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Legal Friday is over; Handgun shipping question...
4/28/2012 10:22:46 AM
I gave my FFL a call yesterday to inquire about transferring a pistol for me which led us into a different conversation about shipping pistols via UPS, FedEx etc from an individual (me) to a dealer (FFL). His claim is that I as an individual (non FFL) CAN NOT ship a handgun to an FFL even following the common rules that most of us know about (Must be shipped UPS or FedEx/ Must declare the fact that there is a firearm in the package/ Cannot be shipped USPS/ Must go overnight or 2nd day delivery etc).
Now normally I would just chalk it up to a guy trying to corral me into "needing" his services but in this case I have found the person in question to be pretty knowledgable and accurate with his facts which gave me pause and reason to consider whether or not I know the rules as well as I think I do.
So hive, does anyone know of any statute that restricts we peons (individuals/ Non-FFL) in NY state from shipping a handgun via UPS, FedEx etc to an FFL holder?
Now normally I would just chalk it up to a guy trying to corral me into "needing" his services but in this case I have found the person in question to be pretty knowledgable and accurate with his facts which gave me pause and reason to consider whether or not I know the rules as well as I think I do.
So hive, does anyone know of any statute that restricts we peons (individuals/ Non-FFL) in NY state from shipping a handgun via UPS, FedEx etc to an FFL holder?
4/28/2012 10:46:41 AM
Originally Posted By Adirondack47:
I gave my FFL a call yesterday to inquire about transferring a pistol for me which led us into a different conversation about shipping pistols via UPS, FedEx etc from an individual (me) to a dealer (FFL). His claim is that I as an individual (non FFL) CAN NOT ship a handgun to an FFL even following the common rules that most of us know about (Must be shipped UPS or FedEx/ Must declare the fact that there is a firearm in the package/ Cannot be shipped USPS/ Must go overnight or 2nd day delivery etc).
Now normally I would just chalk it up to a guy trying to corral me into "needing" his services but in this case I have found the person in question to be pretty knowledgable and accurate with his facts which gave me pause and reason to consider whether or not I know the rules as well as I think I do.
So hive, does anyone know of any statute that restricts we peons (individuals/ Non-FFL) in NY state from shipping a handgun via UPS, FedEx etc to an FFL holder?
I gave my FFL a call yesterday to inquire about transferring a pistol for me which led us into a different conversation about shipping pistols via UPS, FedEx etc from an individual (me) to a dealer (FFL). His claim is that I as an individual (non FFL) CAN NOT ship a handgun to an FFL even following the common rules that most of us know about (Must be shipped UPS or FedEx/ Must declare the fact that there is a firearm in the package/ Cannot be shipped USPS/ Must go overnight or 2nd day delivery etc).
Now normally I would just chalk it up to a guy trying to corral me into "needing" his services but in this case I have found the person in question to be pretty knowledgable and accurate with his facts which gave me pause and reason to consider whether or not I know the rules as well as I think I do.
So hive, does anyone know of any statute that restricts we peons (individuals/ Non-FFL) in NY state from shipping a handgun via UPS, FedEx etc to an FFL holder?
There aren't any NY specific regulations that I know of, however in the situation you describe it might be difficult to remove said handgun from your pistol permit since you won't have a purchase coupon from the buyer. Depending on the pistol clerk in your county it may or may not be a problem.
4/28/2012 10:53:44 AM
Originally Posted By Adirondack47:
His claim is that I as an individual (non FFL) CAN NOT ship a handgun to an FFL even following the common rules that most of us know about (Must be shipped UPS or FedEx/ Must declare the fact that there is a firearm in the package/ Cannot be shipped USPS/ Must go overnight or 2nd day delivery etc).
His claim is that I as an individual (non FFL) CAN NOT ship a handgun to an FFL even following the common rules that most of us know about (Must be shipped UPS or FedEx/ Must declare the fact that there is a firearm in the package/ Cannot be shipped USPS/ Must go overnight or 2nd day delivery etc).
Your FFL is incorrect although your local pistol licensing agency may require the handgun be shipped via a FFL for transfer to another FFL. In addition, no firearm declaration is required if you're shipping a firearm to a FFL using a common carrier. AFAIK UPS requires next day air service when shipping a handgun.
4/28/2012 10:58:44 AM
USPS: Handguns FFL to FFL only (afaik 03 C&R may not use USPS for handguns)
FedEx & UPS have Corporate Policy of requiring handguns to be sent using premium services, else their insurance will not cover loss/damage.
