Lever Action as a survival gun? - Page 1

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Posted: 1/31/2011 3:35:01 AM EDT

For your average guy who is looking at long term survival and isn't counting on extended mass combat with anyone, what is the viability of a good 30-30 lever action such as the Marlin or Winchester variety as a primary survival rifle? (Of note, this is simply a question as food for thought. I already have my stockpile

)

Posted: 1/31/2011 3:45:26 AM EDT

[#1]

Daniel Webster is turning in his grave.

Posted: 1/31/2011 3:48:39 AM EDT

[#2]

Yeah, forgive the misspelling. My spell-check didn't catch it, and my stupid factor kicked in.

Nor is my computer letting me fix it.

Posted: 1/31/2011 3:59:21 AM EDT

[#3]

Lever Actions for SHTF (my ignorant opinion)

Pros:
Simpler mechanism = more reliable than semi autos (of the same price range)
Good knock down power
Accurate with quick follow up shots (compared to a bolt action)
They just look cool
reasonable size and weight for carrying

Cons:
limited capacity (# of rounds)
Expensive / harder-to-find ammo
replacement parts more difficult to find
Not well suited to sniper type shots - +200 yards

Posted: 1/31/2011 4:30:23 AM EDT

[#4]

I would have no problem with my 94 as my survival weapon. I killed 3 deer running with it, several wild hogs. It's never let me down in over 20 years. The hollow points make a nasty exit wound as well.

Posted: 1/31/2011 5:04:22 AM EDT

[#5]

Welcome to the SF

The guys here that know their firearms don't hate the 30-30s. Some folks just do not like leaver guns.

In the great ammo shortage of a few months back, 30-30 was stacked on the shelf next to the blank spaces for 308 and 223. 30-30 is available at the store in some of the small towns I've been in. If you want 30-30 in shipping container quantities then you will need to call up Federal, Remington, or Winchester.

This is a survival forum, so you must understand that there are some answers
that you get that have been standard for decades because some famous
survivalist wrote it down in a famous survivalist book.

You must have that following weapons to be a respectable
survivalist:

1) An AR or AK for each member of the household capable of shooting
(individuals over about 6 years of age). A 30-30 will not do.

2) A shotgun to go with each rifle in 1. It does not matter if you have no use
for a shotgun.

3) A handgun to go with each rifle in 1

4) Ammo stocked for 1, 2 , and 3.

5) A long range rifle in 308—This
really needs to be a bolt gun if you intend to be a tier one survivalist. SR25
or SPR can't count. 30-06, 300mag, 338mag, 270, etc. just will not do, and it doesn't
matter that the terrain will not allow a clear 250 yard shot.

6) SKS handout guns. Nope can't count a 30-30 here either. It doesn't matter if
you have nobody that you would trust to hand out to.

7) Ammo stocked for 5 and 6.
So now that you know the rules, and your ammo stocks have been measured and
found lacking.

1-5-39

Posted: 1/31/2011 5:12:59 AM EDT

[#6]

Sure there is a place. Take a look at my Henry 22. No, it's not a powerhouse. i can shoot and carry a ton of cheap ammo. When needed, I can load silent CB/BBs. I expect there will be a lot more small game meals than game that needs a 30/30.

Posted: 1/31/2011 5:46:09 AM EDT

[#7]

Buddy of mines wife has a Marlin in .357. She owns the first hundred yards with it. She shoots it often and well.

Posted: 1/31/2011 5:57:44 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
For your average guy who is looking at long term survival and isn't counting on extended mass combat with anyone, what is the viability of a good 30-30 leaver action such as the Marlin or Winchester variety as a primary survival rifle? (Of note, this is simply a question as food for thought. I already have my stockpile

)

AFAIC there is nothing wrong with a lever action however there are so many better choices out there why would you want to go that route? Ammo prices will eat you alive, ammo availability isn't as good as some others, your long range capabilities are severely limited, the ballistics suck and you have a rifle that was built with the idea in mind that it probably won't be fired more than a dozen times a year therefore durability comes into question.

I love lever action rifles but the idea of making one my PRIMARY shtf rifle leaves me

.

Posted: 1/31/2011 6:01:41 AM EDT

[#9]

If you can shoot it well and keep it running no matter what, why not?

There is an awful lot to be said about being comfortable and proficient with your chosen weapon. If your lever action gives you those things, then you're good to go.

