Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous
Page / 2
Basic
  • Member
  • Dec 2010
  • USA USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Dec 2010
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 17
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
Posted: 1/31/2011 2:35:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 8:03:01 AM EST by Feral]
For your average guy who is looking at long term survival and isn't counting on extended mass combat with anyone, what is the viability of a good 30-30 lever action such as the Marlin or Winchester variety as a primary survival rifle? (Of note, this is simply a question as food for thought. I already have my stockpile )
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2010
  • USA OH, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2010
  • USA OH, USA
  • Posts: 11
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 2:45:26 AM EST
Daniel Webster is turning in his grave.
Basic
  • Member
  • Dec 2010
  • USA USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Dec 2010
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 18
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 2:48:39 AM EST
Yeah, forgive the misspelling. My spell-check didn't catch it, and my stupid factor kicked in. Nor is my computer letting me fix it.
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2008
  • USA NC, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2008
  • USA NC, USA
  • Posts: 405
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 2:59:21 AM EST
Lever Actions for SHTF (my ignorant opinion)

Pros:
Simpler mechanism = more reliable than semi autos (of the same price range)
Good knock down power
Accurate with quick follow up shots (compared to a bolt action)
They just look cool
reasonable size and weight for carrying

Cons:
limited capacity (# of rounds)
Expensive / harder-to-find ammo
replacement parts more difficult to find
Not well suited to sniper type shots - +200 yards
A leader is a dealer in hope. ~Napoleon Bonaparte
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • May 2009
  • USA LA, USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • May 2009
  • USA LA, USA
Military
  • Posts: 4207
  • Feedback: 100% (8)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 3:30:23 AM EST
I would have no problem with my 94 as my survival weapon. I killed 3 deer running with it, several wild hogs. It's never let me down in over 20 years. The hollow points make a nasty exit wound as well.
The first SF shower pic
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2004
  • USA TX, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2004
  • USA TX, USA
  • Posts: 7460
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 4:04:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 4:05:18 AM EST by PA22-400]
Welcome to the SF

The guys here that know their firearms don't hate the 30-30s. Some folks just do not like leaver guns.

In the great ammo shortage of a few months back, 30-30 was stacked on the shelf next to the blank spaces for 308 and 223. 30-30 is available at the store in some of the small towns I've been in. If you want 30-30 in shipping container quantities then you will need to call up Federal, Remington, or Winchester.



This is a survival forum, so you must understand that there are some answers that you get that have been standard for decades because some famous survivalist wrote it down in a famous survivalist book.



You must have that following weapons to be a respectable survivalist:
1) An AR or AK for each member of the household capable of shooting (individuals over about 6 years of age). A 30-30 will not do.
2) A shotgun to go with each rifle in 1. It does not matter if you have no use for a shotgun.
3) A handgun to go with each rifle in 1
4) Ammo stocked for 1, 2 , and 3.
5) A long range rifle in 308This really needs to be a bolt gun if you intend to be a tier one survivalist. SR25 or SPR can't count. 30-06, 300mag, 338mag, 270, etc. just will not do, and it doesn't matter that the terrain will not allow a clear 250 yard shot.
6) SKS handout guns. Nope can't count a 30-30 here either. It doesn't matter if you have nobody that you would trust to hand out to.
7) Ammo stocked for 5 and 6.

So now that you know the rules, and your ammo stocks have been measured and found lacking.



1-5-39


Asking for opinions on the internet and then getting upset for getting them is like stirring up a hornets' nest and then getting pissed because you got stung.
Halffast: post 1725
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2005
  • USA MO, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2005
  • USA MO, USA
  • Posts: 257
  • Feedback: 100% (54)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 4:12:59 AM EST
Sure there is a place. Take a look at my Henry 22. No, it's not a powerhouse. i can shoot and carry a ton of cheap ammo. When needed, I can load silent CB/BBs. I expect there will be a lot more small game meals than game that needs a 30/30.
Basic
  • Member
  • Aug 2004
  • USA OH, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Aug 2004
  • USA OH, USA
  • Posts: 7342
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 4:46:09 AM EST
Buddy of mines wife has a Marlin in .357. She owns the first hundred yards with it. She shoots it often and well.
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2007
  • USA OH, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2007
  • USA OH, USA
  • Posts: 1374
  • Feedback: 100% (3)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 4:57:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By darkpaladin1:
For your average guy who is looking at long term survival and isn't counting on extended mass combat with anyone, what is the viability of a good 30-30 leaver action such as the Marlin or Winchester variety as a primary survival rifle? (Of note, this is simply a question as food for thought. I already have my stockpile )


AFAIC there is nothing wrong with a lever action however there are so many better choices out there why would you want to go that route? Ammo prices will eat you alive, ammo availability isn't as good as some others, your long range capabilities are severely limited, the ballistics suck and you have a rifle that was built with the idea in mind that it probably won't be fired more than a dozen times a year therefore durability comes into question.

