Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
It's a trick. Get an axe.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2004
  • Posts 14013
  • EE 100% (6)
USA FL, USA
Posted: 8/21/2010 5:30:56 AM EST


Prepper or survivalist?


Over the last 5 years there has been this influx of people that are becoming more prepared. They come from all walks of life, ages,gender and locations.Each one different in its own way, but still the same. There has in my view been a rift though. With this new surge of people that are becoming prepared is a cross section that wished to not be labeled what they are, A survivalist. Thus, a few years later we have the "prepper". If you ask someone what one is you may get a few different twist on what a prepper is. In general they prepare. But the thing that separates them for a survivalist, at least in their eyes is that the prepper is a "normal" person. This "normal" person stocks food,medical supplies, weapons,ammo, and other gear and supplies needed to "survive" any event that happens. To them these stockpiles ,along with their mindset, will be used to survive bad weather, job loss, work injury,economic hard times and if it ever goes down a real "shtf" event. Of course since they are "normal" everyday types, they of course do not dwell on world ending events, and doom and gloom end all fantasy's that would rival mad max's world. According to the "prepper" that part of preparedness is left to the "survivalist".Most preppers view, the "survivalist" as some crazy person waiting,wishing,hoping the world will come crashing to an apocalyptic end. Now, some "prepper" somewhere is getting a little annoyed by what i wrote so far. Good.

If you ask a "survivalist" what he or she is you may get the same answer. That they are everyday people preparing for what ever may happen and making key lifestyle changes to help be prepared better. Odd is it not? That two different groups say the same stuff except for one key thing? This
is why i never fully understood the reasoning behind why the "prepper" movement started. At the same time I can see what has driven it. From the mid 1980's and on, the media has done all it could to vilify the term "survivalist". Those that remember the 1990's , it seems that every time
something bad happened the bad guy was a " skin head,druggie,survivalist with kiddie porn". For a few years nothing happened,until 9/11. Then a surge of folks who, by fear started to prep. This was short lived though. With in that to the first year after 9/11 those that "prep'd" sold their supplies or went back to "normal" life, when a second attack did not happen.Some stayed the course and reaped the benefits of it ( I scored 14 NBC filters and 3 NIW m40 mask(s,m,L, perfect family kit), with spare lenses,second skins,decon kits and bags for 100$ )from someone who panic buyed.Fast forward to Katrina, and then the past election. These last two events are the ones that were the "gas" to the prepper fire in my opinion.

So why the split. Well these new comers to "survival" feel , at least from i can tell from personal face to face talks and news articles, that a new term was needed. They felt that they are "not" what the media has labeled a "survivalist". I can clearly say that now, after meeting so many the last 2 years. That they are ,in fact NOT what the survivalist of old was nor what the media has labeled it. In fact they are doing the medias dirty work for them by continuing to spread the negative stigmatism surrounding the word "survivalist". They are the high tide right now, and riding the wave. In 2-5 years like 9/11, Y2K etc many will go back to "normal" life. This will be easy for them from what i have seen. Of course like those events in the past , many will continue to prepare . That is what separates a "survivalist" from a "prepper" in my opinion. Why would it be easy for them to go back to what they deem "normal". Many i have seen refuse to invest much time or effort in to long term supplies or lifestyle changes . They cling to how life is now. That means more means of electronics, gen sets, and can goods. Many do not have more than , nor wish to prepare past the " 2 week" mark. They claim though that "mindset" not lifestyle change will help them pull through an event. Maybe, a short term event. What if it is a long
term event? Say an economic collapse that last 3-5 years? What will that "2 weeks" worth do? With such a drive to not be that "survivalist" they are short selling themselves because they feel that such events "cant" happen and thus do not prepare for it. Lifestyle change is a long term prep. Many
do not want to make that EFFORT. It is much easier to buy,list and talk about it. The influx of liberals into preparedness since the last election i think spurrs that mindset right along. That "everything" will be alright in 1 week to 2 months and someone will be along shortly to save us. Along with this is the idea to be something different. So many have this view that they can sit around the water cooler at work, or in line at starbucks sucking down a faggotchino, and strike up a conversation...

" So,,Klye, how are those freeze dried veal cutlets you order last week taste? try any yet"
"Well Bob, they arent like the ones over at Sabino's off 5th and taylor, but Alice thinks they are pretty good.."
up walks Tom
" Hey Bob,kyle, i over heard you, freeze dried veal? Why would you have that...your not one of those tea party survivalist types are you??."

and suddenly Kyle and Bob can explain that they are "preppers" and not to worry,becuase those are Kyles "hurricane preps" hence the term prepper and can show Tom, Bobs fancy solar back pack that charges his I-phone while he is walking his retriever in the AM and now Tom is all about being
prepared.But not after 10 minutes of complaining how they wasted their vote on obama.
Happens every day at your work place right? No? why not, it seems to be the main reason for the term "prepper" , you know be more "user" friendly and all. I guess if you kick someone in the nuts at half speed it makes it better than a lets put the boys through the uprights from the 45 yard line
kick! If your dumb enough to tell tom

" oh yeah that is part of my survival stash...yeah i am one..so what, screw you Tom....you sheep.. dont come to my place asking for a hand out....Ive

got guns and ammo to outfit a small African army and know how to use them you poser....."

Then you my friend have some serious issues you need work on!

So how many of you "preppers" are reeling in your chair right now. Yelling yet? Saying to your self that i am wrong?Prove me wrong, tell me what is the difference between a survivalist and a prepper then?
I will explain what i see as the main differences. So get ready to get even more upset.

There are many similarities between the two, and maybe like a butterfly they are the same, but in different stages of evolution..are preppers the missing link maybe? That would be the nice way of saying it, but then typing all of this wouldn't be that fun!
I think that the similarities stop at lifestyle and long term planning. Many "preppers" that i have met refuse to think past 2 months. That's fine. They are way ahead of the curve if an event happens. But like the show the colony,it seems effort is wasted more of projects to maintain their "old" life
verse the life they would have during an event. For example. Why, backpack for 3 days to test your kit when you know your truck is still going to work. Anyone miss that point? Why try, you have the pack,what some list off the web said to have, it is a good pack(least you think) and short of
emp your truck is a 2010 model , it will go for a few years as long as you have gas right? Oh you wont bug out. Why? I bet a tornado heading straight for you house will make your bug out,or a fire at 3am! Why get in shape, you have truck after all, why go off grid with solar or a grid tie . You cant have your 50 inch lcd TV on for 4 hours watching dual survival reruns. Why hunt, or harvest your own animals, and veggies, after all you can just buy freeze dried or keep it in your deep freezer ,you do have a genset after all and gas..but for how long.....

Preppers seem to over look those small details. They get so focused on the "small" picture of things vs the big picture. So how many of you are screaming " well i dont do that.." . Good. You may one day come out of your cocoon and be a butterfly and 5-10 years from now be typing like i am ,complaining how "PMI's"( preparedness minded individuals) are tearing apart the prepper movement all becuase after the 2012 election they got a bad name when a group of preppers got raided by the homeland secuirty forces. Mean while those dirty survivalist are still blogging about their solar systems and gardens over at PMIluvshtf.com or such...
prep,learn and grow. Dont let a title decide how or what you will prepare for, and dont let it ruin your outlook of others that are already "out of their cocoon" ;p

While this is a semi rant about some points that annoy me and not a comparison . for debate reasons tell me, tell us all,what separates the two? Are they 2 different things, or one in the same, is it like old and young....tad pole and frog...butterfly and cocoon..

www.survivalandpreparedness.com
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Posts 266
  • EE 0% (0)
USA GA, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 5:55:44 AM EST
I don't know if this is an answer to the question, but this is my personal observation and oppinion therfore not worth much.

People who call themselves preppers are more white collar/middle class types who don't feel comfortable with the survivalist title and the negative connotations that come with it created by the media and HollyWierd, but at the same time understand the need to be one.

America Bless God, Only He Can Help Us!!!
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Apr 2008
  • Posts 661
  • EE 100% (310)
USA TN, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 6:08:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 6:16:00 AM EST by amos1909]
I am prepping to be a survivalist! Just never can have enough of anything!! I want to be able to feed and arm my children's children!!! LOL

OP- I really liked your post and would agree with it. I really agree with the highlighted part.

prep,learn and grow. Dont let a title decide how or what you will prepare for, and dont let it ruin your outlook of others that are already "out of their cocoon"

protus- You did good in stating it the way you have!!!