Lets face it, an Army Ranger or a Recon Marine armed with a single shot 22 is going to easily stomp my ass-even if I'm carrying a $3500 pimped out Colt. Training and mindset trumps gear-time and time again.

Posted: 1/31/2011 6:02:17 AM EDT

[#10]

I've always had a long distance love affair with the 38 / 357 version, but can never find one.
Saw 30-30's for $15 a box, that's not bad. Depending on resources $ 6 rnds of 30 cal can be effective.

Posted: 1/31/2011 6:26:31 AM EDT

[#11]

The guys here that know their firearms don't hate the 30-30s. Some folks just do not like leaver guns.

In the great ammo shortage of a few months back, 30-30 was stacked on the shelf next to the blank spaces for 308 and 223. 30-30 is available at the store in some of the small towns I've been in.

not in these parts. it was out of stock first and for far longer than .mil calibers.

Posted: 1/31/2011 6:38:23 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
not in these parts. it was out of stock first and for far longer than .mil calibers.

It's interesting to me how the ammo shortage manifested itself in different parts of the country. Around here 30-30 was available everywhere-but I don't own anything chambered in that caliber. Almost bought one, just because of ammo availability.

All the shortage did for me was reinforce my lack of confidence in counting on commercial resupply. Fortunately for me I've been a mag and ammo whore for over two decades.

Posted: 1/31/2011 6:47:13 AM EDT

[#13]

I think a good lever should be in everyones safe. I have 2 Rossi's in .38/.357 to go along with the Smith 686 revolvers also in .357. I think for the majority of "SHTF" it will be much more prudent to be walking around with a leveraction than a tricked out AR/AK.

Don't get me wrong, you should still have the AR/AK in the safe just-in-case.

Posted: 1/31/2011 7:26:44 AM EDT

[#14]

I'd prefer an AK over a lever action personally. Ammo for ak is about 1/2 the price of 30/30 around here. Also if you ever tried loading a lever 30/30, it isn't exactly quick. It is so easy to have loaded mags of AK ready and just pop one in vs. trying to load the 30/30 one at a time. Now having said that, I do think a nice light 44mag lever action would be cool for survival hunting/defense.

Posted: 1/31/2011 7:46:24 AM EDT

[#15]

Posted: 1/31/2011 7:55:19 AM EDT

[#16]

I have a .44 mag setup so the same ammunition works in both my .44 mag handguns as well as the rifle.

Posted: 1/31/2011 8:28:49 AM EDT

[#17]

I have a marlin in 44mag and a .444. I beat down the .44mag for 12+ years and even after the part that retains the ammo in the tube broke I took 2 deer with it. Its never failed to go bang ever. The 444 was dead nuts on from the day I bought it and has never failed me.

My fiancee can shoot but isnt real gun savy. She is content with plinking once in a while and its almost always with a handgun. She was able to pick up the .444 , figure out how to load it , cycle the action and proceeded to hit a soda can about 100 yards away on the 1st shot , then back it up with a second shot when it landed again.

Id say the platform and most calibers have proven themselves over some. Oh and I bought my brother one in ,35rem when he was 18

Posted: 1/31/2011 8:33:37 AM EDT

[#18]

Big con: The military dropped lever actions as soon as bolt actions became available.

Why? Bolts usually hold less, but are easier to reload and are more reliable.

How well would you shoot prone a lever action versus a bolt? I like lever actions and shoot them well, but in a survival scenario, I think a SKS is a better choice.

Posted: 1/31/2011 8:35:19 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

I have a .44 mag setup so the same ammunition works in both my .44 mag handguns as well as the rifle.

Mine is 45 Colt for the same reason. I also have enough lead, bullet molds, and both smokless and black powder to keep these going for a VERY long time even though odds are good I would never use up all my other options before needing to resort to using the lever action. Still, it makes a great deer rifle too and my 20-inch barrel has 10-rounds in the magazine so that is a good amount of firepower. Nothing wrong with having options and if I am going to reload for my revolvers, I figured I might as well have a rifle that can use that ammo supply too!