I love lever action rifles but the idea of making one my PRIMARY shtf rifle leaves me.
D Co. 1/501st Inf
Blissfully ignorant Colt KoolAid drinker...
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2003
  • USA NH, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2003
  • USA NH, USA
  • Posts: 9840
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 5:01:41 AM EST
If you can shoot it well and keep it running no matter what, why not?

There is an awful lot to be said about being comfortable and proficient with your chosen weapon. If your lever action gives you those things, then you're good to go.

Lets face it, an Army Ranger or a Recon Marine armed with a single shot 22 is going to easily stomp my ass-even if I'm carrying a $3500 pimped out Colt. Training and mindset trumps gear-time and time again.
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.”
-Alexis de Tocqueville

"We're screwed."
-Me
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2010
  • USA OH, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2010
  • USA OH, USA
  • Posts: 12
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 5:02:17 AM EST
I've always had a long distance love affair with the 38 / 357 version, but can never find one.
Saw 30-30's for $15 a box, that's not bad. Depending on resources $ 6 rnds of 30 cal can be effective.
Basic
  • Member
  • Mar 2009
  • USA TN, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Mar 2009
  • USA TN, USA
  • Posts: 814
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 5:26:31 AM EST

The guys here that know their firearms don't hate the 30-30s. Some folks just do not like leaver guns.

In the great ammo shortage of a few months back, 30-30 was stacked on the shelf next to the blank spaces for 308 and 223. 30-30 is available at the store in some of the small towns I've been in.



not in these parts. it was out of stock first and for far longer than .mil calibers.
Blissfully ignorant Colt KoolAid drinker...
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2003
  • USA NH, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2003
  • USA NH, USA
  • Posts: 9843
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 5:38:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By GrassHog:
not in these parts. it was out of stock first and for far longer than .mil calibers.

It's interesting to me how the ammo shortage manifested itself in different parts of the country. Around here 30-30 was available everywhere-but I don't own anything chambered in that caliber. Almost bought one, just because of ammo availability.

All the shortage did for me was reinforce my lack of confidence in counting on commercial resupply. Fortunately for me I've been a mag and ammo whore for over two decades.

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.”
-Alexis de Tocqueville

"We're screwed."
-Me
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2008
  • USA NY, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2008
  • USA NY, USA
  • Posts: 265
  • Feedback: 100% (48)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 5:47:13 AM EST
I think a good lever should be in everyones safe. I have 2 Rossi's in .38/.357 to go along with the Smith 686 revolvers also in .357. I think for the majority of "SHTF" it will be much more prudent to be walking around with a leveraction than a tricked out AR/AK.

Don't get me wrong, you should still have the AR/AK in the safe just-in-case.
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2009
  • USA TX, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2009
  • USA TX, USA
  • Posts: 616
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 6:26:44 AM EST
I'd prefer an AK over a lever action personally. Ammo for ak is about 1/2 the price of 30/30 around here. Also if you ever tried loading a lever 30/30, it isn't exactly quick. It is so easy to have loaded mags of AK ready and just pop one in vs. trying to load the 30/30 one at a time. Now having said that, I do think a nice light 44mag lever action would be cool for survival hunting/defense.
Wannabe Hack
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jun 2001
  • USA TX, USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jun 2001
  • USA TX, USA
  • Posts: 2407
  • Feedback: 100% (3)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 6:46:24 AM EST


Me: What do you mean you don't know what shit on a shingle is? You're in the military, aren't you?
Her: Dad...I'm in the Air Force!

SWT and Proud member of the Hardass 8.