Amos1909
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:21
It's a trick. Get an axe.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2004
  • Posts 14014
  • EE 100% (6)
USA FL, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 6:22:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fra_Tra:
I don't know if this is an answer to the question, but this is my personal observation and oppinion therfore not worth much.

People who call themselves preppers are more white collar/middle class types who don't feel comfortable with the survivalist title and the negative connotations that come with it created by the media and HollyWierd, but at the same time understand the need to be one.


no , that is the type of reply i was looking for.
That and ones like skunks over in FerFals poor is poor is dirt poor thread
hopefully he will post it here.

I honestly want those who call themselves a "P" to explain why they chose to be called that vs a survivalist. I find just the media reason a poor example sometimes. We havent renamed AK's and AR's yet have we or did i miss the memo LOL

Fra/Tra your example is one i have seen as well, glad you pointed it out.
www.survivalandpreparedness.com
Basic
Online
  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Posts 595
  • EE 0% (0)
USA VA, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 6:35:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 6:39:28 AM EST by donnieR32]
Interesting read.

From my point of view. I could give a shit less what someone "labels" me. I fit in my normal society activities. Now, throw me in the woods and I can find my way out. Do I have all the knowledge to build my own colony and survive without tools? NO. However, I am learning and reading and trying things everyday.

I would say the difference between a prepper and a survivalist is:

The prepper buys canned goods. The survivalist does as well, but knows how to hunt, clean, and prepare game.

The prepper talks about how he watches the "Colony" and "Dual Survival". The survivalist goes out and tries these things over the weekend. (Applying knowledge.) I look at a prepper like the gatherer and village cook. The survivalist is the one hunting, fighting, killing, building, sustaining. Men vs. Woman of colonial times.

I am not a full fledged survivalist, but I am working my way towards. To me, there is no point in just stocking resources unless you know how to find or create new resources.

Remember, this is my point of view and I still have to wear a suit to work everyday. While expanding my knowledge and physically training my body I have not lost touch with the possibility that "something" may never happen. So, I may not train and apply techniques for weeks on end because it is just not practical while remaining a functioning member in society.

ETA: a few more points.


Basic
Offline
  • Joined Jan 2006
  • Posts 825
  • EE 0% (0)
ARG ARG
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 6:39:29 AM EST
I’ve known “survivalists” (including survival experts) that don’t have even the slightest beginning of the concept of a clue of what true survival and success in life involves, some “Preppers” that are pretty well squared out some that are simply gear fags , and most of all, I’ve known people that don’t know what either one is but would not only survive, but actually strive in a world were both “survivalists” and “preppers” would piss their pants if they had to spend one night in such a place. No joking, no exaggeration, that’s my experience.
Survivalist and preppers are just words man. I often use then together, pick the one you feel fits you better.
As for doom and gloom and Mad Max delusions, even people that say “I can’t wait for TEOTWAWKI!” they still haven’t figured out how to make it during the good old times, they have not a snowball’s chance in hell when shit really hits the fan. Doom and gloom? No my friend, you have to be a peppy happy son of a bitch if you want to make it. Wrong mindset kills more people during tough times than bullets or hunger.

FerFAL

That's not a moon....that's a spacestation
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jul 2009
  • Posts 3039
  • EE 100% (1)
USA VA, USA
Instructor
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 6:46:14 AM EST
To those who say I'm a survivalist....ok....to those who say I'm a prepper.....ok....

I am preparing to survive.....well....if possible.

My question is.....what are you going to do when your daughter, son, wife, husband, etc.....looks to you for help.....and says "I'm hungry".

Are you the one that is going to show up at my door asking for a hand out?...or the one sneaking around my place at night looking to take what you need?

If you are...you need to realize that not only did I think ahead to set back food and supplies to see me through bad times.....but I also happen to set back the items I need to protect it.....and along with a few of my friends who thought to do the same....I wish you luck in finding a softer target.

I could personally care less what catagory "they" put me in.....I do this for me and my family.....not theres.

Is that too cold?...
That which does not kill me....only tries to kill me again.
The first SF shower pic
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2004
  • Posts 6161
  • EE 100% (1)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 7:00:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 6:54:12 PM EST by PA22-400]
I'm gonna get in on one here, but I'll have to return and read the thread.


ETA what I finally got to add on page 3

Originally Posted By PA22-400:
At least I got in on one but had to take care of other things.

IMHO
Prepper = guns are icky
Survivalist = I got into prepping to support my gun addiction.

Prepper = no Red Dawn in video collection
Survivalist = has Red Dawn on bluray, dvd, vhs, beta, the book, book on cd, book on cassette, and book on 8 track.

Prepper = has whatever gun they want
Survivalist = must have AR, AK, SKS, 308 bolt gun for those long shots, 9mm, 45, and 12ga pump; so they can use whatever ammo is available.

Prepper upsets Protus
Survivalist makes Protus feel good

I call myself a survivalist, but I don't really like Red Dawn or bolt guns, so I do not own them. Now Protus may be upset––'cause I don't have the required stuff to be a survivalist. Guess I'll have to be a prepper––oh wait Protus is now more upset––'cause I'm a prepper.








Ya'll let me know how this turns out.




Asking for opinions on the internet and then getting upset for getting them is like stirring up a hornets' nest and then getting pissed because you got stung.
Halffast: post 1725
herbicidal maniac
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Aug 2005
  • Posts 3071
  • EE 100% (143)
USA WA, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 7:09:23 AM EST
I agree with the prepper as one who stocks supplies vs a survivalist who actively engages. I think that the survivalist moniker has a negative connotation that has stuck with it since the 70's and 80's where people picture a survivalist as some Una-bomber type in a cabin in Montana. I think the term prepper takes that edge off and makes a serious conversation about preparedness issues approachable to most people.
There's a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness.


"this is ARFCOM you should be gearing up for Iwo Jima" oldschool63
America Bless God, Only He Can Help Us!!!
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Apr 2008
  • Posts 662
  • EE 100% (310)
USA TN, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 7:38:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 7:46:37 AM EST by amos1909]
I would call my self both! I prep for hard times and try to learn to survive the really hard times. I know that I am much more of a survivalist than prepper. I did fight cancer from the ages of 15-33, so I believe that a lot of my preparing for the worse comes from never knowing where the cancer would spread next! I do feel that this mind-set is what separates a prepper from a survivalist.

Prepper mind-set––- I will set aside a few things and hope nothing happens! If we have a Major (minor in a Survivalist mind set) problem, I can handle it...

Survivalist mind-set–self-sufficient––– I know something really bad is going to happen and I am willing to do anything to survive it! I will go camping, learn to track, shoot a lot and get as many guns and much ammo as possible! Wanting to survive in the future is a huge part of a survivalist life survivalist thinks, I will prepare as best I can for the worse and hope and pray that it is not that bad!! I will have a mind set of the worse EOTHAWKI situation. If it is not as bad as I thought it would be, then it will be easier than I thought to survive it!!!



When I had cancer, I would convince myself that the cancer had spread to many different organs and that if it had, I would still win the fight against the disease.. When the Doctor would inform me that it had only spread to 1 organ, it is weird to say, I was prepared for it and not knocked down by the news. You can even say that I was encouraged that it was not as bad as I had thought!!!

I will add more when I get more time!!

Amos1909
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:21
Just plain American
Avatar
Gold
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Posts 3509
  • EE 0% (0)
USA CA, USA
InstructorMilitary
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 7:46:26 AM EST
My thoughts:

PREPPER
A prepper is a survivor in the short term. They planned only for a single event, hurricane, earthquake, probably bought the ARK II kit or something like it. Maybe they have some extra food and batteries, but nothing really thought provoking. They think on only one level. They don't think ahead or plan for the worst case scenario. The last thing they want is their friends to think they are nuts, ie gun nut, survivalist nut etc. They may or may not have guns and ammo.

SURVIVALIST
By contrast to the prepper, lives the life. Prepares for everything, every eventuality. Nothing left to chance. Not a 3 day supply or a 2 week supply, but much much longer suuplies. Realizes the goverment can't really protect them, and does not want them to anyway. It is just not about hurricanes or earthquakes. It's about Food, water, gear, alternative power, guns, ammo, spare parts, tools and how to use them, and what's left after a system collapse. Its about skills, education, diversity. Lots of guns, lots of ammo, spare parts, accessories, night vision, uber-tacticool flashlights etc etc. It's about getting back to basics. If nothing happens, nothing is lost. Call it a mind set, The Grey tribe, Sheepdogs, whatever.

