Something that could kill bugs that cause various infections, from diverticulosis to strep throat to dental/oral problems?

I've done a bit of research and Cipro seems to be a good one...

Please share your suggestions, they are much appreciated!

ETA

Just wanted to say that I'm proud a thread I started yrs. ago has become a sticky.

Cipro is a good antibiotic for things from pneumonia to diverticulitis to bladder infections, but isnt a good choice for wounds or other ailments, in reality there is no one drug cures all antibiotic out, maybe in 1945 with the advent of the use of Penicillin and Sulfa drugs, but the the bugs are different now in their resistance and susceptibility. So in good ole Arfcom fashion, get more than one, hope this helps clear up things for you.

Thanks very much!  (I worked for Wyeth during the 1980's and things have changed quite a bit since then.)

What other antibiotics should I consider?

I Keep Bactrim DS and Amoxicillin on hand along with Cipro, just my personal preferences, and experience.

Excellent.  Thanks again.

Hard to beat Amoxicillin and I remember when Roche(?) first brought out Bactrim.  Yea, I'm an older guy.

Start small, Penicillin for the price will do pretty amazing things.  Most people (except those with PCN allergies) respond well.  Why go for the gusto right away??  Save the big guns for when you really need them!

Penicillin, Amoxicillin, Ciprofloxacin, and Vancomycin.  If what you got can't be covered by one of those, you're pretty much fucked.

Thanks Ladies and Gents for the responses, they are much appreciated.

I'll be following your advice.  

I have cipro and some doxycycline among others....If kept in a cool dry cabnet how long past the exp date are they good for?

Meropenem is pretty broad spectrum
Add in Vancomycin or linezolid and a dose of gent and that's a good place to start.

What are we talking about again?

One thing to keep in mind is that I believe most antibiotics become toxic if they sit too long.  So I wouldn't count on long term storage.



 

Which ones of these can you get from a local Tractor Supply or Farm Coop?

Suggestions besides asking a doc for scrip?

Thanks,

Merlin

Double zip lock bag them in the original bottles and placed in your freezer they will last 10 years or more.

If you have fish you can buy these from Amazon.com to keep them healthy
Tetracycline
Ciprofloxacin
Doxycycline
Cephalexin
Metronidazole
Erythromycin
Amoxicillin
Bactrim

An interesting thing about these fish antibiotics, they come in the exact dose strength used in treating people and are made by either name brand big pharma or well known generic companies in the identical form (pill color, markings etc.) sold at pharmacies.

Ah, in that case you'll probably only be able to get Penicillin or Oxytetracycline, maybe even Streptomycin.  But that's about all you'll be able to get off the shelf.  Remember, you'll want to use the swine dosage for mg/lb.

 

If a medical professional came to this forum and asked - "What's a good "general use" (broad spectrum) gun?... you know the kind that will kill stuff.  I've been doing some research and it seems that a 12 gauge might be a good choice...  what do y'all think? "  what would you say to him???

This is good to know.. thanks.



I have a hard enough time getting a damn Doc to write me a script when I actually have something, let alone for "SHTF cases"

Why would you freeze them??? Not to be rude, but please don't make statements that aren't true. DO NOT freeze them. Keep at room temp, as the bottle/manufacturer indicates.

I'd politely suggest to folks who make meaningless posts to a guy's thread who is legitimately seeking info, that GD is <<<THAT'A WAY<<<.

Better yet, keep most meds cool, as in a frig.

Some can be frozen but ~40F should be optimum, but I can't cite a source right now.

Also, Metronidazole [Flagyl] was mentioned above -and it is usually overlooked in these kinds of threads, and is very important for gut parasites as from bad water.

Fortunately, for fish related infections it is readily available OTC.

I'd want to be damn sure about that.



 

Diverticular disease was mentioned above and I was impressed that someone asked about it.

This is a gut infection that can lay you low, can happen suddenly, and to anyone.

Once you have it you are likely to have recurrences. It can kill you if meds or help aren't available. If meds are available, it is often easily and quickly treatable. Ask me how I know...

Do your own research and then ask questions on the board if you are so motivated.

If you 'have' Diverticulitis/Diverticulosis, asking your doc for a script for Flagyl and Augmentine [Amoxicillin and Clauvanic acid] for keep with you when you travel to remote areas may be possible.

Flagyl and a quinolone [Cipro is one] will be found to be recommended as well as other antibiotics. Flagyl is pretty much always one of the pair tho. [My doc was pissed that a quinolone was used instead of Augmentine, he only goes with Augmentine.]

Absolutely ––you want to be sure and there is a wealth of info just for Googling it. Should take less than an hour to collect the info.

ETA, Also, if the meds are packaged in non-std quantities, a little arithmetic will let you calculate/scale the dose.

IIRC,   a great big Tetracycline tab for horses was easily broken off and roughly measured, in a faraway place, so the dose equaled that for a 200 pound pig and solved a gut infection/problem nicely. The tab was in excess of 8 yrs old and there was no adverse reaction unlike what many [who have no idea what they are talking about ] will post about the MODERN FORMULATION  of the med.