Gun Control Act of 1968 that set up the requirements of becoming Federally licensed to deal in firearms or destructive devices clearly set the terms that any individual may send any firearm to any dealer or manufacturer without the involvement of another dealer (FFL)
With so much legal and anti-business bullshit, folks figure out a way to get something done with out getting caught on a snatch hook, and it becomes "the law" as justification for making others do it their way.
FedEx & UPS have Corporate Policy of requiring handguns to be sent using premium services, else their insurance will not cover loss/damage.
Gun Control Act of 1968 that set up the requirements of becoming Federally licensed to deal in firearms or destructive devices clearly set the terms that any individual may send any firearm to any dealer or manufacturer without the involvement of another dealer (FFL)
With so much legal and anti-business bullshit, folks figure out a way to get something done with out getting caught on a snatch hook, and it becomes "the law" as justification for making others do it their way.
4/28/2012 11:01:00 AM
Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Your FFL is incorrect although your local pistol licensing agency may require the handgun be shipped via a FFL for transfer to another FFL. In addition, no firearm declaration is required if you're shipping a firearm to a FFL using a common carrier. AFAIK UPS requires next day air service when shipping a handgun.
Originally Posted By Adirondack47:
His claim is that I as an individual (non FFL) CAN NOT ship a handgun to an FFL even following the common rules that most of us know about (Must be shipped UPS or FedEx/ Must declare the fact that there is a firearm in the package/ Cannot be shipped USPS/ Must go overnight or 2nd day delivery etc).
His claim is that I as an individual (non FFL) CAN NOT ship a handgun to an FFL even following the common rules that most of us know about (Must be shipped UPS or FedEx/ Must declare the fact that there is a firearm in the package/ Cannot be shipped USPS/ Must go overnight or 2nd day delivery etc).
Your FFL is incorrect although your local pistol licensing agency may require the handgun be shipped via a FFL for transfer to another FFL. In addition, no firearm declaration is required if you're shipping a firearm to a FFL using a common carrier. AFAIK UPS requires next day air service when shipping a handgun.
I walk in and tell them "it went to Bubba's Gunshop in Bite my ass, Alabama" they remove it and put the information on the form.
4/28/2012 2:35:22 PM
Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Your FFL is incorrect although your local pistol licensing agency may require the handgun be shipped via a FFL for transfer to another FFL. In addition, no firearm declaration is required if you're shipping a firearm to a FFL using a common carrier. AFAIK UPS requires next day air service when shipping a handgun.
Originally Posted By Adirondack47:
His claim is that I as an individual (non FFL) CAN NOT ship a handgun to an FFL even following the common rules that most of us know about (Must be shipped UPS or FedEx/ Must declare the fact that there is a firearm in the package/ Cannot be shipped USPS/ Must go overnight or 2nd day delivery etc).
His claim is that I as an individual (non FFL) CAN NOT ship a handgun to an FFL even following the common rules that most of us know about (Must be shipped UPS or FedEx/ Must declare the fact that there is a firearm in the package/ Cannot be shipped USPS/ Must go overnight or 2nd day delivery etc).
Your FFL is incorrect although your local pistol licensing agency may require the handgun be shipped via a FFL for transfer to another FFL. In addition, no firearm declaration is required if you're shipping a firearm to a FFL using a common carrier. AFAIK UPS requires next day air service when shipping a handgun.
Ive done it before with other NYS residents and used a formal bill of sale which I then submitted to the PP division to have the pistol removed from my own permit in my county without any problem. You dont happen to have a citation (in NYS or Federal law) where it clearly states that there is no prohibition on an individual sending a handgun to an FFL dealer via UPS, FedEx etc do ya?
I think that he would be open to changing his stance if I can document it for him. And in the process maybe I can save someone else the trouble in the future
Thanks for the replies gents.
4/28/2012 2:47:13 PM
I've sent(fed x) as well as hand delivered to out of state FFL's. Each time I provide my county with the FFL holders info.
4/28/2012 3:10:33 PM
Originally Posted By Adirondack47:
You dont happen to have a citation (in NYS or Federal law) where it clearly states that there is no prohibition on an individual sending a handgun to an FFL dealer via UPS, FedEx etc do ya?
You dont happen to have a citation (in NYS or Federal law) where it clearly states that there is no prohibition on an individual sending a handgun to an FFL dealer via UPS, FedEx etc do ya?
ATF FAQ has transfer and shipping info. The CFR Part 478 has the codified regulations the FAQ refers to (478.30 etc.).
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-transfer
Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
§ 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.
No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That the provisions of this section:
No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That the provisions of this section:
