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batmanacw
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Posted: 1/11/2011 9:58:04 PM
[Last Edit: 1/12/2011 9:15:40 PM by batmanacw]

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
I would really like to buy a very high quality Kerosene heater. My sister has one that doesn't seem to stink much, but I haven't been around it much. I have 2 dyno glo's that are okay, but way to stinky for inside the house use. I can use them in an emergency, but I would much, much rather run the two Buddy heaters on propane.

Aren't there brands or types that reburn or catalyze the fumes?

What brands should I be looking at? I would like to stick with the round versions if possible.

My amish friend told me about a K-1 that costs $5 a gallon and burns super clean. In this instance, I am not using it for regular heat so cost is not an issue. I want something that I can use and not gag.
whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: Matthew 7:12
temptf8
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Posted: 1/11/2011 10:26:54 PM
You might try www.endtimesreport.com. They seem to have a bunch of info on kerosene heaters,stoves, and lamps.
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Posted: 1/11/2011 10:34:12 PM
[Last Edit: 1/11/2011 10:41:48 PM by EXPY37]
Toyotomi Double Clean.

But you better have a FAT wallet. They come up on ebay now and again.

http://www.toyotomi.jp/english/products/kerosene_h/double.html

Note these are available retail in JAPAN. You can thank our stupid populace and the lawyers for them not being sold new here.

But search Toyotomi on ebay and you will find one used, some are very nice.

Not this one...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Robeson-Kleen-Burn-II-Double-Clean-Kerosene-Heater-TOYO-/380300958500?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588bb41b24
EXPY37
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Posted: 1/11/2011 10:43:17 PM
[Last Edit: 1/11/2011 10:44:26 PM by EXPY37]
hthttp://www.toyotomi.jp/english/products/kerosene_h/index.htmltp://

Note the Kero Sun cooker at the bottom of page.
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Posted: 1/12/2011 8:57:57 PM
UPDATE!!!

I talked to an Amish friend a while ago about what he used in his oil lamps and lanterns. He told me he just bought some very expensive Kerosene that burns very, very clean in his lamps. He said it burn cleaner than anything he ever tried in his Kerosene heater. It cost him $5 a gallon so it was not cheap at all. He said you could burn a flame twice as high as normal in an oil lamp with no smoke.

Regular pump grade Kerosene in this area costs $3.69 in this area and it burns so damn stinky I cannot use it at all. Having an option that works that does not stink to high heaven is what I have been looking for. Honestly, when I was a kid, we burned kerosene in a little heater for months at a time and it never stunk much at all. There is a hell of a difference between K-1 now and then.

My friend graciously agreed to let me buy 5 gallons off of him. I wanted to give him an extra dollar a gallon for his trouble, but he would not hear of it. (I slipped him a couple extra bucks in the dark ) I noticed while we were pouring it that it had almost no smell. The top of the barrel had the word Kensol-30 in big letters on it.

I did not look up Kensol-30 on google until after I put it into my dyna glo kerosene heater and fired it up. Unbelievable. No smell. Nothing. Not a hint of burning anything. It is burning as brightly as I have ever seen it and cleaner than any K-1 I have ever seen.

Kensol-30 is described by the American Refining Group as regular mineral spirits.

TJ has mentioned burning mineral spirits a long time ago if my memory serves me right. Unless you guys can come up with a down side I will be buying a barrel of this stuff next month . I am so happy I can finally use my kerosene heaters in the house. Well, one of them since its enough to keep the house livable by itself.
whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: Matthew 7:12
Ops
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Posted: 1/12/2011 9:13:55 PM
Mineral spirits are derived from coal, and was commonly called "coal oil" back home. It's now called 'deodorized mineral spirits" and is available at any hardware store.

The old K1 was odorless, the new stuff smells like refinery waste.

Ops
APOCALYPSE NOW!!

we're ready....
propguy
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Posted: 1/12/2011 9:35:32 PM
[Last Edit: 1/12/2011 9:37:51 PM by propguy]
Batman ,....................


I would look real close at that. I am not sure but it looks like paint thinner?



""

http://www.amref.com/Products/Kensol-Naphthas.aspx

http://snipurl.com/1tsp8p
batmanacw
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Posted: 1/12/2011 9:44:49 PM
[Last Edit: 1/12/2011 9:46:51 PM by batmanacw]
Originally Posted By propguy:
Batman ,....................