Posted: 1/31/2011 8:36:07 AM EDT

[#20]

I have a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 Gov. If I was bugging out in Canada or Alaska... it would be my first choice just based on the fact that any game up there is BIG. 45/70 will blow straight through a both shoulders on a Grizzly or Brown bear with some of the hardcast bullets (Garrett cartridges).... and itll certainly drop a moose or a buffalo. Also.... I dont know about 30/30 so much.... but with 45/70 you can reload with blackpowder. Might be something to consider since blackpowder is something that you COULD make yourself if you know where to get the materials and how to do it.

Overall it'd be a great rifle for day to day carry in the more rural parts of the country.... saddle carry, fits in truck bench seats well.... but at the same token... if youre going with 30-30.... might as well just carry an AK. At the same ranges, a 7.62x39 could easily take down anything you hunt with a 30-30 (white tail, mule deer, hogs, feral pomeranians, horses, people, coyotes, black bear)

Posted: 1/31/2011 8:37:15 AM EDT

[#21]

Depends on the survival situation I guess. Do you visualize your survival situation as shooting at hordes of zombies or invaders? A lever action is probably not going to cut it.

Lost in the wilderness? I'd take my .30-30 over my ARs.

Posted: 1/31/2011 8:41:07 AM EDT

[#22]

Have a small .44 mag carbine, one of those imported ones, but it's slow to load and for some reason the box of .44 Longs won't load in the tube.

I don't know why...

Very small and light, real handy to have around, and makes me feel better at night in the mtns. Need to have a light on it.

Oh, the safety in front of the hammer is hard to toggle, not sure my SO could do it in a pinch.

Posted: 1/31/2011 8:44:16 AM EDT

[#23]

I don't have a .30-30, but I do have a Winchester 9422 that I'd have no problem relying on as a primary SHTF rifle. It's plenty accurate for what I'd need, and can handle .22 Shorts, Longs, and Long Rifles.

Here in PA, I'd bet more deer have been taken over the years with .30-30 lever guns than with any other type/caliber.

Posted: 1/31/2011 8:46:20 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c75/Halffast/IMG_0234-1.jpg

Put a hush kit on that, then I'll let you

Posted: 1/31/2011 9:01:30 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c75/Halffast/IMG_0234-1.jpg

Put a hush kit on that, then I'll let you

Dern you, PA...that's a great idea. Just one more reason to get a .308 can.

Posted: 1/31/2011 9:02:31 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Yeah, forgive the misspelling. My spell-check didn't catch it, and my stupid factor kicked in.

Nor is my computer letting me fix it.

I'll fix it....it'll make me nuts looking at that in a thread title.

ETA: There....I feel better now.

Posted: 1/31/2011 9:03:50 AM EDT

[#27]

not reading all the other posts i like a lever action for a survival gun. not everyone is envisioning fire fights with mzb's or worried about shooting past 100 yards. its a proven reliable cartridge, has adequite knockdown power, simple mechanism, and ammo is easy to find everywhere. remember outside of our community of black rifle enthusiests the 223/556 isn't the most common round among the general population of shooters.. in my urban neighborhood i can think of three guys i know to be shooters/hunters that don't own anything 223.

Posted: 1/31/2011 9:04:27 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

AFAIC there is nothing wrong with a lever action however there are so many better choices out there why would you want to go that route? Ammo prices will eat you alive, ammo availability isn't as good as some others, your long range capabilities are severely limited, the ballistics suck and you have a rifle that was built with the idea in mind that it probably won't be fired more than a dozen times a year therefore durability comes into question.

I love lever action rifles but the idea of making one my PRIMARY shtf rifle leaves me

.

Those cowboy action guys put tons of rounds through lever actions. Durability isn't really in question. Carry a few common spare parts just like any other platform. If you can afford to wear one out you can afford to pick up a new one every once in a while.

Lever actions are just another choice. They certainly don't sound any sillier than the people who plan to lug around a battle rifle with hundreds of rounds of .308 ammo loaded in mags.

Posted: 1/31/2011 9:07:10 AM EDT

[#29]

The only down side I see to them is they can be hard to reload fast when your hands are freezing.

Other than that, it isn't a bad choice.

Posted: 1/31/2011 9:10:15 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c75/Halffast/IMG_0234-1.jpg

Put a hush kit on that, then I'll let you

Dern you, PA...that's a great idea. Just one more reason to get a .308 can.

