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 Would secession make life in Texas better?
motown_steve  [Team Member]
12/4/2012 4:00:59 PM
Let's say that Texas were to secede from the Union, and let's say the Union just let us go. No war, but we're no longer Americans. We're our own nation.

Would life substantially improve? We would definitely lose things like funding for Federal highways and various other programs that we have which the Feds fund. On the other side, we would have options to pay for those things either through taxes or by cutting funding for other programs.

Texas has a strong research and educational community through colleges and industry in the state, but it is also true that developments in other states do make life better in Texas. Then there is the question as to whether there would be economic hardships caused by Texas no longer having unlimited access to the rest of the US market place. Would that drive businesses away or bring new ones in? Would the US punish Texas by placing tariffs or import bans on Texan goods? Would the the US ban certain exports to Texas?

I guess I'm just fantasizing and wonder if there would be more pros or more cons.
wp6529  [Team Member]
12/4/2012 4:06:08 PM
Given the large diverse population, natural resources, ports, etc. My assessment is that if it were an amicable separation i.e. no hostilities, free trade, etc. that it would be rather neutral and things would go largely unchanged. Of course if it was less amicable it could go the way of Cuba where the US embargos Texas while the rest or the world continues to do business with us.
SoftwareJanitor  [Member]
12/4/2012 4:18:11 PM
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Let's say that Texas were to secede from the Union, and let's say the Union just let us go. No war, but we're no longer Americans. We're our own nation.

Would life substantially improve? We would definitely lose things like funding for Federal highways and various other programs that we have which the Feds fund.


The Feds don't fund ANYTHING. Taxpayers here in Texas fund it. We send our gas tax dollars to Washington and they send us back PENNIES of it. Same with other funding. The fewer layers of government that taxes go through the less of it is skimmed off for overhead.

On the other side, we would have options to pay for those things either through taxes or by cutting funding for other programs.


We wouldn't have to pay for the Federal Government's love of "unfunded mandates".


Texas has a strong research and educational community through colleges and industry in the state, but it is also true that developments in other states do make life better in Texas.


Do those developments also make life better for people in Mexico, Canada or even Europe? Sure. It isn't like we can't still tap into what other states are doing.

Then there is the question as to whether there would be economic hardships caused by Texas no longer having unlimited access to the rest of the US market place.


Who in the world doesn't have pretty much unlimited access to the US market place? The US almost unilaterally freely trades with just about every country except a few labeled as "naughty". The US gives pretty much free access to many countries that block US goods from their markets.

Would that drive businesses away or bring new ones in? Would the US punish Texas by placing tariffs or import bans on Texan goods? Would the the US ban certain exports to Texas?


Heck, the US was stupid enough to sign NAFTA which gives unfair advantages to both Canada and Mexico over the US... why wouldn't Texas be able to trick the US into a similar deal favorable to Texas?

I guess I'm just fantasizing and wonder if there would be more pros or more cons.


Hard to say... But a lot of times I think the rest of the country needs Texas a lot worse than we need them.
Recon_by_Fire  [Member]
12/4/2012 5:20:28 PM
I would guess Texas would be better off without the US, more so than the US would be without Texas.
scottfire1957  [Team Member]
12/4/2012 7:23:24 PM

the Fed could let us go, give Puerto Rico statehood, and not have to change the flag!
carsandguns  [Team Member]
12/4/2012 11:10:40 PM
It's a good thought and I wish it would happen. Doubt it ever will, but still fun to think about.

We would have to ramp up our military pretty significantly to protect the borders. When everyone see how kick ass our new county is they would be trying to invade us left and right.

Just think how fast we could expert the thugs and low life's that are already here though. If you screw up we check the birth certificate. Born in Texas we ship you off to Clayton Williams rock busting camp he campaigned on. If your not born in Texas you still get to make small gravel out of large gravel but when we are done with you it's a one way ticket to out of our great Country. Granted there would need to be some exceptions. Young cute girls that can be reahilibilitated will have the opportunity to prove they are worth keeping around. Fat and bitchy. They gone.