Molon Labe!
OF Who Likes Guns
Avatar
SiteStaff
  • Site Staff
  • Aug 2002
  • USA TN, USA
SiteStaff
  • Site Staff
  • Aug 2002
  • USA TN, USA
  • Posts: 34548
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 6:55:19 AM EST
"We prepare so we don't have to go to the Superdome!"
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2009
  • USA CT, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2009
  • USA CT, USA
  • Posts: 4912
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 7:28:49 AM EST
I have a marlin in 44mag and a .444. I beat down the .44mag for 12+ years and even after the part that retains the ammo in the tube broke I took 2 deer with it. Its never failed to go bang ever. The 444 was dead nuts on from the day I bought it and has never failed me.

My fiancee can shoot but isnt real gun savy. She is content with plinking once in a while and its almost always with a handgun. She was able to pick up the .444 , figure out how to load it , cycle the action and proceeded to hit a soda can about 100 yards away on the 1st shot , then back it up with a second shot when it landed again.

Id say the platform and most calibers have proven themselves over some. Oh and I bought my brother one in ,35rem when he was 18
blah
Republicans For Voldemort 2012
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2001
  • USA CO, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2001
  • USA CO, USA
  • Posts: 22699
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 7:33:37 AM EST
Big con: The military dropped lever actions as soon as bolt actions became available.

Why? Bolts usually hold less, but are easier to reload and are more reliable.

How well would you shoot prone a lever action versus a bolt? I like lever actions and shoot them well, but in a survival scenario, I think a SKS is a better choice.
When They Knock Down Your Front Door, How You Going To Come? With Your Hands On Your Head Or On The Trigger Of Your Gun?
Bassist Paul Simonon-The Clash
www.Quarterbore.com
Avatar
Lifetime Member
  • Life Member
  • Feb 2001
  • USA PA, USA
Lifetime Member
  • Life Member
  • Feb 2001
  • USA PA, USA
  • Posts: 13108
  • Feedback: 100% (150)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 7:35:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 7:35:34 AM EST by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
I have a .44 mag setup so the same ammunition works in both my .44 mag handguns as well as the rifle.

Mine is 45 Colt for the same reason. I also have enough lead, bullet molds, and both smokless and black powder to keep these going for a VERY long time even though odds are good I would never use up all my other options before needing to resort to using the lever action. Still, it makes a great deer rifle too and my 20-inch barrel has 10-rounds in the magazine so that is a good amount of firepower. Nothing wrong with having options and if I am going to reload for my revolvers, I figured I might as well have a rifle that can use that ammo supply too!
www.Quarterbore.net
My guns are not worth your life, but freedom and liberty are worth mine
Basic
  • Member
  • Jul 2006
  • USA CO, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jul 2006
  • USA CO, USA
  • Posts: 601
  • Feedback: 100% (8)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 7:36:07 AM EST
I have a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 Gov. If I was bugging out in Canada or Alaska... it would be my first choice just based on the fact that any game up there is BIG. 45/70 will blow straight through a both shoulders on a Grizzly or Brown bear with some of the hardcast bullets (Garrett cartridges).... and itll certainly drop a moose or a buffalo. Also.... I dont know about 30/30 so much.... but with 45/70 you can reload with blackpowder. Might be something to consider since blackpowder is something that you COULD make yourself if you know where to get the materials and how to do it.

Overall it'd be a great rifle for day to day carry in the more rural parts of the country.... saddle carry, fits in truck bench seats well.... but at the same token... if youre going with 30-30.... might as well just carry an AK. At the same ranges, a 7.62x39 could easily take down anything you hunt with a 30-30 (white tail, mule deer, hogs, feral pomeranians, horses, people, coyotes, black bear)
A leader is a dealer in hope. ~Napoleon Bonaparte
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • May 2009
  • USA LA, USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • May 2009
  • USA LA, USA
Military
  • Posts: 4222
  • Feedback: 100% (8)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 7:37:15 AM EST
Depends on the survival situation I guess. Do you visualize your survival situation as shooting at hordes of zombies or invaders? A lever action is probably not going to cut it.

Lost in the wilderness? I'd take my .30-30 over my ARs.
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2006
  • USA USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2006
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 6369
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Online
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 7:41:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 7:42:35 AM EST by EXPY37]
Have a small .44 mag carbine, one of those imported ones, but it's slow to load and for some reason the box of .44 Longs won't load in the tube.

I don't know why...

Very small and light, real handy to have around, and makes me feel better at night in the mtns. Need to have a light on it.