Just helping you spend your money

That is a fine looking rifle Halffast

Posted: 1/31/2011 9:13:00 AM EDT

[#31]

Another plus for the lever action:

In most places it won't draw the same attention as a military style semi-auto rifle would.

Posted: 1/31/2011 9:25:18 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Buddy of mines wife has a Marlin in .357. She owns the first hundred yards with it. She shoots it often and well.

Anybody that shoots well and often is going to be a valuable asset to have around in a crisis.

Something else that's beneficial with a lever action is the ability to top it off on the go.

Posted: 1/31/2011 9:57:55 AM EDT

[#33]

All good comments but something to think about?

If your are in a suburban environment let's say west coast and/or east coast leftest states a lever gun slinged would not be as alarming as a dreaded black rifle with that shoulder thing as the politicians state. It may allow you to move more freely with out the looks of disgust when receiving the government cheese in the FEMA lines, just trying to help here.

Posted: 1/31/2011 10:06:04 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
If your are in a suburban environment let's say west coast and/or east coast leftest states a lever gun slinged would not be as alarming as a dreaded black rifle with that shoulder thing as the politicians state. It may allow you to move more freely with out the looks of disgust when receiving the government cheese in the FEMA lines, just trying to help here.

I see that sentiment expressed pretty often. I personally wouldn't bet on it. From my perspective, anybody carrying a rifle is a threat and all threats deserve attention. I don't think I'm alone in this approach. The enemy with the shitty old bolt gun will kill you and yours just as dead as the guy with the fancy "assault rifle."

Posted: 1/31/2011 10:15:09 AM EDT

[#35]

Let's review this shall we?

Quoted:
Lever Actions for SHTF (my ignorant opinion)

Pros:
Simpler mechanism = more reliable than semi autos (of the same price range)

incorrect. The Lever action is the most COMPLEX of common repeaters and uses several small & fragile parts. The AR & AK are simpler and more reliable. The bolt action is simpler still and again more reliable.

With a box magazine fed rifle if the magazine goes bad you replace it and drive on.

With bolt actions the magazine is well protected by the stock. If damaged the gun can still be run as a single shot.

WIth most lever action the magazine is a tube under the barrel and is subject to getting dented - thus stopping the rifle and preventing it's use till you get it to a smith for repair (BTDT

).

Good knock down power

While Gun rag made up terms like 'knock down power' don't win you any points. There terminal performance of most lever actions is nothing special - AND the ballistics generally suck (as MOST lever actions don't allow the use of spitzer type bullets).
If you need a more powerful gun then go with a bolt action (or an AR-10)
However with an intermediate cartridge (like the 7.62x39, 6.8 SPC, and 6.5 Grendel) you can get as good or better terminal performance as the .30-30 with less recoil and less weight (and in the case of the 7.62x39 FAR less cost) - and in range/ballistics the 6.x class cartridges kick the .30-30s ass.

Accurate with quick follow up shots (compared to a bolt action)

Bolt actions are FAR more accurate. As for speed of follow up shots the bolt is/can be just as fast - with far less chance of breakage and cartridges with better ballistics.

In an accuracy contest between a lever action, bolt, and AR-15 the lever action comes in last...

They just look cool

Yes they do, but that doesn't really help you does it?

reasonable size and weight for carrying

As is a bolt action rifle or an M4 type carbine. Where most lever actions seem to be lacking is the provision for a sling.

Can a lever action rifle be used? Sure it can, as can a Trap Door Springfield. Is it optimal, even for a manually operated rifle? No even then the bolt action is a better choice. But a lever action sure beats a sharp stick (or even a shotgun IMHO).

Posted: 1/31/2011 11:14:39 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
I have a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 Gov. If I was bugging out in Canada or Alaska... it would be my first choice just based on the fact that any game up there is BIG. 45/70 will blow straight through a both shoulders on a Grizzly or Brown bear with some of the hardcast bullets (Garrett cartridges).... and itll certainly drop a moose or a buffalo. Also.... I dont know about 30/30 so much.... but with 45/70 you can reload with blackpowder. Might be something to consider since blackpowder is something that you COULD make yourself if you know where to get the materials and how to do it.

