So a friend is joining another friend and I camping next month, following that we're going to do a backpacking weekender, so it got me thinking...

"Hypothetically, what is the cheapest I could get him into basic 3-season backpacking gear without it weighing 60lb or falling apart after 48hr?"

Here is what I've got in mind.
Pack: Jansport Katahdin 60 $60 (could also search for ebay deals)
Tent: Kelty Grand Mesa 2 $80
Bag: MSS Patrol bag $27 -or- Kelty Cosmic Down 20 $100
Pad: Blue CCF pad $7 -or- Klymit static V $45
Total: $174 - $285

What would you change on this list without getting any more expensive or adding significant weight?
For the sake of this situation, forget about "buy once, cry once", the stuff is inexpensive and easily resold to recoup initial investment.

Not too concerned about the other, relatively low-dollar items (nalgene $10, sawyer mini $20, cookset $20, Amazon ultralight stove $6, Mora knife $13, etc) since I have many extras and he does have some gear. Let's forget sharing gear for the sake of the hypothetical solo trip.

Scratch the tent and go with a Tarp and Hammock... $30 total

Good call, didn't think about hammocks though I know they're all the rage these days... However what hammock and tarp is only $30?

I'm thinking Yukon Outfitters hammock $20 + Yukon rain fly $20 both on Woot would be the cheapest out there (add $10 for shipping and slings). Nice $30 savings!

I use a cheapo blue/silver tarp from wallyworld....

Cheap $20 blue hammock too for that matter...

Go talk to a carpet store and ask for some carpet padding scraps to use as a pad. Buy a a tarp larger than
you need for a shelter and make a cover for the carpet padding with some of it. Seal the seams with duct tape.

If you want someone to ENJOY backpacking, set them up for success. You may unintentionally bring someone to hate "roughing it" if you cheap out on gear.

try and get them into nicer boots, backpack, sleeping pad and sleeping bag.

Without good boots they will hate hiking. I like Merrells but a Vibram sole is a good starting point and other cheaper brands will do alright.

Without a good backpack they will hate hiking with a load. Try and budget $150 and if you can go to an REI and try them on, maybe a cheaper pack fits you great!

Without a comfortable and warm sleeping mat they will hate sleeping on the ground. one of thr Neoair ones or an Exped Synmat UL-7 are two of the more popular models.

After those three I would budget towards sleeping bag, as a better, warmer, more packable sleeping bag contributes towards being well rested and also frees up volume in the packed bag, which is helpful if other cheaper gear is being used.

I don't want this stuff to fall apart in 48hrs.


He has clothes/footwear covered, which is why i didn't even mention it.
I agree with your premise 100%, but getting inexpensive gear doesn't have to mean buying junk. At the same time, you don't have to spend a ton to get quality gear; I paid $390 for my marmot meteor 15, big agnes fishhook ul2, and 2014 gregory Z55.

All of the items I've listed are either well-known, quality budget items and/or items I've used myself and wouldn't hesitate to recommend. Kelty cosmic down 20 and grand mesa 2 are both highly rated, tough to beat budget items. Blue CCF pads are used by many, while the Klymit static V is the best deal in an inflatable pad IMO.

Please feel free to offer alternative gear options inline with my OP, that's the point of this thread.

1 quart gatorade bottles are cheaper and lighter.  Also look into making an alcohol stove from a couple of pepsi cans; easy to do.
Are you near Asheville by any chance?  If so check out The Frugal Backpacker; they can have some awesome deals

To answer your question, I will think about my best budget picks - I have long since transitioned into a higher end lightweight setup so sharing my gear may not be helpful.

My main point is that I once started off with cheap gear, and now I have a big rubbermaid bin full of cheap gear that I will NEVER use, nobody has ever really wanted any of it, I wind up giving it away to anybody whenever I hear "my kid just got into scouting!" Or whoever wants it.

A cheaper synthetic sleeping bag might be "worth it" as you can keep it in your truck all winter as survival gear, that's what I do with mine now.

My first air mattress ( big agnes clearview) is all yellowed and hasn't been inflated in probably a year or two (Or three!) It didn't have enough "R" value to justify carrying around, I went to a thermarest Z-lite which was warmer and more comfortable. Money down the drain.