JBnTX  [Member]
12/5/2012 1:57:54 PM
Who feeds, clothes and houses all the elderly who will lose their US government social security and medicare checks.
Kiss your US military retirement checks and benefits goodbye.
What about those who lose their US government welfare checks.

There's not enough jobs in Texas for all those people, and certainly not enough money to support them.

You'll need a US passport or visa just to visit relatives in Oklahoma, Arkansas and New Mexico.
Those states are now in a foreign country.

What about clothing, automobile, food and other manufacturers that refuse to ship their products outside the United States.
What about all those same companies that will immediately leave Texas because they are "American" companies.

All US government services such as veteran's hospitals, The Red Cross and many others will have to relocate to within the
United States.

What about foreign invaders who'd love nothing more than to establish their military bases right in
America's midsection. Texas can't fight them off forever.

Anyone who favors secession has clearly not thought it through.
SoftwareJanitor  [Member]
12/5/2012 2:44:36 PM
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Who feeds, clothes and houses all the elderly who will lose their US government social security and medicare checks.


Those are both "pay as you go" programs, being paid for by current Texas taxpayers. If the new Republic of Texas chose to continue those programs, people who are paying SS and Medicare taxes would have to continue to do so and the people collecting those checks could continue to do so through the new Texas national government. Some adjustment of tax rates and benefit amounts might be needed, but there is no reason that things would have to immediately end.

Kiss your US military retirement checks and benefits goodbye.


If a veteran moves to another country do they lose their benefits now? It wouldn't necessarily have to be that they would lose them.


What about those who lose their US government welfare checks.


Are you talking programs like Food Stamps, TANF and WIC? All those are paid today by Texans through their Federal income tax. As unpopular as it might be... Texas would probably have to have a national income tax... The advantage would be that unlike now, where the Feds skim a lot of it for their overhead, the money could go directly to the state agencies like TX HHSC that are already implementing those "federal" programs. That's right... the Feds send the money from Texas taxpayers back, minus their overhead, and TX state government actually does the work.

There's not enough jobs in Texas for all those people,


Those people aren't working now and probably wouldn't be working afterwards.

and certainly not enough money to support them.


But would there be more or less money if Texas collected the taxes directly without Washington DC taking their cut? Maybe we could come up with a better way of taxing than the Federal income tax while we are at it.

You'll need a US passport or visa just to visit relatives in Oklahoma, Arkansas and New Mexico.
Those states are now in a foreign country.


They already FEEL like foreign countries, especially New Mexico. That state is DEPRESSING. It seems like most of the people live in squalor over there, barely better than old Mexico.


What about clothing, automobile, food and other manufacturers that refuse to ship their products outside the United States.


Really? Seems like you can get anything you'd need in Mexico or Canada (well, guns and ammo are hard to get in Mexico). Not sure why Texas would be any different. We are a big market, an affluent market and it would be stupid of manufacturers to ignore it.

What about all those same companies that will immediately leave Texas because they are "American" companies.


How many opportunities would that create for local entrepreneurs?


All US government services such as veteran's hospitals, The Red Cross and many others will have to relocate to within the
United States.


The Red Cross is not a US Gov't agency. They already operate in a lot of foreign countries. Texas would have to assume operation of veteran's hospitals, but presumably like I said before, US veterans would not necessarily immediately lose their benefits just because they were in another country. And again, there isn't really a "trust fund" for military benefits, it is all being paid for with current taxes.


What about foreign invaders who'd love nothing more than to establish their military bases right in
America's midsection. Texas can't fight them off forever.


Why not? We would have to build our own military... but a lot of the US military is made of Texans now. And sure, it would cost a lot of money... but Texans are currently paying a lot of money to support the US military through taxes. I'd like to think that a Texan run military could be more efficient than the US is.

Anyone who favors secession has clearly not thought it through.


