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 Great shooting ranges around CNY (Syracuse)
SWATsnip3r  [Member]
6/13/2006 7:09:13 PM EDT
I am currently a member of Camillus Sportsman's club and I hate it.

<rant> So I got out of work early today, headed to Ralins to get some targets. Called my brother and friend and told them to meet me there no f'ing around so we could have a while to shoot. Well my brother got to the club 3 mins before I did and what was going on? Oh yes, the Fuddy Trap shoot. Which means no Center Fire Range. This is not the first time I have run into this.

I spend 85$ a year there so I can practice shooting, because I just bought my AR and I am still getting use to it. And becasue I am not in a league I get the shaft, when I cant even get there to practice?I figured it out:

Joined May 28th
85$ a year
365 days a year =
.24$ a day * 30 days (being generous) = $7.20
So they can pay me the balance because I am serisouly going to leave.


I want a good range to go to where there arent many rules regarding fire rate, what targets we shoot, and a long range (200-300 yd) so I can practice with my AR.

I know about Otisco and Elbridge and I have never see Otisco but have seen Elbridge. Any Suggestions?
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adirondack47  [Member]
6/13/2006 8:02:27 PM EDT
Aimless, SP10- Am i clairvoyant or what?

SWATsnip3r- I posted a similar rant about 2 weeks ago. I have been a member for the last 3 years and grow more angry by the day with the fudds, O.C.S.O "Snipers" , 22. weenies and their ilk. My membership is up this summer and i believe that i will be going to liverpool. Usually empty during the week, medium sized membership and they have a nice flat 200 yard range. Im sure others will chime in with local ranges, but i think your in the right mind frame. The jig on camillus is up. Maybe in 15-20 years when the fudds pass on the place may get better, but the short term doesnt look very good.
SP10  [Team Member]
6/14/2006 6:15:06 AM EDT
Otisco is limited to a 100yd range. Other than that, a very good club. However, like most clubs, Otisco is infected with the "hunter" mindset. Initially, when we started shooting EBRs on a regular basis, not all were happy-putting it mildly. So, I became more active in the club leadership. Attend meetings, run for a club office, and make the changes happen.

As a result, we now offer military rifle matches, defensive pistol matches, and some kick-ass training opportunities at Otisco. I still deal with BS, but no big deal.

Guys, you can bitch all you want, but unless you make things happen, the status quo will prevail. If you like Camillus, get more involved and make the needed changes. Or move on and hope for the best.
thirsty  [Team Member]
6/14/2006 7:36:51 AM EDT
I'm snip3r's brother.

adirondack47, you weren't kidding. Out of 5 or 6 times going to the range, we've so far had to turn back twice. I really feel I'm getting ripped off. The worst part is they don't seem to have a printed schedule, so we have to wing it and hope the fudds don't send us home because they can't concentrate with centerfire rifles being shot 50 yards to their right, when a large number of 12ga shotguns are firing directly to their left.

Oh, and when I got home I scratched the hell out of my car pulling into the alleyway. Another tractor-trailer driver parked out front of my driveway to visit the strip club across the street and forced me to turn around him wide- too wide for the alley. So I have a gouged door panel complete with two 10" scrapes. I'll bet that's over $1K to fix. My car is only worth about $4K. It was my fault for making the attempt, but never have I ever been that pissed off.
SP10  [Team Member]
6/14/2006 8:03:41 AM EDT
That truly sucks, Thirsty.

Guys, any idea of how many like-minded EBR shooters there are at Camillus? I'd suggest you find out, organize, and attend the monthly meetings. Looks like there are 3 in this thread alone. If you are enough of a force, make the trap guys take notice. Tell them what range and rule changes you want, and see how it shakes out. You have nothing to lose and the best club facility in the area to gain.

I know from experience that a small fraction of club members attend meetings and actually do the work that keeps a club functional. They are also the ones that dictate policy. If you only pay your dues and do nothing else at the club, guess what? You will have no voice and will have to abide by the rules others dictate. That's the simple cold hard fact.
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44rdv4rk  [Member]
6/14/2006 9:04:46 AM EDT
check out the pompey rod & gun club... its small, and a bit underfunded, but the range is open sunrise to sunset, and the only restrictions seem to be no alcohol and sweep up your brass. nice quiet plae to blast away.

$40 a year membership.
SWATsnip3r  [Member]
6/14/2006 9:54:17 AM EDT
Oh, you better believe I will be at their next meeting.

