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Vickers Tactical Advanced Pistol / Carbine Class - AAR – July 16-18, 2010 – Moyock, NC.
7/19/2010 9:08:50 PM
Vickers Tactical Advanced Pistol / Carbine Class - AAR – July 16-18, 2010 – Moyock, NC.
This was an advanced class and you could tell by the overall skill levels present. Facility was the US Training Center in Moyock, NC. This class has to of been the most high speed class I have attended yet both in focus of training and the folks who attended. I would go further in saying we did not have anything close to “that guy” or any Model-1 rifles in the class.
Thanks Larry and Paul!
Day 1 – All pistol. Mostly Glock except for one M&P and one “antique” 1911. Temps were in the humid upper 90s – A HOT one!
We started with some assessment drills. Covered the #1 key to accuracy of trigger squeeze and its evil enemy, el snatcheroo. Everyone was pretty dialed-in. Ball and dummy drills, regular, hot, and timed hot.
Time drills always add some stress to the normally static training. Trigger reset drills followed next. More accuracy drills followed.
Team drills – emphases on team drills having folks do their best to win/not let teammates down. Team standing side by side and going down the line of firing x number of shots then tapping the next person to go. Time added for missed shots. Team “Bon Scott” and “TEAM AMERICA” I think took most of those. The “window lickers” didn’t do so well.
Good time with barriers here both from kneeling and standing. Also included more team drills on barriers.
Need some of the attendees to jump in here since I was more or less brain fried that day.
Day 2 – Mostly Carbine.
Started with discussions of different techniques of zero’s and for most of what we have here in the US a 100meter zero fits well, but in the current theatres overseas a 200meter shot is common enough that it would be a better zero. We proceeded to zero. Different shooting positions at different distances.
Throughout the class LAV and all discussed the unbiased pros and cons of the different carbines, accessories, comp versus flash suppressors, etc. Pretty much all discussed throughout the class. Always a staple of a good LAV class. No sooner had Larry discussed his lack of trust for match triggers I had a Timey drop-in go down.
To paraphrase Larry - in some ways you learn more of what doesn’t work in these classes as opposed to stuff that is new.
Discussed pros of the red-dots and Aimpoint ruled the day. One Leupold 1x4 and my Trijicon TRG24 were the only exceptions(although a couple Eotechs made surprise appearances much later)
Focus on accuracy and firing as fast as you can keep it on target.
Lots of focus on transitions. Had a good drill/shootout with GermanSynergy that ended with a tie where you started with 2 rounds in your rifle and you had to empty your rifle on your target, transition to your pistol and put another 2 shots on target. We kept tying at down to 9 secs.
Shooting on the move completed the day with team competitions – early dinner as lightning storms were fast approaching.
Some barrier shooting and even the same team drills as the prior day, but obviously with carbines.
Night shooting
Use of night sights, white light and lasers. Everyone had night sights with the exception of Dinger! Discussed the different types and flash light carry. Compared different carbine and pistol muzzle flash suppressors. My G19C gave a nice show. Carbine flash suppressors did very well especially compared to the 1 compensator.
We conducted both pistol and carbine flash, identify, engage and move drills.
Day 3 – More Shooting on the move!
Started the day by integrating most everything with shooting on the move, transitions, box and figure 8 drills. Finished morning by covering clearing stoppages for both pistol and carbine. Carbine clearing included the infamous prom-night clearing. A really good drill with the pistol was setting up the misfeed/double feed and clearing it with your eyes closed to simulate clearing in the dark. LAV reiterated the KISS principle for clearing malfunctions and how malfunction drills are better conducted with dummy rounds.
After lunch we got to partake in some of the benefits of US Training center and play with the movers! Pistol on the mover concentrating on the leading edge and not stopping to fire but continuing to follow through.
A team competition ensued by timing the teams engaging 4 shots on the mover and metal plates at the end of the mover tracks, approximately 15m away. Time was cumulative. Team Kim Jong Il beat team Pig-Farmers!
After a break we conducted the same orientation with carbine – red-dots truly shine here! Heavy Metal was firing irons and speed difference was quite obvious. When he tried someone else’s Aimpoint, big improvement! Team comp took place again but not sure who took that one. What was fun is when .30Slut hit a paint can and gave us some minor fireworks.
More fun with the mover was firing in pairs on the back of LAV’s truck. True eye opener at many levels.
This was done with LAV going forward and backward across the range. We first did passes at a static target. Next firing at the mover moving in line and parallel with the truck. Finally firing at the mover moving the opposite direction as the truck. Truly messed up and as LAV mentioned, good territory for a visible laser.
Again - excellent class with some very good folks - was great training with all of you!
This was an advanced class and you could tell by the overall skill levels present. Facility was the US Training Center in Moyock, NC. This class has to of been the most high speed class I have attended yet both in focus of training and the folks who attended. I would go further in saying we did not have anything close to “that guy” or any Model-1 rifles in the class.
