Archived Posts » 59,726,163
Room/House clearing techniques
12/9/2009 8:28:55 PM
Who out there offers good instruction on room/house clearing techniques with a long gun for a civilian?
12/9/2009 8:44:48 PM
Wait for the professionals??
12/9/2009 9:26:41 PM
Originally Posted By thatguy:
Wait for the professionals??
Wait for the professionals??
THIS!
But if you'd like to do some reading try here for starters....
12/10/2009 9:51:57 AM
I was thinking something more along the line of a course that actually teaches someone the fundamentals of clearing their house if they hear something go bump in the night. My newly developed home self defense plan calls for the fiance to stay in the bedroom armed and on the phone to police while I go for the kids and regroup back in the bedroom. So I'm looking for a course that is geared toward moving in a CQB environment with my AR. I would prefer something that has a shoot house scenario in it.
12/11/2009 12:40:53 PM
check out www.bushidotactical.com - I have taken the level 1 carbine and waiting to take level 2, which may cover your area of interest. Give Wade a call, top notch instructor.
12/11/2009 12:53:18 PM
Indian food usually works for me...
12/11/2009 2:29:12 PM
Move the kids' room closer to your room.
Don't go looking for bad guys alone inside a building.
That's all I'm going to say.
Don't go looking for bad guys alone inside a building.
That's all I'm going to say.
12/12/2009 8:20:32 PM
leave the light on your weapon on at all times
hold your weapon up high by your head, this makes sure no one can grab it from you
dont pie corners its too slow, just jump around them
you always want to use one person per floor level to clear a structure
always ask if anyone is in a room before you enter, you wouldnt want to shoot a family member
make sure when you do enter a room you want to stay in the door frame before commiting, you need to look the entire room over first
dont worry about over penetration if he cant see you he cant hit you
i think that about covers how to clear a house by yourself
hold your weapon up high by your head, this makes sure no one can grab it from you
dont pie corners its too slow, just jump around them
you always want to use one person per floor level to clear a structure
always ask if anyone is in a room before you enter, you wouldnt want to shoot a family member
make sure when you do enter a room you want to stay in the door frame before commiting, you need to look the entire room over first
dont worry about over penetration if he cant see you he cant hit you
i think that about covers how to clear a house by yourself
12/12/2009 11:20:17 PM
Originally Posted By CAsoldier:
leave the light on your weapon on at all times
hold your weapon up high by your head, this makes sure no one can grab it from you
dont pie corners its too slow, just jump around them
you always want to use one person per floor level to clear a structure
always ask if anyone is in a room before you enter, you wouldnt want to shoot a family member
make sure when you do enter a room you want to stay in the door frame before commiting, you need to look the entire room over first
dont worry about over penetration if he cant see you he cant hit you
i think that about covers how to clear a house by yourself
leave the light on your weapon on at all times
hold your weapon up high by your head, this makes sure no one can grab it from you
dont pie corners its too slow, just jump around them
you always want to use one person per floor level to clear a structure
always ask if anyone is in a room before you enter, you wouldnt want to shoot a family member
make sure when you do enter a room you want to stay in the door frame before commiting, you need to look the entire room over first
dont worry about over penetration if he cant see you he cant hit you
i think that about covers how to clear a house by yourself
I plan on copying this and puting it on the briefing room wall
12/12/2009 11:21:37 PM
Originally Posted By 87GN:
Move the kids' room closer to your room.
Don't go looking for bad guys alone inside a building.
That's all I'm going to say.
Move the kids' room closer to your room.
Don't go looking for bad guys alone inside a building.
That's all I'm going to say.
plus 12 million, they call it a S.W.A.T. TEAM not S.W.A.T. PERSON
no offense, just telling you what you obviously NEED to know.
12/13/2009 2:42:44 PM
ok...when clearing a room/house... what gives the bad guy the advantage ? (...or does he even have an advantage?)
12/13/2009 3:45:24 PM
Originally Posted By BattletweeteR:
ok...when clearing a room/house... what gives the bad guy the advantage ? (...or does he even have an advantage?)
ok...when clearing a room/house... what gives the bad guy the advantage ? (...or does he even have an advantage?)
- Mindset for one thing, because he is in YOUR house, you are already on the defensive
- Numbers for another, while you may have unarmed innocents to protect, "he" may actually be "they"
- Equipment is another consideration, many home invaders have body armor and semi auto rifles, you may or may not be so equipped
- Training also, you probably have never been in such a situation (this goes along with mindset) while your opponent(s) may have done this before, several times
- The dynamics of fighting inside a house cannot be summed up into an internet post, honestly
12/13/2009 4:03:20 PM
If you truly are concerned about this, move your family rooms to the same location. Practice everyone running to the rally point-a defensible internal position you CAN DEFEND. That point should contain initial or extra essentials you may need, including clothing, comm (cell phones) , lights, passifier, etc. Practice just like you should practice a fire evacuation drill. It is eessential all players retreat to the specified location immediately, without thinking, while you provide cover.
I can not emphasize enough, that you should NOT be 'clearing' your house-for any reason. You should plan ahead and move your valuable assets coser to you to defend/shelter in place. This short paragraph is simply that-a concise piece of advice that you will not regret should you implement it.
I can not emphasize enough, that you should NOT be 'clearing' your house-for any reason. You should plan ahead and move your valuable assets coser to you to defend/shelter in place. This short paragraph is simply that-a concise piece of advice that you will not regret should you implement it.
12/15/2009 2:03:03 PM
You know, the man asked an honest question. There have been a few honest answers. The rest have been ***holes. Sitting tight and waiting for "SWAT" may not be an option. Not all departments have swat and most of the ones that do, it takes an hour or more to respond. That is generally at least 30 minutes after the initial 911 call. Most of the patrol officers/deputies may not be any better than the quy who asked the question and for a smaller or rural department, it could take 10 to 30 minutes to get there. If you think that I am going to cower in my bed room while the BG or BG's have their way with my family, you are out of your gord. I understand that I am not going to do them any good if I get killed or injured but I won't do them any good cowering like a sheep either. I know one person moving through a home is less than optimal (to say the least), but tell me you could wait for "SWAT" while your kids are being raped or murdered. Sorry, I can't. Most people can't move a kids bedroom closer. Most homes are also to small to have a rally point. These are good ideas for larger homes or homes that have all the bedrooms on one end or one floor. For the smaller homes, the only rally point may have the family moving through the most likely place for the BG's to be. I have been taught how to clear a building and do it on a regular basis. I also practice moving through my own home. It sucks but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. For jollyg83, you can find some info on the internet and some books. You are right in searching out a hands on school but I don't know of any that teach civilians. Hopefully you can find one that does. Good luck.