I would look real close at that. I am not sure but it looks like paint thinner?



""

http://www.amref.com/Products/Kensol-Naphthas.aspx

http://snipurl.com/1tsp8p


Kensol 30 is regular mineral spirits according the link, which is the exact same website I looked it up on. It is used as paint thinner, but the words paint thinner cover a lot more than just one thing.

This stuff does not smell much at all. Its hard to smell when pouring. Paint thinner you buy at the store smells awful.

I am going to warn my Amish friend about the low flash point when I go up to the farm to work out. It would be a good idea for him not to use it once the temperatures get really, really hot. I only need it in the winter to heat the house and for lighting on occasion.
whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: Matthew 7:12
propguy
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Posted: 1/12/2011 9:50:29 PM
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By propguy:
Batman ,....................


I would look real close at that. I am not sure but it looks like paint thinner?



""

http://www.amref.com/Products/Kensol-Naphthas.aspx

http://snipurl.com/1tsp8p


Kensol 30 is regular mineral spirits according the link, which is the exact same website I looked it up on. It is used as paint thinner, but the words paint thinner cover a lot more than just one thing.

This stuff does not smell much at all. Its hard to smell when pouring. Paint thinner you buy at the store smells awful.


Awesome let me know if it works, I would also check the flash points etc............If it works I'll take 50 gal.
propguy
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Posted: 1/12/2011 9:51:41 PM
Great minds and junk ya got me on the edit
batmanacw
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Posted: 1/12/2011 9:52:19 PM
Originally Posted By propguy:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By propguy:
Batman ,....................


I would look real close at that. I am not sure but it looks like paint thinner?



""

http://www.amref.com/Products/Kensol-Naphthas.aspx

http://snipurl.com/1tsp8p


Kensol 30 is regular mineral spirits according the link, which is the exact same website I looked it up on. It is used as paint thinner, but the words paint thinner cover a lot more than just one thing.

This stuff does not smell much at all. Its hard to smell when pouring. Paint thinner you buy at the store smells awful.


Awesome let me know if it works, I would also check the flash points etc............If it works I'll take 50 gal.


The flash point in the specs on that website is 105*. Pretty low. I am going to have to pay attention to it. I will check the specs from the company that is selling it to be sure.
whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: Matthew 7:12
TomJefferson
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Posted: 1/12/2011 9:52:32 PM
[Last Edit: 1/12/2011 9:58:40 PM by TomJefferson]
Yes, Old timers have been using mineral spirits in lamps for well a 100 years and then somne, however if you ever watched the old westerns where the cowboy throws the lantern then it explodes setting the cabin on fire, THAT's MINERAL SPIRITS or as Ops posted coal oil. Yes, mineral spirits is better known as "Paint Thinner".

Its specific gravity is 80 or slightly under, so way less than kerosene or even liquid paraffin, its flash point is 110 degrees compared to 150 of kerosene and a good 15 degees below lantern manufacturer recommendations. and last but not least despite its smell is much better, it gives off way more actual noxious fumes.

I have many fuels I keep around for multiple jobs and tasks including mineral spirits, better known as paint thinner, but its not a first choice for a lantern and definitely not a heater. If I did use it or when I do, I do so outdoors only and where I hold liquid paraffin to a maximum 5/8ths flat wick, I hold mineral spirits to a maximum 1/2" flat wick. That's due to that lower specific gravity.

You have way more potential of fires or kabooms with mineral spirits. Because of that low flash point and specific gravity, you have way more fumes so more potential for kaboom especially if you don't vent well before lighting and knock the lamp/stove over burning your house down. Where a match will barely light kerosene, paint thinner is just a hair less volatile than gasoline. Though the smell is really low or even pleasant, if you have a breathing problem, you will be short of breath from the fumes in no time. The way it feels and leaves a taste over night reminds me of the old Coleman fuel heaters which were taken off the market for all the reasons I've posted in this post.

Yes when discussing alternate fuels, historically one should not leave mineral spirits out of the discussion but really its not the best choice especially from a safety standpoint.

If you bought some, I'd research the manufacturer rated specific gravity and flash point. Lower than 85 and flash point lower than 124, I'd set it back for emergency use only or outdoor use.

