Archived Posts » 59,726,163
Major vs minor power factor.
6/14/2011 6:51:31 PM
Hello...
I've never actually been to a USPSA match, since my local ranges have informal steel matches that I enjoy shooting. But I figure once I head off for grad school, I'll probably end up switching to USPSA and want to plan accordingly when purchasing my first handgun.
Thus far, the prime contenders are the Glock 17 and glock 21. I am equally accurate with both. Since the G17 has no muzzle climb, I'm faster with it.
I am familiar with the way USPSA paper targets look from shooting 3-gun. I have tried finding this info both here and through google, and I can't figure out the differences between major and minor power factor.
I know A zone is an automatic neutralization, and that the differences between major and minor arise from shots outside the A zone, but don't know how this works. If someone could explain it to me, that would be great.
I'd also like to know how big of a handicap minor power factor is for shooters in limited class.
I've never actually been to a USPSA match, since my local ranges have informal steel matches that I enjoy shooting. But I figure once I head off for grad school, I'll probably end up switching to USPSA and want to plan accordingly when purchasing my first handgun.
Thus far, the prime contenders are the Glock 17 and glock 21. I am equally accurate with both. Since the G17 has no muzzle climb, I'm faster with it.
I am familiar with the way USPSA paper targets look from shooting 3-gun. I have tried finding this info both here and through google, and I can't figure out the differences between major and minor power factor.
I know A zone is an automatic neutralization, and that the differences between major and minor arise from shots outside the A zone, but don't know how this works. If someone could explain it to me, that would be great.
I'd also like to know how big of a handicap minor power factor is for shooters in limited class.
6/14/2011 7:01:41 PM
Paper targets are divided into an "A", "B", "C" and "D" zone. The value for each zone depends on the Power Factor of the gun. The values are:
Zone Major Minor
A 5 5
B 4 3
C 4 3
D 2 1
The "Power Factor" is calculated by multiplying the bullet weight by the muzzle velocity, then dividing by 1000. The break point between Major and
Minor is 165; 165 or greater is Major and less than 165 is Minor. All firearms must have a minimum power factor of 125 for USPSA competition
.I used to be a 'B' class USPSA shooter before life, marriage, kids, and work....My Glock 17 reloads were always ~ 135PF. My S&W 745 (now there is a pistol you do not hear a lot about) and Springfield were loaded to ~180PF. It's been a while since I've shot a USPSA match.
6/14/2011 7:03:49 PM
I was told by the USPSA GM I run with that if you rn your G17 as production your point value will be the same as Major. So that's what I did my last USPSA qualifier.
6/14/2011 7:12:23 PM
Originally Posted By Reservist:
I was told by the USPSA GM I run with that if you rn your G17 as production your point value will be the same as Major. So that's what I did my last USPSA qualifier.
I was told by the USPSA GM I run with that if you rn your G17 as production your point value will be the same as Major. So that's what I did my last USPSA qualifier.
Production is scored as minor.
6/14/2011 7:24:28 PM
Originally Posted By echofivekilo:
Production is scored as minor.
Originally Posted By Reservist:
I was told by the USPSA GM I run with that if you rn your G17 as production your point value will be the same as Major. So that's what I did my last USPSA qualifier.
I was told by the USPSA GM I run with that if you rn your G17 as production your point value will be the same as Major. So that's what I did my last USPSA qualifier.
Production is scored as minor.
So is a G17 in limited class scored as minor too then?
edit: I just got it maybe he had me run production because then I would only be competing against other minors.
6/14/2011 7:43:13 PM
Alright, how many points must you make to neutralize the target? I guess that is what I don't understand.
6/14/2011 7:47:13 PM
Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:
My Glock 17 reloads were always ~ 135PF. My S&W 745 (now there is a pistol you do not hear a lot about) and Springfield were loaded to ~180PF. It's been a while since I've shot a USPSA match.
Paper targets are divided into an "A", "B", "C" and "D" zone. The value for each zone depends on the Power Factor of the gun. The values are: Zone Major Minor A 5 5 B 4 3 C 4 3 D 2 1The "Power Factor" is calculated by multiplying the bullet weight by the muzzle velocity, then dividing by 1000. The break point between Major andMinor is 165; 165 or greater is Major and less than 165 is Minor. All firearms must have a minimum power factor of 125 for USPSA competition.I used to be a 'B' class USPSA shooter before life, marriage, kids, and work....