12/15/2009 2:10:51 PM
Originally Posted By bbull311:
You know, the man asked an honest question. There have been a few honest answers. The rest have been ***holes. Sitting tight and waiting for "SWAT" may not be an option. Not all departments have swat and most of the ones that do, it takes an hour or more to respond. That is generally at least 30 minutes after the initial 911 call. Most of the patrol officers/deputies may not be any better than the quy who asked the question and for a smaller or rural department, it could take 10 to 30 minutes to get there. If you think that I am going to cower in my bed room while the BG or BG's have their way with my family, you are out of your gord. I understand that I am not going to do them any good if I get killed or injured but I won't do them any good cowering like a sheep either. I know one person moving through a home is less than optimal (to say the least), but tell me you could wait for "SWAT" while your kids are being raped or murdered. Sorry, I can't. Most people can't move a kids bedroom closer. Most homes are also to small to have a rally point. These are good ideas for larger homes or homes that have all the bedrooms on one end or one floor. For the smaller homes, the only rally point may have the family moving through the most likely place for the BG's to be. I have been taught how to clear a building and do it on a regular basis. I also practice moving through my own home. It sucks but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. For jollyg83, you can find some info on the internet and some books. You are right in searching out a hands on school but I don't know of any that teach civilians. Hopefully you can find one that does. Good luck.
You know, the man asked an honest question. There have been a few honest answers. The rest have been ***holes. Sitting tight and waiting for "SWAT" may not be an option. Not all departments have swat and most of the ones that do, it takes an hour or more to respond. That is generally at least 30 minutes after the initial 911 call. Most of the patrol officers/deputies may not be any better than the quy who asked the question and for a smaller or rural department, it could take 10 to 30 minutes to get there. If you think that I am going to cower in my bed room while the BG or BG's have their way with my family, you are out of your gord. I understand that I am not going to do them any good if I get killed or injured but I won't do them any good cowering like a sheep either. I know one person moving through a home is less than optimal (to say the least), but tell me you could wait for "SWAT" while your kids are being raped or murdered. Sorry, I can't. Most people can't move a kids bedroom closer. Most homes are also to small to have a rally point. These are good ideas for larger homes or homes that have all the bedrooms on one end or one floor. For the smaller homes, the only rally point may have the family moving through the most likely place for the BG's to be. I have been taught how to clear a building and do it on a regular basis. I also practice moving through my own home. It sucks but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. For jollyg83, you can find some info on the internet and some books. You are right in searching out a hands on school but I don't know of any that teach civilians. Hopefully you can find one that does. Good luck.
12/15/2009 2:19:48 PM
I am trying to keep the man from getting killed also. If you read my post it stated that clearing a building by yourself isn't the best thing to do but sometimes you don't have an option. So, how about helping the man out and give him an idea where he can get some training.
12/15/2009 4:27:18 PM
I supplied the best advice my knowledge, skills, and experience allowed me to. I do not know of any reputable schools advocating or instructing students on indivudual urban clearing techniques. And none of the legitimate advice here suggested that the defender cower, nor suggested he let his family be assaulted. The suggestion was to train in advance on protecting the family while gathered together in a defensible unit. The prior proper preparedness procedures were to ensure the family unit is trained on immediately retreating to a rally point that is defensible. Once your most valuable assets are together with you protecting them, they can have they way with you personal chattel until LE arrives.
I appreciate the OP wanting to better him/herself and wanting to best serve his family in time of invasion crisis. I , and 87GN supplied best practices advise, since we are not advocates of any other unsafe methods. Sorry if that pissed you off-just offered sage and sound advice.
I appreciate the OP wanting to better him/herself and wanting to best serve his family in time of invasion crisis. I , and 87GN supplied best practices advise, since we are not advocates of any other unsafe methods. Sorry if that pissed you off-just offered sage and sound advice.
12/15/2009 7:01:10 PM
Originally Posted By jollyg83:
I was thinking something more along the line of a course that actually teaches someone the fundamentals of clearing their house if they hear something go bump in the night. My newly developed home self defense plan calls for the fiance to stay in the bedroom armed and on the phone to police while I go for the kids and regroup back in the bedroom.
I was thinking something more along the line of a course that actually teaches someone the fundamentals of clearing their house if they hear something go bump in the night. My newly developed home self defense plan calls for the fiance to stay in the bedroom armed and on the phone to police while I go for the kids and regroup back in the bedroom.
It appears to me you have asked 2 different - although related - questions.
My opinion:
1. Don't clear your entire house alone.
2. Needing to travel armed to your kids room seems like a valid need to me.
I have read some great reviews regarding Valhalla Training, although I've never been there.
Good luck.
12/16/2009 8:41:45 PM
if you really truely have no choice but to go it alone check out gabe suarez and massad ayoob (sp?) both have books about this kind of thing some good principals to follow are to
be quiet, no noise at all, no cat calling shit. stop and listen often try to figure out how many people are inside and where they are/moving to
be slow and methodical, your mindset should be of one whos on the hunt
use your enviroment, look at your mirrors/reflective surfaces in the house, watch for shadows, movement etc and stay low
pie your corners off slowly, and check high and low, always check high and low (1/3 rule)
get a weapon with a light but dont use it if you dont have too, it will give your position away, sometimes its best to let your eyes adjust (assuming its dark) dont backlight yourself
dont flag your barrel around corners, low ready, arm tuck, whatever you train just dont round that corner with the barrel high unless you have the advantage of suprise and/or numbers
always assume there is at least one more guy than what you just saw (camper, sleeper, +1 etc)
dont worry, as soon as things go bad, you probably wont remember any of this stuff
good luck!
be quiet, no noise at all, no cat calling shit. stop and listen often try to figure out how many people are inside and where they are/moving to
be slow and methodical, your mindset should be of one whos on the hunt
use your enviroment, look at your mirrors/reflective surfaces in the house, watch for shadows, movement etc and stay low
pie your corners off slowly, and check high and low, always check high and low (1/3 rule)
get a weapon with a light but dont use it if you dont have too, it will give your position away, sometimes its best to let your eyes adjust (assuming its dark) dont backlight yourself
dont flag your barrel around corners, low ready, arm tuck, whatever you train just dont round that corner with the barrel high unless you have the advantage of suprise and/or numbers
always assume there is at least one more guy than what you just saw (camper, sleeper, +1 etc)
dont worry, as soon as things go bad, you probably wont remember any of this stuff
good luck!12/16/2009 9:11:27 PM
Who out there offers good instruction on room/house clearing techniques with a long gun for a civilian?
