How to improve shooting with iron sights?
How can I improve shooting with my iron sights at any distance but mostly 200 yards and less?
Recently I went to the shooting range and forgot my targets But luckily someone left a steel plate about 75 yards out. I was hitting it 10/10 with my ak iron sights but with my 20" ar 15 I was shooting slightly low and missing getting maybe 2-4 out of 10 shots.
I have not had a chance to actually zero this ar but will it make that much of a difference? I never zeroed my ak and can hit 8 inch targets out to 100 yards with iron sights. One thing that bothers me with with the ar 15 is that with the .22 bullet it is hard to see if you miss or hit a target at a distance. And with the ak's .30 cal bullet you see the impact.
I know I should/will zero my ar but at what distance? What distance is factory iron sights zeroed at?
Yes, zeroing will make a difference (you were just lucky that the AK was close as is).
Search for zero, trajectory, etc. and you will find several ranges/methods of zeroing and should determine which suits your weapon/needs.
Short answer: 25m zero.
Alternate answer, 50m zero.
There's no such thing as a factory iron sight zero. Every rifle shoots differently, and different ammo shoots differently.
Just to give an example from my own shooting the other day; I loaded some plinking ammo with cheap 55 grain fmj bullets, standard bulk stuff. I used the exact same powder charge as I'd been using for my 55 grain bthp bullets, a very accurate load for one of my rifles, not so much in some others, but it's got enough oomph to reliably cycle any reasonably functional AR and with the same weight bullet I figured it would be close enough that I could use the cheap bullets to get roughly sighted in and finish up with the good stuff. (My specific reason for the range trip was to re-zero some scopes with different rifles than they'd been on)
So, same powder charge, same cases, same bullet weight, same rifle, same scope, same TARGET at 100 yards, off the same rest, about two minutes apart. They were a good inch different point of impact, creating two distinct groups that slightly overlapped. My buddy's federal XM193, which is the same 55 grain FMJ bullet but a hotter powder charge of different powder and with a military style crimp were a few inches in another direction with a significantly larger group. The same ammo in a different rifle shot to a different relative point of impact. Meaning it went one way relative to my usual load in my rifle, and a different direction relative to that load in the other rifle.
You see the issue? Even with very very similar ammo the point of impact with just one rifle can shift noticeably. Imagine with different bullet weights, different calibers, different barrel lengths and weights... You have to zero YOUR rifle with YOUR ammo, for a given distance, using some charts and math to figure out the trajectory based on that. Most folks verify that with targets at a few distances, since the trajectory charts assume certain things that won't be quite the same for most folks. The main things you need to know are the ammo used, length of barrel (and sometimes they specify the chamber, 5.56, 223, wylde...) and the height of your sight above the barrel. On an AR with iron sights that's pretty easy to measure, just take a tape measure and go from the center of the barrel straight up to the top of your front sight post. With that info there are plenty of online ballistic calculators that can give you the trajectory, or you can download one of the free or inexpensive programs. If the web site or program doesn't have your load pre-set you would need to know the bullet weight, ballistic coefficient and velocity. The ammo company can generally provide that and often does on their web site, but most of the usual loads are listed various places for easy reference. If all else fails, ask here, someone will have the numbers.
First by understanding how they work and how to set them properly. Second is the fundamentals of marksmanship.
I have adopted the 50 yard iron sight method.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
wow,
yes zeroing your AR will make a difference hands down. if you are zeroed at 100 yds then you will be within 2.5" vertically out to 180 or so IIRC.
read thisOriginally Posted By Remyrw:
There's no such thing as a factory iron sight zero. Every rifle shoots differently, and different ammo shoots differently.
Just to give an ...<SNIP>...the numbers.
While, given your explanation, you are correct, many weapons DO come zeroed from the factory. Each of the 4 Arsenals I have purchased recently came with a "test fire" target which was pretty close; had it been way off (as many claim) I would think they would make it close.
Colt M4s and FN M16s come from the factory with mechanical zeros. I don't know what ammo they are set for (I would assume M193/55gr), but I can tell you that a mechanical M4 zero shoots perfectly for me (25m zero) with M855 and by proxy (Mk318; never re-zeroed, but it shoots pretty close even at extended (for a CQBR range)). Even Mk262 shoots pretty close.
Granted, you are talking hand loads and I am talking acceptable battlefield accuracy. The question is how close will the factory zero be for the way and what you are shooting.
Think of shooting an AR like you shoot a Bow (If you do). For consistent arrow groups, a good archer needs to have consistent string anchor points. I use my nose and chin as well as the side of my mouth and then the release position is an anchor too.
Most people try to shoot the AR like they do an bolt action rifle, with a longer eye relief. While they are both rifles the AR has One big benefit. The Charge Handle. With your cheek firmly on the stock, place the tip of your nose, actually the crease in the tip of your nose on the side of the charge handle so you can see clearly through the peep sight. This point of contact allows a pretty good and repeatable sight picture every time you shoulder the AR.
Zero the Sights this way from sand bags or some other stable hold. Then switch to a standing hold, ALL with your nose anchored on the charge handle and you should have good consistency and groups at all ranges.
Consistency of ammo is also very important. BUT if you zero with 55 gr FMJ and get tight groups after developing muscle memory and trigger control, then ANY ammo, with in reason, will give you good groups, just maybe not in the ten ring all the time.
What ever you do DO NOT CHANGE YOUR SIGHTS EVERY TIME YOU CHANGE AMMO. Your sights are a point of reference. adjust your impact point just as you would for windage and elevation, once you have them set.
Find the recent article in gun magazine about shooting 300% better than Army Qualification course.
I can't remember for sure the article or magazine name because my buddy hasn't found it to return to me. :-)
Or just look up appleseed program and attend one. Bring the AR not the AK.
There is also a small manual/book they recomend on their sight.
Your best bet may be to get a good 22 AR upper or get a 10-22 and put peep sights on it for practice.
For even better accuracy check out the cz 22 bolt action and put peep sights on it. You want the one with open sights on it already and the plus side is you can also use the factory sights to learn to shoot AK better.
A really good shot should be able to hit man size target at 500 yards with AR.