I'm not sure those who fear secession have thought it through as thoroughly as they might think. Sure, it would mean changes... and there would be good or bad things about it... I know it wouldn't be the utopia that some would like to think it would be... But I am also thinking it might not be as bad as some nay-sayers predict either. At any rate, it probably ain't gonna happen so it is all an academic exercise going through various scenarios.
Metalryder  [Team Member]
12/5/2012 5:13:12 PM
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Who feeds, clothes and houses all the elderly who will lose their US government social security and medicare checks.
Kiss your US military retirement checks and benefits goodbye.
What about those who lose their US government welfare checks.

There's not enough jobs in Texas for all those people, and certainly not enough money to support them.

You'll need a US passport or visa just to visit relatives in Oklahoma, Arkansas and New Mexico.
Those states are now in a foreign country.

What about clothing, automobile, food and other manufacturers that refuse to ship their products outside the United States.
What about all those same companies that will immediately leave Texas because they are "American" companies.

All US government services such as veteran's hospitals, The Red Cross and many others will have to relocate to within the
United States.

What about foreign invaders who'd love nothing more than to establish their military bases right in
America's midsection. Texas can't fight them off forever.

Anyone who favors secession has clearly not thought it through.


Within hours of our secession, foreign armies would flood up through the southern border, aided by insurgents that are long established in our State right now.

Welcome to the northen Mexican state of Tejas.
EasTexan  [Team Member]
12/5/2012 8:25:46 PM
Originally Posted By Metalryder:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Who feeds, clothes and houses all the elderly who will lose their US government social security and medicare checks.
Kiss your US military retirement checks and benefits goodbye.
What about those who lose their US government welfare checks.

There's not enough jobs in Texas for all those people, and certainly not enough money to support them.

You'll need a US passport or visa just to visit relatives in Oklahoma, Arkansas and New Mexico.
Those states are now in a foreign country.

What about clothing, automobile, food and other manufacturers that refuse to ship their products outside the United States.
What about all those same companies that will immediately leave Texas because they are "American" companies.

All US government services such as veteran's hospitals, The Red Cross and many others will have to relocate to within the
United States.

What about foreign invaders who'd love nothing more than to establish their military bases right in
America's midsection. Texas can't fight them off forever.

Anyone who favors secession has clearly not thought it through.


Within hours of our secession, foreign armies would flood up through the southern border, aided by insurgents that are long established in our State right now.

Welcome to the northen Mexican state of Tejas.


No, they would not.
thomasplaster223  [Team Member]
12/5/2012 8:48:34 PM


It did work for Croatia - eventually.
Harley1647  [Team Member]
12/6/2012 3:51:32 AM
Oh the drug cartels would just love to control Texas as well as the remainder of the NM/AZ/CA border.

Even if Texas could do the Republic thing again, think Obama would let us go? The 1st Cav at Ft Hood? All that artillery at Ft Bliss? Airborne from Kentucky and South Carolina? Cruise missles and precision targeting would take out targets without scratching the paint on the infrastucture....Barry would start calling himself Abe for winning the second civil war.


"fraid it ain't real likely!
gearjammer351  [Team Member]
12/6/2012 4:32:13 PM
Originally Posted By Recon_by_Fire:
I would guess Texas would be better off without the US, more so than the US would be without Texas.


This is my short answer, but there are a LOT of variables. A book or two could be written on just the possibilities (good & bad).
SoftwareJanitor  [Member]
12/6/2012 5:24:02 PM
Originally Posted By Harley1647:
Oh the drug cartels would just love to control Texas as well as the remainder of the NM/AZ/CA border.

Even if Texas could do the Republic thing again, think Obama would let us go? The 1st Cav at Ft Hood? All that artillery at Ft Bliss? Airborne from Kentucky and South Carolina? Cruise missles and precision targeting would take out targets without scratching the paint on the infrastucture....Barry would start calling himself Abe for winning the second civil war.


"fraid it ain't real likely!


Unless he suddenly declares himself dictator for life or something Obama's term will be done in a few years...