My probably first THREE cooking setups were all problematic. One was GSI stainless steel, it worked OK but once I started weighing my gear, it just had to be replaced due to weight. Also FUCK alcohol stoves, they take a lot of tinkering to get right and newbies can pretty easily light their gear on fire with them, or fail to get a propper boil going. All wasted cash.

On hindsight I would rather have just put down money on quality from the start.

For a pack, go to the sporting goods store and try them on. Buy what fits properly. Our local Dick's has some decent brands - Kelty, Osprey, etc.

I don't really have a cheap sleeping bag pick, under a hundred bucks I would go synthetic, sub $100 you'll get crap quality down. I currently use an REI flash sleeping bag ($250) with water resistant down on top, and synthetic fill underside. I also have a. ENLIGHTENED EQUIPMENT revelation quilt - these are semi custom made hiker blankets, top quality down, available from $150-250, and a serious "bang-for-buck" deal regarding down insulation per-dollar.

For a sleeping mat, I would upgrade from the big blue CCF pad and into a thermarest Z-lite pad, it is a little bit more comfortable in the long run, if you get the longest version you can cut a few sections off and use them as a sit down pad or door-mat.

For a blowup mattress I LOVE my Klymit inertia X-frame. It goes INSIDE your sleeping bag, the attached hand pump lets you add or subtract pressure in the mattress. the x-frame lets your bag loft umderneath you and helps add substantial warmth, beyond it's indicated R value. FYI I am using BOTH a klymit pad AND a foam mat. non-insulated pads offer comfort, the foam offers the warmth. The foam ALSO keeps the blow up pad safe from punctures.

Maybe I would try and hold off on buying a budget oriented shelter - does anybody else in your group have space for your buddy to sleep in their tent? If not, maybe a quality bivvy sack and a cheap blue tarp are better options - the bivvy sack will have utility for your friend into the future (moreso than a crap tent!)

If he needs his own tent for sure, a $100 tent is workable, but a $200 price-point gets you in the realm of "keeper" tents. The REI quarter-dome or half-dome II tents are both nicely equipped. A tarp tent double rainbow will be a favorite for a lifetime.

Dual entries, dual vestibules are a MUST imo.

For water: a mix of 1Liter and 0.5Liter water bottles (almost free) are your best options, really. Get ones with the thicker plastic and more full caps,  not the newest "40% less plastic!) Poland spring ones.

Get the cheap two part iodine tablets for $6.00 - I have the Sawyer mini, it DOES NOT have enough flow To be useful for a camper.

For a mess kit, buy the GSI halulite soloist - it's a sippee mug with insulated sleeve, you can cook on the metal vessel, it comes with a little hot pot gripper. Discard the folding spork & knife, buy the $1 fork knife and spoon. Get the MSR pocket rocket stove. I have a piezo-light stove, its a little more and convenient, or you can pack a couple bic's to spark your stove. The GSI kit will fit the stove and a mini fuel can.

Talk your friend into buying trekking poles, they are worth it.

Blackghost, thanks for the replies. I guess I should have been more clear that this is 80% hypothetical. I have extra everything except for a pack that he could use. You could also say it's a bit of a deal hunting exercise since most of the gear I've posted is half off.

I've seen a number of different blogs that address budget backpacking gear lists but most I've found are 3yr+ old and/or I think could be even better if you take into account the deals to be had out there.

I thought about the Z lite pad, still very reasonably priced, good R value, and a good in between price-wise compared to my posted options. Funny, the haulite is exactly what I had in mind but since I have a micro dualist he won't have to worry about that until he does a solo trip.

I will agree with all of the above with hiking gear unfortunatly you get the ol' "pick two" problem: Light, Cheap, Quality.   Honestly I too have tons of gear I have upgraded past that I keep for loan outs. See if anybody nearby has a few things that he can borrow. Then He can whet his whistle and then start investing in some good stuff. also, for a first hike split equipment. Use your water fil/pur and cookset. Gatorade bottles and a campcup can go along way. once he gets into it, have him get good reviews. You relly do get what you payfor. My Enlightend Equipment Top/Under quilt set is rated to 0 and I cant tell if I have it in my pack.