Gunsite, Paulden, Arizona
Gunsite, Paulden, Arizona
12/23/2009 10:23:33 AM
Bring the chick and her gun. You don't clear houses alone. TWO people can do it and cover all the angles. Not the greatest but it can be done. Four or six is better of course, but getting both of you with the guns/phone to the kids and forting up THERE is what I would do.
If she has a gun, she needs training. Basic "cover my back and this side" training is enough to cover the lesser threat areas as you move, but more training is always good.
If she has a gun, she needs training. Basic "cover my back and this side" training is enough to cover the lesser threat areas as you move, but more training is always good.
12/23/2009 8:46:56 PM
Sitting tight and waiting for LE's to respond is not an option for a lot of people. Most towns in my area don't have 24 hour PD's, and the ones that do are being subjected to huge budget cuts. I called for backup one night, and the State Police said they could respond in 40 minutes, and that was my closest backup.
SWAT Teams? Sure. The only SRT Team that will respond to our town is the MA State Police STOP Team. They have a 4 hour response time. That's a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time to be waiting in your bedroom with a phone in your hand.
SWAT Teams? Sure. The only SRT Team that will respond to our town is the MA State Police STOP Team. They have a 4 hour response time. That's a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time to be waiting in your bedroom with a phone in your hand.
12/23/2009 9:45:05 PM
I don't have any training, but it seems that a better plan might be to take the wife to help you get to the kids room and then stay there. The less you are exposing yourself and moving around the better. Unless you have a good reason to bring the kids back to your room. As said having her get basic train would be helpful. Also make sure the room that you plan on going to as well as the backup plan has an escape route directly out of the house. It would suck to get barricaded in the room and your house lit on fire. Unlikely, but so is your house getting invaded. It also is not a bad idea for general fire preparedness, to have multiple escape routes.
12/23/2009 11:37:18 PM
Originally Posted By Hawgleg44:
Sitting tight and waiting for LE's to respond is not an option for a lot of people. Most towns in my area don't have 24 hour PD's, and the ones that do are being subjected to huge budget cuts. I called for backup one night, and the State Police said they could respond in 40 minutes, and that was my closest backup.
SWAT Teams? Sure. The only SRT Team that will respond to our town is the MA State Police STOP Team. They have a 4 hour response time. That's a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time to be waiting in your bedroom with a phone in your hand.
Sitting tight and waiting for LE's to respond is not an option for a lot of people. Most towns in my area don't have 24 hour PD's, and the ones that do are being subjected to huge budget cuts. I called for backup one night, and the State Police said they could respond in 40 minutes, and that was my closest backup.
SWAT Teams? Sure. The only SRT Team that will respond to our town is the MA State Police STOP Team. They have a 4 hour response time. That's a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time to be waiting in your bedroom with a phone in your hand.
your reading comprehension SUCKS, or there was some other motivation for you to post this.
NO ONE said you had to wait for a special team to arrive. Where did you come up with that? The folks with good advice are suggesting you 'shelter in place' and defend a defensible place with your most valuable assets with you.
From your post, I infer you are LE, security, or some form of public servant. If that is the case, you should know that the first response is likley to be a uniformed officer in a marked unit. That is all that is needed to thwart most burglars from maintaining. And if the perp is determinde to cause harm to the human occupants, you are in a differrent sitrep to begin with. And, by the way, static defense is the best choice for the occupant in that situation also.
Forgive me for as not being as dramatic as you and not using quite so many vowels in one word, but we are suggesting the looong wait be one in which a long arm or pistol is in use, not just a phone. I really hate to be so 'forceful' in responding (especially near Christmas), but you have either misread all the good advice, you have some strange agenda, or you are wanting ARFCOMers to think......
12/24/2009 12:02:28 AM
with 17 years EP experience, one thing we usually did is, if possible, is to wire one light per room and a main three way switch.
This switch is placed either in the master bedroom or in one of the childrens room. This way, should you want to, or have to, you
can flick the switch and light your entire house up.
NOW,,,,, when you go looking, if you absolutely have to,, your world is illuminated. Searching a darkened house with nothing but
a flashlight is suicide,,
Installing several loud sirens in your house with several switches (or you can put it on remote control) is also easy to do, and can help
'scare' away someone,, however, if the BG is committed, noise will not deter him / them.
This switch is placed either in the master bedroom or in one of the childrens room. This way, should you want to, or have to, you
can flick the switch and light your entire house up.
NOW,,,,, when you go looking, if you absolutely have to,, your world is illuminated. Searching a darkened house with nothing but
a flashlight is suicide,,
Installing several loud sirens in your house with several switches (or you can put it on remote control) is also easy to do, and can help
'scare' away someone,, however, if the BG is committed, noise will not deter him / them.
12/24/2009 8:14:11 PM
Originally Posted By FiftyCalAl:
your reading comprehension SUCKS, or there was some other motivation for you to post this.
NO ONE said you had to wait for a special team to arrive. Where did you come up with that? The folks with good advice are suggesting you 'shelter in place' and defend a defensible place with your most valuable assets with you.
From your post, I infer you are LE, security, or some form of public servant. If that is the case, you should know that the first response is likley to be a uniformed officer in a marked unit. That is all that is needed to thwart most burglars from maintaining. And if the perp is determinde to cause harm to the human occupants, you are in a differrent sitrep to begin with. And, by the way, static defense is the best choice for the occupant in that situation also.