Oh, the safety in front of the hammer is hard to toggle, not sure my SO could do it in a pinch.
Basic
  • Member
  • Jul 2008
  • USA PA, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jul 2008
  • USA PA, USA
  • Posts: 937
  • Feedback: 100% (6)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 7:44:16 AM EST
I don't have a .30-30, but I do have a Winchester 9422 that I'd have no problem relying on as a primary SHTF rifle. It's plenty accurate for what I'd need, and can handle .22 Shorts, Longs, and Long Rifles.

Here in PA, I'd bet more deer have been taken over the years with .30-30 lever guns than with any other type/caliber.
The first SF shower pic
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2004
  • USA TX, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2004
  • USA TX, USA
  • Posts: 7463
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 7:46:20 AM EST


Put a hush kit on that, then I'll let you


Asking for opinions on the internet and then getting upset for getting them is like stirring up a hornets' nest and then getting pissed because you got stung.
Halffast: post 1725
Wannabe Hack
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jun 2001
  • USA TX, USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jun 2001
  • USA TX, USA
  • Posts: 2408
  • Feedback: 100% (3)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 8:01:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By PA22-400:


Put a hush kit on that, then I'll let you




Dern you, PA...that's a great idea. Just one more reason to get a .308 can.

Me: What do you mean you don't know what shit on a shingle is? You're in the military, aren't you?
Her: Dad...I'm in the Air Force!

SWT and Proud member of the Hardass 8.

Molon Labe!

Avatar
Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Nov 2004
  • USA PA, USA
Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Nov 2004
  • USA PA, USA
  • Posts: 11364
  • Feedback: 100% (98)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 8:02:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 8:03:38 AM EST by Feral]
* Huh...? What?
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2008
  • USA USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2008
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 293
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 8:03:50 AM EST
not reading all the other posts i like a lever action for a survival gun. not everyone is envisioning fire fights with mzb's or worried about shooting past 100 yards. its a proven reliable cartridge, has adequite knockdown power, simple mechanism, and ammo is easy to find everywhere. remember outside of our community of black rifle enthusiests the 223/556 isn't the most common round among the general population of shooters.. in my urban neighborhood i can think of three guys i know to be shooters/hunters that don't own anything 223.
"Your wife is so white trash." - My wife, to me.
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2009
  • USA FL, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2009
  • USA FL, USA
  • Posts: 23
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 8:04:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By karnaaj:


AFAIC there is nothing wrong with a lever action however there are so many better choices out there why would you want to go that route? Ammo prices will eat you alive, ammo availability isn't as good as some others, your long range capabilities are severely limited, the ballistics suck and you have a rifle that was built with the idea in mind that it probably won't be fired more than a dozen times a year therefore durability comes into question.

I love lever action rifles but the idea of making one my PRIMARY shtf rifle leaves me.

Those cowboy action guys put tons of rounds through lever actions. Durability isn't really in question. Carry a few common spare parts just like any other platform. If you can afford to wear one out you can afford to pick up a new one every once in a while.

Lever actions are just another choice. They certainly don't sound any sillier than the people who plan to lug around a battle rifle with hundreds of rounds of .308 ammo loaded in mags.


Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2003
  • USA MT, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2003
  • USA MT, USA
  • Posts: 12159
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 8:07:10 AM EST
The only down side I see to them is they can be hard to reload fast when your hands are freezing.

Other than that, it isn't a bad choice.
كافر
Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:
"Fucking Awesome. I love this song, and i'm a trekkie, so its like donuts with bacon and cheese, all nicely wrapped up in some quality sex and deep fried in beer. For christmas.&#
The first SF shower pic
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2004
  • USA TX, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2004
  • USA TX, USA
  • Posts: 7464
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 8:10:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By Halffast:
Originally Posted By PA22-400:


Put a hush kit on that, then I'll let you




Dern you, PA...that's a great idea. Just one more reason to get a .308 can.



Just helping you spend your money

That is a fine looking rifle Halffast
Asking for opinions on the internet and then getting upset for getting them is like stirring up a hornets' nest and then getting pissed because you got stung.
Halffast: post 1725
Chupa Thingy
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2007
  • USA MI, USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2007
  • USA MI, USA
Military
  • Posts: 2525
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Online
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 8:13:00 AM EST
Another plus for the lever action:

In most places it won't draw the same attention as a military style semi-auto rifle would.
USN Retired: APR 1988 - MAY 2008

"He that lives upon hope will die fasting." - Benjamin Franklin
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2003
  • USA UT, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2003
  • USA UT, USA
  • Posts: 28476
  • Feedback: 100% (13)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 8:25:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By DanishM1Garand:
Buddy of mines wife has a Marlin in .357. She owns the first hundred yards with it. She shoots it often and well.