Watch those old westerns where they burn barns and houses down with lanterns or cans of coal oil. Movies where the lamp gets knocked over and the house goes up in flames. That's really not Hollywood magic but actual mineral spirits in those lanterns and cans.

Tj
"We prepare so we don't have to go to the Superdome!"
batmanacw
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Posted: 1/12/2011 9:58:40 PM
[Last Edit: 1/12/2011 10:06:08 PM by batmanacw]
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Yes, Old timers have been using mineral spirits in lamps for well a 100 years and then somne, however if you ever watched the old westerns where the cowboy throws the lantern then it explodes setting the cabin on fire, THAT's MINERAL SPIRITS or as Ops posted coal oil. Yes, mineral spirits is better known as "Paint Thinner".

Its specific gravity is 80 or slightly under, so way less than kerosene or even liquid paraffin, its flash point is 110 degrees compared to 150 of kerosene and a good 15 degees below lantern manufacturer recommendations. and last but not least despite its smell is much better, it gives off way more actual noxious fumes.

I have many fuels I keep around for multiple jobs and tasks including mineral spirits, better known as paint thinner, but its not a first choice for a lantern and definitely not a heater. If I did use it or when I do, I do so outdoors only and where I hold liquid paraffin to a maximum 5/8ths flat wick, I hold mineral spirits to a maximum 1/2" flat wick. That's due to that lower specific gravity.

You have way more potential of fires or kabooms with mineral spirits. Because of that low flash point and specific gravity, you have way more fumes so more potential for kaboom especially if you don't vent well before lighting and knock the lamp/stove over burning your house down. Where a match will barely light kerosene, paint thinner is just a hair less volatile than gasoline. Though the smell is really low or even pleasant, if you have a breathing problem, you will be short of breath from the fumes in no time. The way it feels and leaves a taste over night reminds me of the old Coleman fuel heaters which were taken off the market for all the reasons I've posted in this post.

Yes when discussing alternate fuels, historically one should not leave mineral spirits out of the discussion but really its not the best choice especially from a safety standpoint.

If you bought some, I'd research the manufacturer rated specific gravity and flash point. Lower than 85 and flash point lower than 124, I'd set it back for emergency use only or outdoor use.

Tj


American Refining specifications

This gives a gravity of 50 to 52, but I am not sure its the same specification you are talking about.


it is interesting that Amish people have been using this for a long, long time with good results. Not saying you are wrong by any means. I just want to clearly understand the down side since the up side has been huge.



just to clear things up. This is very low odor mineral spirits. This is not the crap you buy at walmart to clean your paint brushes. Not even close in the odor.


Wikipedia has the flash point of kerosene at 100 to 150 degrees. Not sure why the huge variance.
whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: Matthew 7:12
TomJefferson
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Posted: 1/12/2011 10:05:50 PM
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Yes, Old timers have been using mineral spirits in lamps for well a 100 years and then somne, however if you ever watched the old westerns where the cowboy throws the lantern then it explodes setting the cabin on fire, THAT's MINERAL SPIRITS or as Ops posted coal oil. Yes, mineral spirits is better known as "Paint Thinner".

Its specific gravity is 80 or slightly under, so way less than kerosene or even liquid paraffin, its flash point is 110 degrees compared to 150 of kerosene and a good 15 degees below lantern manufacturer recommendations. and last but not least despite its smell is much better, it gives off way more actual noxious fumes.

I have many fuels I keep around for multiple jobs and tasks including mineral spirits, better known as paint thinner, but its not a first choice for a lantern and definitely not a heater. If I did use it or when I do, I do so outdoors only and where I hold liquid paraffin to a maximum 5/8ths flat wick, I hold mineral spirits to a maximum 1/2" flat wick. That's due to that lower specific gravity.

You have way more potential of fires or kabooms with mineral spirits. Because of that low flash point and specific gravity, you have way more fumes so more potential for kaboom especially if you don't vent well before lighting and knock the lamp/stove over burning your house down. Where a match will barely light kerosene, paint thinner is just a hair less volatile than gasoline. Though the smell is really low or even pleasant, if you have a breathing problem, you will be short of breath from the fumes in no time. The way it feels and leaves a taste over night reminds me of the old Coleman fuel heaters which were taken off the market for all the reasons I've posted in this post.