Forgive me for as not being as dramatic as you and not using quite so many vowels in one word, but we are suggesting the looong wait be one in which a long arm or pistol is in use, not just a phone. I really hate to be so 'forceful' in responding (especially near Christmas), but you have either misread all the good advice, you have some strange agenda, or you are wanting ARFCOMers to think......
Originally Posted By Hawgleg44:
Sitting tight and waiting for LE's to respond is not an option for a lot of people. Most towns in my area don't have 24 hour PD's, and the ones that do are being subjected to huge budget cuts. I called for backup one night, and the State Police said they could respond in 40 minutes, and that was my closest backup.
SWAT Teams? Sure. The only SRT Team that will respond to our town is the MA State Police STOP Team. They have a 4 hour response time. That's a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time to be waiting in your bedroom with a phone in your hand.
Sitting tight and waiting for LE's to respond is not an option for a lot of people. Most towns in my area don't have 24 hour PD's, and the ones that do are being subjected to huge budget cuts. I called for backup one night, and the State Police said they could respond in 40 minutes, and that was my closest backup.
SWAT Teams? Sure. The only SRT Team that will respond to our town is the MA State Police STOP Team. They have a 4 hour response time. That's a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time to be waiting in your bedroom with a phone in your hand.
your reading comprehension SUCKS, or there was some other motivation for you to post this.
NO ONE said you had to wait for a special team to arrive. Where did you come up with that? The folks with good advice are suggesting you 'shelter in place' and defend a defensible place with your most valuable assets with you.
From your post, I infer you are LE, security, or some form of public servant. If that is the case, you should know that the first response is likley to be a uniformed officer in a marked unit. That is all that is needed to thwart most burglars from maintaining. And if the perp is determinde to cause harm to the human occupants, you are in a differrent sitrep to begin with. And, by the way, static defense is the best choice for the occupant in that situation also.
Forgive me for as not being as dramatic as you and not using quite so many vowels in one word, but we are suggesting the looong wait be one in which a long arm or pistol is in use, not just a phone. I really hate to be so 'forceful' in responding (especially near Christmas), but you have either misread all the good advice, you have some strange agenda, or you are wanting ARFCOMers to think......
Maybe you could clear up something for me. What "other motivation" do you feel I have? What do you think I am "wanting ARFCOMers to think".......? Please enlighten me.
I'm simply stating that many of us, including me, do not live in an area which is heavily patrolled, or protected for that matter, by LE. Between 2300 and 0700 most nights, there is NOBODY on duty, except for the State Police, who are really nowhere around you most of the time, and very understaffed in this area. It's nothing to wait 40-60 minutes for anyone to respond, and with all the budget cuts, it's just getting worse, too.
Look Al, I'm not trying to start something here. I was just making a post stating a fact. We're not all as protected by LE as larger areas are. And yes, I am former LE, and have a related job now, so I do know how long it's going to take for residents in my area to get LE assitance.
I agree, if at all possible, wait for LE. If not, you're on your own.
12/25/2009 9:52:04 PM
Originally Posted By jollyg83:
Who out there offers good instruction on room/house clearing techniques with a long gun for a civilian?
Who out there offers good instruction on room/house clearing techniques with a long gun for a civilian?
Defensive Edge Training and Consulting, Urban Tactics I/II. UT I is primarially handgun, but it sets the foundation for UT II, which is much more long arm-centric.
Course description
Urban Tactics 1
Outline and Course Objectives
Many of us spend great amounts of time in urban areas around buildings and vehicles. This course is designed to give hands on practical knowledge of how to defend and protect yourself and others in the city environment. This course builds on the basic fundamentals of pistol and shoulder weapon skills, and adds an entire new dimension with hands on training.
This 2-day course gives students an opportunity to learn and hone fundamentals as they apply them with tactics while dealing with urban environment issues. Students will be taught fundamental emergency first aid for trauma and be tasked to apply this during the scenario based and force on force training. Students should plan on being on the ground, being in physical contact with others, and being involved in the force on force training.
This course is well suited for the Executive Protection Specialist, Parent, Spouse, Law Enforcement Officer, School Resource Officer, and Security Guards. Time will be spent on the fundamentals necessary to deal in and around crowds, remove and move people from danger areas, and deal with hostilities while protecting others. A great deal of time will be spent on fundamentals of weapons skills for this type of task.
Student Materials (Minimum Suggestion)
* Handgun with hip holster, thigh holsters allowed but you must also have a hip holster. (No Shoulder Holsters, Crossdraw Holsters or Tanker Style Holsters Allowed)
* 3-magazines with carrier
* 750rds pistol ammunition
* Carbine or Shotgun (Must Have a Sling)
* 3-magazines for carbine with carrier
* 300rds Carbine or 100rds Shotgun Heavy Birdshot
* Eye and Ear Protection
* Cover Garment
* Body Armor (Optional)
* Basic First Aid Gear
* Gloves, Knee & Elbow Pads (Optional But Recommended)
Prerequisites:
None
Student Materials (Minimum Suggestion)
Cost
$350
Location
Urban Tactics 2
Outline and Course Objectives
Prerequisites: Urban Tactics-1, and Tactical Carbine-1 (must have taken within the last 24-months)
This course starts where Urban Tactics-1 ends and will hit the ground running. Students will get lots of hands on training of working in hostile urban environments to include buildings and vehicles. This course is designed to give hands on practical knowledge of how to defend and protect yourself and others in the city environment. Emphasis will be on individual and multiple tactics. The shooting skills portion will be ramped up so all should plan on an emphasis of marksmanship.
Students will be tasked with applying fundamental emergency first aid for trauma to themselves and others in hostile environments during the the scenario based and force on force training. Students should plan on working in and out of vehicles, being on the ground, being in physical contact with others, and being involved in the force on force training.
This course is well suited for Law Enforcement, Military, Executive Protection Specialists, Parents, Spouses, School Resource Officers, and Security Guards. Time will be spent on the applying fundamentals necessary to deal in and around crowds, remove and move people from danger areas, and deal with hostilities while protecting others. A great deal of time will be spent on fundamentals of weapons skills for this type of task.