July 4th 1776 - Independence Day
March 21, 2010 - Dependence Day
Another day, another outrage.
Hold on to your ass America!




That's not a moon....that's a spacestation
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jul 2009
  • Posts 3041
  • EE 100% (1)
USA VA, USA
Instructor
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 7:51:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By Taft:
My thoughts:

PREPPER
A prepper is a survivor in the short term. They planned only for a single event, hurricane, earthquake, probably bought the ARK II kit or something like it. Maybe they have some extra food and batteries, but nothing really thought provoking. They think on only one level. They don't think ahead or plan for the worst case scenario. The last thing they want is their friends to think they are nuts, ie gun nut, survivalist nut etc. They may or may not have guns and ammo.

SURVIVALIST
By contrast to the prepper, lives the life. Prepares for everything, every eventuality. Nothing left to chance. Not a 3 day supply or a 2 week supply, but much much longer suuplies. Realizes the goverment can't really protect them, and does not want them to anyway. It is just not about hurricanes or earthquakes. It's about Food, water, gear, alternative power, guns, ammo, spare parts, tools and how to use them, and what's left after a system collapse. Its about skills, education, diversity. Lots of guns, lots of ammo, spare parts, accessories, night vision, uber-tacticool flashlights etc etc. It's about getting back to basics. If nothing happens, nothing is lost. Call it a mind set, The Grey tribe, Sheepdogs, whatever.




By this definition....I suppose I'm the latter....
That which does not kill me....only tries to kill me again.
Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jul 2009
  • Posts 194
  • EE 0% (0)
USA NH, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 8:01:34 AM EST
I have been at this survivalism thing for about 30 years now. It started when I read The Stand, and saw my first issue of Mother Earth News, followed by my first issue of Amercian Survival Guide. It was an interest I kept at bay, and only casually spoke about it with others. Since I was active duty military, and a career man to boot, I kept it in the closet. I kept my interests hidden, but read everything I could on terrorism, anarchism, nuclear warfare, and world politics. I did not fancy myself as a radical, or an extremist... heck, I was a GI ferchrissakes, and by the mid-80's I had a family. After I retired, and settled down, did I get a little more proactive with the whole survivalism thing, because soon enough, the word about the plausible dangers of Y2K were becoming real.

Protus, I have been here in SF over a year, and just recently become a team member because of your posts and other members like you. Great work! Your posts are lucid and entertaining. Much food for thought, this one especially.

So to compare and contrast your post here, let me tell you this. I am member at another survival forum, which began before Y2K. Back then, it was a mixture of folks who thought invasion on our soil would be a real threat, some still thought nuclear war would destroy us, and others began prepping because there was no certainty what life would be like post-Y2K. Today, that same forum harbours some of us who "got that old-time survival religion," and some who are liberal namby-pamby fucktards who are confident that they can fill their homes to the brim with rice and beans, and defend it with a Louisville Slugger. They 'dis those of us in the firearms section, for being too extreme, when most of us are only interested in matters of HD. So I guess there are two types of "our" people like you say, one side thinks they can be the Ant, and the other side thinks they can be the Sheepdog. I certainly prep like I am the industrious Ant, but I'd not hesitate to guard my flock with everything I got in me.
Felicity, the companion of content, is rather found in our own breasts than in the enjoyment of external things; and I firmly believe it requires but a little philosophy to make a man happy in whatever state he is. - Daniel Boone
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2008
  • Posts 143
  • EE 0% (0)
USA FL, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 9:13:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By Taft:
My thoughts:

PREPPER
A prepper is a survivor in the short term. They planned only for a single event, hurricane, earthquake, probably bought the ARK II kit or something like it. Maybe they have some extra food and batteries, but nothing really thought provoking. They think on only one level. They don't think ahead or plan for the worst case scenario. The last thing they want is their friends to think they are nuts, ie gun nut, survivalist nut etc. They may or may not have guns and ammo.

SURVIVALIST
By contrast to the prepper, lives the life. Prepares for everything, every eventuality. Nothing left to chance. Not a 3 day supply or a 2 week supply, but much much longer suuplies. Realizes the goverment can't really protect them, and does not want them to anyway. It is just not about hurricanes or earthquakes. It's about Food, water, gear, alternative power, guns, ammo, spare parts, tools and how to use them, and what's left after a system collapse. Its about skills, education, diversity. Lots of guns, lots of ammo, spare parts, accessories, night vision, uber-tacticool flashlights etc etc. It's about getting back to basics. If nothing happens, nothing is lost. Call it a mind set, The Grey tribe, Sheepdogs, whatever.



Very well spoken and obviously well thought out. I would have to agree to his definition.

I feel i am the survivalist, even though my family (excluding my 14-year old mini-me) thinks i am a bit extreme. They are the reason I prepare for everything from planning to execution. Store as much as I have room for, and can afford, and can use to get better. The gaps have to be filled with skills that have been practiced. My wife and older son feel prepping for a single event should just about cover it. I think it only begins to start the process. Whatever they call me doesn't change my focus or intent. I love them, and i would walk through fire for them. Anyone that gets between me and my family has " a lot of 'splaining to do".

Protus, very good topic and good hard question to ponder. It's good to make people stop and take stock of their situation and purpose.


Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2006
  • Posts 11909
  • EE 100% (2)
USA OH, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 9:19:48 AM EST
I call myself a "prepper" because I can't claim the title of "survivalist". I am not going to SERE school and I will not go out into the woods and see who can hack down the biggest trees with their uber tactical ninja knife. Many of the folks on this board seem to think you are not a real survivalist if you don't build an improvised shelter out of native materials every time you camp.

I prep so I can use my gear effectively, so I can survive using as few calories as possible. I know how to build a shelter, but its not plan A, but plan Z.


As for maintaining your former life, I am going to retain a substantial amount of it, because I have the ability and technology to do so. I can't say that I will spend huge amounts of time figuring how to watch TV, but I will be spending substantial time rigging up ways to run the farm and my machine tools.

As I wrote in my recent thread, there will be a huge adjustment to living in a world that more resembles 1910 instead of 2010. Learning to be happy when living in real poverty is the adjustment. I will still have many conveniences, but a fast majority of the things I enjoy now will be dead weight.
whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: Matthew 7:12
Note the sarcasm
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2004
  • Posts 2839
  • EE 100% (24)
USA NC, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 9:42:51 AM EST
To most people, outside of this forum, a prepper and a survivalist are synonymous.

Prepper is just a politically correct term. Like most things these days if a subject has a negative connotation
to it, you just change the term to something that has no negativity to it and you are golden. PC bullshit.

In 10 years, prepper will be what survivalist is now, and self-sufficient individual will be the new term replacing prepper.

Or maybe in 10 years there will be a bunch of dead non preppers, I mean life deprived dependents. See even I can do it.

I prepare for no other reason than my family is never ending up at the SuperDome (or equivalent) and you can call that whatever you want.







-Hi, my name is SzUrGoT, and I'm a ARcoholic.

-Oh, I am sorry, I thought this was a forum where people give their
opinions, exchange ideas and give/ask for help. My mistake.

-Original Infidel كافر

It's a trick. Get an axe.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2004
  • Posts 14015
  • EE 100% (6)
USA FL, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 10:43:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 11:00:53 AM EST by protus]

Originally Posted By Taft:
My thoughts:

PREPPER
A prepper is a survivor in the short term. They planned only for a single event, hurricane, earthquake, probably bought the ARK II kit or something like it. Maybe they have some extra food and batteries, but nothing really thought provoking. They think on only one level. They don't think ahead or plan for the worst case scenario. The last thing they want is their friends to think they are nuts, ie gun nut, survivalist nut etc. They may or may not have guns and ammo.