The next general meeting it at the end of them month. I say we all go and state our claims.

I will be using them for the CMP program they have going on in the next month.

adirondack47  [Member]
6/14/2006 11:09:58 AM EDT
Marc's got the right idea. He was able to infiltrate Otisco and take it over from the inside (and bring in copius amounts of positive cash flow for the club

I will be using them for the CMP program they have going on in the next month.

Swatsnip3r- you will not be dissapointed with this class. I took it 3 years ago and it was the best $40 i spent all summer. The CMP Program is one of the things that Camillus really does well. It is one of the most well established and operated CMP Programs in the area. Here is some pics from when i took the class in June of 03'

SWATsnip3r  [Member]
6/14/2006 1:42:43 PM EDT
If anyone else is a member of Camillus Sportman's club please attend the meeting at the end of the month so we can all stake our claims, so I dont look like some 20 year old ass hole kid complaining. I think I will need support against the Fuddy Fudds and .22 weanies (<probably not against them but whatever).

If not I understand, I do not even want to go, but I understand some of you are leaving, unfortunately I still have a while there. Let me know

akastormi  [Member]
6/14/2006 3:34:53 PM EDT
i grew up in camillus not far from the range i never joined i knew the people running the show and i dont think things have changed good luck at pitching a fit
fp1201  [Team Member]
6/14/2006 4:53:04 PM EDT
Here's a few suggestions from someone whos been in the same situations you're in, only 15 or more years ago:
Don't pick on the Fuddys shooting Trap (altho you can get 'em going by telling them that Trap is for people too slow to shoot Skeet) because they're usually the folks really running the place. You might try joining them a time or two and there's two good reasions why: One You might like shooting Trap and second (and here's the alterior motive) Most likely they have a Trap team and these teams rotate as guest to other clubs within their tier/league, and you can go with the team to other clubs, and while you're there you can check out their facilities and pick up membership information on the spot.

If you don't lke the way things are being done or want your own EBR day, speak with the Board of Directors about it. Be sure to have a proposal in writing and the petetioned signatures of a significant number of members, the latter will require you to hangout at the club on nights when you'd rather do something else.

Don't discount the ".22 weenies" either, many of them go to extreme lengths to wring out every last frog hairs worth of accuracy out of a rifle that shoots two cents worth of ammo. Play with them for a while and you'll learn disciplin and patientce.

Be prepaired to accept a committee position or chairmanship of said committee if they like or accept your proposals. Lots of folks want change or programs that further their interests, but few will do the work required to bring it to be.

You can always come up here and shoot in the back woods of Lorraine where I shoot...$10. per year and you almost never see anybody and nobody bothers you either. YMMV
SP10  [Team Member]
6/14/2006 6:11:26 PM EDT
FP1201 is offering some sound advice. Won't do you much good p!ssing off the folks you have to work with. Attend the meeting and see how things work. If the meeting is anything like ours, they follow Robert's Rules. There should be a section about "discussion for good of the club", or some such BS. Having unannounced events which close the range to other members are complete BS, but I wouldn't be surprised if the events are posted in the club house. Does Camillus have an events bulletin board?

At one point ~2 years ago, after all our shooting riled up a few FUD members, my club was considering restricting hours on the range for EBRs. We had done a small night shoot, well within posted club hours, and often shot up to dusk. A riled up neighbor called the police as well as other club board members to complain. I got wind of this, and all the members I shoot with showed up at the next meeting to discuss it. Next thing I knew, I was elected to a club position and actually got to know the non-EBR members better. THEN, progress and good relations resulted, leading to the shooting and training events I now provide.

I attend meetings twice a month now, general meeting and the executive board meeting, as well as help out at other non-EBR club events. I make a point to pick up the range when other guys shooting milsurp leave a mess, as I want to present our interests in the best light possible. I make an effort to aid with club fundraisers-which I hate. You can see that there is a price to be paid
thirsty  [Team Member]
6/15/2006 5:40:33 AM EDT
What does it take to open a new shooting range? Say I could get a nice parcel of land out in the middle of nowhere. What kind of laws and regs would I have to contend with?
SWATsnip3r  [Member]
6/15/2006 7:56:15 AM EDT
Here it is in response to my email:

Dear Mr. Thurston;

I received your email forwarded by Doug Hague concerning rifle range
availability. I see from the date you referenced that you are have been a member
for only a few weeks. I believe I spoke to you on one of the nights in question.
Club rules involving range availability and postings should have been explained
to you at the time you requested membership. All ranges are available for
general membership use at all times unless there is a scheduled league event
involving that range or there is a scheduled event that places additional
restrictions on a particular range for safety or courtesy reasons.
Dates of these range closings are clearly posted in the clubhouse on the main
bulletin board calendar. These dates are also published in the club newsletter
mailed to all members and copies are also available in the clubhouse. The
clubhouse kitchen and indoor pistol range is also closed for general use during
one of these league matches. The range is closed from 4 PM until sundown. on the
day of a Trap League match.