Student Materials (Minimum Suggestion)
* Handgun with hip or thigh holster - (No Shoulder Holsters, Crossdraw Holsters. or Tanker Style Holsters Allowed)
* 3-Handgun magazines with carrier
* 250rds pistol ammunition
* Carbine (Must Have a Sling) with 500rds ammunition
* 3-magazines minimum for carbine with carrier
* Shotgun (Must Have a Sling) with 25rds Buckshot
* Eye and Ear Protection
* Helmet (Optional)
* Body Armor (Recommended But Optional)
* Basic First Aid Gear that is carried on your person
* Gloves, Knee & Elbow Pads
Prerequisites:
Urban Tactics-1, and Tactical Carbine-1 (must have taken within the last 24-months)
Cost
$350
Outline and Course Objectives
Many of us spend great amounts of time in urban areas around buildings and vehicles. This course is designed to give hands on practical knowledge of how to defend and protect yourself and others in the city environment. This course builds on the basic fundamentals of pistol and shoulder weapon skills, and adds an entire new dimension with hands on training.
This 2-day course gives students an opportunity to learn and hone fundamentals as they apply them with tactics while dealing with urban environment issues. Students will be taught fundamental emergency first aid for trauma and be tasked to apply this during the scenario based and force on force training. Students should plan on being on the ground, being in physical contact with others, and being involved in the force on force training.
This course is well suited for the Executive Protection Specialist, Parent, Spouse, Law Enforcement Officer, School Resource Officer, and Security Guards. Time will be spent on the fundamentals necessary to deal in and around crowds, remove and move people from danger areas, and deal with hostilities while protecting others. A great deal of time will be spent on fundamentals of weapons skills for this type of task.
Student Materials (Minimum Suggestion)
* Handgun with hip holster, thigh holsters allowed but you must also have a hip holster. (No Shoulder Holsters, Crossdraw Holsters or Tanker Style Holsters Allowed)
* 3-magazines with carrier
* 750rds pistol ammunition
* Carbine or Shotgun (Must Have a Sling)
* 3-magazines for carbine with carrier
* 300rds Carbine or 100rds Shotgun Heavy Birdshot
* Eye and Ear Protection
* Cover Garment
* Body Armor (Optional)
* Basic First Aid Gear
* Gloves, Knee & Elbow Pads (Optional But Recommended)
Prerequisites:
None
Student Materials (Minimum Suggestion)
Cost
$350
Location
Urban Tactics 2
Outline and Course Objectives
Prerequisites: Urban Tactics-1, and Tactical Carbine-1 (must have taken within the last 24-months)
This course starts where Urban Tactics-1 ends and will hit the ground running. Students will get lots of hands on training of working in hostile urban environments to include buildings and vehicles. This course is designed to give hands on practical knowledge of how to defend and protect yourself and others in the city environment. Emphasis will be on individual and multiple tactics. The shooting skills portion will be ramped up so all should plan on an emphasis of marksmanship.
Students will be tasked with applying fundamental emergency first aid for trauma to themselves and others in hostile environments during the the scenario based and force on force training. Students should plan on working in and out of vehicles, being on the ground, being in physical contact with others, and being involved in the force on force training.
This course is well suited for Law Enforcement, Military, Executive Protection Specialists, Parents, Spouses, School Resource Officers, and Security Guards. Time will be spent on the applying fundamentals necessary to deal in and around crowds, remove and move people from danger areas, and deal with hostilities while protecting others. A great deal of time will be spent on fundamentals of weapons skills for this type of task.
Student Materials (Minimum Suggestion)
* Handgun with hip or thigh holster - (No Shoulder Holsters, Crossdraw Holsters. or Tanker Style Holsters Allowed)
* 3-Handgun magazines with carrier
* 250rds pistol ammunition
* Carbine (Must Have a Sling) with 500rds ammunition
* 3-magazines minimum for carbine with carrier
* Shotgun (Must Have a Sling) with 25rds Buckshot
* Eye and Ear Protection
* Helmet (Optional)
* Body Armor (Recommended But Optional)
* Basic First Aid Gear that is carried on your person
* Gloves, Knee & Elbow Pads
Prerequisites:
Urban Tactics-1, and Tactical Carbine-1 (must have taken within the last 24-months)
Cost
$350
One thing you will walk away with is a taste for how very dangerous such evolutions can be, but 'needs must when the devil drives'.
1/4/2010 7:42:52 PM
Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch will teach you. He will also tell you that it's a really bad idea.
1/13/2010 10:17:59 AM
If you are by yourself and forced to move through a darkened structure, or home, you might not be as much as a smartass as you think.
Originally Posted By CAsoldier:
leave the light on your weapon on at all timesOnce you are moving fast, yes.
hold your weapon up high by your head, this makes sure no one can grab it from youGuns and eyeballs, yes.
dont pie corners its too slow, just jump around themPie, but as fast as you can do it without missing anything. Clear fatal funnels quickly.
you always want to use one person per floor level to clear a structureMost people don't have an A Team in their pocket.
always ask if anyone is in a room before you enter, you wouldnt want to shoot a family memberThat is what light is for, target ID.
make sure when you do enter a room you want to stay in the door frame before commiting, you need to look the entire room over first
dont worry about over penetration if he cant see you he cant hit you
i think that about covers how to clear a house by yourself
leave the light on your weapon on at all timesOnce you are moving fast, yes.
hold your weapon up high by your head, this makes sure no one can grab it from youGuns and eyeballs, yes.
dont pie corners its too slow, just jump around themPie, but as fast as you can do it without missing anything. Clear fatal funnels quickly.
you always want to use one person per floor level to clear a structureMost people don't have an A Team in their pocket.
always ask if anyone is in a room before you enter, you wouldnt want to shoot a family memberThat is what light is for, target ID.
make sure when you do enter a room you want to stay in the door frame before commiting, you need to look the entire room over first
dont worry about over penetration if he cant see you he cant hit you
i think that about covers how to clear a house by yourself
1/13/2010 10:33:12 AM
I dunno if you have fired your AR inside a room or enclosed space WITHOUT ear protection/suppression but from my own experience to say the sound is loud and the concussion is significant would be a pretty gross understatement.
