Service Rifle Questions from a New Guy (Long)
I'm hoping somebody can point me to some background info on how the rules for the four basic courses of fire (Offhand/Slow Fire, Sitting/Rapid Fire, Prone/Rapid Fire, and Prone/Slow Fire) were selected. I understand they have their roots in military use of the rifle and that is what prompts the following questions I have:
I'm particularly interested in know why the sling (even a field or quick sling configuration as when hunting) is not permitted for the offhand position since is is the least stable and it is a slow-fire stage.
Also curious as to why the least stable position, off hand, is a slow fire event - seems like a person (like a soldier) would select the most stable position that time allowed them, not the least stable. Offhand is typically the position of last resort such that time and/or environment do not permit selecting a more stable position. Seems as though offhand would be a more likely position for a time constrained situation as opposed to one round per minute rate of fire.
It seems odd too that the two current rapid fire stages (Sitting and Prone) both permit the use of a sling - which takes time to fit and adjust. If time was truly of the essence, then it seems unlikely there would be adequate time for a sling to be used (other than the field sling).
Just for reference, I accept the rules as they are, but given the roots the competition has in military use and tactics, these courses of fire are a bit puzzling and counter-intuitive. I'm just interest to learn how we arrived at the course of fire we have today and how it has changedd over time - Thanks.
The way I look at it is your OF is usually used in a fast situation, as for a snap shot, as for geting a glimps of a target with little time to use a sling. In prone and sitting, you are more likely to have time to set up the sling, as opposed to a quick standing shot.
JMHO
'Borg
Originally Posted By We-rBorg:
The way I look at it is your OF is usually used in a fast situation, as for a snap shot, as for geting a glimps of a target with little time to use a sling. In prone and sitting, you are more likely to have time to set up the sling, as opposed to a quick standing shot.
JMHO
'Borg
I see your point - but why then would offhand be a slow fire event instead of a rapid fire event if it was a "fast situation / snap shot?"
Originally Posted By madmatt81:
I see your point - but why then would offhand be a slow fire event instead of a rapid fire event if it was a "fast situation / snap shot?"
Safety is at least one reason. It originally simulated an infantry advance in reverse. I'll see if I can find the reference.
I believe it is because a sling offers zero advantage without an additonal rest, such as the knee in sitting or the ground in prone. Using one offhand is not effective and hence poor form, in spite of what non-accomplished shooters (like myself) might think. The military does not teach sling use in offhand, or at least it didn't when they taught me.
Roy
Originally Posted By madmatt81:Just for reference, I accept the rules as they are, but given the roots the competition has in military use and tactics, these courses of fire are a bit puzzling and counter-intuitive. I'm just interest to learn how we arrived at the course of fire we have today and how it has changedd over time - Thanks.
It has nothing to do with tactics or what a soldier should do in combat. It's about marksmanship. If it was about simulating combat, no one would learn anything about marksmanship.
B
+1 on the last post.
Originally Posted By bpm990d:
It has nothing to do with tactics or what a soldier should do in combat. It's about marksmanship. If it was about simulating combat, no one would learn anything about marksmanship.
B
Well, yes and no. The Army qualification COF used in the National Matches (the COF has varied since 1903) simulated the positional warfare common to the day.
Originally Posted By jcs1:
Originally Posted By bpm990d:
It has nothing to do with tactics or what a soldier should do in combat. It's about marksmanship. If it was about simulating combat, no one would learn anything about marksmanship.
B
Well, yes and no. The Army qualification COF used in the National Matches (the COF has varied since 1903) simulated the positional warfare common to the day.
Incorrect. In the early 1900s the qualifications are much different that what is done now. First year recruits and poor shooters shot what is known as the Marksman's Course.
It had three tables.
Slow Fire
Rapid Fire
Skirmish Run
Simulations of combat were done in skirmish runs on Figure targets that scored a point for a hit. If you have ever fired at the Wilson Matches, they are similar to Run Downs. The NMC as we know it is most similar to the first two tables of the Marksman's Course. Slow fire on A & B targets at 200, 300, 500 & 600. Rapid fire on F targets (similar to the the current USMC Dog Target). We do not do anything remotely similar to Skirmish Runs in High Power.
The 1904 Small Arms Firing Regulations are available on line.
I also recommend
An Army of Marksmen by Douglas C. McChristian
B
Originally Posted By bpm990d:
Incorrect. In the early 1900s the qualifications are much different that what is done now.
Which is why I said "varied since 1903".