SURVIVALIST
By contrast to the prepper, lives the life. Prepares for everything, every eventuality. Nothing left to chance. Not a 3 day supply or a 2 week supply, but much much longer suuplies. Realizes the goverment can't really protect them, and does not want them to anyway. It is just not about hurricanes or earthquakes. It's about Food, water, gear, alternative power, guns, ammo, spare parts, tools and how to use them, and what's left after a system collapse. Its about skills, education, diversity. Lots of guns, lots of ammo, spare parts, accessories, night vision, uber-tacticool flashlights etc etc. It's about getting back to basics. If nothing happens, nothing is lost. Call it a mind set, The Grey tribe, Sheepdogs, whatever.


taft you and a few others are inline with my general idea of the major differences between the two.

For me, like posted above, call me what ya want. I know what i am.

Bat- i agree knowing how to do it doesnt mean it takes top spot just becuase you can.
But not knowing how to and only having "book "smarts on it is no excuse either. It goes both ways, and like the others i feel that is what may be one of the major definers in this debate.


Kibby- the issue you have is the same i have on smaller forums if i dont go under the handle "protus" but by my youtube handle.
The liberal types go batshit when you start mentioning that you may actually have to use your weapons to protect your family! LOL.


good replies so far guys, im kinda shocked it has stayed this calm LOL
www.survivalandpreparedness.com
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2006
  • Posts 177
  • EE 0% (0)
USA LA, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 10:51:39 AM EST
I would classify a prepper as a "normal" person who realizes there is risk, evaluates the risk (fire, economy, crime, tornatdo, etc), and prepares accordingly (within their means). This may be a branching out from/or into other hobbies such as shooting, gardening, etc. The prepper is community minded and self-reliant at the same time.

In contrast, the survivalist is fixated on the least likely events (nuclear war, invasion, etc.). They don't live a normal life, because every decision is based around survival. They strive to be self-sufficient without ever realizing it is not humanly possible (that is why we have communities to begin with). I would venture to say these are more likely to buy stuff they never use and may never even learn how to use.

Six foot tall and bullet resistant
Avatar
Lifetime Member
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2006
  • Posts 5471
  • EE 100% (10)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 11:00:49 AM EST
I don't care about labels, I'm just a paranoid dude with a shotgun, a rifle and a four wheel drive to go along with my collection of beans, bullets, bandaids, and body-armor.

Different strokes yada yada.
The only difference between us and a totalitarian government, seems to be that we are under the delusion of being free! - EdAvilaSr
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Jan 2006
  • Posts 826
  • EE 0% (0)
ARG ARG
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 11:04:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By Calhoun123:

In contrast, the survivalist is fixated on the least likely events (nuclear war, invasion, etc.). They don't live a normal life, because every decision is based around survival. They strive to be self-sufficient without ever realizing it is not humanly possible (that is why we have communities to begin with). I would venture to say these are more likely to buy stuff they never use and may never even learn how to use.


I agree with you that theres people like that out there, and that they consider themselves survivalists. But are they really? Sorry folks, we are creatures that live in society, if you can't live as part of some sort of community, may ir be small town or big citiy but society and interaction with others none the less, then in my book you lack the most basic skill and you have far worse problems than honoring the title of survivalist or not.

FerFAL

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Sep 2008
  • Posts 11
  • EE 0% (0)
USA CO, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 11:08:07 AM EST
Do you prepare just for the "probable" or for the "possible?"
I am definitely on the "probable" side of the spectrum. I'm more the guy with the 3-day pack than the lifetime supply of everything. For me, financial and localized disaster preparations are far more likely to be tested than EOTWAWKI style preparations. I would like to move to "major regional disaster" preps, but it is not my top priority.

It's a trick. Get an axe.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2004
  • Posts 14016
  • EE 100% (6)
USA FL, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 11:10:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 11:12:04 AM EST by protus]

Originally Posted By Calhoun123:
I would classify a prepper as a "normal" person who realizes there is risk, evaluates the risk (fire, economy, crime, tornatdo, etc), and prepares accordingly (within their means). This may be a branching out from/or into other hobbies such as shooting, gardening, etc. The prepper is community minded and self-reliant at the same time.

In contrast, the survivalist is fixated on the least likely events (nuclear war, invasion, etc.). They don't live a normal life, because every decision is based around survival. They strive to be self-sufficient without ever realizing it is not humanly possible (that is why we have communities to begin with). I would venture to say these are more likely to buy stuff they never use and may never even learn how to use.

and this is the PERFECT response as to why i posted what i did!

I am a survivalist.
I live a normal life. I work a normal job, i have a family. I prepare for a whole lot more than just NBC, or NWO troops storming down my city street. I also prep with in my means (single income family here) and have more than enough for us WAY past the "short term" mark. I know how to use every peice of kit i own,from using it. Not becuase i read it was good kit! On my way to being debt free and have a goal to one day have a semi self reliant retreat somewhere.....so i am not normal by your terms...

Im lost on the community minded,part unless you mean im supposed to share my food with my lib tard neighbors 5 doors down, who spent their money on that new Nissian Armada instead of food for their kids.......??? Do "preppers" really prepare to do that ,to feed,protect and provide for their neighbors who failed to do so.............?
www.survivalandpreparedness.com
It's a trick. Get an axe.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2004
  • Posts 14017
  • EE 100% (6)
USA FL, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 11:14:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 11:14:53 AM EST by protus]

Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Originally Posted By Calhoun123:

In contrast, the survivalist is fixated on the least likely events (nuclear war, invasion, etc.). They don't live a normal life, because every decision is based around survival. They strive to be self-sufficient without ever realizing it is not humanly possible (that is why we have communities to begin with). I would venture to say these are more likely to buy stuff they never use and may never even learn how to use.


I agree with you that theres people like that out there, and that they consider themselves survivalists. But are they really? Sorry folks, we are creatures that live in society, if you can't live as part of some sort of community, may ir be small town or big citiy but society and interaction with others none the less, then in my book you lack the most basic skill and you have far worse problems than honoring the title of survivalist or not.

FerFAL


FF i agree with most of what you said but
I dont think that the majority of people fall into the loner type. At least the ones i have met face to face or online . Most are family orientated and live normal lives( 9-5 job etc)
I think the loner crazy label is one that seems to clumped onto the "survival nut" label as well.
www.survivalandpreparedness.com
Member
Avatar
Gold
Offline
  • Joined May 2009
  • Posts 2559
  • EE 100% (8)
USA LA, USA
Military
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 11:18:53 AM EST
I consider myself a noob survivalist. How many preppers can make a fire using deadwood and yucca hand-made cordage? How many preppers can identify 20 edible wild plants in their A.O.? Or how to build an ojibway bird trap from a sapling and handmade cordage? Or a figure 4 deadfall trap? Or make a fishnet from 550 paracord or fishtrap from sticks stick in the mud.

I consider a survivalist to be much more mentally prepared than a prepper. I am somewhere in between.

It looked as if a night of dark intent
Was coming, and not only a night, an age.
Someone had better be prepared for Rage.
Robert Frost

"Wax your ass, I like them smooth." --Bama Shooter
Team Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Mar 2005
  • Posts 4283
  • EE 100% (113)
USA SC, USA
Military
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 11:41:45 AM EST
Protus, good post.

I am neither a survivalist or prepper, I am just an average person who is looking out for my family's well being and safety. The fact that I hunt and clean game, grow a garden, can preserve the food, catch fish and have the military background that would make me a formidable enemy, if I could hear.., but again all these things don't make me a survivalist or prepper they are merely things learned while growing up in the country with hard working family.
Like Hank Williams says "A country boy can survive"

But to answer your question, call me what you will but please call me at dinner time..

Basic
Offline
  • Joined May 2005
  • Posts 443
  • EE 100% (3)
USA NV, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 11:44:34 AM EST
I thought that Preppers were the people that us Survivalists were going to raid for supplies after the end of the world.javascript:insertText('');

Back in the 80s I was a kid thinking we were going to war with the commies. that got me started as a survivalist and that title just feels normal. Prepping sounds to casual and PC.

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2010
  • Posts 136
  • EE 100% (4)
USA VA, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 11:51:04 AM EST
I call myself a prepper because I have not formulated a long range/term plan but can handle 0-6 months. I don't have land or a specific bov established nor am I honed in arts that one would need without long term access to electricity or machinery.


To me, a survivalist is someone who has thought out and is ready for almost any contingency including emp for long term survival of family and some friends. I hope to get to that point but know I am no where near that point right now. Heck, I am still trying to figure out where I would go long term if SHTF.