Yes when discussing alternate fuels, historically one should not leave mineral spirits out of the discussion but really its not the best choice especially from a safety standpoint.

If you bought some, I'd research the manufacturer rated specific gravity and flash point. Lower than 85 and flash point lower than 124, I'd set it back for emergency use only or outdoor use.

Tj


American Refining specifications

This gives a gravity of 50 to 52, but I am not sure its the same specification you are talking about.


it is interesting that Amish people have been using this for a long, long time with good results. Not saying you are wrong by any means. I just want to clearly understand the down side since the up side has been huge.


If that's what you have, that's really not even mineral spirits but NAPTHA basically Coleman fuel. Way way bad in wick lamps and heaters, major potential for kaboom. That specific gravity extremely lower and flash point 105 degrees way lower than classic paint thinner.

Classic mineral spirits is around 79/80 at 60 degrees and a flash point of 110 to 115 degrees. You get lower than that, you are more into the Naphtha category.

Just as a side bar, that would probably make one very fair cook stove fuel. Lamp, lantern, or kerosene heater, nope way to light and too low a flash point.

If somebody is burning that, they've either been very lucky, very careful, or you got your specs mixed up.

Tj
"We prepare so we don't have to go to the Superdome!"
batmanacw
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Posted: 1/12/2011 10:09:20 PM
[Last Edit: 1/12/2011 10:23:49 PM by batmanacw]
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Yes, Old timers have been using mineral spirits in lamps for well a 100 years and then somne, however if you ever watched the old westerns where the cowboy throws the lantern then it explodes setting the cabin on fire, THAT's MINERAL SPIRITS or as Ops posted coal oil. Yes, mineral spirits is better known as "Paint Thinner".

Its specific gravity is 80 or slightly under, so way less than kerosene or even liquid paraffin, its flash point is 110 degrees compared to 150 of kerosene and a good 15 degees below lantern manufacturer recommendations. and last but not least despite its smell is much better, it gives off way more actual noxious fumes.

I have many fuels I keep around for multiple jobs and tasks including mineral spirits, better known as paint thinner, but its not a first choice for a lantern and definitely not a heater. If I did use it or when I do, I do so outdoors only and where I hold liquid paraffin to a maximum 5/8ths flat wick, I hold mineral spirits to a maximum 1/2" flat wick. That's due to that lower specific gravity.

You have way more potential of fires or kabooms with mineral spirits. Because of that low flash point and specific gravity, you have way more fumes so more potential for kaboom especially if you don't vent well before lighting and knock the lamp/stove over burning your house down. Where a match will barely light kerosene, paint thinner is just a hair less volatile than gasoline. Though the smell is really low or even pleasant, if you have a breathing problem, you will be short of breath from the fumes in no time. The way it feels and leaves a taste over night reminds me of the old Coleman fuel heaters which were taken off the market for all the reasons I've posted in this post.

Yes when discussing alternate fuels, historically one should not leave mineral spirits out of the discussion but really its not the best choice especially from a safety standpoint.

If you bought some, I'd research the manufacturer rated specific gravity and flash point. Lower than 85 and flash point lower than 124, I'd set it back for emergency use only or outdoor use.

Tj


American Refining specifications

This gives a gravity of 50 to 52, but I am not sure its the same specification you are talking about.


it is interesting that Amish people have been using this for a long, long time with good results. Not saying you are wrong by any means. I just want to clearly understand the down side since the up side has been huge.


If that's what you have, that's really not even mineral spirits but NAPTHA basically Coleman fuel. Way way bad in wick lamps and heaters, major potential for kaboom. That specific gravity extremely lower and flash point 105 degrees way lower than classic paint thinner.

Classic mineral spirits is around 79/80 at 60 degrees and a flash point of 110 to 115 degrees. You get lower than that, you are more into the Naphtha category.

Just as a side bar, that would probably make one very fair cook stove fuel. Lamp, lantern, or kerosene heater, nope way to light and too low a flash point.

If somebody is burning that, they've either been very lucky, very careful, or you got your specs mixed up.

Tj


The Kensol 10 is supposed to be white gas and a gravity of 68. I can't tell you what is up with that. Apparently there are lots of very lucky people around.


They are also calling it Stoddard Solvent if that means anything to you.