Anybody that shoots well and often is going to be a valuable asset to have around in a crisis.

Something else that's beneficial with a lever action is the ability to top it off on the go.
In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children

-Captain Moroni
72 B.C.
Basic
  • Member
  • Nov 2007
  • USA CA, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Nov 2007
  • USA CA, USA
  • Posts: 183
  • Feedback: 100% (6)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 8:57:55 AM EST
All good comments but something to think about?

If your are in a suburban environment let's say west coast and/or east coast leftest states a lever gun slinged would not be as alarming as a dreaded black rifle with that shoulder thing as the politicians state. It may allow you to move more freely with out the looks of disgust when receiving the government cheese in the FEMA lines, just trying to help here.

Avatar
Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Nov 2004
  • USA PA, USA
Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Nov 2004
  • USA PA, USA
  • Posts: 11365
  • Feedback: 100% (98)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 9:06:04 AM EST
6.8 > 6.5
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2000
  • USA MD, USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2000
  • USA MD, USA
Military
  • Posts: 39562
  • Feedback: 100% (29)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 9:15:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 9:17:10 AM EST by Forest]
'98 Jeep XJ Owner

"Free thinking is great.. that's how the Assault wheelbarrow with silenced .22 rifle was born..." Harv24
Republicans For Voldemort 2012
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2001
  • USA CO, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2001
  • USA CO, USA
  • Posts: 22702
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 10:14:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By DrunkTank:
I have a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 Gov. If I was bugging out in Canada or Alaska... it would be my first choice just based on the fact that any game up there is BIG. 45/70 will blow straight through a both shoulders on a Grizzly or Brown bear with some of the hardcast bullets (Garrett cartridges).... and itll certainly drop a moose or a buffalo. Also.... I dont know about 30/30 so much.... but with 45/70 you can reload with blackpowder. Might be something to consider since blackpowder is something that you COULD make yourself if you know where to get the materials and how to do it.

Overall it'd be a great rifle for day to day carry in the more rural parts of the country.... saddle carry, fits in truck bench seats well.... but at the same token... if youre going with 30-30.... might as well just carry an AK. At the same ranges, a 7.62x39 could easily take down anything you hunt with a 30-30 (white tail, mule deer, hogs, feral pomeranians, horses, people, coyotes, black bear)


Shooting a 45-70? Wouldn't a 45-70 bolt gun actually be better against dangerous game? I don't see too many lever actions on safari in Africa.
A 45-70 bolt gun would be stronger and likely more reliable and less likely to have an issue reloading over a lever action.

When They Knock Down Your Front Door, How You Going To Come? With Your Hands On Your Head Or On The Trigger Of Your Gun?
Bassist Paul Simonon-The Clash
A little short for a Storm Trooper
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2004
  • USA PA, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2004
  • USA PA, USA
  • Posts: 5110
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 10:17:39 AM EST
A lever action will do if you will do. I don't have one as my primary but my Marlin 336 in .30-30 counts as part of my survival battery. I picked up a couple hundred rounds of Remington 170 grain JSPs at Cabela's during a post-deer season sale.

I favor the Marlins because they are easier to field strip for cleaning and maintenance. E.g., you can clean a Marlin from the breech if you remove the lever screw, which allows you to remove the lever, bolt, and ejector. Disassembly of Winchesters is more involved.

A couple years ago I posted on my blog about a spare parts kit for my Marlin, here. I included then-current stock numbers and prices from Brownells.
http://blogostuff.blogspot.com/
http://www.theshootersbar.org/ -- Pro-gun attorneys
RKBA = FREEDOM
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2010
  • USA PA, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2010
  • USA PA, USA
  • Posts: 715
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 10:24:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By darkpaladin1:
For your average guy who is looking at long term survival and isn't counting on extended mass combat with anyone, what is the viability of a good 30-30 lever action such as the Marlin or Winchester variety as a primary survival rifle? (Of note, this is simply a question as food for thought. I already have my stockpile )


absolutely. the average joe gun owner has just that, a hunting gun, maybee one for trap and maybee a handgun. thats what he's gonna have and a box or two of each type of ammo. most regular guys dont think about things like we do. hell, i know some AR owners who say they are survivalists who only have 50 rds of ammo and they say to me, why do i need 1000, if i wanna shoot, i'll go buy more.