It's a trick. Get an axe.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2004
  • Posts 14018
  • EE 100% (6)
USA FL, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 11:52:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 11:55:58 AM EST by protus]

Originally Posted By Lootie23:
I consider myself a noob survivalist. How many preppers can make a fire using deadwood and yucca hand-made cordage? How many preppers can identify 20 edible wild plants in their A.O.? Or how to build an ojibway bird trap from a sapling and handmade cordage? Or a figure 4 deadfall trap? Or make a fishnet from 550 paracord or fishtrap from sticks stick in the mud.

I consider a survivalist to be much more mentally prepared than a prepper. I am somewhere in between.



i think all of us are "between" somewhere in the evolution of it all.
I can do a lot of woods stuff. But not like some primative types ( like cody lundin etc). I'd say more of a les stroud have a love child with a moutainman,who cheated on him with boyscout at a gun show once

you bring up a good point though on the skill sets and what most survivalist even consider what a survivalist should be lol.


long term survival of family and some friends. I hope to get to that point but know I am no where near that point right now

like above i think we are all in some sort of level.

damn i rolled a 26 ,i guess my lvl 87 jed ekertt skill sets are no match for your lvl 140 paw death dealer survivalist

I dont think anyone,even in the perfect scenerio ( perfect bov,bol,group, 300 years of food etc) would consider themeselves done.....

but along your line of thinking, then why would the term prepper come up? to try and put a "rank" per say on their skill and prep level then?
www.survivalandpreparedness.com
Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2010
  • Posts 139
  • EE 100% (4)
USA VA, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 12:06:29 PM EST
I think mindset more then rank. Also to the more politically sensitive or live in such an area prepper sounds better. Heck, I dont advertise to neighbors what I have nor what I think. That is more for OPSEC then anything else though.

It's a trick. Get an axe.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2004
  • Posts 14020
  • EE 100% (6)
USA FL, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 12:11:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Surgassist:
I think mindset more then rank. Also to the more politically sensitive or live in such an area prepper sounds better. Heck, I dont advertise to neighbors what I have nor what I think. That is more for OPSEC then anything else though.

i recall getting laughed at and made fun of in public by those who fancied the term "prepper" for opsec comments like yours above at a meet/greet once..... to para phrase
out comes a persons digi cam
" OHH sally, careful now,,dont wanna break OPSEC around those hardcore types here............"
with about 5 folks erupting into laughter,
www.survivalandpreparedness.com
Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2010
  • Posts 140
  • EE 100% (4)
USA VA, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 12:19:11 PM EST
I am glad to help friends and neighbors but in more extreme situations I would be focused in getting my family to safety and their health. Why advertise to looters or anyone else what I have a few guns by my dozen stickers on my truck? Might as well fly a flag saying come shop here! Or I am just paranoid... let me get my tinfoil hat :) Wait are you ATF?

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Jan 2006
  • Posts 827
  • EE 0% (0)
ARG ARG
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 12:30:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Originally Posted By Calhoun123:

In contrast, the survivalist is fixated on the least likely events (nuclear war, invasion, etc.). They don't live a normal life, because every decision is based around survival. They strive to be self-sufficient without ever realizing it is not humanly possible (that is why we have communities to begin with). I would venture to say these are more likely to buy stuff they never use and may never even learn how to use.


I agree with you that theres people like that out there, and that they consider themselves survivalists. But are they really? Sorry folks, we are creatures that live in society, if you can't live as part of some sort of community, may ir be small town or big citiy but society and interaction with others none the less, then in my book you lack the most basic skill and you have far worse problems than honoring the title of survivalist or not.

FerFAL


FF i agree with most of what you said but
I dont think that the majority of people fall into the loner type. At least the ones i have met face to face or online . Most are family orientated and live normal lives( 9-5 job etc)
I think the loner crazy label is one that seems to clumped onto the "survival nut" label as well.





I'm with you on the stigmatization of the world survivalist. As I said before, for me use either one, people feel more affinity with one word or another and its not always a reflection of how well or poorly prepared they are.
Why does "survivalist" sometimes carries a stigma about it? Because some people that claim to be survivalists sometimes are jokes, just check youtube. You'll find with little effort half a dozen "survivalists" that should worry more about personal hygiene and fitness than zombies. One guy I saw, he ROLLED, man I kid you not, rolled on a couch to get to his rifle. In his opinion he was well prepared. He didn't want to even hear advice about dieting to drop the extra 200 pounds of pure fat he had all over his body.
You find ass hats among the “preppers” as well. It seems to be a more politically correct term, as an urban version of today’s bushcraft, but you also come across total idiots and poorly prepared people that define themselves as “preppers”. Maybe all they have is some food (which they don’t know how to prepare) more or less fancy gear depending on the economic level, but rarely going along with the correct mindset, which happens to be the most important thing.
Once again, you come across it all, on both sides, good and bad, and the word rarely ensures good levels of preparedness.
Consider yourselves lucky. Its at least an attempt on the right direction. In spanish there's not even one word to describe survialists or prepers or however you want to call it.
In te last couple years, the word "superviviente" is being used. IT would be a translation from survivalist, but its more related to vicitms of disasters that survived, rather than peoeple of a certain lifestyle that prepare.

FerFAL

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Jan 2006
  • Posts 828
  • EE 0% (0)
ARG ARG
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 12:35:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By protus:
i recall getting laughed at and made fun of in public by those who fancied the term "prepper" for opsec comments like yours above at a meet/greet once..... to para phrase
out comes a persons digi cam
" OHH sally, careful now,,dont wanna break OPSEC around those hardcore types here............"
with about 5 folks erupting into laughter,

That sucks. I've met nothing but nice people and had good times when I visted Texas over there. Then again I had a pretty good idea of what to expect on each meeting. Not so fond of gathering where I dont know who I'll b meeting with.

FerFAL

It's a trick. Get an axe.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2004
  • Posts 14021
  • EE 100% (6)
USA FL, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 12:56:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Originally Posted By protus:
i recall getting laughed at and made fun of in public by those who fancied the term "prepper" for opsec comments like yours above at a meet/greet once..... to para phrase
out comes a persons digi cam
" OHH sally, careful now,,dont wanna break OPSEC around those hardcore types here............"
with about 5 folks erupting into laughter,

That sucks. I've met nothing but nice people and had good times when I visted Texas over there. Then again I had a pretty good idea of what to expect on each meeting. Not so fond of gathering where I dont know who I'll b meeting with.

FerFAL

it was/is a new forum, me and some others( who unless they show to name themselves) helped this forum set up their 1st meet/greet. However,prior to, there were many threads where folks like you and me would get bashed for "raining" on their parade per say ( dose's of reality didnt take well).
I went because it was local and i cant discredit something becuase of one or two bad apples.
Have you seen the people of walmart pictures? imagine camping with that for 1 night. I slept under my tarp sidearm within reach as did others i found out later.

www.survivalandpreparedness.com
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2006
  • Posts 1067
  • EE 100% (1)
BWA BWA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 1:02:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Originally Posted By protus:
i recall getting laughed at and made fun of in public by those who fancied the term "prepper" for opsec comments like yours above at a meet/greet once..... to para phrase
out comes a persons digi cam
" OHH sally, careful now,,dont wanna break OPSEC around those hardcore types here............"
with about 5 folks erupting into laughter,

That sucks. I've met nothing but nice people and had good times when I visted Texas over there. Then again I had a pretty good idea of what to expect on each meeting. Not so fond of gathering where I dont know who I'll b meeting with.

FerFAL


Actually FF, the thing he is referring to is a bunch of asshead liberal "preppers" who gave him a lot of crap for talking about OPSEC. Actually the key one in question that Protus said made that comment could have been the 300lb. rolling ass clown you saw on youtube??? LOL

Course the "leader" of that particular site said he didn't want to be a "hard core survivalist" and learn "hand to hand urban combat skills" or "sleep under a tarp on the ground" or "make a fire from sticks." Makes one sorry for wasting his time trying to teach them how to use a bowdrill and giving a ground fighting demonstration.

This same 400 lb. Prozac Gomblin was the "prepper" who said his plan was to find a farm or retreat (like retreats have signs saying "Survival Retreat turn here") and take his highly disfunctional family there and "negotiate" his way in. If that didn't work they would "take the place." I wasn't kidding about the 400 lbs. and I think Louisville Sluggers were their preferred choice of arms. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT CRAP!!! He would later post that he was cruising his neighborhood "looking for solar panels" to steal post TSHTF!!! What was that that Protus posted about preppers and "The Colony?" This fit this guy to the T.

