Jersey AK variants law / guidline / NJSP rule change?

I was in a shop the other day and the owner was talking about some new "law" which I can only imagine (if it even exists) is a directive or guideline rather than a law; that essentially limits the shops ability to transfer an AK variant that wasn't previously available for sale in NJ... He tried to explain it and kept saying that if it wasn't "imported" into NJ prior to this new rule (which is supposedly a month or two old), they aren't aloud to transfer it. I asked how an AK variant is different than any other rifle governed by the rules of 2C:39 like an AR and he couldn't answer. He just kept saying that their contact at the NJSP contacted them and informed them of this new rule and that it seems like their trying to eliminate AK variants from availability in NJ.

The owners of the shop are good guys and don't usually blow BS so while normally my BS meter would immediately peg with a story like this, I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt and see if anyone else heard of this before I go elsewhere to get my rifle transferred. He pointed to a thumb-hole stock AK variant that had a receiver that would only accept a single stack mag and said "this stock makes me able to sell these." I've done A LOT of business with these guys over the last year and if I find out they're BSing me just to sell me one of the crap single stack only thumb-hole things or the Siaga's they have on the shelf, I'm not going to be happy. I'm hoping this is just a misunderstanding on their part and not a shifty way of trying to sell me something they have in stock rather than transferring a rifle from an out of state dealer. I've gotten no notification of any kind of 2C change, AG guideline or directive, Prosecutor directive or mandate, or new case law (which I get normally and usually almost instantly at work). The fact that he was using the word "imported" to describe a gun being shipped from within the US to within the US (if in fact NJ is still considered part of the US...) kind of led me to believe that he was probably repeating a rumor that he misunderstood. Anyone else hear anything like this at all or even remotely close to it?

Honestly, all i had to read was "I was in a shop the other day and the owner was talking" and i already knew some BS was going to be said. Sounds like to me hes making shit up because hes too scared to transfer an AK variant as alot of NJ FFL's are apparently.

Yeah, that's my other thought on it. I can't blame the guy if he doesn't feel comfortable taking a chance with his livelihood for one stupid transfer, but I'd think I'm worthy of the truth at least. I mean literally, I've made this place more money in 2011 than probably all of their other customers combined. If he just said to me that he didn't want to do the transfer because he wasn't comfortable with the laws, I would have been fine with it and he should know that knowing my personality.

Would you really put it past Paula Dow to leave us a "going away present" in the form of a new regulation regarding her (mis)understanding of "substantially identical"?

Not at all, it just doesn't make any sense the way it relayed.

i was at the local indoor range and they sold AK variant... This was about a month ago... so i think there is a mis-understanding of the law

Sounds like BS to me, but I'm no expert.
The LEO's in my town (at least the few I spoke with) think an AK is still verboten here.
I'd think it would be on the NJSP site if it was the law. They "interpret" the laws...dont they?

Yeah it's not uncommon for officers that aren't into guns to not be 100% on the details of the gun laws. Believe me when I tell you, all of the laws of this state are vague and unspecific in terms, so if you talk to a local officer that doesnt specialize in firearms or who hasn't had much experience with enforcement of chapter 39, chances are they aren't going to be very well versed in its content. Troopers are the same way. If they're not in the firearms unit and they don't care much for guns in their personal lives, they may very rairly if ever, use the assault firearm statute in their entire career. There's A LOT of assignment based laws and other details that we have to know for day to day operation and those things change sometimes daily; guidelines, directives, policies, procedures, regulations... Theres no end to the bullshit and in many cases, it's basically considdered a waste of time to try to memorize statues or law changes that don't apply to your assignment or demographic. As long as you know where to find it if you ever need it, and have the ability to understand and apply it when you find it; your GTG. Not saying its right or wrong, just giving you an idea why ai many people get different answers from local officers.
If you want to ask an officer a question about a law, find one that deals with that law on a regular basis and I'll guarantee you'll get more factual and true information than you ever cares for.

This is not the first time I heard this. When I was shopping around for my AK back in August, one of the large storefronts warned me that something like this was coming. The owner said the NJSP informed him about new guidelines coming in response to Trenton gangs using IO’s. He suggested I hurry with my purchase because sometime within the next few months he would no longer be able to sell or transfer the SGL21 I was interested in.
I also seem to recall that this was discussed in a thread on this forum a while back. I think it was “AK in NJ” or something like that.

I have a hunch that the State is trying to make the large storefronts nervous with the standard NJSP-sponsored Firearm FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Disinformation).
No worries, just buy from the small guys. If the small guys won’t transfer an AK, then you know this is real.

Trenton gangs using AK's––-that's made-up non-sense–– wonder who is spreading the rumors.

Handguns––yes.

I heard from a few FFL's, a few we all know on here and a few in PA, that the NJSP was monitoring gang activity in relevance to AK type rifles. They said alot of shops were taking down all their AK rifles, including unconverted Saiga's, off the shelf until further notice. Whether there was no change in law or anything, i guess they dont want the NJSP knocking on their door for no reason, even if the rifle is legal and the man is clean.