If you only shoot at an outdoor range, you (and everyone else nearby) will be in for a very big surprise when you zip some BG with your AR inside your home.
Just one more thing to consider.
If you only shoot at an outdoor range, you (and everyone else nearby) will be in for a very big surprise when you zip some BG with your AR inside your home.
Just one more thing to consider.
1/14/2010 2:53:59 AM
Originally Posted By GainesvilleRebel:
I dunno if you have fired your AR inside a room or enclosed space WITHOUT ear protection/suppression but from my own experience to say the sound is loud and the concussion is significant would be a pretty gross understatement.
If you only shoot at an outdoor range, you (and everyone else nearby) will be in for a very big surprise when you zip some BG with your AR inside your home.
Just one more thing to consider.
I dunno if you have fired your AR inside a room or enclosed space WITHOUT ear protection/suppression but from my own experience to say the sound is loud and the concussion is significant would be a pretty gross understatement.
If you only shoot at an outdoor range, you (and everyone else nearby) will be in for a very big surprise when you zip some BG with your AR inside your home.
Just one more thing to consider.
Auditory exclusion. In times of stress, combat, loud noises do not register. You hear them, they hurt, but they are largely unnoticed as all your senses are keyed to other things. Look it up.
That is why I say "what?" a lot.
1/21/2010 4:27:51 PM
All of this is actually funny. I've said on here a few times, that if you can sit on the other side of the bed and wait for the cops to come. BUT, if your kids are at the other end of the hall/house whatever. Are you really going to wait ? If my grandkids are over and someone is in the house, Im not going to wait. Amd I dont think many of you would either.
If you cant find any training, practice moving thru the house at night,with a flashlight and an UNLOADED gun. Find out where the possible attack point are . This is not rocket science. It is common sense. I wonder how people got along before professsional trainers. Is training the way to go ? Sure it is. But if you cant find any look for videos from reutable people. I'm sure there are some out there.
If you cant find any training, practice moving thru the house at night,with a flashlight and an UNLOADED gun. Find out where the possible attack point are . This is not rocket science. It is common sense. I wonder how people got along before professsional trainers. Is training the way to go ? Sure it is. But if you cant find any look for videos from reutable people. I'm sure there are some out there.
1/30/2010 12:17:10 PM
Originally Posted By rifleman2000:
If you are by yourself and forced to move through a darkened structure, or home, you might not be as much as a smartass as you think.
If you are by yourself and forced to move through a darkened structure, or home, you might not be as much as a smartass as you think.
Originally Posted By CAsoldier:
leave the light on your weapon on at all timesOnce you are moving fast, yes.
hold your weapon up high by your head, this makes sure no one can grab it from youGuns and eyeballs, yes.
dont pie corners its too slow, just jump around themPie, but as fast as you can do it without missing anything. Clear fatal funnels quickly.
you always want to use one person per floor level to clear a structureMost people don't have an A Team in their pocket.
always ask if anyone is in a room before you enter, you wouldnt want to shoot a family memberThat is what light is for, target ID.
make sure when you do enter a room you want to stay in the door frame before commiting, you need to look the entire room over first
dont worry about over penetration if he cant see you he cant hit you
i think that about covers how to clear a house by yourself
leave the light on your weapon on at all timesOnce you are moving fast, yes.
hold your weapon up high by your head, this makes sure no one can grab it from youGuns and eyeballs, yes.
dont pie corners its too slow, just jump around themPie, but as fast as you can do it without missing anything. Clear fatal funnels quickly.
you always want to use one person per floor level to clear a structureMost people don't have an A Team in their pocket.
always ask if anyone is in a room before you enter, you wouldnt want to shoot a family memberThat is what light is for, target ID.
make sure when you do enter a room you want to stay in the door frame before commiting, you need to look the entire room over first
dont worry about over penetration if he cant see you he cant hit you
i think that about covers how to clear a house by yourself
i like you rifleman2000 someone whos not a dick on here about reality when by yourself
1/30/2010 12:44:53 PM
Good advice is to play Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 repeatedly until you can get a 25 kill to 0 death ratio. Then you shall be ready. I mean it is valid, the military has begun training soldiers with videogames, and if you already have the knowledge on how to shoot, reload, crouch, stealthily walk etc, then the tactics the game teaches you is applicable. Remember, most people coming into your house are NOT going to be FEMA stormtroopers. Imagine a noob on COD4. That is how some crack addicted jackass is gonna be. Running in, making noise, and never even noticing you crouching in wait with a green laser to his face as he gets close, and then the soft report of a MSAR 556 loosing him from his mortal coil.
1/30/2010 12:50:39 PM
Originally Posted By Ibreathechemtrails:
Good advice is to play Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 repeatedly until you can get a 25 kill to 0 death ratio. Then you shall be ready. I mean it is valid, the military has begun training soldiers with videogames, and if you already have the knowledge on how to shoot, reload, crouch, stealthily walk etc, then the tactics the game teaches you is applicable. Remember, most people coming into your house are NOT going to be FEMA stormtroopers. Imagine a noob on COD4. That is how some crack addicted jackass is gonna be. Running in, making noise, and never even noticing you crouching in wait with a green laser to his face as he gets close, and then the soft report of a MSAR 556 loosing him from his mortal coil.
Good advice is to play Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 repeatedly until you can get a 25 kill to 0 death ratio. Then you shall be ready. I mean it is valid, the military has begun training soldiers with videogames, and if you already have the knowledge on how to shoot, reload, crouch, stealthily walk etc, then the tactics the game teaches you is applicable. Remember, most people coming into your house are NOT going to be FEMA stormtroopers. Imagine a noob on COD4. That is how some crack addicted jackass is gonna be. Running in, making noise, and never even noticing you crouching in wait with a green laser to his face as he gets close, and then the soft report of a MSAR 556 loosing him from his mortal coil.
Thanks for the wonderful insights.
1/30/2010 12:52:31 PM
I'll second tommytrauma's recommendation of Urban Tactics. I've only taken UT-1 so far, but it was excellent and I imagine UT-2 is even better.