if i didnt have my AR's, i could get it done with my 30/30 and a few sks's. in fact, up to this past year, thats all i really had.
Fishing > Work
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2005
  • USA TX, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2005
  • USA TX, USA
  • Posts: 8029
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 10:38:40 AM EST
My 30-30s have put an awful lot of meat on the table over the years... there's not a critter on the continent (hell, probably the world) that you couldn't make dead with it

Not the best tool for the job if you regularly shoot over about 150 yards though.

I've got a nifty leather saddle scabbard for one as well.
Basic
  • Member
  • Jul 2006
  • USA CO, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jul 2006
  • USA CO, USA
  • Posts: 602
  • Feedback: 100% (8)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 11:08:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 11:09:08 AM EST by DrunkTank]
Originally Posted By SS109:
Originally Posted By DrunkTank:
I have a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 Gov. If I was bugging out in Canada or Alaska... it would be my first choice just based on the fact that any game up there is BIG. 45/70 will blow straight through a both shoulders on a Grizzly or Brown bear with some of the hardcast bullets (Garrett cartridges).... and itll certainly drop a moose or a buffalo. Also.... I dont know about 30/30 so much.... but with 45/70 you can reload with blackpowder. Might be something to consider since blackpowder is something that you COULD make yourself if you know where to get the materials and how to do it.

Overall it'd be a great rifle for day to day carry in the more rural parts of the country.... saddle carry, fits in truck bench seats well.... but at the same token... if youre going with 30-30.... might as well just carry an AK. At the same ranges, a 7.62x39 could easily take down anything you hunt with a 30-30 (white tail, mule deer, hogs, feral pomeranians, horses, people, coyotes, black bear)


Shooting a 45-70? Wouldn't a 45-70 bolt gun actually be better against dangerous game? I don't see too many lever actions on safari in Africa.
A 45-70 bolt gun would be stronger and likely more reliable and less likely to have an issue reloading over a lever action.



Honestly.... other than the Handirifle (and thats not even a bolt gun).... I dont know of a single bolt action chambered in 45/70 gov. The cartridge was originally a trapdoor rifle round and later used in lever actions by the US military in the late 1800s. Also, I imagine you dont see many lever actions in africa because the folks that can afford that type of thing can also afford $10000+ custom double barrel rifles chambered in exotic calibers that no normal human would use in daily shooting life. 45-70 is what Id consider the most common big medicine in north america... we dont have any any elephants here but a 45/70 will slam a grizzly into the dirt.... and if for some reason your a crummy shot, you have a tube full of extras right behind it. I do agree on the bolt action being a stronger though... at the same time, thats a pretty low pressure round in comparison to bolt action calibers like 7mm mag, 300 win mag, and 30.06.

All that being said, if I ever go to africa... Id take my 45/70 loaded up with some garrett exiters. 500gr and 2400ft/lbs... itll cure your problems. pretty similar to a 416 rigby at that point. no 450 express but what person in their right mind would want to shoot that.... ever!
1IV
Been there got the tshirt, and a tattoo....
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2005
  • USA TX, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2005
  • USA TX, USA
Military
  • Posts: 8095
  • Feedback: 100% (219)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 11:26:58 AM EST
12ga pump shotguns, and rifle cal leverguns are about equal in their ability.
They load with a closed breach. They can be light weight. Dependable. Accurate.

A fine survival weapon. A good choice.

A limited fighting weapon.- Quite simply, they are not capable of sustained volume/searching fire.

Now combine a Glock 19, and a 30.30 LG, then you are set!

My first choice for a survival weapon would be a SKS, or an folding stock AK.


The 2nd Amendment is not about rights. It is about CAPABILITY. It is about ensuring the capability to respond to violence, and oppression. Not with 1 round, or 10, but with the full force of indignant violence deserved at a breach of our peace.


Chupa Thingy
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2007
  • USA MI, USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2007
  • USA MI, USA
Military
  • Posts: 2526
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Online
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 11:39:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By Feral:
Originally Posted By 11C_ABN:
If your are in a suburban environment let's say west coast and/or east coast leftest states a lever gun slinged would not be as alarming as a dreaded black rifle with that shoulder thing as the politicians state. It may allow you to move more freely with out the looks of disgust when receiving the government cheese in the FEMA lines, just trying to help here.