What do you think the desertion rate would be if you asked US troops, many of whom are from Texas to fire on targets in Texas? Even in China, the tank crew declined to run over the protester in Tiennamen Square, and they were probably putting themselves in a lot more danger by doing so than US troops would be.

You think you don't like Obama now... there is an extremely large possibility that the next POTUS will be Hillary Clinton. You may be pining for the days of Obama...
JBnTX  [Member]
12/6/2012 5:53:22 PM
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By Metalryder:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Who feeds, clothes and houses all the elderly who will lose their US government social security and medicare checks.
Kiss your US military retirement checks and benefits goodbye.
What about those who lose their US government welfare checks.

There's not enough jobs in Texas for all those people, and certainly not enough money to support them.

You'll need a US passport or visa just to visit relatives in Oklahoma, Arkansas and New Mexico.
Those states are now in a foreign country.

What about clothing, automobile, food and other manufacturers that refuse to ship their products outside the United States.
What about all those same companies that will immediately leave Texas because they are "American" companies.

All US government services such as veteran's hospitals, The Red Cross and many others will have to relocate to within the
United States.

What about foreign invaders who'd love nothing more than to establish their military bases right in
America's midsection. Texas can't fight them off forever.

Anyone who favors secession has clearly not thought it through.


Within hours of our secession, foreign armies would flood up through the southern border, aided by insurgents that are long established in our State right now.

Welcome to the northen Mexican state of Tejas.


No, they would not.




Who would stop them?

Texans with guns may slow them down,
but they're NOT going to stop them.



Eastwood123  [Member]
12/6/2012 6:31:51 PM
If Zero tried to use force to stop Texas from leaving, there would be mass desertions from the military.
Could TX make it on its own, yes I think so. Just don't think its likely any time soon.
If (when) the US gets into a real sovereign debt crisis and some states start to realize they are carrying the load for bankrupt states like California and Illinois, then it won't surprise me to start hearing about the state legislature discussing its "options".


SoftwareJanitor  [Member]
12/6/2012 6:40:51 PM
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By Metalryder:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Who feeds, clothes and houses all the elderly who will lose their US government social security and medicare checks.
Kiss your US military retirement checks and benefits goodbye.
What about those who lose their US government welfare checks.

There's not enough jobs in Texas for all those people, and certainly not enough money to support them.

You'll need a US passport or visa just to visit relatives in Oklahoma, Arkansas and New Mexico.
Those states are now in a foreign country.

What about clothing, automobile, food and other manufacturers that refuse to ship their products outside the United States.
What about all those same companies that will immediately leave Texas because they are "American" companies.

All US government services such as veteran's hospitals, The Red Cross and many others will have to relocate to within the
United States.

What about foreign invaders who'd love nothing more than to establish their military bases right in
America's midsection. Texas can't fight them off forever.

Anyone who favors secession has clearly not thought it through.


Within hours of our secession, foreign armies would flood up through the southern border, aided by insurgents that are long established in our State right now.

Welcome to the northen Mexican state of Tejas.


No, they would not.


Who would stop them?

Texans with guns may slow them down,
but they're NOT going to stop them.


What armies are y'all talking about? The Mexican Army? They aren't that competent to begin with and are too busy trying to keep control of their own country right now (and appear to be losing). The Cartels control most of Northern Mexico and there are still those pesky Zapatas in southern Mexico. And while the Mexicans might not be able to take on Texas on their own they sure aren't going to let national Armies from their southern neighbors through their territory to help either.

So I guess you are talking about the Cartels. If they were going to try to invade Texas militarily they'd have already done it. The US federal gov't has done tee-tee do them so far, so what would be different... And I'm not sure the Cartels really want that. They seem to be happy with things more or less like they are so they can continue to profit on their drug trade.

If anything, Texans who weren't shackled by Washington D.C. folks who want unobstructed illegal immigration might have more ability to do something than they do now.
JBnTX  [Member]
12/6/2012 10:04:02 PM
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By Metalryder:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Who feeds, clothes and houses all the elderly who will lose their US government social security and medicare checks.
Kiss your US military retirement checks and benefits goodbye.
What about those who lose their US government welfare checks.