I also have the halulite kettle which is great for boiling btw.

Eta I have a "wide" 20deg rated revelation X. plus I had it over stuffed so it is probably more like a 10-15 degree rated bag, it was $185 and weighs in at 24oz even. I can even shift the down out of one row of baffles to make it a thicker single width quilt, I have travelled extensively with mine!

solo I use the rev-x quilt but I got the REI flash sleeping bag to attach with my GF's flash womens bag, anyone doing couple-camping, get zip-together bags, trust me!

you can tolerate a lot for a weekend.

telling someone they have to spend $500 or $1000 just to go backpacking is a real good way to convince them to never go backpacking at all.

my inclination would be to wait for it to warm up some as you can more easily skimp on gear.

IMO, the biggest issue with any kind of hiking is footwear. If your feet are cold, wet, and/or uncomfortable nothing else matters. take him for some longish hikes first to make sure his footwear suits him. Get him to wear at least a 30 pound back during the hike so he can get used to the weight. A lot of people regardless of their physical condition cannot take even that much weight, especially with a poorly fitting pack.

Once he has suitable footwear and a pack, most of the rest of the stuff is easier.

there is probably a few pounds of gear that he can forego buying and carting around to simplify things for him if you let him use some of the stuff you will have to carry anyway (think water filters and a stove as just two).

I do agree with scrapping the tent. I have a hammock, but bringing it depends on where I'll be camping and if I want to be off the ground. I usually just bring a tarp, pad, and a ground tarp barely big enough to put under my pad. With two trees/branches/trekking poles, a few stakes, and some 550 cord you can set up a Thelma fly really easily and on the cheap.

If you still really want a tent over a tarp, its not the cheapest but I have a Black Diamond Mega Light tent. Its a monopole tent, so 4 stakes and one pole is all you need. I've also used the GoLite Shangri La which held up really well in a nasty rainstorm one night.

I use a Thermarest Z-lite, I like it better than inflatables because I had a Big Agnes spring a leak on me on day 4 of a 10 day trip.

Jansport makes really good bang for your buck packs, I have one that has worked well. I also have an old Deuter aircontact 75 that I picked up for $50, which has worked amazingly well with 50lb loads, and its really adjustable If you have a average size torso. It is also a no frills pack, it has two pocket on the dome and one main compartment.

Guys, come on, stop being so concerned about my friend in this mostly hypothetical situation, I'm almost sorry I mentioned him I'm trying to keep it simple and focus on the basic gear here for someone trying to get into the sport on the cheap. Ditching one item to spend more on another does not accomplish the goal here. I hate when people close a thread when it doesn't go their way so I won't do that but let's try to make specific gear recommendations or just tell me this was a dumb idea and let the thread die.

ilbob, thank you! "telling someone they have to spend $500 or $1000 just to go backpacking is a real good way to convince them to never go backpacking at all." is exactly what I'm trying to overcome with this thread, but it's proving to be rather difficult.


So it looks like we so far have the below budget alternatives:

Pack: no alternative ($60)
Tent: Yukon Outfitters hammock $25 + Yukon rainfly $25 -or- tarp ???
Bag: no alternative ($27-100)
Pad: Ridgerest SOLite pad $30 -or- Thermarest Z-Lite $40
Total: $167 - $250

Not bad, and a nice weight savings with the hammock vs tent.

Look at the Grand Trunk Ultralight Hammock. They're a little nicer than the Yukon outfitters ones, and only slightly more expensive at $30.


The Kelty bag you listed is probably the best "do it all" bag available on the market. You should not buy any other bag. However, since it's down, might be worth investing in a waterproof stuff sack. Don't need to do it right off the bat, since you can put the bag in a trash bag and be ok, but the next thing on his list should be a waterproof stuff sack.




The Thermarest Z lite is probably a better pad than the Klymit, since I've seen issues with Klymit pads falling apart. The Z Lite is the pad for the AT through-hiker, so I wouldn't go with anything different.




The only concern I have is the pack. A crap pack is going to make you miserable. It might be worth looking on Geartrade.com for a used North Face or Osprey. It would be a little more expensive, but you'd pick up a significantly better pack for just a few dollars more. I had a friend get a brand new 35 L North Face backpack with an airspeed style suspension and an integrated rainfly for $90.


