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Posted: 8/24/2010 12:25:37 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT As far as NADA is concerned Ranger didn't even produce a 158 in 79.... However, i have a buddy that is selling a real nice boat. The hull says its a 79 and its emblem is V158 It has a 70HP Johnson that runs and starts very well, he says it fouls the plugs if you take off with it too quickly though. Any info on the boat itself, or the motor fouling plugs would be appreciated....google has nothing that i can find. |
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Posted: 8/24/2010 12:56:45 PM
Fouling on take off means its running too rich most likely or excessive Idling will load up a sparkplug along with being too rich. Lean it out and I bet it would be fine and gain a lil HP along the way.
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Posted: 8/24/2010 1:19:12 PM
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Fouling on take off means its running too rich most likely or excessive Idling will load up a sparkplug along with being too rich. Lean it out and I bet it would be fine and gain a lil HP along the way. So a smaller main jet? I'm not too farmiliar with carbs as of now...i want to take them off and clean them up though over the winter. |
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Posted: 8/24/2010 1:33:33 PM
[Last Edit: 8/24/2010 1:43:36 PM by die-tryin]
Originally Posted By eclark53520:
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Fouling on take off means its running too rich most likely or excessive Idling will load up a sparkplug along with being too rich. Lean it out and I bet it would be fine and gain a lil HP along the way. So a smaller main jet? I'm not too farmiliar with carbs as of now...i want to take them off and clean them up though over the winter. If its a 2stroke motor, Id bet the MIX was off. This will most definently cause those issues. Could be something that simple. I just thought about something else, first thing I would do is check the air filter, I bet its clogged or really dirty. I would pull plugs and put fresh ones in there, yank the filter and start it up, see what happens. The other thing would be the CHOKE. If its stuck or "on" too long, this could effect how it runs, some chokes control air, some control fuel. Not necessarily. Some carbs use Needles to control air, while some use it to control FUEL and some use jets the same way, depends on what type of carb is on there. . if you go smaller on AIR, your going richer, if your going smaller on FUEL, your going leaner, personally, Id go the opposite, If its a fuel jets, Id figure out how to get more air, More Air + More Fuel = more power. youd have to get a manual or check online to see how to LEAN that carb out. I would first clean it up real good. If it has air jet, it could just be clogged up some, giving you a rich condition, especially at idle and take off but once you get going, there is enuff air to keep it from fouling out while on the move. Just a guess without hands on. |
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Posted: 8/24/2010 2:05:13 PM
Thanks for the replies.
I just need to get the carbs off, clean them up and figure out what type they are, then i can figure out how to fix the problem. Seems like once i know if its metering fuel or air, it will be simple trial and error to get it to lean out a bit. |
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Posted: 8/24/2010 10:59:16 PM
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Originally Posted By eclark53520:
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Fouling on take off means its running too rich most likely or excessive Idling will load up a sparkplug along with being too rich. Lean it out and I bet it would be fine and gain a lil HP along the way. So a smaller main jet? I'm not too farmiliar with carbs as of now...i want to take them off and clean them up though over the winter. If its a 2stroke motor, Id bet the MIX was off. This will most definently cause those issues. Could be something that simple. I just thought about something else, first thing I would do is check the air filter, I bet its clogged or really dirty. I would pull plugs and put fresh ones in there, yank the filter and start it up, see what happens. The other thing would be the CHOKE. If its stuck or "on" too long, this could effect how it runs, some chokes control air, some control fuel. Not necessarily. Some carbs use Needles to control air, while some use it to control FUEL and some use jets the same way, depends on what type of carb is on there. . if you go smaller on AIR, your going richer, if your going smaller on FUEL, your going leaner, personally, Id go the opposite, If its a fuel jets, Id figure out how to get more air, More Air + More Fuel = more power. youd have to get a manual or check online to see how to LEAN that carb out. I would first clean it up real good. If it has air jet, it could just be clogged up some, giving you a rich condition, especially at idle and take off but once you get going, there is enuff air to keep it from fouling out while on the move. Just a guess without hands on. Outboards do not have air filters |
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Posted: 8/25/2010 10:35:23 AM
I was also thinking maybe it has week spark. Possible cause?
Might have to get a spark tester and see what it will jump. Might just be a weak coil... Course the carbs need to be cleaned too, and it may be a combination of the two. The owner of the boat says the only time he has a problem fouling plugs is right when the put it in the water and go to take off. Once they have the engine warmed up and running, it doesn't foul plugs. |
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Posted: 8/25/2010 10:57:37 AM
The OMC's use what is called a "power pack" for the ignition. They are known for failing but usually they will become intermittant first. The spark should jump a 1/4 inch gap. Clean the carbs first and see what happens. I don't have a manual in front of me so I have to ask, does this motor use choke "flaps" in the front of the carbs, or does it use a "primer solenoid"?