There's not enough jobs in Texas for all those people, and certainly not enough money to support them.

You'll need a US passport or visa just to visit relatives in Oklahoma, Arkansas and New Mexico.
Those states are now in a foreign country.

What about clothing, automobile, food and other manufacturers that refuse to ship their products outside the United States.
What about all those same companies that will immediately leave Texas because they are "American" companies.

All US government services such as veteran's hospitals, The Red Cross and many others will have to relocate to within the
United States.

What about foreign invaders who'd love nothing more than to establish their military bases right in
America's midsection. Texas can't fight them off forever.

Anyone who favors secession has clearly not thought it through.


Within hours of our secession, foreign armies would flood up through the southern border, aided by insurgents that are long established in our State right now.

Welcome to the northen Mexican state of Tejas.


No, they would not.


Who would stop them?

Texans with guns may slow them down,
but they're NOT going to stop them.


What armies are y'all talking about? The Mexican Army?


What about the Chinese, the Russians, the Cubans, The Iranians.
I'm sure Hugo Chávez from Venezuela would love to have a military base in Texas.

Imagine millions of foreign soldiers stationed in Texas, with nukes?

Texas will never secede, or be allowed to.
Just look at a map to see why.

If you own Texas, you can literally cut the United States in half, military speaking.

And look at all those landing beaches between Brownsville and Beaumont that are a
direct shot from Venezuela and Cuba. The attackers could totally bypass Mexico.


refidnasb  [Member]
12/6/2012 10:11:47 PM
The yankee liberals claim the US would punish Texas with heavy embargos and tariffs making consumer goods and staples very expensive here. That would take some adjustment for overpriced building materials like sheetrock and lumber.

You'd need to find a way to talk old people out of Social Security somehow, they paid for it fair and square they would want it all to be paid.

For a few years things would be rough around here I think. Then they would get much, much better.
9Mak  [Member]
12/6/2012 10:55:35 PM
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By Metalryder:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Who feeds, clothes and houses all the elderly who will lose their US government social security and medicare checks.
Kiss your US military retirement checks and benefits goodbye.
What about those who lose their US government welfare checks.

There's not enough jobs in Texas for all those people, and certainly not enough money to support them.

You'll need a US passport or visa just to visit relatives in Oklahoma, Arkansas and New Mexico.
Those states are now in a foreign country.

What about clothing, automobile, food and other manufacturers that refuse to ship their products outside the United States.
What about all those same companies that will immediately leave Texas because they are "American" companies.

All US government services such as veteran's hospitals, The Red Cross and many others will have to relocate to within the
United States.

What about foreign invaders who'd love nothing more than to establish their military bases right in
America's midsection. Texas can't fight them off forever.

Anyone who favors secession has clearly not thought it through.


Within hours of our secession, foreign armies would flood up through the southern border, aided by insurgents that are long established in our State right now.

Welcome to the northen Mexican state of Tejas.


No, they would not.


Who would stop them?

Texans with guns may slow them down,
but they're NOT going to stop them.


What armies are y'all talking about? The Mexican Army? They aren't that competent to begin with and are too busy trying to keep control of their own country right now (and appear to be losing). The Cartels control most of Northern Mexico and there are still those pesky Zapatas in southern Mexico. And while the Mexicans might not be able to take on Texas on their own they sure aren't going to let national Armies from their southern neighbors through their territory to help either.

So I guess you are talking about the Cartels. If they were going to try to invade Texas militarily they'd have already done it. The US federal gov't has done tee-tee do them so far, so what would be different... And I'm not sure the Cartels really want that. They seem to be happy with things more or less like they are so they can continue to profit on their drug trade.

If anything, Texans who weren't shackled by Washington D.C. folks who want unobstructed illegal immigration might have more ability to do something than they do now.