 

As an example of what you can find on geartrade: http://www.geartrade.com/item/424944/osprey-atmos-50-original Osprey has a lifetime warranty, so you buy this, send it back to Osprey for a new sternum strap, and you're good to go. If you look around on the site, you can find 36-50 L packs for $60-110, that are far nicer than that Jansport bag you suggested, and will be far more comfortable. Plus, with the money you're saving by ditching the tent, you can get a nicer pack.

one of the problems with hypothetical situations is that everyone wants to pick on the assumptions being made.

for one thing, we do not know if the guy has any experience at even car camping. if someone has never slept on the ground before, even inside a tent, backpack camping could well be a huge first step that should not be attempted.

hammock camping is kind of an advanced thing. it is probably not something you want to throw at someone their first time out. at least have them try out the hammock in their own yard a few nights first.

just sleeping on the cold, hard ground the first few times takes some getting used to. again, better to try that out in your back yard the first few times.

ditching a tent in favor of more primitive and lighterweight stuff is maybe a good idea for a more experienced person but tents are a lot more rain proof and there is nothing more miserable than being wet and cold out in the woods.

Surplus Military Therm-A-Rest self inflating Sleeping Mat $20 at most surplus stores





If your two choices are the MSS patrol bag or a $100 down bag, why not just get a full MSS? They're around $100 and you get much more flexibility as far as temps and you get a bivy bag.


Alternatively you could combine the patrol bag with a poncho liner or cheapo synthetic fleece blanket to stretch its use a little more for around $40 all told.  






 

Looking at the rest of the list, this is clearly a summer backpacking setup. While yes, hammock camping in the winter requires a "Post-graduate" level of skill and knowledge, in the summer, it requires the same amount of knowledge as your average Amazon tribesman. Lie in hammock diagonally, wake up in the morning.

 

And, if this individual is smart, he's not going anywhere if there's bad weather. To start backpacking, he should only be planning trips when the weather is going to be perfect, and the rain gear exists as a backup for the occasional freak storm.


While yes, he will eventually encounter the suffering that comes from being out in the woods, to start with, the goal is to make things as accessible and comfortable as possible. He's only go to be in his sleep system for six hours a day, while he'll have all his stuff on his back for twelve. Hence why the hammock is a better idea.


After he gets I to it in the summer, then he'll have an idea of what he wants and needs to start going out in worse weather. Or he decides he hates backpacking, in which case he has a hammock, which is a lot easier to find non-camping uses for than a tent.

Because the MSS is both idiotically heavy, and does not compress. A down bag will be smaller and lighter, and will fit into a backpack that costs less money.

 

cheap mat alternative yoga mat $19

ratcheting tie downs are an easy way to set up a hammock and they are $13

grand trunk ultralight hammock $16

Ugly blue tarp $7

cheap pack $35

cheap bag $37

$127 +shipping

Have him keep in mind that he will probably want upgrades along the way after a few trips. If he enjoys himself then the upgrades will be worth it. If he hates it, then he isn't out much. I dont vouch for any of the products that I posted. I love my setup and will vouch for it, but it is more expensive.

Cheapest way to get into backpacking?

100 or 200 dollar backpack.  Used, high quality ones may be found for sale. Err on the side of more modern designs, not less.

Used down bag, whether M1949 surplus or used civilian.

Homemade cat food can alcohol stove.

SAK Recruit or equivalent

Any 1 or 2 qt. aluminum pot with lid

Matches

Fuzzy jacket

Tarp + rope

Sun Screen/ DEET repellant

++++++++++++++

This list will do for the Sierras, in the Summer.

I backpack and camp during all seasons in Kentucky. You can get started for $60.

My gear for shelter:

-Cheap blue tarp, $10  (you won't even need to set this up unless it starts raining)

-Grand Turk Hammock, $20

-Cheap wally-world sleeping 20 degree bag, $30, (In the winter, if it will be below freezing point, I take two 20* bags and use them both).

-Any backpack will work. (you should already have one...)



The nice thing about hammock camping is that you don't need a pillow, you don't need a sleeping pad, and they are much lighter and smaller than tents.