At Camillus during any Trap Match the center fire rifle range is closed for the
safety of the rifle shooters and as a courtesy to the Trap shooters to eliminate
the distractions of noise and shooters inadvertently wandering into the
downrange visibility and shot path. The club hosts 10 of these summer league
matches per year from April through August. These rules are general in nature to
all clubs in the area that have adjacent ranges or host registered events for
any shooting discipline.

The only time that the rifle range is closed for general center fire rifle usage
in the evening is on Monday and Friday night when the High Power Rifle League is
active or on Tuesday nights when the club is hosting a Central New York Trap
League Match between the Camillus Club and one of the remaining 5 other local
clubs in our division. These clubs are Pompey, Dewitt, Skaneateles, Bridgeport,
and Three Rivers. Other clubs participating in this league are: Falcons
Sportsmen, South Shore, Pathfinder, North Syracuse, Central Square, and North
Syracuse. There are 800 + shooters participating in this league.

We do allow rim fire rifle shooting on the center fire rifle range at 50 yards
only during the Trap League match unless there is an objection from the visiting
team in which case we close the center fire rifle range entirely. There are
approximately 150 shooters participating in one of these evening league matches.

I would recommend that if you want guaranteed range availability in the evening
during the week that you use the club on a Wednesday or Thursday night. Range
availability on Monday, Tuesday, and Friday evenings during the summer are
available as posted. Range availability on weekends depends on the posted
schedule and in general is available any evening.

This is a very active shooting club with 400+ members with many disciplines
operating in a restricted area of space. The club tries to accommodate all
shooters requirements as best as possible for the majority of active members. If
you feel that the Camillus Sportsmen’s Club does not adequately serve your
shooting requirements we will refund your membership fees at you request. The
Club Rules concerning range safety and courtesy will not be changed. If you
would like to discuss our range availability or club rules further please feel
free to contact me directly at 685-0443 or by email.


William Parfitt – Pres. CSC

I might be getting my money back.
fp1201  [Team Member]
6/15/2006 8:22:49 AM EDT
Seem pretty straightforward and accomodateing to me, not to mention a comprehensive and direct reply to your concerns.
If you're truly un-happy with your membership there, accept the refund offer and find another range. They could have told you to go piss in your hat, ya ain't gett'n nuthin back.
Keep this in mind: Trap shooters rule the clubs during the late spring and summer months, and that's a fact of most all the clubs North of the Hudson...join or avoid the practice and league nites.
SP10  [Team Member]
6/15/2006 8:29:41 AM EDT
The courtesy closings are pretty standard fair for scheduled events. Otisco closes the rifle range for scheduled league trap shoots as they are adjacent to each other, seperated by a berm. The difference is this is a once a month occurence, and during the summer usually falls on a Wednesday, not weekends.

Other than owning yor own land in a rural location with good berms, your options are limited.

SWATsnip3r  [Member]
6/15/2006 9:47:57 AM EDT
Here is my response to the email he sent.


Thanks for the swift response. I understand the need to accommodate all of the members. I will now be regularly attending the meeting at the end of every month to get more involved. After speaking with my brother he insisted that I was some what out of line and maybe put you on the defensive. I assure you that was not my intention. I however, was somewhat angered when I got to the range and had to turn back, but I guess that is my own fault for not finding the schedule.

On a lighter note, I would like to continue with the Camillus Range.

One more question, do you know if people that are not part of the range can participate in the CMP clinic in a couple weeks? My friends are interested and I was just wondering if, after paying the fee of course, they could participate. Thanks again.

Jonathan Thurston

I was steamed but now I see everyones point.
olythecoltkillr  [Member]
6/17/2006 7:02:07 PM EDT
pompey rod and gun club is a nice little range, i met the range master last summer and he is a cool guy and a buddy of mine does alot of work for them at the range, look into it youll like it, not that i get much time to go there now that im in korea........
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