1/30/2010 12:56:22 PM
Not my advice. It is advice from the guy that trained me, and it does work. I don't have any problem with room clearing because I've played so much COD4 as per his order. He said he would train me, but only after I learned how not to die in a game. Once you know what to look for, it is very applicable. I already knew how to shoot, played the game for weeks, then went and did the commanders course. Had no problems, crisp response time, etc. First hand, it works. Maybe not for everyone, but the military does use it, and since he was Army Rangers or something, he recommended it, especially since I don't have 500 bucks to go do a damn course. Knowledge should be free. "Come pay us 500 dollars! Oh and bring 1300 bucks worth of ammo in todays world!!" That crap is frickin stupid. Are only doctors supposed to be able to defend themselves? Stock brokers? No. So the commander created his own training regimen that is uber cheap. He says response is response. If you can shoot already, then train with airsoft guns, paintball guns, work on tactics with simulation, and then once the time comes you won't have any problems. Muscle memory or some such. You'd have to talk to him, but it does work.
Soldiers trained on videogames
The only problem is most aren't prepared for the horrors of slaughter. However it does condition for preparedness.
Soldiers trained on videogames
The only problem is most aren't prepared for the horrors of slaughter. However it does condition for preparedness.
1/30/2010 8:38:44 PM
Is this kid serious?
Dude, are you 12?
no no... this has to be 87GN messin' w/ us...
Dude, are you 12?
no no... this has to be 87GN messin' w/ us...
1/31/2010 10:09:14 PM
Originally Posted By Ibreathechemtrails:
Not my advice. It is advice from the guy that trained me, and it does work. I don't have any problem with room clearing because I've played so much COD4 as per his order. He said he would train me, but only after I learned how not to die in a game. Once you know what to look for, it is very applicable. I already knew how to shoot, played the game for weeks, then went and did the commanders course. Had no problems, crisp response time, etc. First hand, it works. Maybe not for everyone, but the military does use it, and since he was Army Rangers or something, he recommended it, especially since I don't have 500 bucks to go do a damn course. Knowledge should be free. "Come pay us 500 dollars! Oh and bring 1300 bucks worth of ammo in todays world!!" That crap is frickin stupid. Are only doctors supposed to be able to defend themselves? Stock brokers? No. So the commander created his own training regimen that is uber cheap. He says response is response. If you can shoot already, then train with airsoft guns, paintball guns, work on tactics with simulation, and then once the time comes you won't have any problems. Muscle memory or some such. You'd have to talk to him, but it does work.
Soldiers trained on videogames
The only problem is most aren't prepared for the horrors of slaughter. However it does condition for preparedness.
Not my advice. It is advice from the guy that trained me, and it does work. I don't have any problem with room clearing because I've played so much COD4 as per his order. He said he would train me, but only after I learned how not to die in a game. Once you know what to look for, it is very applicable. I already knew how to shoot, played the game for weeks, then went and did the commanders course. Had no problems, crisp response time, etc. First hand, it works. Maybe not for everyone, but the military does use it, and since he was Army Rangers or something, he recommended it, especially since I don't have 500 bucks to go do a damn course. Knowledge should be free. "Come pay us 500 dollars! Oh and bring 1300 bucks worth of ammo in todays world!!" That crap is frickin stupid. Are only doctors supposed to be able to defend themselves? Stock brokers? No. So the commander created his own training regimen that is uber cheap. He says response is response. If you can shoot already, then train with airsoft guns, paintball guns, work on tactics with simulation, and then once the time comes you won't have any problems. Muscle memory or some such. You'd have to talk to him, but it does work.
Soldiers trained on videogames
The only problem is most aren't prepared for the horrors of slaughter. However it does condition for preparedness.
Video games have zero relevance to "training". Are you kidding?
2/2/2010 6:44:04 PM
Originally Posted By Ibreathechemtrails:
Not my advice. It is advice from the guy that trained me, and it does work. I don't have any problem with room clearing because I've played so much COD4 as per his order. He said he would train me, but only after I learned how not to die in a game. Once you know what to look for, it is very applicable. I already knew how to shoot, played the game for weeks, then went and did the commanders course. Had no problems, crisp response time, etc. First hand, it works. Maybe not for everyone, but the military does use it, and since he was Army Rangers or something, he recommended it, especially since I don't have 500 bucks to go do a damn course. Knowledge should be free. "Come pay us 500 dollars! Oh and bring 1300 bucks worth of ammo in todays world!!" That crap is frickin stupid. Are only doctors supposed to be able to defend themselves? Stock brokers? No. So the commander created his own training regimen that is uber cheap. He says response is response. If you can shoot already, then train with airsoft guns, paintball guns, work on tactics with simulation, and then once the time comes you won't have any problems. Muscle memory or some such. You'd have to talk to him, but it does work.
Soldiers trained on videogames
The only problem is most aren't prepared for the horrors of slaughter. However it does condition for preparedness.
Not my advice. It is advice from the guy that trained me, and it does work. I don't have any problem with room clearing because I've played so much COD4 as per his order. He said he would train me, but only after I learned how not to die in a game. Once you know what to look for, it is very applicable. I already knew how to shoot, played the game for weeks, then went and did the commanders course. Had no problems, crisp response time, etc. First hand, it works. Maybe not for everyone, but the military does use it, and since he was Army Rangers or something, he recommended it, especially since I don't have 500 bucks to go do a damn course. Knowledge should be free. "Come pay us 500 dollars! Oh and bring 1300 bucks worth of ammo in todays world!!" That crap is frickin stupid. Are only doctors supposed to be able to defend themselves? Stock brokers? No. So the commander created his own training regimen that is uber cheap. He says response is response. If you can shoot already, then train with airsoft guns, paintball guns, work on tactics with simulation, and then once the time comes you won't have any problems. Muscle memory or some such. You'd have to talk to him, but it does work.
Soldiers trained on videogames
The only problem is most aren't prepared for the horrors of slaughter. However it does condition for preparedness.
Congrats...you made my sigline...
2/2/2010 10:28:34 PM
Haha this is too awesome. Why do you call him "commander"?
2/3/2010 8:18:50 AM
because that's the name of the level 70 rank on COD, bud... which only further perpetuates my assumption that this clown wrote his 'thesis' imploring us to play COD based on his extensive experience as a 12y/o elite COD combative...