Overall it'd be a great rifle for day to day carry in the more rural parts of the country.... saddle carry, fits in truck bench seats well.... but at the same token... if youre going with 30-30.... might as well just carry an AK. At the same ranges, a 7.62x39 could easily take down anything you hunt with a 30-30 (white tail, mule deer, hogs, feral pomeranians, horses, people, coyotes, black bear)

Shooting a 45-70? Wouldn't a 45-70 bolt gun actually be better against dangerous game? I don't see too many lever actions on safari in Africa.
A 45-70 bolt gun would be stronger and likely more reliable and less likely to have an issue reloading over a lever action.

Posted: 1/31/2011 11:17:39 AM EDT

[#37]

A lever action will do if you will do. I don't have one as my primary but my Marlin 336 in .30-30 counts as part of my survival battery. I picked up a couple hundred rounds of Remington 170 grain JSPs at Cabela's during a post-deer season sale.

I favor the Marlins because they are easier to field strip for cleaning and maintenance. E.g., you can clean a Marlin from the breech if you remove the lever screw, which allows you to remove the lever, bolt, and ejector. Disassembly of Winchesters is more involved.

A couple years ago I posted on my blog about a spare parts kit for my Marlin, here. I included then-current stock numbers and prices from Brownells.

Posted: 1/31/2011 11:24:48 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
For your average guy who is looking at long term survival and isn't counting on extended mass combat with anyone, what is the viability of a good 30-30 lever action such as the Marlin or Winchester variety as a primary survival rifle? (Of note, this is simply a question as food for thought. I already have my stockpile

)

absolutely. the average joe gun owner has just that, a hunting gun, maybee one for trap and maybee a handgun. thats what he's gonna have and a box or two of each type of ammo. most regular guys dont think about things like we do. hell, i know some AR owners who say they are survivalists who only have 50 rds of ammo and they say to me, why do i need 1000, if i wanna shoot, i'll go buy more.

if i didnt have my AR's, i could get it done with my 30/30 and a few sks's. in fact, up to this past year, thats all i really had.

Posted: 1/31/2011 11:38:40 AM EDT

[#39]

My 30-30s have put an awful lot of meat on the table over the years... there's not a critter on the continent (hell, probably the world) that you couldn't make dead with it

Not the best tool for the job if you regularly shoot over about 150 yards though.

I've got a nifty leather saddle scabbard for one as well.

Posted: 1/31/2011 12:08:52 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 Gov. If I was bugging out in Canada or Alaska... it would be my first choice just based on the fact that any game up there is BIG. 45/70 will blow straight through a both shoulders on a Grizzly or Brown bear with some of the hardcast bullets (Garrett cartridges).... and itll certainly drop a moose or a buffalo. Also.... I dont know about 30/30 so much.... but with 45/70 you can reload with blackpowder. Might be something to consider since blackpowder is something that you COULD make yourself if you know where to get the materials and how to do it.

Overall it'd be a great rifle for day to day carry in the more rural parts of the country.... saddle carry, fits in truck bench seats well.... but at the same token... if youre going with 30-30.... might as well just carry an AK. At the same ranges, a 7.62x39 could easily take down anything you hunt with a 30-30 (white tail, mule deer, hogs, feral pomeranians, horses, people, coyotes, black bear)

Shooting a 45-70? Wouldn't a 45-70 bolt gun actually be better against dangerous game? I don't see too many lever actions on safari in Africa.
A 45-70 bolt gun would be stronger and likely more reliable and less likely to have an issue reloading over a lever action.

Honestly.... other than the Handirifle (and thats not even a bolt gun).... I dont know of a single bolt action chambered in 45/70 gov. The cartridge was originally a trapdoor rifle round and later used in lever actions by the US military in the late 1800s. Also, I imagine you dont see many lever actions in africa because the folks that can afford that type of thing can also afford $10000+ custom double barrel rifles chambered in exotic calibers that no normal human would use in daily shooting life. 45-70 is what Id consider the most common big medicine in north america... we dont have any any elephants here but a 45/70 will slam a grizzly into the dirt.... and if for some reason your a crummy shot, you have a tube full of extras right behind it. I do agree on the bolt action being a stronger though... at the same time, thats a pretty low pressure round in comparison to bolt action calibers like 7mm mag, 300 win mag, and 30.06.

All that being said, if I ever go to africa... Id take my 45/70 loaded up with some garrett exiters. 500gr and 2400ft/lbs... itll cure your problems. pretty similar to a 416 rigby at that point. no 450 express but what person in their right mind would want to shoot that.... ever!

