Hate to bring this up again, but it's that time of the year.... Auto show CCW
Like I said, I hate to bring this up knowing there was a very in depth discussion on it last year. Despite my best Google-fu, I cannot locate that thread.
So, what's the word on concealed carry at the NAIAS Detroit? If I remember correctly, the consensus was that it was NOT a PFZ, but you could be denied access if you are found to be carrying?
I wish I could, but I just can't bear to wander Detroit without some protection.
Has anyone carried at the show this year that can report back with what they saw/experienced?
Can it SEAT 2,500 people or more? Does it get more than 50% of it's income from the sale of alcohol by the glass to be consumed on premises (I.E. is it a Bar, or Tavern?)? Is it a Casino? Is it a school? Is it a dormitory, or classroom of a College, or University? Is it a Hospital?, is it a Daycare Center? Is it a Child Placing Agency? Is it a sports arena, or stadium? Is it a court? Is it a Federal Building? Is it a post office?
If the answer to all of those is no then you can carry there. If the answer to any is yes, but it's not a court, post office, or other Federal facility then you can still carry there provided you have a CPL, and you Open Carry.
That is true whether it's the Auto Show, or anywhere else, however if it's PRIVATE Property they can still ask you to leave, and it's trespassing if you don't, but is the Auto Show on Private Property? If it's not then state preemtion kicks in (
MCL 123.1102), and they can't stop you.
Originally Posted By S_A_C:
Can it SEAT 2,500 people or more? Does it get more than 50% of it's income from the sale of alcohol by the glass to be consumed on premises (I.E. is it a Bar, or Tavern?)? Is it a Casino? Is it a school? Is it a dormitory, or classroom of a College, or University? Is it a Hospital?, is it a Daycare Center? Is it a Child Placing Agency? Is it a court? Is it a Federal Building? Is it a post office?
If the answer to all of those is no then you can carry there. If the answer to any is yes, but it's not a court, post office, or other Federal facility then you can still carry there provided you have a CPL, and you Open Carry.
That is true whether it's the Auto Show, or anywhere else, however if it's PRIVATE Property they can still ask you to leave, and it's trespassing if you don't, but is the Auto Show on Private Property? If it's not then state preemtion kicks in (
MCL 123.1102), and they can't stop you.
I think this could qualify as a PFZ because yes, Cobo can seat 2500+ people. BUT, I see what you're saying by putting SEAT in all caps.. its technically not a seating event. Cobo IS a public place though (its owned by the City of Detroit) so that part is fine. I am just not sure on teh first part.
I carried last year and came really close to shooting some valets. My advice is park your own fucking car regardless of what the wife wants.
MY understanding was because it was part of Cobo arena you could not.
I didn't even take my knife as one year they were wanding people. (They weren't when I went this year but I would rather not risk it.)
Originally Posted By slondeau:
Originally Posted By S_A_C:
Can it SEAT 2,500 people or more? Does it get more than 50% of it's income from the sale of alcohol by the glass to be consumed on premises (I.E. is it a Bar, or Tavern?)? Is it a Casino? Is it a school? Is it a dormitory, or classroom of a College, or University? Is it a Hospital?, is it a Daycare Center? Is it a Child Placing Agency? Is it a sports arena, or stadium? Is it a court? Is it a Federal Building? Is it a post office?
If the answer to all of those is no then you can carry there. If the answer to any is yes, but it's not a court, post office, or other Federal facility then you can still carry there provided you have a CPL, and you Open Carry.
That is true whether it's the Auto Show, or anywhere else, however if it's PRIVATE Property they can still ask you to leave, and it's trespassing if you don't, but is the Auto Show on Private Property? If it's not then state preemtion kicks in (
MCL 123.1102), and they can't stop you.
I think this could qualify as a PFZ because yes, Cobo can seat 2500+ people. BUT, I see what you're saying by putting SEAT in all caps.. its technically not a seating event. Cobo IS a public place though (its owned by the City of Detroit) so that part is fine. I am just not sure on teh first part.
The law specifically says seating capacity, so if there is not enough SEATING capacity for 2,500 people then the actual capacity is irrelevant, but if you want to play it safe as long as you still have your CPL you can always Open Carry, and if it is actually publicly owned they can't deny you entrance, or kick you out.
Originally Posted By madmathew:
I carried last year and came really close to shooting some valets. My advice is park your own fucking car regardless of what the wife wants.
I do remember that.... and yeah, I definitely do NOT valet!
I don't recall seeing any updates about that... did the valet's insurance company take care of all your expenses? Was the truck totaled?
Originally Posted By YZ250Rider:
Originally Posted By madmathew:
I carried last year and came really close to shooting some valets. My advice is park your own fucking car regardless of what the wife wants.
I do remember that.... and yeah, I definitely do NOT valet!
I don't recall seeing any updates about that... did the valet's insurance company take care of all your expenses? Was the truck totaled?
My insurance took care of the whole mess, I had local dealer do the repairs and it came out a lot better than I expected.
Originally Posted By madmathew:
Originally Posted By YZ250Rider:
Originally Posted By madmathew:
I carried last year and came really close to shooting some valets. My advice is park your own fucking car regardless of what the wife wants.
I do remember that.... and yeah, I definitely do NOT valet!
I don't recall seeing any updates about that... did the valet's insurance company take care of all your expenses? Was the truck totaled?
My insurance took care of the whole mess, I had local dealer do the repairs and it came out a lot better than I expected.
What happened?
Originally Posted By S_A_C:
Originally Posted By madmathew:
Originally Posted By YZ250Rider:
Originally Posted By madmathew:
I carried last year and came really close to shooting some valets. My advice is park your own fucking car regardless of what the wife wants.
I do remember that.... and yeah, I definitely do NOT valet!
I don't recall seeing any updates about that... did the valet's insurance company take care of all your expenses? Was the truck totaled?
My insurance took care of the whole mess, I had local dealer do the repairs and it came out a lot better than I expected.
What happened?
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1141065
Glad to hear it all turned out alright.
I went on the 15th was totting my 38, my kershaw clipped to my pocket. no issues not even looked at, talked to a couple leo's while walking around, had a good time!
Originally Posted By 4thidvet:
I went on the 15th was totting my 38, my kershaw clipped to my pocket. no issues not even looked at, talked to a couple leo's while walking around, had a good time!
So, how was the show? Worth going to this year? I was disappointed in the motorcycle show.
You might be careful of reading seats into the law. I think that if the building will hold more than 2500 people, seated or not, there is no carrying.
They run the gun show in Kalamazoo that way. Nobody is sitting, but the hall will hold more than the limit.
Originally Posted By dex357:
You might be careful of reading seats into the law. I think that if the building will hold more than 2500 people, seated or not, there is no carrying.
They run the gun show in Kalamazoo that way. Nobody is sitting, but the hall will hold more than the limit.
Nope the law clearly says seating.
MCL 28.425o
(f) An entertainment facility with a
seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a
seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a
seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
If it was only capacity, then carry would not be allowed at virtually any public event, even outdoors.