For me personally, I consider myself a survivalist. Not because I like the label, not just of anything else. It's what I am. I have prepared seriously for 24 years of my life. I have learned many things and spent tens of thousands of dollars learning them. I learn something every day of my life, when I stop learning I'll die. I live in the country because I like the damn country, not to "hide from society" or any related BS like that. I've lived in the city and I've lived in the country so I do have a comparison. Even if I wasn't a survivalist I'd still live in the country.

People that are survivalists that live in the country and take survivalism seriously are not: lacking medical care (plenty of good doctors in the country), poor or live in trailers (2 millionaires live next to us) , ignorant (two college degrees) , running from society, backwards, living without "conveniences", etc. This is ALL just stupid ass stereotyping.


It's a trick. Get an axe.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2004
  • Posts 14022
  • EE 100% (6)
USA FL, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 1:09:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lowdown3:
Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Originally Posted By protus:
i recall getting laughed at and made fun of in public by those who fancied the term "prepper" for opsec comments like yours above at a meet/greet once..... to para phrase
out comes a persons digi cam
" OHH sally, careful now,,dont wanna break OPSEC around those hardcore types here............"
with about 5 folks erupting into laughter,

That sucks. I've met nothing but nice people and had good times when I visted Texas over there. Then again I had a pretty good idea of what to expect on each meeting. Not so fond of gathering where I dont know who I'll b meeting with.

FerFAL


Actually FF, the thing he is referring to is a bunch of asshead liberal "preppers" who gave him a lot of crap for talking about OPSEC. Actually the key one in question that Protus said made that comment could have been the 300lb. rolling ass clown you saw on youtube??? LOL

Course the "leader" of that particular site said he didn't want to be a "hard core survivalist" and learn "hand to hand urban combat skills" or "sleep under a tarp on the ground" or "make a fire from sticks." Makes one sorry for wasting his time trying to teach them how to use a bowdrill and giving a ground fighting demonstration.

This same 400 lb. Prozac Gomblin was the "prepper" who said his plan was to find a farm or retreat (like retreats have signs saying "Survival Retreat turn here") and take his highly disfunctional family there and "negotiate" his way in. If that didn't work they would "take the place." I wasn't kidding about the 400 lbs. and I think Louisville Sluggers were their preferred choice of arms. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT CRAP!!! He would later post that he was cruising his neighborhood "looking for solar panels" to steal post TSHTF!!! What was that that Protus posted about preppers and "The Colony?" This fit this guy to the T.

For me personally, I consider myself a survivalist. Not because I like the label, not just of anything else. It's what I am. I have prepared seriously for 24 years of my life. I have learned many things and spent tens of thousands of dollars learning them. I learn something every day of my life, when I stop learning I'll die. I live in the country because I like the damn country, not to "hide from society" or any related BS like that. I've lived in the city and I've lived in the country so I do have a comparison. Even if I wasn't a survivalist I'd still live in the country.

People that are survivalists that live in the country and take survivalism seriously are not: lacking medical care (plenty of good doctors in the country), poor or live in trailers (2 millionaires live next to us) , ignorant (two college degrees) , running from society, backwards, living without "conveniences", etc. This is ALL just stupid ass stereotyping.



i have pictures of them i can post so we can at least get a laugh out of this thread......
They failed the opsec part for sure by posting up about 200 pics of the whole event.....and only 1 of the trap set ups...

least were labeled as "hardcore" now
www.survivalandpreparedness.com
Member
Avatar
Gold
Offline
  • Joined May 2009
  • Posts 2562
  • EE 100% (8)
USA LA, USA
Military
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 1:57:20 PM EST
This thread has now shifted into high gear.
It looked as if a night of dark intent
Was coming, and not only a night, an age.
Someone had better be prepared for Rage.
Robert Frost

"Wax your ass, I like them smooth." --Bama Shooter
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Posts 1055
  • EE 0% (0)
USA MD, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 2:09:32 PM EST
OK, Protus asked for it, so I'll copy/paste the long winded tale of how Survivalists got a bad name, and we have preppers, today.

begin paste:

As far as the history of "Survivalism" goes, allow me to give a view from someone pushing 50 yrs. old.
YMMV

In the first grade we were still doing "Get under your desk" drills due to the Soviet missle/nuke threat.
Surprisingly, I cannot say that molded me, (or others) into fearful "bunker babies".
The Mutual Assured Destruction term was coined and explained to everyone, then it was pretty much an attitude of society,
"Oh well, we'll all be dead, and who wants to live through the aftermath anyway?".
This lead to utter ignorant complacency, in psychology it's called "learned helplessness."

Fast Forward: I picked up my first copy of ASG in the 1980's, it was issue #2. I was hooked.
I also found out that leaving copies of ASG, with a guy wearing a gas mask holding a rifle, on the cover raised some folks eyebrows.

My family camped when I was younger, I hiked and camped as a teenager and 20-something.
That more than anything affected my thinking....i think? Not the Soviet missle threat.

Here is what the liberal media did in the 80's/90's , I watched it with my own eyes.
They filmed numerous rogue "Militia" Compounds that labelled themselves SURVIVALISTS.

The problem being: There were two types of "survivalists". The individual, self-reliant type (what you would call a prepper these days) and the organized militia's who also adopted the name. Why wouldn't the public develop a negative attitude when they see a barbed wire compound,
guys with sawastika tattoos, dressed in para-military regalia, and live fire drills?? That's how it went down.

As an individual survivalist, I had my camping gear, 4wd truck, and a Mini-14 (paid $289.99 for it!) and stocked some food and water.
Went through the various phases:
"Grab my gun and survive"
"I'll fortify right here , buy cases of ammo, and fight the hoards"
"I'll Bug Out and Live off the Land"
"I'll get a place in the boonies and circle the wagons"
etc. etc.

The resurgence in the survivalist mentality came at the time of the Y2K hype. As we all know Y2K ended up being 99.999% hype.
However, let's point out, it did do one thing.....it got some people to think!! It got people who had never given survivalism much thought, a pause to ponder and it gave people like myself a little kick in the pants not to rest on my arse.

Y2K was the fake, 9-11 was the "Shot heard round the world" for Survivalists.
I trust even the younger bunch grasps from this point forward. Post 9-11 the term prepper came to be,
"Survivalist" had too much negative press to ever become accepted by the masses.

If 9-11 was the cake, then Katrina was the frosting. The current economic situation is the cherry on top.

The internet and Tv have done a lot, lately, to "mainstream" the notion of survivalism/prepping.
As lame as it may seem, 15 years ago,
who would have dreamed there would be a TV show about 10 people trying to survive a post-plague die-off scenario??

From where i sit, things have come a long way in terms of acceptance. Even the government, post 9-11,
told everyone it was OK to prep!

Present: The immediate issue is that there are people who have just awakened, and are going through their "phases" and notions.
Hunkering down, all-I-need-is-a-gun, bugging out, living off the land, etc. Where the BTDT crowd either shoots holes in their ideas,
or tries to coax them along with ideas like, "Defending your home sounds good, but one molotov cocktail can wreck that idea".

-end paste-

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Posts 1056
  • EE 0% (0)
USA MD, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 2:23:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 2:27:14 PM EST by skunkwerx]
note: new reply so as not to muddy up the already muddy prior diatribe.

Well, it appears we have a few Closet-Survivalists 'coming out' in this thread?

If i may make an analogy.....

-Survivalists were given a bad name by commie-pinko journalists who decided to equate individual "Survivalists" with the Neo-Nazi Militia Movement.
-Preppers are currently having their name being "panzified" by sheeple who think buying a 10-22 , a Rayovac LED, a GPS unit, and 2 buckets of rice is "being prepared".
In short, "prepping" is becoming a fad....but, with all fads, it morphs into something less than what was originally intended.

I did really like some of the previous posts....they sorta took some words out of my mouth,
Being a Survivalist is a lifestyle, being a prepper of material goods is only but a sub-set of Survivalism.

Perhaps a true prepper, preps his mind, his plans, and his overall strategy, but, lately, the term Prepper seems to be morphing into merely someone who buys/collects STUFF and stores it.