My Glock 17 reloads were always ~ 135PF. My S&W 745 (now there is a pistol you do not hear a lot about) and Springfield were loaded to ~180PF. It's been a while since I've shot a USPSA match.
I've had a couple 745's....and also a couple 645's......GREAT pistols in my experience.
6/14/2011 7:54:17 PM
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Alright, how many points must you make to neutralize the target? I guess that is what I don't understand.
Alright, how many points must you make to neutralize the target? I guess that is what I don't understand.
There is no "neutralizing" in USPSA. In IDPA if you don't get a "zero" or a "down one" on a target, you're assessed with a "failure to neutralize" on that target.
In USPSA the course of fire will dictate whether a target requires two or three (or whatever) hits.
I hope that made sense.
6/14/2011 8:27:57 PM
Originally Posted By echofivekilo:
There is no "neutralizing" in USPSA. In IDPA if you don't get a "zero" or a "down one" on a target, you're assessed with a "failure to neutralize" on that target.
In USPSA the course of fire will dictate whether a target requires two or three (or whatever) hits.
I hope that made sense.
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Alright, how many points must you make to neutralize the target? I guess that is what I don't understand.
Alright, how many points must you make to neutralize the target? I guess that is what I don't understand.
There is no "neutralizing" in USPSA. In IDPA if you don't get a "zero" or a "down one" on a target, you're assessed with a "failure to neutralize" on that target.
In USPSA the course of fire will dictate whether a target requires two or three (or whatever) hits.
I hope that made sense.
Does a minor power factor gun require more hits than a major power factor gun? I guess I'm not seeing how the scoring system described above works.
6/14/2011 8:31:01 PM
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Does a minor power factor gun require more hits than a major power factor gun? I guess I'm not seeing how the scoring system described above works.
Originally Posted By echofivekilo:
There is no "neutralizing" in USPSA. In IDPA if you don't get a "zero" or a "down one" on a target, you're assessed with a "failure to neutralize" on that target.
In USPSA the course of fire will dictate whether a target requires two or three (or whatever) hits.
I hope that made sense.
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Alright, how many points must you make to neutralize the target? I guess that is what I don't understand.
Alright, how many points must you make to neutralize the target? I guess that is what I don't understand.
There is no "neutralizing" in USPSA. In IDPA if you don't get a "zero" or a "down one" on a target, you're assessed with a "failure to neutralize" on that target.
In USPSA the course of fire will dictate whether a target requires two or three (or whatever) hits.
I hope that made sense.
Does a minor power factor gun require more hits than a major power factor gun? I guess I'm not seeing how the scoring system described above works.
No it doesn't. There is zones on the target A B C D. A lane may say shoot each target twice, so you shoot each one twice. Ideally you want all A's.
6/14/2011 8:42:30 PM
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Does a minor power factor gun require more hits than a major power factor gun? I guess I'm not seeing how the scoring system described above works.
Originally Posted By echofivekilo:
There is no "neutralizing" in USPSA. In IDPA if you don't get a "zero" or a "down one" on a target, you're assessed with a "failure to neutralize" on that target.
In USPSA the course of fire will dictate whether a target requires two or three (or whatever) hits.
I hope that made sense.
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Alright, how many points must you make to neutralize the target? I guess that is what I don't understand.
Alright, how many points must you make to neutralize the target? I guess that is what I don't understand.
There is no "neutralizing" in USPSA. In IDPA if you don't get a "zero" or a "down one" on a target, you're assessed with a "failure to neutralize" on that target.
In USPSA the course of fire will dictate whether a target requires two or three (or whatever) hits.
I hope that made sense.
Does a minor power factor gun require more hits than a major power factor gun? I guess I'm not seeing how the scoring system described above works.
B, C, and D zone hits are worth less points if you're shooting minor.
6/14/2011 8:55:28 PM
If you shoot "Production" division, all hits are scored minor, regardless of what you actually shoot it with.
Now, if you choose to use your G17 in "Limited" division, you are basically handicapping yourself as all your non-A-zone hits will be scored minor.
I suggest you shoot "Limited" with your G17 until you learn the ropes, then go to "Production". (Less reloading in Limited.)