ETA: the specific gravity is 77 with a 105* flash point. Right now the only draw back is the low minimum flash point. Its pretty darn close to 80 SG.
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TomJefferson
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Posted: 1/12/2011 10:14:21 PM
[Last Edit: 1/12/2011 10:19:23 PM by TomJefferson]
BTW, as an adder to this topic.

You put the same effort you did in learning those lamps you have into your kerosene heater, you'll cut that fume smell way way down.

Its a matter of understanding that cage needs to be hot to work and that flame height not maximum but nice and even.

Hints on limiting fumes are light it outdoors but remember to wait till that cage gets real hot, up to temperature, before you move it indoors.

Once you light a heater, keep it lit, fuel it in place flame going. Fill to the gauge not sight so you don't over fill as the syphon drains the tube. Hold a rag over the tip as you remove the shypon from the stove.

Once you find your spot on that wick, don't mess with it. Every time you adjust the wick, it creates fumes.

I actually get more fume smells from my lanterns and lamps than my kerosene heaters, which is why I'm such a liquid paraffin fan.

You'll get it. Just stay on it and use the same analytical thinking you did on those lamps you have. I didn't post much in that thread because you were getting there just fine on your own.

Tj
"We prepare so we don't have to go to the Superdome!"
TomJefferson
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Posted: 1/12/2011 10:16:42 PM
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
snip

The Kensol 10 is supposed to be white gas and a gravity of 68. I can't tell you what is up with that. Apparently there are lots of very lucky people around.


They are also calling it Stoddard Solvent if that means anything to you.


Yes exactly, Naptha is white gas.

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EXPY37
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Posted: 1/12/2011 10:30:22 PM
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Yes, Old timers have been using mineral spirits in lamps for well a 100 years and then somne, however if you ever watched the old westerns where the cowboy throws the lantern then it explodes setting the cabin on fire, THAT's MINERAL SPIRITS or as Ops posted coal oil. Yes, mineral spirits is better known as "Paint Thinner".

Its specific gravity is 80 or slightly under, so way less than kerosene or even liquid paraffin, its flash point is 110 degrees compared to 150 of kerosene and a good 15 degees below lantern manufacturer recommendations. and last but not least despite its smell is much better, it gives off way more actual noxious fumes.

I have many fuels I keep around for multiple jobs and tasks including mineral spirits, better known as paint thinner, but its not a first choice for a lantern and definitely not a heater. If I did use it or when I do, I do so outdoors only and where I hold liquid paraffin to a maximum 5/8ths flat wick, I hold mineral spirits to a maximum 1/2" flat wick. That's due to that lower specific gravity.

You have way more potential of fires or kabooms with mineral spirits. Because of that low flash point and specific gravity, you have way more fumes so more potential for kaboom especially if you don't vent well before lighting and knock the lamp/stove over burning your house down. Where a match will barely light kerosene, paint thinner is just a hair less volatile than gasoline. Though the smell is really low or even pleasant, if you have a breathing problem, you will be short of breath from the fumes in no time. The way it feels and leaves a taste over night reminds me of the old Coleman fuel heaters which were taken off the market for all the reasons I've posted in this post.

Yes when discussing alternate fuels, historically one should not leave mineral spirits out of the discussion but really its not the best choice especially from a safety standpoint.

If you bought some, I'd research the manufacturer rated specific gravity and flash point. Lower than 85 and flash point lower than 124, I'd set it back for emergency use only or outdoor use.

Tj


American Refining specifications

This gives a gravity of 50 to 52, but I am not sure its the same specification you are talking about.


it is interesting that Amish people have been using this for a long, long time with good results. Not saying you are wrong by any means. I just want to clearly understand the down side since the up side has been huge.


If that's what you have, that's really not even mineral spirits but NAPTHA basically Coleman fuel. Way way bad in wick lamps and heaters, major potential for kaboom. That specific gravity extremely lower and flash point 105 degrees way lower than classic paint thinner.

Classic mineral spirits is around 79/80 at 60 degrees and a flash point of 110 to 115 degrees. You get lower than that, you are more into the Naphtha category.

Just as a side bar, that would probably make one very fair cook stove fuel. Lamp, lantern, or kerosene heater, nope way to light and too low a flash point.

If somebody is burning that, they've either been very lucky, very careful, or you got your specs mixed up.