Let's here from some more Survivalists.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2001
  • Posts 1094
  • EE 100% (17)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 2:29:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By ferfal308:
Originally Posted By Calhoun123:

In contrast, the survivalist is fixated on the least likely events (nuclear war, invasion, etc.). They don't live a normal life, because every decision is based around survival. They strive to be self-sufficient without ever realizing it is not humanly possible (that is why we have communities to begin with). I would venture to say these are more likely to buy stuff they never use and may never even learn how to use.


I agree with you that theres people like that out there, and that they consider themselves survivalists. But are they really? Sorry folks, we are creatures that live in society, if you can't live as part of some sort of community, may ir be small town or big citiy but society and interaction with others none the less, then in my book you lack the most basic skill and you have far worse problems than honoring the title of survivalist or not.

FerFAL

I CAN do my part in a community/team, if need be. I most assuredly prefer to do my own thing.
Y'all can "Lead, follow or get out of the way". I'll be over there, somewheres.

Hip like jelly, 'cause jam don't shake like that.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined May 2006
  • Posts 15779
  • EE 100% (2)
USA NV, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 2:43:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 2:44:00 PM EST by Bed_Head]
Hmmmm..... I've prepped for the short term (~1 1/2 yr supply in basics), and working on survival aspects. A lot of the 'survivalist' aspects you're talking about are education. Do I know how to hunt? Can I build a shelter out of nothing? Can I grow and subsequently store nearly all my own food? Can I live easily 'off grid'? Do I know how to raise animals? Can I take animal hair, cord it, spin it, and weave/knit it into wearable clothing? Or how about leather? Can I make my own soap? Do I have more than a very basic knowledge of first aid?

It takes a lifetime to be a true 'survivalist.' I agree that it's a mentality, too.... one must adapt and overcome any obstacle.

I'm just a typical suburban mom though, working normal jobs, taking the kids to normal schools, doing normal family things. Most people who have their heads stuck in the sand would be surprised to know what extent of preps and knowledge I've gained as an adult. Most of us 'preppers' and 'survivalists' fit right in to normal society. We just have a plan, preps, and lots of knowledge for when things go bad.
"Internet based attacks on your S.O. can backfire. Bigtime." ~ karma

"I've never banned so many people before. Ban, ban, ban. What a joyous feeling." ~ 82ND-ABN
Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2009
  • Posts 561
  • EE 0% (0)
USA PA, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 2:49:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By Szurgot:
To most people, outside of this forum, a prepper and a survivalist are synonymous.

Prepper is just a politically correct term. Like most things these days if a subject has a negative connotation
to it, you just change the term to something that has no negativity to it and you are golden. PC bullshit.

In 10 years, prepper will be what survivalist is now, and self-sufficient individual will be the new term replacing prepper.

Or maybe in 10 years there will be a bunch of dead non preppers, I mean life deprived dependents. See even I can do it.

I prepare for no other reason than my family is never ending up at the SuperDome (or equivalent) and you can call that whatever you want.









This^^^ Protus, I think it is a waste of time to get hung up on word games. I think that the prepper/survivalist issue is a non issue. I say this because I do not feel it is an issue of names or tags. Not a question of either/or.

For me, the mind set and physical preparations have been a steady progression or evolution. I think most people start out as a simple prepper, influenced by some national, local, or family event (or maybe they just fall in love with all the gear and toys). It starts with a couple of flashlights and cases of MRE's. Over time they either grow and evolve, the flashlight becoming solar chargers and generators, the MRE's becoming backyard chickens and canning home grown veggies, or they loose interest and slide back into the flock.

By your definition the "prepper" is some kind of Yuppie dilatant that should just pack up his gear and go home and leave the whole SHTF stuff to the "real survivalists". I see the prepper as someone who is on the right path, it's just that their mind has not made that final leap, they have not yet grasped the concept that things can really go completely to shit. Rather than heaping scorn on them, calling them "gear fags" and "posers", these are the people that need to be cultivated. They need to be encouraged to expand their skills and supplies beyond mere "preps" for the local unpleasantness.

I know for me that the journey has been over thirty years, and continues. I like the statement "I prep to survive", because I think that covers me just fine.

stasiman

Pro 2A Rosa Parks of I.H.O.P.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Mar 2007
  • Posts 3669
  • EE 100% (4)
USA VA, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 3:24:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kibby:
So I guess there are two types of "our" people like you say, one side thinks they can be the Ant, and the other side thinks they can be the Sheepdog. I certainly prep like I am the industrious Ant, but I'd not hesitate to guard my flock with everything I got in me.


i think this is a fairly good call preppers are more like ants and survivalists more like sheepdogs i suppose.

but fuck it, it's all semantics. i'm sure there are folks who consider themselves as part of one group and not so much the other, but in any demographic there are folks whom are more highly motivated to acheive success and folks whom have a higher likelyhood of defending themselves with the use of force, against those whom would visit aggression and violence in order to prey upon them.

the top 10% of folks from either so called "group"(preppers or survivalists) are the 10% most likely to walk away from whatever the SHTF scenario is. in any demographic you are also equally likely to find that bottom 10% of shitbirds whom come SHTF just won't(or in present day fluffy fuzzy bunny and rainbow colored unicorn life shouldn't) get by with out a lot of assistance... wether prepper or survivalist that other 80% all have a fighting chance and no one really knows how the cards will play out...

K.
My GF broke the " C " button on our laptop and now it doesn't work half the time...

My conservative commonwealth's 230ish year old state seal is a direct COC violation. Our founding fathers approved of images of bared breasts...
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Posts 1058
  • EE 0% (0)
USA MD, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 3:30:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 3:33:11 PM EST by skunkwerx]
Originally Posted By Bed_Head:
Hmmmm..... I've prepped for the short term (~1 1/2 yr supply in basics), and working on survival aspects. A lot of the 'survivalist' aspects you're talking about are education. Do I know how to hunt? Can I build a shelter out of nothing? Can I grow and subsequently store nearly all my own food? Can I live easily 'off grid'? Do I know how to raise animals? Can I take animal hair, cord it, spin it, and weave/knit it into wearable clothing? Or how about leather? Can I make my own soap? Do I have more than a very basic knowledge of first aid?

It takes a lifetime to be a true 'survivalist.' I agree that it's a mentality, too.... one must adapt and overcome any obstacle.

I'm just a typical suburban mom though, working normal jobs, taking the kids to normal schools, doing normal family things. Most people who have their heads stuck in the sand would be surprised to know what extent of preps and knowledge I've gained as an adult. Most of us 'preppers' and 'survivalists' fit right in to normal society. We just have a plan, preps, and lots of knowledge for when things go bad.


Bed _Head, perfect! Very well put.

Some people think about what will keep them safe and sound, and go about doing their best to "better their position".
Whether that be learning some skills or stocking up on supplies.
All the while, living life.


Stasiman, agree , when you boil it down, it is just labels.

However within the the universe of preppers and survivalists there are all shapes and sizes, and I think what Protus might be getting at, as I was, is that Prepping has now been mainstreamed, and is being watered down by the self-proclaimed experts who figure out how to upload to You Tube. It's like the ultimate in theft, old school survivalism/prepping is being hijacked, on-line, by the psuedo-experts.

Doesn't mean a hill of beans, to yourself, protus, or others in here, but to anyone just getting into prepping, they can be led off course real fast.

if anyone wants some real entertainment , go to You Tube and search on "SHTF" , good for a few laughs.

Guarding the Flock
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jul 2009
  • Posts 196
  • EE 0% (0)
USA NH, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 4:36:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lootie23:
I consider myself a noob survivalist. How many preppers can make a fire using deadwood and yucca hand-made cordage? How many preppers can identify 20 edible wild plants in their A.O.? Or how to build an ojibway bird trap from a sapling and handmade cordage? Or a figure 4 deadfall trap? Or make a fishnet from 550 paracord or fishtrap from sticks stick in the mud.


If'n I may, and please be assured that I mean no disrespect when I say this, Lootie, I think you are confusing your outdoor survival skills with the label of "survivalist." Dave Canterbury and Cody Lundin are not survivalists, they are "outdoor survival specialists." Over recent years there has been this misconception, thusly, the blending of these two very different activities. Knowing how to start a fire and make a shelter are essential survival skills to know, but they in themselves to not even come close to defining what is means to be a survivalist.
Felicity, the companion of content, is rather found in our own breasts than in the enjoyment of external things; and I firmly believe it requires but a little philosophy to make a man happy in whatever state he is. - Daniel Boone
Double secret probation
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2006
  • Posts 1477
  • EE 100% (1)
USA USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 4:53:42 PM EST
I think it’s pretty much how Protus described it in the first paragraph.