2/3/2010 1:05:37 PM
2/3/2010 10:15:36 PM
Thats a lot of gear to get out and don at two in the morning when someone busts down the door! 
2/5/2010 7:49:59 PM
Originally Posted By rifleman2000:
Video games have zero relevance to "training". Are you kidding?
Originally Posted By Ibreathechemtrails:
Not my advice. It is advice from the guy that trained me, and it does work. I don't have any problem with room clearing because I've played so much COD4 as per his order. He said he would train me, but only after I learned how not to die in a game. Once you know what to look for, it is very applicable. I already knew how to shoot, played the game for weeks, then went and did the commanders course. Had no problems, crisp response time, etc. First hand, it works. Maybe not for everyone, but the military does use it, and since he was Army Rangers or something, he recommended it, especially since I don't have 500 bucks to go do a damn course. Knowledge should be free. "Come pay us 500 dollars! Oh and bring 1300 bucks worth of ammo in todays world!!" That crap is frickin stupid. Are only doctors supposed to be able to defend themselves? Stock brokers? No. So the commander created his own training regimen that is uber cheap. He says response is response. If you can shoot already, then train with airsoft guns, paintball guns, work on tactics with simulation, and then once the time comes you won't have any problems. Muscle memory or some such. You'd have to talk to him, but it does work.
Soldiers trained on videogames
The only problem is most aren't prepared for the horrors of slaughter. However it does condition for preparedness.
Not my advice. It is advice from the guy that trained me, and it does work. I don't have any problem with room clearing because I've played so much COD4 as per his order. He said he would train me, but only after I learned how not to die in a game. Once you know what to look for, it is very applicable. I already knew how to shoot, played the game for weeks, then went and did the commanders course. Had no problems, crisp response time, etc. First hand, it works. Maybe not for everyone, but the military does use it, and since he was Army Rangers or something, he recommended it, especially since I don't have 500 bucks to go do a damn course. Knowledge should be free. "Come pay us 500 dollars! Oh and bring 1300 bucks worth of ammo in todays world!!" That crap is frickin stupid. Are only doctors supposed to be able to defend themselves? Stock brokers? No. So the commander created his own training regimen that is uber cheap. He says response is response. If you can shoot already, then train with airsoft guns, paintball guns, work on tactics with simulation, and then once the time comes you won't have any problems. Muscle memory or some such. You'd have to talk to him, but it does work.
Soldiers trained on videogames
The only problem is most aren't prepared for the horrors of slaughter. However it does condition for preparedness.
Video games have zero relevance to "training". Are you kidding?
Sure they do.
2/5/2010 10:39:10 PM
There's a difference between saying that some electronic simulators can teach certain skills and claiming that one has no problems with room clearing because one plays so much COD4.
2/6/2010 9:37:51 AM
Originally Posted By LaRue556:
There's a difference between saying that some electronic simulators can teach certain skills and claiming that one has no problems with room clearing because one plays so much COD4.
There's a difference between saying that some electronic simulators can teach certain skills and claiming that one has no problems with room clearing because one plays so much COD4.
There is SOME merit in it. Obviously not as extreme as the "Commander" says it is. But when I was overseas, the very first firefight I was in reminded me of every computer game I ever played.
Plus, my best Mk-19 shot was 990 yards, and was all hits due to the fact it had the same ballistics and the Quake grenade launcher! No joke.
2/6/2010 9:49:43 AM
While I DO NOT advocate video games as training, My son and I were driving yesterday, And he was talking about a new game out. And he started talking about pieing corners and running walls. While he does shoot USPSA with me sometimes, he has never talked about those things before. His conlusion was ,it sucks to clear houses. I was shocked.
So while it might fall short of real training, it does give people some knowledge of what it is to clear a structure. Of course going out and practice and training is better.
But they might learn that (like my son ) there are different ways to do thing. And they all suck if you have to do them.
So while it might fall short of real training, it does give people some knowledge of what it is to clear a structure. Of course going out and practice and training is better.
But they might learn that (like my son ) there are different ways to do thing. And they all suck if you have to do them.
2/6/2010 5:51:03 PM
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
There is SOME merit in it. Obviously not as extreme as the "Commander" says it is. But when I was overseas, the very first firefight I was in reminded me of every computer game I ever played.
Plus, my best Mk-19 shot was 990 yards, and was all hits due to the fact it had the same ballistics and the Quake grenade launcher! No joke.
Originally Posted By LaRue556:
There's a difference between saying that some electronic simulators can teach certain skills and claiming that one has no problems with room clearing because one plays so much COD4.
There's a difference between saying that some electronic simulators can teach certain skills and claiming that one has no problems with room clearing because one plays so much COD4.
There is SOME merit in it. Obviously not as extreme as the "Commander" says it is. But when I was overseas, the very first firefight I was in reminded me of every computer game I ever played.
Plus, my best Mk-19 shot was 990 yards, and was all hits due to the fact it had the same ballistics and the Quake grenade launcher! No joke.
You're saying exactly what I'm saying, electronic simulators can teach certain skills.
But I'm not denying that....I'm denying that playing a lot of COD4 makes you a master of room-clearing. That's just absurd.
2/6/2010 8:10:51 PM
Contact IACT Tactical. They train LEOs, Military and Qualified Civialins including Contractors. They also do custom courses.
Check them out at www.IACTTACTICAL.COM Go to the media page and read "Why Your CQB doesnt work" article. It will give you good perspective on things. I think they are going to offer a custom CQB for Armed Individuals Course this Spring in NE.
They also have a Blog on Facebook. Just punch in IACT Tactical on Facebook as they have some good AARs.
Check them out at www.IACTTACTICAL.COM Go to the media page and read "Why Your CQB doesnt work" article. It will give you good perspective on things. I think they are going to offer a custom CQB for Armed Individuals Course this Spring in NE.
They also have a Blog on Facebook. Just punch in IACT Tactical on Facebook as they have some good AARs.
2/10/2010 10:04:45 AM
The best technique for clearing your house in the middle of the night is to open your bedroom door and let your German Shepherd out. If there's anyone there, he/she will let you know. You'll also know how many BGs there are and where they are. They'll also be quite busy by time you get to them, and not much concerned with harming you or yours. They may even be glad to see you and be very compliant.