Tj


The Kensol 10 is supposed to be white gas and a gravity of 68. I can't tell you what is up with that. Apparently there are lots of very lucky people around.


They are also calling it Stoddard Solvent if that means anything to you.



ETA: the specific gravity is 77 with a 105* flash point. Right now the only draw back is the low minimum flash point. Its pretty darn close to 80 SG.


I looked up and posted the MSDS link for Stabil abt a year ago and the main ingredient was Stoddard Solvent.

batmanacw
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Posted: 1/12/2011 10:32:39 PM
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
BTW, as an adder to this topic.

You put the same effort you did in learning those lamps you have into your kerosene heater, you'll cut that fume smell way way down.

Its a matter of understanding that cage needs to be hot to work and that flame height not maximum but nice and even.

Hints on limiting fumes are light it outdoors but remember to wait till that cage gets real hot, up to temperature, before you move it indoors.

Once you light a heater, keep it lit, fuel it in place flame going. Fill to the gauge not sight so you don't over fill as the syphon drains the tube. Hold a rag over the tip as you remove the shypon from the stove.

Once you find your spot on that wick, don't mess with it. Every time you adjust the wick, it creates fumes.

I actually get more fume smells from my lanterns and lamps than my kerosene heaters, which is why I'm such a liquid paraffin fan.

You'll get it. Just stay on it and use the same analytical thinking you did on those lamps you have. I didn't post much in that thread because you were getting there just fine on your own.

Tj


I fought with my 3 kerosene heaters for years. Nothing would really make them run well. Lighting them outside with the quality of kerosene we have here has been totally unsuccessful. They just plain stink, even after they are quite hot. I quit using them at our machine shops because of the head aches that they caused.
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Posted: 1/12/2011 10:36:34 PM
[Last Edit: 1/12/2011 10:41:01 PM by TomJefferson]
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Yes, Old timers have been using mineral spirits in lamps for well a 100 years and then somne, however if you ever watched the old westerns where the cowboy throws the lantern then it explodes setting the cabin on fire, THAT's MINERAL SPIRITS or as Ops posted coal oil. Yes, mineral spirits is better known as "Paint Thinner".

Its specific gravity is 80 or slightly under, so way less than kerosene or even liquid paraffin, its flash point is 110 degrees compared to 150 of kerosene and a good 15 degees below lantern manufacturer recommendations. and last but not least despite its smell is much better, it gives off way more actual noxious fumes.

I have many fuels I keep around for multiple jobs and tasks including mineral spirits, better known as paint thinner, but its not a first choice for a lantern and definitely not a heater. If I did use it or when I do, I do so outdoors only and where I hold liquid paraffin to a maximum 5/8ths flat wick, I hold mineral spirits to a maximum 1/2" flat wick. That's due to that lower specific gravity.

You have way more potential of fires or kabooms with mineral spirits. Because of that low flash point and specific gravity, you have way more fumes so more potential for kaboom especially if you don't vent well before lighting and knock the lamp/stove over burning your house down. Where a match will barely light kerosene, paint thinner is just a hair less volatile than gasoline. Though the smell is really low or even pleasant, if you have a breathing problem, you will be short of breath from the fumes in no time. The way it feels and leaves a taste over night reminds me of the old Coleman fuel heaters which were taken off the market for all the reasons I've posted in this post.

Yes when discussing alternate fuels, historically one should not leave mineral spirits out of the discussion but really its not the best choice especially from a safety standpoint.

If you bought some, I'd research the manufacturer rated specific gravity and flash point. Lower than 85 and flash point lower than 124, I'd set it back for emergency use only or outdoor use.

Tj


American Refining specifications

This gives a gravity of 50 to 52, but I am not sure its the same specification you are talking about.


it is interesting that Amish people have been using this for a long, long time with good results. Not saying you are wrong by any means. I just want to clearly understand the down side since the up side has been huge.


If that's what you have, that's really not even mineral spirits but NAPTHA basically Coleman fuel. Way way bad in wick lamps and heaters, major potential for kaboom. That specific gravity extremely lower and flash point 105 degrees way lower than classic paint thinner.

Classic mineral spirits is around 79/80 at 60 degrees and a flash point of 110 to 115 degrees. You get lower than that, you are more into the Naphtha category.