Posted: 1/31/2011 12:26:58 PM EDT

[#41]

12ga pump shotguns, and rifle cal leverguns are about equal in their ability.
They load with a closed breach. They can be light weight. Dependable. Accurate.

A fine survival weapon. A good choice.

A limited fighting weapon.- Quite simply, they are not capable of sustained volume/searching fire.

Now combine a Glock 19, and a 30.30 LG, then you are set!

My first choice for a survival weapon would be a SKS, or an folding stock AK.

Posted: 1/31/2011 12:39:50 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If your are in a suburban environment let's say west coast and/or east coast leftest states a lever gun slinged would not be as alarming as a dreaded black rifle with that shoulder thing as the politicians state. It may allow you to move more freely with out the looks of disgust when receiving the government cheese in the FEMA lines, just trying to help here.

I see that sentiment expressed pretty often. I personally wouldn't bet on it. From my perspective, anybody carrying a rifle is a threat and all threats deserve attention. I don't think I'm alone in this approach. The enemy with the shitty old bolt gun will kill you and yours just as dead as the guy with the fancy "assault rifle."

Just my experience, but in rural areas a guy packing a "30-30", bolt gun, your typical hunting style shotgun or a revolver in a belt holster will hardly get a second glance. I live in an area that most consider "Country" and these type weapons are seen almost daily. Now if I'm carrying my M1A, AR-15, AKM or a pistol in a drop leg holster I'll get stared at a lot, even by other hunters/gun people. Of course in areas where people don't see guns on a daily basis anyone openly carrying a gun will draw attention.

I agree anyone carrying a firearm is a threat but I think many people have been conditioned by our media and Hollywood to see non-LEOs carrying "Military" style weapons as "Bad" guys, people carrying "Fudd" guns, not so much. Try this test some time: Show a non-gun person a Model 94 rifle and an AKM type rifle with a 30 round magazine in it at the same time and I will bet their attention is drawn to the AKM every time.

And Forest, where do you get the idea it's hard to put a sling on a lever action rifle? It's no more difficult to mount a sling on one than any other rifle. All my rifles have slings, If you want to do anything with your hands besides carry a rifle, a sling is a requirement.

Posted: 1/31/2011 12:44:25 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 Gov. If I was bugging out in Canada or Alaska... it would be my first choice just based on the fact that any game up there is BIG. 45/70 will blow straight through a both shoulders on a Grizzly or Brown bear with some of the hardcast bullets (Garrett cartridges).... and itll certainly drop a moose or a buffalo. Also.... I dont know about 30/30 so much.... but with 45/70 you can reload with blackpowder. Might be something to consider since blackpowder is something that you COULD make yourself if you know where to get the materials and how to do it.

Overall it'd be a great rifle for day to day carry in the more rural parts of the country.... saddle carry, fits in truck bench seats well.... but at the same token... if youre going with 30-30.... might as well just carry an AK. At the same ranges, a 7.62x39 could easily take down anything you hunt with a 30-30 (white tail, mule deer, hogs, feral pomeranians, horses, people, coyotes, black bear)

Shooting a 45-70? Wouldn't a 45-70 bolt gun actually be better against dangerous game? I don't see too many lever actions on safari in Africa.
A 45-70 bolt gun would be stronger and likely more reliable and less likely to have an issue reloading over a lever action.

Honestly.... other than the Handirifle (and thats not even a bolt gun).... I dont know of a single bolt action chambered in 45/70 gov. The cartridge was originally a trapdoor rifle round and later used in lever actions by the US military in the late 1800s. Also, I imagine you dont see many lever actions in africa because the folks that can afford that type of thing can also afford $10000+ custom double barrel rifles chambered in exotic calibers that no normal human would use in daily shooting life. 45-70 is what Id consider the most common big medicine in north america... we dont have any any elephants here but a 45/70 will slam a grizzly into the dirt.... and if for some reason your a crummy shot, you have a tube full of extras right behind it. I do agree on the bolt action being a stronger though... at the same time, thats a pretty low pressure round in comparison to bolt action calibers like 7mm mag, 300 win mag, and 30.06.

All that being said, if I ever go to africa... Id take my 45/70 loaded up with some garrett exiters. 500gr and 2400ft/lbs... itll cure your problems. pretty similar to a 416 rigby at that point. no 450 express but what person in their right mind would want to shoot that.... ever!