I see that sentiment expressed pretty often. I personally wouldn't bet on it. From my perspective, anybody carrying a rifle is a threat and all threats deserve attention. I don't think I'm alone in this approach. The enemy with the shitty old bolt gun will kill you and yours just as dead as the guy with the fancy "assault rifle."



Just my experience, but in rural areas a guy packing a "30-30", bolt gun, your typical hunting style shotgun or a revolver in a belt holster will hardly get a second glance. I live in an area that most consider "Country" and these type weapons are seen almost daily. Now if I'm carrying my M1A, AR-15, AKM or a pistol in a drop leg holster I'll get stared at a lot, even by other hunters/gun people. Of course in areas where people don't see guns on a daily basis anyone openly carrying a gun will draw attention.

I agree anyone carrying a firearm is a threat but I think many people have been conditioned by our media and Hollywood to see non-LEOs carrying "Military" style weapons as "Bad" guys, people carrying "Fudd" guns, not so much. Try this test some time: Show a non-gun person a Model 94 rifle and an AKM type rifle with a 30 round magazine in it at the same time and I will bet their attention is drawn to the AKM every time.




And Forest, where do you get the idea it's hard to put a sling on a lever action rifle? It's no more difficult to mount a sling on one than any other rifle. All my rifles have slings, If you want to do anything with your hands besides carry a rifle, a sling is a requirement.
USN Retired: APR 1988 - MAY 2008

"He that lives upon hope will die fasting." - Benjamin Franklin
Republicans For Voldemort 2012
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2001
  • USA CO, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2001
  • USA CO, USA
  • Posts: 22707
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 11:44:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By DrunkTank:
Originally Posted By SS109:
Originally Posted By DrunkTank:
I have a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 Gov. If I was bugging out in Canada or Alaska... it would be my first choice just based on the fact that any game up there is BIG. 45/70 will blow straight through a both shoulders on a Grizzly or Brown bear with some of the hardcast bullets (Garrett cartridges).... and itll certainly drop a moose or a buffalo. Also.... I dont know about 30/30 so much.... but with 45/70 you can reload with blackpowder. Might be something to consider since blackpowder is something that you COULD make yourself if you know where to get the materials and how to do it.

Overall it'd be a great rifle for day to day carry in the more rural parts of the country.... saddle carry, fits in truck bench seats well.... but at the same token... if youre going with 30-30.... might as well just carry an AK. At the same ranges, a 7.62x39 could easily take down anything you hunt with a 30-30 (white tail, mule deer, hogs, feral pomeranians, horses, people, coyotes, black bear)


Shooting a 45-70? Wouldn't a 45-70 bolt gun actually be better against dangerous game? I don't see too many lever actions on safari in Africa.
A 45-70 bolt gun would be stronger and likely more reliable and less likely to have an issue reloading over a lever action.



Honestly.... other than the Handirifle (and thats not even a bolt gun).... I dont know of a single bolt action chambered in 45/70 gov. The cartridge was originally a trapdoor rifle round and later used in lever actions by the US military in the late 1800s. Also, I imagine you dont see many lever actions in africa because the folks that can afford that type of thing can also afford $10000+ custom double barrel rifles chambered in exotic calibers that no normal human would use in daily shooting life. 45-70 is what Id consider the most common big medicine in north america... we dont have any any elephants here but a 45/70 will slam a grizzly into the dirt.... and if for some reason your a crummy shot, you have a tube full of extras right behind it. I do agree on the bolt action being a stronger though... at the same time, thats a pretty low pressure round in comparison to bolt action calibers like 7mm mag, 300 win mag, and 30.06.

All that being said, if I ever go to africa... Id take my 45/70 loaded up with some garrett exiters. 500gr and 2400ft/lbs... itll cure your problems. pretty similar to a 416 rigby at that point. no 450 express but what person in their right mind would want to shoot that.... ever!