My take:

A prepper is food, family, & friend oriented with the thought in mind of being prepared for most events to at least have a head start on recovery. Making sure that the family will be ok. Preppers are ‘gray’.

The survivalist is gun, combat, & self-preservation oriented. Where the end of the world would be welcomed to show everyone else that they are right. Rebuilding the world the way they see fit because they are smarter and harder than everyone else. Survivalists dig the camo.

The two differ now because being prepared is more mainstream. Survivalist still has a negative element. Media shows whackjobs dressed in camo; they would be survivalists. But, being a prepper is not a form of faghattery. I don’t think it’s only libtards that call themselves a prepper. There is no corner on the conservative market being a survivalist.

There has to be something in the middle. Maybe that is what I am. When I was young and dumb I called myself a survivalist because I owned an AR and my MO was to take what I wanted.

I do love reading AR15, and learning from others. I’m more of a conservative, former hunter, almost senior, laid-back type, working on my retirement nest egg, Obongo-McSame hater, thinking about a Corvette but GM is dead to me, probably will sell this place and build my last house, former republican, non-camo wearing, AR building, prefer a bed, union hater, that doesn’t give a rats-ass what’s on the TV, gas griller, Rolex wearing, keep my interests hidden, take my daughter to the mall, give my wife a lifetime handgun permit for our 25th wedding anniversary, looking at 40 acres of rough ground, chili with beans eating, travel 12 weeks a year on business, get paid to care about others, not on the clock right now, don’t give a shit if somebody starves, regular guy that just wants to be left alone. Or, you could call me a poser.
"...I feel safer with a rifle."
Race Bannon
My Avatar is Staring at You.
Avatar
Lifetime Member
Offline
  • Joined Sep 2005
  • Posts 7598
  • EE 100% (47)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 4:59:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 5:01:25 PM EST by kar98k]
.

I always thought the major difference was in how tight they each wrapped the tinfoil.

There's also the feeling that the "survivalist" wants things to fall apart so he can play with all of his cool new toys.

If some catastrophic event happens and most of humanity is wiped from the face of the earth, the only people left to hang out with will be you guys! Oh the horror! -- Boombastic

No situation is ever so bad that the government can't make it worse.
Spiritual Bacon Taco
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jul 2008
  • Posts 1104
  • EE 0% (0)
USA KS, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 5:16:49 PM EST
At first I read the OP and thought "Labels... meh."

But then I asked the wife unit, she said she thought 'survivalist' sounds too extreme. Proof of the cultural image projection I guess.
I call myself a prepper, but looking at the different definitions, I guess I'm a neo survivalist trying to get to that next level - self sufficient individual.

Survival is a goal. Being prepared is a means to that goal.

I'll be satisfied when I get to the point that I can raise most all my own food, and live with the least amount of outside help possible, and have enough to barter to get what I don't produce.
Don't know when I'll get there... but taking the steps that I can as I can.

I guess that I use the term 'prepper' or 'prepping' as a way to introduce the idea without bringing up the scary bogey man 'survivalist'.
And realsitically, prepare for the most likely event first. The most likely events are still, unemployment, ice storms, tornados, floods, etc...
I guess I'm at the next level because I see the necessity of being able to provide when you find yourself in the bigger event. (There's no starting gun for a depression, or for societal breakdown.) I am looking to make sure me and mine can get through those. Yeah, it means more tools, more skills. Body armor, NV, someplace to go, etc... are all necessary to my way of seeing it. Not so worried about zombies, but starving hood rats are a real concern...
But honestly, the more people that are at least thinking about preparing and providing for themselves, and taking those important first steps, the better IMHO.
Even the Starbux douches in OP would be OK with me, at least they won't be asking me for a meal (at least not at first). And having the mass interest influence on the market helps to keep prices down, so that's a bonus.

It's the guys that are educated about what and why, but still live life like nothing can ever change that piss me off the most. /soapbox
"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." - Alexis de Tocqueville
Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jul 2009
  • Posts 821
  • EE 100% (13)
USA WY, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 5:19:07 PM EST
Looking back on 50, and speaking as one of those nutters that caused the publishers to think that maybe "American Survival Guide" might be a good thing to publish, there isn't much diff if any at all.

Back in the early days, when the term survivalist was first being bandied about, and before Hollywood decided that there'd be a uniform for it, we were folks who prepared for things we could reasonably see coming. No more, no less.

It seems hokey and paranoid now that we'd be concerned with nuclear war or communist invasion, but back then is wasn't such a joke. The Soviet hadn't undergone it's chameleonic change, and we still relied on our nuclear arsenal to keep them polite. You could walk into any city hall in the country and pick up pamphlets on building your own fallout shelter, and many cities and counties maintained their own public shelters. The survivalist was the guy who'd not only picked up the pamphlet, but had read it and made some preparations in case he had to use it.

I was living in Fla in the early 80s. Come hurricane season, when everybody was running around ten minutes before landfall looking for long-vanished plywood and filling their bathtubs with water, the survivalist had his panels up already, because he stored them in his garage or parking structure. And his water was in carboys or jugs, just like always.

In tornado country, the survivalist was the guy who wasn't huddled in a doorframe listening to the screaming wind, he was the guy in his own shelter, listening to his battery powered weather radio.

Pretty much exactly what preppers claim to be now. Know what? good on 'em. I'm a prepper or a survivalist depending on who I'm talking to and whether or not I'm interested in arguing.

How about if we call ourselves Robert Heinlein Men/women?

"A Man should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently and die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Robert A. Heinlein
“Out of a hundred men, ten shouldn’t be there and 80 are just targets. Nine are the real fighters, and we are thankful for them because they make the battle. But the one, the one is a warrior and he brings the others back.” -Heraclites
My Avatar is Staring at You.
Avatar
Lifetime Member
Offline
  • Joined Sep 2005
  • Posts 7599
  • EE 100% (47)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 5:25:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheOTHERmaninblack:
Looking back on 50, and speaking as one of those nutters that caused the publishers to think that maybe "American Survival Guide" might be a good thing to publish, there isn't much diff if any at all.

Back in the early days, when the term survivalist was first being bandied about, and before Hollywood decided that there'd be a uniform for it, we were folks who prepared for things we could reasonably see coming. No more, no less.

It seems hokey and paranoid now that we'd be concerned with nuclear war or communist invasion, but back then is wasn't such a joke. The Soviet hadn't undergone it's chameleonic change, and we still relied on our nuclear arsenal to keep them polite. You could walk into any city hall in the country and pick up pamphlets on building your own fallout shelter, and many cities and counties maintained their own public shelters. The survivalist was the guy who'd not only picked up the pamphlet, but had read it and made some preparations in case he had to use it.

I was living in Fla in the early 80s. Come hurricane season, when everybody was running around ten minutes before landfall looking for long-vanished plywood and filling their bathtubs with water, the survivalist had his panels up already, because he stored them in his garage or parking structure. And his water was in carboys or jugs, just like always.

In tornado country, the survivalist was the guy who wasn't huddled in a doorframe listening to the screaming wind, he was the guy in his own shelter, listening to his battery powered weather radio.

Pretty much exactly what preppers claim to be now. Know what? good on 'em. I'm a prepper or a survivalist depending on who I'm talking to and whether or not I'm interested in arguing.

How about if we call ourselves Robert Heinlein Men/women?

"A Man should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently and die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Robert A. Heinlein


The prepper is doing all of the same things as the survivalist. He just isn't wearing multicam while he does them.



If some catastrophic event happens and most of humanity is wiped from the face of the earth, the only people left to hang out with will be you guys! Oh the horror! -- Boombastic

No situation is ever so bad that the government can't make it worse.
Hip like jelly, 'cause jam don't shake like that.
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined May 2006
  • Posts 15784
  • EE 100% (2)
USA NV, USA
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 5:34:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By kar98k:


The prepper is doing all of the same things as the survivalist. He just isn't wearing multicam while he does them.





"Internet based attacks on your S.O. can backfire. Bigtime." ~ karma

"I've never banned so many people before. Ban, ban, ban. What a joyous feeling." ~ 82ND-ABN
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Top