First of all, I know first hand the Texas Military Forces would certainly be able to hold their own against any invading armies -- I promise.
Second, Texas State Guard would be activated to Federal (As in Texas Federal) status and would become trained for actual combat, and we would rapidly produce an army of great size.

And if you think a country of armed citizens could not prevent an invasion, you are STUPID.
^^^^^^^ This alone stopped Japan, the only country that had the reasonable means and ability to invade us on our own soil with a full on, complete land invasion. They knew it would not be possible to combat all of us.

Invading a country that is armed is never an easy thing. That is why Switzerland has stood so long.

Texans with guns would only slow them down...What an idiot...Read some history.
Most people who take basic self defense courses and internet/backyard combat commandos will know enough about small arms and small unit tactics to display a sizable and reasonable ability to defend themselves against any foreign power when numbers are not a major factor.

Texas would be a superpower in less than two decades.
Boognish  [Member]
12/6/2012 11:18:40 PM
This thread has reached tin-foil hat territory
SoftwareJanitor  [Member]
12/6/2012 11:40:19 PM
Originally Posted By refidnasb:
The yankee liberals claim the US would punish Texas with heavy embargos and tariffs making consumer goods and staples very expensive here


Unless they were to try to blockade the gulf and somehow close the Mexican border which they've been unable or unwilling to do while Texas is a part of the US, they would be hurting themselves with tariffs and embargoes as much or more than hurting us.

That would take some adjustment for overpriced building materials like sheetrock and lumber.


That assumes we have no gypsum or timber resources in Texas, both of which are wrong. We actually have a lot of those resources that aren't currently being exploited. Exploiting local resources instead of importing them would probably have long term benefits for the Texas economy.

You'd need to find a way to talk old people out of Social Security somehow, they paid for it fair and square they would want it all to be paid.


Do you think the money old people "paid into" Social Security is in an account somewhere? NO! It was spent as soon as it was collected. Current taxes are what is paying benefits now. All Texas would have to do to continue Social Security would be to collect the same taxes we are currently paying to the US gov't, and cut the checks. The bottom line is that Social Security always was a swindle, and it is doomed to fail anyway, even if Texas stays in the US. Nobody under 55 today is likely to ever see a dime of the money they've paid in.

For a few years things would be rough around here I think. Then they would get much, much better.


I think you are probably right... I just don't think the ways things would be rough are necessarily the ways that the union loyalist doomsayers are predicting... Undoubtedly there would be some unexpected consequences... but there would be some unexpected benefits as well.
JBnTX  [Member]
12/6/2012 11:53:57 PM
Originally Posted By 9Mak:
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By Metalryder:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Who feeds, clothes and houses all the elderly who will lose their US government social security and medicare checks.
Kiss your US military retirement checks and benefits goodbye.
What about those who lose their US government welfare checks.

There's not enough jobs in Texas for all those people, and certainly not enough money to support them.

You'll need a US passport or visa just to visit relatives in Oklahoma, Arkansas and New Mexico.
Those states are now in a foreign country.

What about clothing, automobile, food and other manufacturers that refuse to ship their products outside the United States.
What about all those same companies that will immediately leave Texas because they are "American" companies.

All US government services such as veteran's hospitals, The Red Cross and many others will have to relocate to within the
United States.

What about foreign invaders who'd love nothing more than to establish their military bases right in
America's midsection. Texas can't fight them off forever.

Anyone who favors secession has clearly not thought it through.


Within hours of our secession, foreign armies would flood up through the southern border, aided by insurgents that are long established in our State right now.

Welcome to the northen Mexican state of Tejas.


No, they would not.


Who would stop them?

Texans with guns may slow them down,
but they're NOT going to stop them.


What armies are y'all talking about? The Mexican Army? They aren't that competent to begin with and are too busy trying to keep control of their own country right now (and appear to be losing). The Cartels control most of Northern Mexico and there are still those pesky Zapatas in southern Mexico. And while the Mexicans might not be able to take on Texas on their own they sure aren't going to let national Armies from their southern neighbors through their territory to help either.

So I guess you are talking about the Cartels. If they were going to try to invade Texas militarily they'd have already done it. The US federal gov't has done tee-tee do them so far, so what would be different... And I'm not sure the Cartels really want that. They seem to be happy with things more or less like they are so they can continue to profit on their drug trade.

If anything, Texans who weren't shackled by Washington D.C. folks who want unobstructed illegal immigration might have more ability to do something than they do now.



Texans with guns would only slow them down...What an idiot...Read some history.
.


There's no need for personal attacks.

I have read Texas history and I found no mention of any defense against heavy bombardment of Texas cities from
enemy submarines in the Gulf of Mexico.

No mention of ICBM's from China or Russia.
No mention of MIG fighter jets at 700mph.

The enemy will not come walking out of Mexico in broad daylight so all you good old Texas boys with your tacticool
sunglasses and all the latest gadgets attached to your AR-15s can sit back in your pickup trucks and pick them off.

AND, Switzerland has stood for so long because they don't have anything anyone wants.
SoftwareJanitor  [Member]
12/7/2012 12:08:21 AM
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
I have read Texas history and I found no mention of any defense against heavy bombardment of Texas cities from
enemy submarines in the Gulf of Mexico.


Who is going to heavily bombard massively populated cities? Really... Who is that evil they'd do something like that unprovoked? It would likely start WWIII. I hear all this armageddon talk, but there is no reasonable explanation as to why any of the significant world players would suddenly go off the deep end.

No mention of ICBM's from China or Russia.


Why in the world would China or Russia get involved? Let alone to that extent. Who's to say one or the other or both of those countries might not side with a Republic of Texas against the US? If Texas was on its own and needed to equip a military in a hurry, chances are those are two of the players we'd be going to in order to buy the tanks, planes, missiles, etc. that we'd need. Why would they bite the hand of a large potential customer?


The enemy will not come walking out of Mexico in broad daylight so all you good old Texas boys with your tacticool
sunglasses and all the latest gadgets attached to your AR-15s can sit back in your pickup trucks and pick them off.


The only thing coming out of Mexico will be the Cartels, and they're already doing it. The difference is, nobody is allowed to even think about doing anything about it now.

AND, Switzerland has stood for so long because they don't have anything anyone wants.


They've got a LOT of gold and money in their banks. They've got other natural resources and more manufacturing and agriculture than most people might think too.
9Mak  [Member]
12/7/2012 12:27:09 AM
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Originally Posted By 9Mak:
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By Metalryder:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Who feeds, clothes and houses all the elderly who will lose their US government social security and medicare checks.
Kiss your US military retirement checks and benefits goodbye.
What about those who lose their US government welfare checks.

There's not enough jobs in Texas for all those people, and certainly not enough money to support them.

You'll need a US passport or visa just to visit relatives in Oklahoma, Arkansas and New Mexico.
Those states are now in a foreign country.

What about clothing, automobile, food and other manufacturers that refuse to ship their products outside the United States.
What about all those same companies that will immediately leave Texas because they are "American" companies.

All US government services such as veteran's hospitals, The Red Cross and many others will have to relocate to within the
United States.

What about foreign invaders who'd love nothing more than to establish their military bases right in
America's midsection. Texas can't fight them off forever.

Anyone who favors secession has clearly not thought it through.


Within hours of our secession, foreign armies would flood up through the southern border, aided by insurgents that are long established in our State right now.

Welcome to the northen Mexican state of Tejas.


No, they would not.


Who would stop them?

Texans with guns may slow them down,
but they're NOT going to stop them.


What armies are y'all talking about? The Mexican Army? They aren't that competent to begin with and are too busy trying to keep control of their own country right now (and appear to be losing). The Cartels control most of Northern Mexico and there are still those pesky Zapatas in southern Mexico. And while the Mexicans might not be able to take on Texas on their own they sure aren't going to let national Armies from their southern neighbors through their territory to help either.

So I guess you are talking about the Cartels. If they were going to try to invade Texas militarily they'd have already done it. The US federal gov't has done tee-tee do them so far, so what would be different... And I'm not sure the Cartels really want that. They seem to be happy with things more or less like they are so they can continue to profit on their drug trade.

If anything, Texans who weren't shackled by Washington D.C. folks who want unobstructed illegal immigration might have more ability to do something than they do now.



Texans with guns would only slow them down...What an idiot...Read some history.
.


There's no need for personal attacks.

I have read Texas history and I found no mention of any defense against heavy bombardment of Texas cities from
enemy submarines in the Gulf of Mexico.

No mention of ICBM's from China or Russia.
No mention of MIG fighter jets at 700mph.

The enemy will not come walking out of Mexico in broad daylight so all you good old Texas boys with your tacticool
sunglasses and all the latest gadgets attached to your AR-15s can sit back in your pickup trucks and pick them off.

AND, Switzerland has stood for so long because they don't have anything anyone wants.


Both of those countries would get whooped. There is no way China or Russia would start a war with Texas, we would have an alliance and the help of the CONUS.

You think secession would make America too butthurt to ally Texas in such a situation? The alternative is having China or Russia building nuke and an army massing in Texas, right in the Pocket of the United States.

It wont happen then for the same reason it isnt happening now, and wont.

thomasplaster223  [Team Member]
12/7/2012 10:14:31 AM
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
AND, Switzerland has stood for so long because they don't have anything anyone wants.


"My friend and me got a hankerin' for Switzerland chocolate and a good smoke."
refidnasb  [Member]
12/7/2012 11:13:03 AM
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Originally Posted By refidnasb:
The yankee liberals claim the US would punish Texas with heavy embargos and tariffs making consumer goods and staples very expensive here


Unless they were to try to blockade the gulf and somehow close the Mexican border which they've been unable or unwilling to do while Texas is a part of the US, they would be hurting themselves with tariffs and embargoes as much or more than hurting us.



Washington DC would launch some punitive tariff action against Texas just to be mean. You are correct that they would hurt themselves in the end but it would make Texans really limp for awhile. It would be stupid things like the inability to UPS things in and out of the state, car tires, consumer goods, women's makeup. The US government would make it impossible to buy silly things just to try and garner support for the US government.

There have been recent articles which compared a Texas Republic to North Korea in terms of embargo, freedom and such. I laughed pretty hard reading that. There is not much downside to leaving the union from an economic point of view. Maple syrup and Kentucky Bourbon might be the only thing I'd miss. They can keep the rest.

It would be interesting to see how it would all work, giving the County Judge of each county some real executive power, the decentralized government our founding father's always wanted.

One cool thing is that other than social security, many of the state retiree pensions for occupations like teachers are based in Austin.
joemama74  [Team Member]
12/7/2012 11:52:59 AM
First off, no one would let Texas leave. They rake in way too much cash that they don't have to answer for, to let it go.

If it did go, lives would change dramatically. Certain jobs would end, but tons of new jobs would start, just to realign the economy and keep everything moving.
joemama74  [Team Member]
12/7/2012 11:55:11 AM
Originally Posted By refidnasb:
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Originally Posted By refidnasb:
The yankee liberals claim the US would punish Texas with heavy embargos and tariffs making consumer goods and staples very expensive here


Unless they were to try to blockade the gulf and somehow close the Mexican border which they've been unable or unwilling to do while Texas is a part of the US, they would be hurting themselves with tariffs and embargoes as much or more than hurting us.



Washington DC would launch some punitive tariff action against Texas just to be mean. You are correct that they would hurt themselves in the end but it would make Texans really limp for awhile. It would be stupid things like the inability to UPS things in and out of the state, car tires, consumer goods, women's makeup. The US government would make it impossible to buy silly things just to try and garner support for the US government.


You'd only have to fear a blockade. China, Mexico, Taiwan, they would want that Texas money.