Just as a side bar, that would probably make one very fair cook stove fuel. Lamp, lantern, or kerosene heater, nope way to light and too low a flash point.

If somebody is burning that, they've either been very lucky, very careful, or you got your specs mixed up.

Tj


The Kensol 10 is supposed to be white gas and a gravity of 68. I can't tell you what is up with that. Apparently there are lots of very lucky people around.


They are also calling it Stoddard Solvent if that means anything to you.



ETA: the specific gravity is 77 with a 105* flash point. Right now the only draw back is the low minimum flash point. Its pretty darn close to 80 SG.


If those are the actual numbers, yes its a light mineral spirit. Typical would be a specific gravity of 79.

Its still a problem as far as being the ideal fuel for lamps or lanterns and me personally would never put it in kerosene heater unless the heater was specifically designed for it.

The concern I have is exactly the old westerns and the issues they had. They're a Molotov Cocktail burning in your house. It was most likely what was in Mrs. O'Leary's lantern the cow kicked over and burned Chicago to the ground.

BTW, Its going to be cold here tonight so were burning two lamps right now as I type this.

BTW2, makes one hell of a charcoal lighter fluid. Its a great solvent that's a good replacement for both turpentine and gas. I keep a couple gallons around all the time.

Tj

"We prepare so we don't have to go to the Superdome!"
batmanacw
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Posted: 1/12/2011 10:45:10 PM
[Last Edit: 1/12/2011 10:55:55 PM by batmanacw]
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Yes, Old timers have been using mineral spirits in lamps for well a 100 years and then somne, however if you ever watched the old westerns where the cowboy throws the lantern then it explodes setting the cabin on fire, THAT's MINERAL SPIRITS or as Ops posted coal oil. Yes, mineral spirits is better known as "Paint Thinner".

Its specific gravity is 80 or slightly under, so way less than kerosene or even liquid paraffin, its flash point is 110 degrees compared to 150 of kerosene and a good 15 degees below lantern manufacturer recommendations. and last but not least despite its smell is much better, it gives off way more actual noxious fumes.

I have many fuels I keep around for multiple jobs and tasks including mineral spirits, better known as paint thinner, but its not a first choice for a lantern and definitely not a heater. If I did use it or when I do, I do so outdoors only and where I hold liquid paraffin to a maximum 5/8ths flat wick, I hold mineral spirits to a maximum 1/2" flat wick. That's due to that lower specific gravity.

You have way more potential of fires or kabooms with mineral spirits. Because of that low flash point and specific gravity, you have way more fumes so more potential for kaboom especially if you don't vent well before lighting and knock the lamp/stove over burning your house down. Where a match will barely light kerosene, paint thinner is just a hair less volatile than gasoline. Though the smell is really low or even pleasant, if you have a breathing problem, you will be short of breath from the fumes in no time. The way it feels and leaves a taste over night reminds me of the old Coleman fuel heaters which were taken off the market for all the reasons I've posted in this post.

Yes when discussing alternate fuels, historically one should not leave mineral spirits out of the discussion but really its not the best choice especially from a safety standpoint.

If you bought some, I'd research the manufacturer rated specific gravity and flash point. Lower than 85 and flash point lower than 124, I'd set it back for emergency use only or outdoor use.

Tj


American Refining specifications

This gives a gravity of 50 to 52, but I am not sure its the same specification you are talking about.


it is interesting that Amish people have been using this for a long, long time with good results. Not saying you are wrong by any means. I just want to clearly understand the down side since the up side has been huge.


If that's what you have, that's really not even mineral spirits but NAPTHA basically Coleman fuel. Way way bad in wick lamps and heaters, major potential for kaboom. That specific gravity extremely lower and flash point 105 degrees way lower than classic paint thinner.

Classic mineral spirits is around 79/80 at 60 degrees and a flash point of 110 to 115 degrees. You get lower than that, you are more into the Naphtha category.

Just as a side bar, that would probably make one very fair cook stove fuel. Lamp, lantern, or kerosene heater, nope way to light and too low a flash point.

If somebody is burning that, they've either been very lucky, very careful, or you got your specs mixed up.

Tj


The Kensol 10 is supposed to be white gas and a gravity of 68. I can't tell you what is up with that. Apparently there are lots of very lucky people around.


They are also calling it Stoddard Solvent if that means anything to you.