Thanks Larry and Paul!
Day 1 – All pistol. Mostly Glock except for one M&P and one “antique” 1911. Temps were in the humid upper 90s – A HOT one!
We started with some assessment drills. Covered the #1 key to accuracy of trigger squeeze and its evil enemy, el snatcheroo. Everyone was pretty dialed-in. Ball and dummy drills, regular, hot, and timed hot.
Time drills always add some stress to the normally static training. Trigger reset drills followed next. More accuracy drills followed.
Team drills – emphases on team drills having folks do their best to win/not let teammates down. Team standing side by side and going down the line of firing x number of shots then tapping the next person to go. Time added for missed shots. Team “Bon Scott” and “TEAM AMERICA” I think took most of those. The “window lickers” didn’t do so well.
Good time with barriers here both from kneeling and standing. Also included more team drills on barriers.
Need some of the attendees to jump in here since I was more or less brain fried that day.
Day 2 – Mostly Carbine.
Started with discussions of different techniques of zero’s and for most of what we have here in the US a 100meter zero fits well, but in the current theatres overseas a 200meter shot is common enough that it would be a better zero. We proceeded to zero. Different shooting positions at different distances.
Throughout the class LAV and all discussed the unbiased pros and cons of the different carbines, accessories, comp versus flash suppressors, etc. Pretty much all discussed throughout the class. Always a staple of a good LAV class. No sooner had Larry discussed his lack of trust for match triggers I had a Timey drop-in go down.
To paraphrase Larry - in some ways you learn more of what doesn’t work in these classes as opposed to stuff that is new.
Discussed pros of the red-dots and Aimpoint ruled the day. One Leupold 1x4 and my Trijicon TRG24 were the only exceptions(although a couple Eotechs made surprise appearances much later)
Focus on accuracy and firing as fast as you can keep it on target.
Lots of focus on transitions. Had a good drill/shootout with GermanSynergy that ended with a tie where you started with 2 rounds in your rifle and you had to empty your rifle on your target, transition to your pistol and put another 2 shots on target. We kept tying at down to 9 secs.
Shooting on the move completed the day with team competitions – early dinner as lightning storms were fast approaching.
Some barrier shooting and even the same team drills as the prior day, but obviously with carbines.
Night shooting
Use of night sights, white light and lasers. Everyone had night sights with the exception of Dinger! Discussed the different types and flash light carry. Compared different carbine and pistol muzzle flash suppressors. My G19C gave a nice show. Carbine flash suppressors did very well especially compared to the 1 compensator.
We conducted both pistol and carbine flash, identify, engage and move drills.
Day 3 – More Shooting on the move!
Started the day by integrating most everything with shooting on the move, transitions, box and figure 8 drills. Finished morning by covering clearing stoppages for both pistol and carbine. Carbine clearing included the infamous prom-night clearing. A really good drill with the pistol was setting up the misfeed/double feed and clearing it with your eyes closed to simulate clearing in the dark. LAV reiterated the KISS principle for clearing malfunctions and how malfunction drills are better conducted with dummy rounds.
After lunch we got to partake in some of the benefits of US Training center and play with the movers! Pistol on the mover concentrating on the leading edge and not stopping to fire but continuing to follow through.
A team competition ensued by timing the teams engaging 4 shots on the mover and metal plates at the end of the mover tracks, approximately 15m away. Time was cumulative. Team Kim Jong Il beat team Pig-Farmers!
After a break we conducted the same orientation with carbine – red-dots truly shine here! Heavy Metal was firing irons and speed difference was quite obvious. When he tried someone else’s Aimpoint, big improvement! Team comp took place again but not sure who took that one. What was fun is when .30Slut hit a paint can and gave us some minor fireworks.
More fun with the mover was firing in pairs on the back of LAV’s truck. True eye opener at many levels.
This was done with LAV going forward and backward across the range. We first did passes at a static target. Next firing at the mover moving in line and parallel with the truck. Finally firing at the mover moving the opposite direction as the truck. Truly messed up and as LAV mentioned, good territory for a visible laser.
Again - excellent class with some very good folks - was great training with all of you!
7/21/2010 9:30:57 AM
This was my first (and hopefully not last!) experience training with Larry Vickers. It was a great course with a cubic fuckload of valuable knowledge and drills that will absolutely benefit any shooter who practices them. In addition to being a great instructor, LAV is a veritable encyclopedia of Firearms Industry knowledge and had plenty of "ones to grow on" in reference to the many companies who produce kit for the AR as well as the wide variety of of load bearing equipment available out there.
My main takeaways from the course were not so much weapons manipulation related, but were focused on trigger control and accuracy. I did enjoy LAV's statement about transitioning from the Primary to Secondary weapon system: "When the bullets are going both ways, you've got the rest of your life to make that transition happen."
Drills: For teaching trigger control and avoiding "el snatcho", I really enjoying the multiple variations of the Ball and Dummy drill as well as the penalty of 5 dry fire remediations for every flinch as the shot breaks.
Point shooting with taped sights, though I had done this drill before with other instructors it was the first time that I had been taught to keep my head and body erect and bringing the weapon up to chin level during presentation. The drill started at about 3 yards and moved backward incrementally. I believe that LAV got back past the 15 before he threw one out of the A Zone. A really great drill.
Shooting from retention was another awesome drill, which trained "hip shooting". Again, something that I have done a few times, but never really practiced in detail. LAV broke it down really well and demonstrated its effectiveness by moving from 2 yards backwards again not stopping until he put one out of the A Zone. He also took the time to point out that it is an "emergency" technique and that when time and opportunity allow you should make an effort to get both hands on the pistol as it increases accuracy so significantly.
For the Carbine, probably the best drill of the course (for my money anyway) was the "Aggraget" which we did right after BZO on Day Two. Starting at 100 yds Prone, then 75 yds Sitting, then 50 yds Kneeling, and finally 25 yds Standing. 10 rounds at every yardline with a sliding timeline. Great Drill.
Night fire was a lot of fun. As were the Box and Weave Drills for shooting on the move. A lot of fun when you are working multiple targets!!!
Day Three involved malfunctions, competitions, movers, and shooting from a moving vehicle. I liked that the malfunction drills were done outside of "pistol range" to negate hand-eye-brain confusion. Definately value added.
Altogether a very enjoyable course with a bunch of great shooters. I highly recommend LAV as well as the US Training Center for a training location, world class across the board.
Many thanks to Larry and thanks also to Paul from Grey Group Training! Outstanding.
My main takeaways from the course were not so much weapons manipulation related, but were focused on trigger control and accuracy. I did enjoy LAV's statement about transitioning from the Primary to Secondary weapon system: "When the bullets are going both ways, you've got the rest of your life to make that transition happen."
Drills: For teaching trigger control and avoiding "el snatcho", I really enjoying the multiple variations of the Ball and Dummy drill as well as the penalty of 5 dry fire remediations for every flinch as the shot breaks.
Point shooting with taped sights, though I had done this drill before with other instructors it was the first time that I had been taught to keep my head and body erect and bringing the weapon up to chin level during presentation. The drill started at about 3 yards and moved backward incrementally. I believe that LAV got back past the 15 before he threw one out of the A Zone. A really great drill.
Shooting from retention was another awesome drill, which trained "hip shooting". Again, something that I have done a few times, but never really practiced in detail. LAV broke it down really well and demonstrated its effectiveness by moving from 2 yards backwards again not stopping until he put one out of the A Zone. He also took the time to point out that it is an "emergency" technique and that when time and opportunity allow you should make an effort to get both hands on the pistol as it increases accuracy so significantly.
For the Carbine, probably the best drill of the course (for my money anyway) was the "Aggraget" which we did right after BZO on Day Two. Starting at 100 yds Prone, then 75 yds Sitting, then 50 yds Kneeling, and finally 25 yds Standing. 10 rounds at every yardline with a sliding timeline. Great Drill.
Night fire was a lot of fun. As were the Box and Weave Drills for shooting on the move. A lot of fun when you are working multiple targets!!!
Day Three involved malfunctions, competitions, movers, and shooting from a moving vehicle. I liked that the malfunction drills were done outside of "pistol range" to negate hand-eye-brain confusion. Definately value added.
Altogether a very enjoyable course with a bunch of great shooters. I highly recommend LAV as well as the US Training Center for a training location, world class across the board.
Many thanks to Larry and thanks also to Paul from Grey Group Training! Outstanding.
7/22/2010 1:09:17 AM
great write up guys. I've actually been working on my trigger pull on my glock recently, and found this very interesting. if you don't mind expounding a little more on the drills, tips, etc. in that area. thanx.
7/23/2010 12:36:00 PM
7/26/2010 11:37:05 AM
Originally Posted By 30calslut:
Click Here for Vid of GermanSynergy and myself engaging steel from moving vehicle.
Click Here for Vid of GermanSynergy and myself engaging steel from moving vehicle.
Slut, I wasn't sure whether this video was going to be from the course or from everyday travels in one of the finer cities here in our state.
7/27/2010 11:45:33 AM
As you can see, the lawn is well-manicured, so it's gotta be the gold coast. 
8/8/2010 1:34:20 PM
In the Marine Corps we say that pictures are worth a thousand words, here are a few, more in the AAR on M4Carbine if any are interested.........
11/16/2010 1:57:21 PM
No more pictures ?