Gibbs Rifle made a 45-70 SMLE, almost bought one. Still prefer a bolt action dangerous game rifle but may just be because I didn't grow up with a lever action.
One of the guys I hunt Elk with prefers his pump action 30.06 to a bolt or semi. He says he is just used to an 870.
When They Knock Down Your Front Door, How You Going To Come? With Your Hands On Your Head Or On The Trigger Of Your Gun?
Bassist Paul Simonon-The Clash
6.8 > 6.5
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2000
  • USA MD, USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2000
  • USA MD, USA
Military
  • Posts: 39571
  • Feedback: 100% (29)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 11:46:36 AM EST
'98 Jeep XJ Owner

"Free thinking is great.. that's how the Assault wheelbarrow with silenced .22 rifle was born..." Harv24
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2007
  • USA SD, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2007
  • USA SD, USA
  • Posts: 1122
  • Feedback: 100% (207)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 11:52:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 11:53:47 AM EST by MIhunter]
incorrect. The Lever action is the most COMPLEX of common repeaters and uses several small & fragile parts. The AR & AK are simpler and more reliable. The bolt action is simpler still and again more reliable.



Stupidest comment I have read in along time
6.8 > 6.5
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2000
  • USA MD, USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2000
  • USA MD, USA
Military
  • Posts: 39573
  • Feedback: 100% (29)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 11:54:56 AM EST
'98 Jeep XJ Owner

"Free thinking is great.. that's how the Assault wheelbarrow with silenced .22 rifle was born..." Harv24
Guarding the Flock
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2009
  • USA NH, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2009
  • USA NH, USA
  • Posts: 683
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 12:47:37 PM EST
I realize its the dead of winter, and yet another storm is on the way, but I think you guys should shake off your cabin fever and argue about something else. I honestly think we need to tighten it up in here. A lever-gun is a decent weapon. No, its not as formidable as an SKS or AK, or a 50BMG, or whatever, but in the hands of a skilled shooter, a lever action rifle is a fine choice.
Felicity, the companion of content, is rather found in our own breasts than in the enjoyment of external things; and I firmly believe it requires but a little philosophy to make a man happy in whatever state he is. - Daniel Boone
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2009
  • USA FL, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2009
  • USA FL, USA
  • Posts: 24
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 12:51:59 PM EST
I took a sling off an AR a couple years ago and attached it to a 336 without issue and with no additional parts. It's news to me that levers are difficult to sling.
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA IN, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA IN, USA
  • Posts: 4942
  • Feedback: 100% (30)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 4:04:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By PA22-400:
Welcome to the SF

The guys here that know their firearms don't hate the 30-30s. Some folks just do not like leaver guns.

In the great ammo shortage of a few months back, 30-30 was stacked on the shelf next to the blank spaces for 308 and 223. 30-30 is available at the store in some of the small towns I've been in. If you want 30-30 in shipping container quantities then you will need to call up Federal, Remington, or Winchester.



This is a survival forum, so you must understand that there are some answersthat you get that have been standard for decades because some famoussurvivalist wrote it down in a famous survivalist book.



You must have that following weapons to be a respectablesurvivalist:
1) An AR or AK for each member of the household capable of shooting(individuals over about 6 years of age). A 30-30 will not do.
2) A shotgun to go with each rifle in 1. It does not matter if you have no usefor a shotgun.
3) A handgun to go with each rifle in 1
4) Ammo stocked for 1, 2 , and 3.
5) A long range rifle in 308Thisreally needs to be a bolt gun if you intend to be a tier one survivalist. SR25or SPR can't count. 30-06, 300mag, 338mag, 270, etc. just will not do, and it doesn'tmatter that the terrain will not allow a clear 250 yard shot.
6) SKS handout guns. Nope can't count a 30-30 here either. It doesn't matter ifyou have nobody that you would trust to hand out to.
7) Ammo stocked for 5 and 6.

So now that you know the rules, and your ammo stocks have been measured andfound lacking.



1-5-39



you forgot the .22
"I really could use a thread to masturbate to."- Playmore Minds 12-04-2007

"I can't imagine being so utterly clueless and then thinking you have a valid point to make in a public forum." -Lumpy196 10-15-2010



Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2009
  • USA FL, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2009
  • USA FL, USA
  • Posts: 859
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 1/31/2011 4:21:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 4:22:37 PM EST by Snake_driver]
Sorry, I couldn't resist. Uncle Mike's makes sling rigs for lever guns for under $20.







IMO having a rifle and a pistol that uses a single caliber has some great advanatges in a survival situation. The one above is in .357 Mag. and complements my S & W Model 28 in the same caliber. BTW I also have a .30-30.
Arrow Left Previous
Page / 2
Top