I just bought 120 pills of 500mg amoxicillin for $30 down in puerto vallarta.  Wish I knew about the fish meds.  That's good to know.

If only they sold Zithromax for fish.

Not a tag and thank you all.

He makes a legit point.  Yes, the antibiotic threads are less scary than the "homebrew your own chloroform for a SHTF anesthetic" classic from a couple months back, but it's still hard to read threads where people are recommending drugs they can't even spell correctly.  

Oh, and Levaquin (levofloxacin).  Expensive but probably the closest thing to a safe, once daily, broad spectrum, oral antibiotic ... I never visit a 3rd world country without taking some.  And this isn't medical advice.

Thanks very much for the informative posts everyone.  Much appreciated.

I'd like to respectfully suggest that folks who don't understand (or perhaps don't like) the point of a legitimate post not refer to them as "meaningless"...  

Drug degradation rate is highly dependent on temperature as well as moisture, light exposure, excipients etc. The colder you can store them the longer they will last. There are a few exceptions such as in liquid formulations where freezing can cause drug precipitation and result in reduced oral absorption. In the case of biologic based drugs (proteins, antibodies etc) freezing can lead to denaturation with complete loss of activity.
The vast majority of drugs provided in pill/capsule form can be stored frozen and the colder the better.

By the way, I’m a medicinal chemist who has spent the last 25 years or so designing and synthesizing new drugs in the anti-infective and oncology disease areas.

My information is about 15 years old, but back then dairies used to buy "Penn G' in 50 gallon drums.
Is that still the case?
Anyone?
Thanks.

Just FYI, Flagyl (Metronidazole ) is really good for knocking down tooth abscesses, which is one of the kinds of post-SHTF things you may come across.

And considering it acts against a wide variety of non bacterial protozoan GI parasites, (which are waterborne, hence it's use in aquariums), it's obvious it should be on a SHTF short-list.

Although as a treatment for anaerobic bacterial infections, it's generally not indicated for superficial skin infections or wound infections.

It very much is.  You can buy Penn G for stupid cheap.  Like 7 bucks for 500ml.



 

Cipro is generally used below the diaphragm, for uti, diverticulitis, etc..
Not so good for sinus, pneumonia, skin infections, etc.
Cipro and a good 2nd or 3rd gen cephalosporin such as Omnicef would be a good pair to keep around
Covers most bases, though you need Doxycycline and Bactrim combo for Staph (MRSA)

I am getting over a MRSA infection which most likely would have killed me if it wasn't for Vancomycin, Septra DS, Doxycycline, and Bactroban.

That is something to hope you never get and hope medical treatment is available if you do.

Someone here a while back posted a URL to Dr Weiss' "A Comprehensive Guide to Wilderness and Travel Medicine."  I can't locate the URL now, but have the pdfs on every portable device I own and hardcopies in all GHBs.  It's a book we should all own.  Pages 193 through 197 give a quick overview of antibiotics, for example, including their use and dosage.  I've done a good bit of research, and this seems like the best simple list I've found to date.  

I know it's our policy here to not espouse illegal behavior (which I understand and support), but it is my understanding that the FDA allows us to import up to 90 days supply of medications we use.  I haven't had any problems getting human versions of these supplies sent here.  I am frequently plagued with sinus infections (not enough to get surgery, but almost certainly to the point I will get a sinus infection if exposed to weather and under stress).  If SHTF I would probably be incapacitated without a z-pack ("zithromax" or azithormycin).  I have no qualms whatsoever about having some on hand and rotating as new prescriptions are written.  I will NOT use antibiotics without a doctor's visit and prescription under normal circumstances, and I think it's important you consider the same commitment.  I don't mean to preach, but I do know people that have gotten in to trouble by "self prescribing" and not understanding their symptoms.  I'm sure this is obvious to everyone, but stocking antiobiotics generally comes far below cold medicines, pepto bismol, pain relief and other everyday supplies.  

If it's deemed kosher, I can post the portion of the wilderness and travel medicine guide that deals with antibiotics.  I believe the URL was from Adventure Medical, but I don't want to post copyrighted material if it wasn't intended to be shared.....

CIPRO

Other Antibiotics

Yes, I use Fish antibiotics and they work fine.

What is best if the little guys get a respiratory infection?

Whether you care or not, this is starting to head into dangerous territory. Two quotes from Osler about the practice of medicine are particularly fitting here -

First "A physician who treats himself has a fool for a patient" - this goes for friends and family. These boundaries are not arbitrary. It is difficult (impossible?) to be objective about the health and illnesses of your loved ones hence we make bad decisions.  Many physicians have lost their licenses (and their lives) from this sort of behavior. Tread carefully.

Second “The good physician treats the disease; the great physician treats the patient who has the disease” - good medicine is much much more than matching a set of symptoms with an antibiotic. Medicine is not all rocket science but it is not as simple as stacking rocks either. Good decisions come from integration of clinical facts, objective data, medical knowledge and clinical experience. None of these are well replaced by postings on ar15.com, your pocket Harriet Lane or even Nelson’s. Know your limits about what you do know and more importantly what you don’t.