And i think you are crazy if you shop for AK's in NJ. You wont find anything other than over priced WASR's. Buy online, send it to FFL/gunsmith in PA, let him make it NJ legal and then transfer it. That simple.

I'm not trying to buy one in NJ, that was my point. I'm trying to transfer one from a company in another state that makes them Jersey legal already. They are willing to do whatever I want to it, as long as its legal to transfer here. My reason for even bringing it up was that I wanted to have it shipped to a local shop to be transferred to me, but it doesn't seem that my regular shop is willing to do it. I'll figure something out, I just wanted to see if anyone here had heard of this "new law."

I Transferred 2 NDS-1 Receivers through my NJ FFL not more than 4 weeks ago. It was never mentioned to me so I'm leaning towards a new 'guideline' that hasn't been officially published? The gang thing would sort of make sense as to why they suddenly decided that IO AK's were illegal. At least it makes as much sense as anything in this state. I'm wondering if its worth it to 'stock up' on AK's or something, especially if they are going to grandfather them in somehow? I'd certainly be interested if anyone has any concrete info.

Grandfather? You mean like they did with the NJAWB back in 1990?

Too bad not Grandfathered where we make them a offer they can't refuse.

Fixed it for you.

I thought the same thing. It is not really "grandfathering" though. NJSP can hold the FFLs and storefronts over the FUD barrel, but not private sales. That is, as long as the restrictions are "guidlines" and they are not "illegal" (as in change in law).

Cheyenne has been telling people ever since the IO bullshit that they were told by NJSP that ALL Ak's are illegal now

Cheyenne has been telling people ever since the IO bullshit that they were told by NJSP that ALL Ak's are illegal now
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Not to open a can of worms on this subject but I think there is a distinct possibility they may have something there.

Sorry but nothing I care to post in an open forum. Not interested in giving the anti's any more ammunition then then already have.

Illegal to sell or illegal to own? I'm confused by this entire thing now. How does an AK variant differ in any way than any other rifle that's similar to one of the listed assault rifles?
Can you IM me what your thinking on this? I'm very curious to know what the story is here.

AFAIK, CM also stopped doing multi handgun exemptions. They don't want to be bothered.

Not to open a can of worms on this subject but I think there is a distinct possibility they may have something there.

Sorry but nothing I care to post in an open forum. Not interested in giving the anti's any more ammunition then then already have.

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I know someone who asked Schuleter directly about this after a Customer related what they were told at Cheyenne, and the head of the FIU said that it was untrue. It may have been what Paula Dow WANTED, but she's out now. Right after the IO inc incident she made a couple of statements about trying to get all AK's/clones But there's been too much past practice with the Saigas, Arsenals, WASR's, and others.

Yeah, so... ahhh, just like every other law, rule, regulation or guideline in this state that has anything to do with guns.... this is about as clear as mud...

Its their store->their rules.
So I decide to spend my money to other shops
In my opinion, we have few stores/FFL's that have great service, great price so we dont need to support FFL's that they make their own rules

I am not so quick to blame the small business man (aside from Cheyenne, I don't like them for a multitude of reasons). It is the NJSP and NJSAG who I blame.
The small businessmen are simply trying to operate within the FUD (fear, uncertainty, and disinformation) that is imposed upon them by State administrators.
If I were a small businessman, employing a half dozen employees, and if selling/transferring AK's would in any way jeopardized my future for staying in business, guess what? The AK's go. Not enough money to be made in selling AK's to risk my FFL.

The NJ legislature has given the NJSP the authority to enforce "guidelines" as if they were Law. And, from the perspective of a small businessman who could lose their license to operate, those "guidelines" effectively carry the force of law.

I also blame NJSP "guidelines" for the high cost of everything that is guns in NJ. It is the NJSP's fault that it takes 90 mins to purchase a rifle from Dicks, and they have to have 3 counter clerks, and they have to record ammo purchases, etc... It all costs the retailer $$ which is passed on to us schmucks.

My advice: buy internet whenever possible and conduct transfers through small-time FFLs who do not have storefronts.

A&A appears to be accepting online orders for Arsenal SG21.
Maybe check with Paul.
www.colddeadhands.com.

Yup, ^^^ dontalo's got it.

You can't always blame the small business man on this one. Most of them are just trying to wad through the bullshit and keep their livelihood above water. It's not much different for all small business owners in this state; they stick the long, hard one up all their asses too. It's just with gun shops, they have to deal with the constant changing of interpretation and completely subjective rule changes ON TOP OF the other annual anal rapings they receive from the state.

The shop I'm talking about in the OP is a great little shop with a very friendly and personal atmosphere. Being the type of person I am, I just always question things that sound more restrictive than the laws that I'm VERY familiar with; even when I hear it from someone I would normally trust on a friendly level.
I'm still not sure I understand where it all came from or how it really applies to the legality of selling or owning an AK variant. I know how and where to buy one legally, the reason I asked the original question was because I would like to give my business to the shop I know and trust rather than going elsewhere. Seems as if they have forced my hand though.

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