on terrain
Any guns for hunting not included above. (in my case I would want a .243 minimum since the previous choice is an 5.56 AR, I'd want a shotgun for waterfowl and turkey)
Something light and effective for carrying while working outside (might be above rifle)

My number one turkey gun is a stephens sawed off double barrell that I carried in a piece of PVC pipe on our tractor (bolted to the ROPS, like a minature conduit carrier.) It's also my #2 deer gun. I carried it for years with 2 rounds of buck shot, 2 of turkey shot, and 2 #7.5s. Got a few rabbits, birds and a beaver with it also.


Yes, you can defend your self with a 30.30. But there are better choices.
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Posted: 5/9/2011 9:04:05 AM EST
We all have our own choices in firearms, they very from bolt action/semi-auto ...3 round burst...even full auto for rifles.
For the pistols you have single/double action...even full auto.
As far as what caliber I want or use...thats on me and my area of operation...if your in the southern US and have a .22 cal for a SHTF thats fine, but if your up north in the mountains with bears and larger game...such as elk, moose, and buffalo...you'll want a larger caliber to take down larger game...we can argue about what is the perfect weapon to have ....but lets face it folks, we all have different thoughts on what will be happening in a true SHTF with martial law and unrest throughout the country.
Will a .22 rifle kill a person...yes
Will a ar/ak kill a squirel...yes
will both help to protect you if your being attacked....yes
My point is that you have what you have, you use what you use...if you need to upgrade your weapons...do it....you know where you will be and think you know what your prepping for...than prep for it...every area and every persons ability is different....prep for you and yours.
"In days of old when times were bold, no toilets were invented, you left your load upon the road, and walked away contented"
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