To answer your question – it depends. It might be as simple as no antibiotics and supportive care.

If you're asking about a minimalist set of drugs to keep for a SHTF scenario, my wish list would be as follows.  This is the stuff I'd take myself if I were hiking off into the middle of nowhere... and these are chosen with an eye towards cost savings.

Cipro:  Great for most gram-negatives (think intestinal flora).  Covers invasive diarrheas (salmonella, shigella, E-coli), and UTIs.  NOT a good choice for pneumonia, as it has very little gram-positive coverage compared to the "respiratory quinolones" (Levaquin, Avelox, etc).  Great oral absorption.


Doxycycline:  Covers a lot of atypical bugs, including all the Zoonses you're likely to pick up from ticks out in the woods (Lyme, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, etc).  Also treats Cat Scratch Disease (Cipro also works).  Doxy is also an excellent drug for Pneumonia.  The only downside is that it makes you photosensitive... so stay out of the sun.  Doxycycline Hyclate is also dirt cheap... don't buy the Doxycycline Monohydrate... that's VERY expensive.


Amoxicillin:  Dirt-cheap gram-positive coverage.  Covers strep, and can be a fair choice for sinuses.  Will even treat the occasional UTI (though augmentin or ampicillin are probably preferred... the former is very expensive, and the latter is dirt cheap and may be an acceptable substitute for Amoxicillin).  Also treats even partially-resistant pneumonias and ear infections in high doses.


Flagyl:  Covers anaerobes.  Several posters have mentioned it being used in conjunction with other antibiotics for Diverticulitis, and they are correct.  Levaquin/Flagyl is a common cocktail for Diverticulitis... but your Amoxicillin/Cipro/Flagyl would be acceptable as well.  you have to add the Amoxicillin to the Cipro because Cipro lacks the gram-positive coverage of a "respiratory quinolones" like Levaquin.


If I had to cut it down to the bare minimum, and include only oral antibiotics, that's what I'd take.


ETA:  I just realized that I've committed a grievous oversight.  I didn't throw in anything about parasites (roundworms, tapeworms, hookworms, etc).  They're not generally an acute life-threat like some of the other infections we're discussing, but in a SHTF scenario, your nutrition is going to be tenuous enough without a large parasite load sucking up your hard-won vitamins and calories.  In that vein, I'd suggest including some Vermox or Albenza.

You forgot one, Doxycycline.

The Doxy is a must.

The Penicillin and Amoxicillin are redundant... delete one of those two.  I'd agree with the Cipro... and don't waste your money on oral Vancomycin.  It's extremely expensive, and has no systemic absorption... it's used almost exclusively to treat resistant C. difficile infection.  I'd almost agree with IV vancomycin... but that's used almost exclusively for MRSA, and respresents a level of complexity and expertise that's probably a bit unrealistic for SHTF.

If you're worried about MRSA, Doxy covers MRSA... and if you were really worried, you could substitute Clindamycin for the Flagyl in your list.  It would end up being more expensive, but Clindamycin also covers staph in addition to anaerobes.

Doxy was prescribed around here for the Anthrax exposures after 9/11. However, a lot of folks had issues with the side effects.

You could use the Cipro if you're worried about Anthrax.

A tetracycline is something you should have... and doxy is probably the most readily available and cheap derivative.  It gives some people a little GI upset, but nowhere near what you'd get with erythromycin (the cheapest macrolide).

ETA: plain erythromycin is notorious for the GI distress.  I've taken it, and it's quite unpleasant.  Reactions vary, but I had doubling-you-over abdominal pain.

You're probably right on the Amoxicillin, I don't really know for sure.  I do know that Penicillin can be had stupid cheap in pill, powder, or solution for stupid cheap from most farm supply places and it's usually formulated for long term storage.  As for IV Vancomycin, I was taught how to run an IV by the Army but they didn't teach me shit about how to setup a Vancomycin drip or what dosage to use etc.  Based on my family farm experience I could probably set up a Penicillin drip if I absolutely had to based on the mg/lb dosage for swine.  The whole fish antibiotics thing is news to me, and if they are indeed suitable for human use in a pinch, it's good to know.  That means I probably need to learn about proper dosages for something other than Penicillin and Oxytetracycline.

 

Maybe you medical guys can school me on the difference between Doxycycline and Oxytetracycline?  The Oxy is another extremely common farm antibiotic and can be had pretty cheap in large quantities, though not nearly as cheaply as Penn G.

Never seen that used on a human being.

A chemist might have to answer that one.

I haven't seen Tetracycline prescribed in years. I recall that there were teeth staining issues in Peds.

A friend who is PhD MRSA expert at the CDC says we are all doomed.

All I know is that the discovery of Oxytetracycline in the 50s lead to the development of Doxycycline which is apparently derived from Oxytetracycline.