The reason I ask is the choke flaps may be sticking closed, or the primer solenoid could be hanging open causing a rich condition until the motor warms up and the flaps/solenoid works properly. I'll be back at work tomorrow and have access to the manual. Is this motor original to the boat? Do you have the model and serial number handy so I can get hold of the right manual? KB |
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Posted: 8/25/2010 11:17:11 AM
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
The OMC's use what is called a "power pack" for the ignition. They are known for failing but usually they will become intermittant first. The spark should jump a 1/4 inch gap. Clean the carbs first and see what happens. I don't have a manual in front of me so I have to ask, does this motor use choke "flaps" in the front of the carbs, or does it use a "primer solenoid"? The reason I ask is the choke flaps may be sticking closed, or the primer solenoid could be hanging open causing a rich condition until the motor warms up and the flaps/solenoid works properly. I'll be back at work tomorrow and have access to the manual. Is this motor original to the boat? Do you have the model and serial number handy so I can get hold of the right manual? KB I know that the choke is cable operated, although i don't have an intimate knowledge of exactly how it works beyond that. I would assume its flaps, but i don't know for sure. |
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Posted: 8/25/2010 12:15:19 PM
Good call on the weak spark. Ya gotta have Fuel, Air & Fire.
I think youll get it. check carb first like you intend to and then go from there. Keep us updated |
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Posted: 8/25/2010 1:21:42 PM
From the very limited amount of info you guys have on this boat, do you think $1500 is fair for this boat?
Comes with a 55lb bow mount trolling motor, a stern mount fish finder located at the steering console and a trolling motor mounted fish finder up front, the entire hull is solid, the gel coat shows signs of sun fade, but i'm pretty sure it can be revived easily with some work. Dual batteries and both were bought within the last year. Boat is already registered through 2013... The carpet is still in fairly good shape, the seats are in great shape. |
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Posted: 8/25/2010 1:33:42 PM
check craigslist for comparable pricing, but that seems a bit high, but im not into boats.
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Posted: 8/25/2010 3:41:05 PM
The only fishing boats i can find on craigslist that are around that age are listed anywhere between 1700-3000+ for some reason fishing boats seem to pull a premium. Anything in the 1990's is at least 3500.
Some of them don't even have running motors if they have motors attached at all. NADA has the hull itself listed(the 78 version anyway) at $980 without a motor. They have the motor listed at $80, which, you can't touch even a barely running 25 horse motor anywhere that i know of for less than $200....so idk where they are buying running motors for $80, but i want to find out. So i figure: Hull: $980 Motor: $500(craigslist price around here) Accessories: $200(trolling, fish finders, charger, etc) Plus the trailer is in great shape and tires are new 2 years ago with probably 5k miles on them at the most. So $1500 sounds about right to me...but then, i don't know much about boat prices either... |
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Posted: 8/26/2010 12:22:05 AM
Thats a fair price if you are sure the hull is in good shape. Check the transom for softness. Look for cracks at the bottom of the stern brackets (mounting brackets) and if it is depressed into the transom. Out here the trailer would be worth $500 at least.
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Posted: 8/31/2010 9:40:24 AM
So i'm pretty sure i'm going to end up buying this boat, he is not actively searching for buyers beyond me. So come the 17th of sept, i'm going to be a boat owner for the first time in my life.
i've been looking through parts at online retailers, carb kits, ignition tune up kits, lower unit oil, etc etc etc This is going to be fun, and maybe expensive....but i want this thing to be reliable. Nothing worse than hitting the lake and having to put it back on the trailer because it won't start. |
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Posted: 8/31/2010 1:42:07 PM
Before buying, do the following checks.
Compression –– minimum 100psi and I like to see 120psi or so. Cylinders must be within 15% of each other pressure wise. Check gearcase for water in the oil –– Loosen the bottom drain screw in the lower unit and see if any water or milky oil comes out. Spark –– must jump a 1/4 inch gap. General visual check –– look for frayed wiring, excessive oil/fuel leaks and hose condition (cracked or brittle). Take it for a lake test too. Just because it runs in the driveway on a hose doesn't mean it will perform on the water. Expect to install a new water pump impeller, lower unit lube, spark plugs and clean the carbs. The motor must be "sync-and linked" (synchronizing the carbs and timing) after the carbs have been removed and re-installed. Good luck KB |
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Posted: 9/1/2010 3:31:18 PM
I did do a compression check when i checked out the boat the first time, the bottom cylinder was 101, the other two were 112 and 114.
I didn't check the gearcase oil, spark i can fix later if its a problem. Lake test was done a few times as i have fished off this boat about 5 times with him while he has owned it. Runs good in the water. I planned on doing everything you mentioned. I have synced carbs before but not the timing...however, i don't see it being a problem for me. Thanks for the tips! |
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Posted: 9/20/2010 9:12:01 AM
Bought the boat on Saturday.