ETA: the specific gravity is 77 with a 105* flash point. Right now the only draw back is the low minimum flash point. Its pretty darn close to 80 SG.


If those are the actual numbers, yes its a light mineral spirit. Typical would be a specific gravity of 79.

Its still a problem as far as being the ideal fuel for lamps or lanterns and me personally would never put it in kerosene heater unless the heater was specifically designed for it.

The concern I have is exactly the old westerns and the issues they had. They're a Molotov Cocktail burning in your house. It was most likely what was in Mrs. O'Leary's lantern the cow kicked over and burned Chicago to the ground.

BTW, Its going to be cold here tonight so were burning two lamps right now as I type this.

BTW2, makes one hell of a charcoal lighter fluid. Its a great solvent that's a good replacement for both turpentine and gas. I keep a couple gallons around all the time.

Tj



You have given me a lot to think about. I respect your opinion on this.

I am going to do some more testing with it and let my Amish friend know about the risks. I will most likely do some more run tests with the heater in the detached garage or the machine shop under close supervision.

Knowing the risks is a big part of making an informed decision. I really appreciate this place. I may end up using this fuel even with the risks. Being aware of them is really the biggest part of staying safe.
whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: Matthew 7:12
KJB
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Posted: 1/12/2011 10:58:05 PM
I have had similar questions regarding Mineral Spirits. Take a look at these threads and links as well:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=642085

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=641932

batmanacw
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Posted: 1/12/2011 11:08:04 PM
Originally Posted By KJB:
I have had similar questions regarding Mineral Spirits. Take a look at these threads and links as well:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=642085

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=641932



Some of the links in those threads indicate the Kerosene has a flash point of 100 degrees, which is higher than that of the Mineral spirits. The specific gravity is fairly close as well.

I can see why the worry about using it indoors. I will have to do some research on using mineral thinner in kerosene heaters.
whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: Matthew 7:12
HomeSlice
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Posted: 1/12/2011 11:08:13 PM

Originally Posted By batmanacw:

You have given me a lot to think about. I respect your opinion on this.

I am going to do some more testing with it and let my Amish friend know about the risks. I will most likely do some more run tests with the heater in the detached garage or the machine shop under close supervision.

Knowing the risks is a big part of making an informed decision. I really appreciate this place. I may end up using this fuel even with the risks. Being aware of them is really the biggest part of staying safe.

Hey batman,

Is it possible your friend was reusing an old barrel, and had something in it other than what the barrel was labeled? IIRC, your post said what you saw on the barrel, but you did mention that he specifically told you it was kerosene. Just a thought, being the safety minded type that I am...

-Slice


Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

"Yes, I know they stink -well, they eat rancid cow bungholes, what do you expect? " -FordGuy
batmanacw
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Posted: 1/12/2011 11:40:36 PM
[Last Edit: 1/12/2011 11:41:13 PM by batmanacw]
Originally Posted By HomeSlice:

Originally Posted By batmanacw:

You have given me a lot to think about. I respect your opinion on this.

I am going to do some more testing with it and let my Amish friend know about the risks. I will most likely do some more run tests with the heater in the detached garage or the machine shop under close supervision.

Knowing the risks is a big part of making an informed decision. I really appreciate this place. I may end up using this fuel even with the risks. Being aware of them is really the biggest part of staying safe.

Hey batman,

Is it possible your friend was reusing an old barrel, and had something in it other than what the barrel was labeled? IIRC, your post said what you saw on the barrel, but you did mention that he specifically told you it was kerosene. Just a thought, being the safety minded type that I am...

-Slice




He told me his last barrel had that on it as well. It has no kerosene smell at all. Almost no smell period. The company charges an extra $20 if you don't bring back the barrel, so that is a must!


I am going to do some experimenting in the next couple days. I want to see if the fuel temperature rises as the heater gets warmed up. If the flash point of kerosene can be as low as 100 degrees, then I am not so sure that I need to worry about it too much.
whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: Matthew 7:12
shooter_gregg
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Posted: 1/13/2011 2:37:18 AM
Has any one tried jet-a fuel? I have been told it is highly refined and clean kerosene. It is about the same price as kero around here. Jets have to have CLEAN fuel since they can't pull over if a filter gets clogged. Just wondering.
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