Now, if you choose to use your G17 in "Limited" division, you are basically handicapping yourself as all your non-A-zone hits will be scored minor.
I suggest you shoot "Limited" with your G17 until you learn the ropes, then go to "Production". (Less reloading in Limited.)
6/14/2011 8:57:51 PM
Originally Posted By bigcraig:
If you shoot "Production" division, all hits are scored minor, regardless of what you actually shoot it with.
Now, if you choose to use your G17 in "Limited" division, you are basically handicapping yourself as all your non-A-zone hits will be scored minor.
I suggest you shoot "Limited" with your G17 until you learn the ropes, then go to "Production". (Less reloading in Limited.)
If you shoot "Production" division, all hits are scored minor, regardless of what you actually shoot it with.
Now, if you choose to use your G17 in "Limited" division, you are basically handicapping yourself as all your non-A-zone hits will be scored minor.
I suggest you shoot "Limited" with your G17 until you learn the ropes, then go to "Production". (Less reloading in Limited.)
He's good to go, he's been shooting steel matches for years.
6/14/2011 9:43:33 PM
Originally Posted By bigcraig:
If you shoot "Production" division, all hits are scored minor, regardless of what you actually shoot it with.
Now, if you choose to use your G17 in "Limited" division, you are basically handicapping yourself as all your non-A-zone hits will be scored minor.
I suggest you shoot "Limited" with your G17 until you learn the ropes, then go to "Production". (Less reloading in Limited.)
If you shoot "Production" division, all hits are scored minor, regardless of what you actually shoot it with.
Now, if you choose to use your G17 in "Limited" division, you are basically handicapping yourself as all your non-A-zone hits will be scored minor.
I suggest you shoot "Limited" with your G17 until you learn the ropes, then go to "Production". (Less reloading in Limited.)
Okay, I got it.
I did not know that there was any other method of scoring other than time. I found through a helpful link on google that the score is divided by the time.
This seems rather complicated. I hate it when I have to add.
ETA: I'm thinking I'll try a USPSA practice match on Thursday. If I like it, I'll probably go Glock 21 like I originally planned. Kind of a handicap at steel matches, but I'm fine with that.
6/14/2011 9:47:32 PM
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Okay, I got it.
I did not know that there was any other method of scoring other than time. I found through a helpful link on google that the score is divided by the time.
This seems rather complicated. I hate it when I have to add.
ETA: I'm thinking I'll try a USPSA practice match on Thursday. If I like it, I'll probably go Glock 21 like I originally planned. Kind of a handicap at steel matches, but I'm fine with that.
Originally Posted By bigcraig:
If you shoot "Production" division, all hits are scored minor, regardless of what you actually shoot it with.
Now, if you choose to use your G17 in "Limited" division, you are basically handicapping yourself as all your non-A-zone hits will be scored minor.
I suggest you shoot "Limited" with your G17 until you learn the ropes, then go to "Production". (Less reloading in Limited.)
If you shoot "Production" division, all hits are scored minor, regardless of what you actually shoot it with.
Now, if you choose to use your G17 in "Limited" division, you are basically handicapping yourself as all your non-A-zone hits will be scored minor.
I suggest you shoot "Limited" with your G17 until you learn the ropes, then go to "Production". (Less reloading in Limited.)
Okay, I got it.
I did not know that there was any other method of scoring other than time. I found through a helpful link on google that the score is divided by the time.
This seems rather complicated. I hate it when I have to add.
ETA: I'm thinking I'll try a USPSA practice match on Thursday. If I like it, I'll probably go Glock 21 like I originally planned. Kind of a handicap at steel matches, but I'm fine with that.
You won't have to, they do it for you! If you make it out Thursday I'll run the lanes with you.
6/14/2011 10:02:56 PM
Originally Posted By Reservist:
You won't have to, they do it for you! If you make it out Thursday I'll run the lanes with you.
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Okay, I got it.
I did not know that there was any other method of scoring other than time. I found through a helpful link on google that the score is divided by the time.
This seems rather complicated. I hate it when I have to add.
ETA: I'm thinking I'll try a USPSA practice match on Thursday. If I like it, I'll probably go Glock 21 like I originally planned. Kind of a handicap at steel matches, but I'm fine with that.