Went through it even more thuroughly than i did when i was buying the thing. Making sure everything was there and i knew where everything was. Adjusted the controls, the throttle was way to stiff. Headed out for the lake Sunday morning with a buddy of mine. Ran fine on the muffs, but we all know thats a lot different than running in the water. Get it in the lake, high throttle lever up, press for choke, turn key, and much to my joy, she fired off and ran like a top. Gotta love the smell of two stroke in the morning. Now for the (sorta) bad part. We take off after letting it warm up for a couple minutes and this thing refuses to get on plane. Its going about half speed(of what i know it can go). We tool across the lake at half speed, catch a 9" golden shiner, and it starts to rain. We take off for the other side of the lake because its not raining over there. Well, its is raining there once we get there so i decide to just run the engine around to try to get some of the old gas out of the tank. I had put a high ratio of Sea-Foam in it before leaving. After about 1.5 laps, it must have cleaned out the main jet(s) because this thing took off out of no where, planed out, and hauled ass. Went from not even registering on the speedo to 30mph(not fast i know, but its only a 70hp) I think after going through the carbs and doing some checks on the ignition system this engine is going to be in tip top shape. Boat was great all day, except the trolling battery needs to be replaced. Its 6 years old and was dead after only about an hour of trolling at speed 1 of 5 with random short bursts of 5. |
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Posted: 9/20/2010 9:17:53 AM
Things i'm going to do - (more of a list/plan for me, but thought i would put it up here for anyone that cares)
Short term - Replace trolling battery Lengthen the rod locker(currently 6'3") - Already took a hole saw to the end of it and there is nothing beyond it...some cutting and sanding and i'll be able to fit 8' rods up in there. Over the winter - Clean carbs Long term - Replace floor, its just starting to get a bit soggy by one of the floor drains. Easily supports my weight but you can feel a little bit of a give. |
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Posted: 9/20/2010 9:39:32 AM
Good deal, glad its working out for you
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Posted: 9/20/2010 10:18:01 AM
Check the fuel line connector at the motor. These will develope air leaks and cause the problem of lost power by letting air into the fuel system. Sorry 'bout the rain....send it my way!
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Posted: 9/20/2010 10:22:10 AM
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
Check the fuel line connector at the motor. These will develope air leaks and cause the problem of lost power by letting air into the fuel system. Sorry 'bout the rain....send it my way! Will do. What would have caused it to seal up and run great the rest of the day though? Just the vibration of the motor? Rain was bloody cold. At that point it was 51ºF out there and the rain was colder than that. We had rain poncho's on, but doing 30mph across a lake soaking wet...is a chilling experience. |
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Posted: 9/20/2010 10:26:47 AM
Yup, or it changed position slightly and sealed up. The OMC connectors are infamous for snagging the o-ring seal on the motor connector holes and shaving off some of the o-ring. I used to keep a couple of spare connectors on board when I had a Johnson 50.
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Posted: 9/20/2010 12:04:18 PM
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
Yup, or it changed position slightly and sealed up. The OMC connectors are infamous for snagging the o-ring seal on the motor connector holes and shaving off some of the o-ring. I used to keep a couple of spare connectors on board when I had a Johnson 50. Solid, thanks for the idea! |
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Posted: 9/22/2010 1:18:47 PM
Messing around with the boat last night...this is my first outboard so i was just looking at all the linkages and seeing how the shifting and throttle worked together along with the choke.
Its a solenoid choke system, you push in the key to activate the choke. The lever i was talking about before(before i knew what i was talking about) was a high idle lever. While i was checking it out i noticed that the linkages that activate the choke plates do not open all the way to the stopper once the choke is released. I could push it down to the stop by hand and it would stay there until the solenoid was activated again, and then it would hang up off the stopper. Could this be the cause for the engine running rich and fouling out the plugs? Looking at the carbs, it seems the gaskets on them are fairly new as far as i can tell, so they have been rebuilt within the last couple years it seems. Hoping i can adjust the solenoid and get the choke to open 100% and that will fix my plug fouling condition. Although, when i took it out for the first time, i didn't have any problems with plug fouling. I did have the low power, and a couple of times when i went to throttle on(in the first part of the day) it died...so maybe the choke plates were closed a bit causing me problems....idk, just thinking out loud here. |
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Posted: 9/22/2010 4:23:43 PM
[Last Edit: 9/22/2010 4:29:42 PM by KB7DX]
The choke plates should return to the 100% open state when the solenoid releases. Can you see what it is hanging up on?
Maybe install a small return spring on the choke plate linkage if you can't find anything binding the linkage. There should also be a manual choke lever on the airbox. Check its function too. The carbs and ignition timing need to be synchronized too. This may explain the stalling on acceleration. Do you have a manual for the motor? Give me the model and serial number and I can send you some service info, like carb/timing synchronization instructions. KB |
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