Gibbs Rifle made a 45-70 SMLE, almost bought one. Still prefer a bolt action dangerous game rifle but may just be because I didn't grow up with a lever action.
One of the guys I hunt Elk with prefers his pump action 30.06 to a bolt or semi. He says he is just used to an 870.

Posted: 1/31/2011 12:46:36 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
And Forest, where do you get the idea it's hard to put a sling on a lever action rifle? It's no more difficult to mount a sling on one than any other rifle. All my rifles have slings, If you want to do anything with your hands besides carry a rifle, a sling is a requirement.

None of the Lever actions owned by myself, my brothers or my father came with sling loops or studs. That handguard on the front isn't solid enough to accept a sling stud so you must purchase another mounting option.

Whereas ALL my ARs came with the ability to mount a sling, all the bolt actions I and my family have ownd either came with sling loops or would readily accept studs for sling loops. Even my cheap shotgun was better equiped for slings than my Winchester.

Now can you put a sling on a lever action? Sure it's possible, but in my experience it requires specialized components and is an additional purchase.

Also use of a shooting sling on a lever action is not recomended for obvious reasons.

Posted: 1/31/2011 12:52:40 PM EDT

[#45]

incorrect. The Lever action is the most COMPLEX of common repeaters and uses several small & fragile parts. The AR & AK are simpler and more reliable. The bolt action is simpler still and again more reliable.

Stupidest comment I have read in along time

Posted: 1/31/2011 12:54:56 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

incorrect. The Lever action is the most COMPLEX of common repeaters and uses several small & fragile parts. The AR & AK are simpler and more reliable. The bolt action is simpler still and again more reliable.

Stupidest comment I have read in along time

Then you are lacking in both mechanical ability and knowledge of firearms.

Posted: 1/31/2011 1:47:37 PM EDT

[#47]

I realize its the dead of winter, and yet another storm is on the way, but I think you guys should shake off your cabin fever and argue about something else. I honestly think we need to tighten it up in here. A lever-gun is a decent weapon. No, its not as formidable as an SKS or AK, or a 50BMG, or whatever, but in the hands of a skilled shooter, a lever action rifle is a fine choice.

Posted: 1/31/2011 1:51:59 PM EDT

[#48]

I took a sling off an AR a couple years ago and attached it to a 336 without issue and with no additional parts. It's news to me that levers are difficult to sling.

Posted: 1/31/2011 5:04:59 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Welcome to the SF

The guys here that know their firearms don't hate the 30-30s. Some folks just do not like leaver guns.

In the great ammo shortage of a few months back, 30-30 was stacked on the shelf next to the blank spaces for 308 and 223. 30-30 is available at the store in some of the small towns I've been in. If you want 30-30 in shipping container quantities then you will need to call up Federal, Remington, or Winchester.

This is a survival forum, so you must understand that there are some answersthat you get that have been standard for decades because some famoussurvivalist wrote it down in a famous survivalist book.

You must have that following weapons to be a respectablesurvivalist:
1) An AR or AK for each member of the household capable of shooting(individuals over about 6 years of age). A 30-30 will not do.
2) A shotgun to go with each rifle in 1. It does not matter if you have no usefor a shotgun.
3) A handgun to go with each rifle in 1
4) Ammo stocked for 1, 2 , and 3.
5) A long range rifle in 308—Thisreally needs to be a bolt gun if you intend to be a tier one survivalist. SR25or SPR can't count. 30-06, 300mag, 338mag, 270, etc. just will not do, and it doesn'tmatter that the terrain will not allow a clear 250 yard shot.
6) SKS handout guns. Nope can't count a 30-30 here either. It doesn't matter ifyou have nobody that you would trust to hand out to.
7) Ammo stocked for 5 and 6.

So now that you know the rules, and your ammo stocks have been measured andfound lacking.

1-5-39

you forgot the .22

Posted: 1/31/2011 5:21:20 PM EDT

[#50]

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Uncle Mike's makes sling rigs for lever guns for under $20.

IMO having a rifle and a pistol that uses a single caliber has some great advanatges in a survival situation. The one above is in .357 Mag. and complements my S & W Model 28 in the same caliber. BTW I also have a .30-30.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Lever Action as a survival gun? (Page 1 of 2)

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