Originally Posted By bigcraig:
If you shoot "Production" division, all hits are scored minor, regardless of what you actually shoot it with.
Now, if you choose to use your G17 in "Limited" division, you are basically handicapping yourself as all your non-A-zone hits will be scored minor.
I suggest you shoot "Limited" with your G17 until you learn the ropes, then go to "Production". (Less reloading in Limited.)
If you shoot "Production" division, all hits are scored minor, regardless of what you actually shoot it with.
Now, if you choose to use your G17 in "Limited" division, you are basically handicapping yourself as all your non-A-zone hits will be scored minor.
I suggest you shoot "Limited" with your G17 until you learn the ropes, then go to "Production". (Less reloading in Limited.)
Okay, I got it.
I did not know that there was any other method of scoring other than time. I found through a helpful link on google that the score is divided by the time.
This seems rather complicated. I hate it when I have to add.
ETA: I'm thinking I'll try a USPSA practice match on Thursday. If I like it, I'll probably go Glock 21 like I originally planned. Kind of a handicap at steel matches, but I'm fine with that.
You won't have to, they do it for you! If you make it out Thursday I'll run the lanes with you.
Cool. I'll probably go. I'll IM you ahead of time if I change my mind.
6/15/2011 4:02:01 PM
Be warned, USPSA is very addicting!
6/17/2011 10:47:40 AM
Well, I went to the match.
It was a practice match. The rules were that, instead of calculating the usual point socre, any A zone hit would be minus 1 second.
I came in at 12th place out of 35, mainly behind the master limited and master open shooters. Beat quite a few of them actually. I also got a pin for winning the noobie class. Which is funny, cause I could have also won D class by a wide margin.
This was much easier than I expected. I was expecting more 25 yard shots and less 10 yard shots. It was a lot of fun.
So, to shoot the official matches, I'm guessing I have to be a USPSA member, correct? I don't know if I really want to drive 40 miles one way for the practice matches, but I have two ranges in 20 miles that I can shoot at easily. Plus I have friends to car pool.
I think my inability to add would cause me problems at a real match though.
It was a practice match. The rules were that, instead of calculating the usual point socre, any A zone hit would be minus 1 second.
I came in at 12th place out of 35, mainly behind the master limited and master open shooters. Beat quite a few of them actually. I also got a pin for winning the noobie class. Which is funny, cause I could have also won D class by a wide margin.
This was much easier than I expected. I was expecting more 25 yard shots and less 10 yard shots. It was a lot of fun.
So, to shoot the official matches, I'm guessing I have to be a USPSA member, correct? I don't know if I really want to drive 40 miles one way for the practice matches, but I have two ranges in 20 miles that I can shoot at easily. Plus I have friends to car pool.
I think my inability to add would cause me problems at a real match though.
6/17/2011 11:13:46 AM
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Well, I went to the match.
It was a practice match. The rules were that, instead of calculating the usual point socre, any A zone hit would be minus 1 second.
I came in at 12th place out of 35, mainly behind the master limited and master open shooters. Beat quite a few of them actually. I also got a pin for winning the noobie class. Which is funny, cause I could have also won D class by a wide margin.
This was much easier than I expected. I was expecting more 25 yard shots and less 10 yard shots. It was a lot of fun.
So, to shoot the official matches, I'm guessing I have to be a USPSA member, correct? I don't know if I really want to drive 40 miles one way for the practice matches, but I have two ranges in 20 miles that I can shoot at easily. Plus I have friends to car pool.
I think my inability to add would cause me problems at a real match though.
Well, I went to the match.
It was a practice match. The rules were that, instead of calculating the usual point socre, any A zone hit would be minus 1 second.
I came in at 12th place out of 35, mainly behind the master limited and master open shooters. Beat quite a few of them actually. I also got a pin for winning the noobie class. Which is funny, cause I could have also won D class by a wide margin.
This was much easier than I expected. I was expecting more 25 yard shots and less 10 yard shots. It was a lot of fun.
So, to shoot the official matches, I'm guessing I have to be a USPSA member, correct? I don't know if I really want to drive 40 miles one way for the practice matches, but I have two ranges in 20 miles that I can shoot at easily. Plus I have friends to car pool.
I think my inability to add would cause me problems at a real match though.
Nope you can shoot the real thing without being a member, if you are a member the USPSA will hold your scores for you and send you a little official card with your national rankings in each division.
6/18/2011 5:58:08 PM
I'm gonna head out to PPC tomorrow for my 1st USPSA match. I'm pretty stoked, I got a membership almost a year ago but haven't shot one yet...
Going to run a Sig P226, 20 round mags so I guess I'm in limited or open, I don really care. I'm just going to shoot
Going to run a Sig P226, 20 round mags so I guess I'm in limited or open, I don really care. I'm just going to shoot
6/18/2011 6:34:00 PM
Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
I'm gonna head out to PPC tomorrow for my 1st USPSA match. I'm pretty stoked, I got a membership almost a year ago but haven't shot one yet...
Going to run a Sig P226, 20 round mags so I guess I'm in limited or open, I don really care. I'm just going to shoot
I'm gonna head out to PPC tomorrow for my 1st USPSA match. I'm pretty stoked, I got a membership almost a year ago but haven't shot one yet...
Going to run a Sig P226, 20 round mags so I guess I'm in limited or open, I don really care. I'm just going to shoot
If the P226 is 9mm, you will be shooting Limited/minor.
If the P226 is .40, you will be shooting Limited/major.
Have fun, be safe.
Make your plan before you shoot each stage, burn it into your head, then shoot it.
6/18/2011 9:32:43 PM
Originally Posted By bigcraig:
If the P226 is 9mm, you will be shooting Limited/minor.
If the P226 is .40, you will be shooting Limited/major.
Have fun, be safe.
Make your plan before you shoot each stage, burn it into your head, then shoot it.
Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
I'm gonna head out to PPC tomorrow for my 1st USPSA match. I'm pretty stoked, I got a membership almost a year ago but haven't shot one yet...
Going to run a Sig P226, 20 round mags so I guess I'm in limited or open, I don really care. I'm just going to shoot
I'm gonna head out to PPC tomorrow for my 1st USPSA match. I'm pretty stoked, I got a membership almost a year ago but haven't shot one yet...
Going to run a Sig P226, 20 round mags so I guess I'm in limited or open, I don really care. I'm just going to shoot
If the P226 is 9mm, you will be shooting Limited/minor.
If the P226 is .40, you will be shooting Limited/major.
Have fun, be safe.
Make your plan before you shoot each stage, burn it into your head, then shoot it.
Minor.
Been shooting multigun for a year.
Looking forward to it!
6/18/2011 10:02:44 PM
Crunch time is approaching for my pistol decision. My dad is willing to give me either a gen 2 G17 or a franken gun with a G21 slide and G20 gen 2 frame. I've found that I struggle with gen 3 but have zero issues with gen 2, so whatever I get will be used.
I can conceal both. I shoot both pretty well. It all comes down to caliber for me.
I can conceal both. I shoot both pretty well. It all comes down to caliber for me.
6/18/2011 10:28:22 PM
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Crunch time is approaching for my pistol decision. My dad is willing to give me either a gen 2 G17 or a franken gun with a G21 slide and G20 gen 2 frame. I've found that I struggle with gen 3 but have zero issues with gen 2, so whatever I get will be used.
I can conceal both. I shoot both pretty well. It all comes down to caliber for me.
Crunch time is approaching for my pistol decision. My dad is willing to give me either a gen 2 G17 or a franken gun with a G21 slide and G20 gen 2 frame. I've found that I struggle with gen 3 but have zero issues with gen 2, so whatever I get will be used.
I can conceal both. I shoot both pretty well. It all comes down to caliber for me.
If ammo will be a concern get the 9mm, cheaper to shoot. Better to have a gun you can afford to shoot then one you can't afford to shoot.
6/19/2011 12:29:15 AM
I like 9mm, I shoot in production and like reloading. It is good practice. I also shot local USPSA matches for almost 2 years before becoming a USPSA member. I was listed as unclassified, and still am since I have yet to shoot 6 classifiers but I don't think it will matter much since I will probably be in D.
Also don't worry about adding as long as you can tape targets and call out how many and where the holes in the targets are you will be fine. They do the math latter.
Also don't worry about adding as long as you can tape targets and call out how many and where the holes in the targets are you will be fine. They do the math latter.
