AR15.Com Archives
 Smoking in car on school property???
hughjafj  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 2:11:23 PM EST
Is it illegal in this state to smoke in my own car while waiting to pick up my kids?

I got harassed by one of the anti-smoking secretaries today at my kids' school for smoking in my own car. She said it's illegal and I said the law says nothing about my car. Who is right?
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JYogi  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 2:15:45 PM EST
Its illegal, there is no smoking at all on school grounds.

You dont want to piss of the sec. she will call LE and they will respond to the school very quickly.
Her word will be enough for him to issue you a ticket.
Seeing as she told you once the officer will most likely issue you a ticket as he will be pissed that you made him waste his time.
hughjafj  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 2:27:51 PM EST
Unbelievable! So much for freedom, eh?
djgolus  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 2:45:09 PM EST

Save some $$$$$ - Quit Smoking

JYogi  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 3:03:08 PM EST
Yeah well just wait, thankfuly Michigan is going to have a bill going through to ban smoking in all public places like CA, NY and many other states did.
I lived in CA and was a smoker when they passed the ban and I didn't mind... It was nice to come home and not have my clothes smell like they were stuffed into a smoke chamber.
I am now a non smoker (over 6 years) and HATE the stench in bars, my clothes reeking when I come home and eating in a smoke filled room.

Do you smoke with your kid in the car?
If so, you might as well just give the child a pack of Marlboros...

MOST (not all and not saying you) smokers have no consideration for non smokers nor do they care about the health issues they bring upon themselves much less anyone else.


Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Unbelievable! So much for freedom, eh?
hughjafj  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 3:17:44 PM EST
If my windows are down I do.

Second hand smoke effects have been found to be overstated by alot.
hughjafj  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 3:21:03 PM EST
Read this:

www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n9_v46/ai_15249651
cybersniper  [Member]
3/14/2007 5:16:57 PM EST
I don’t really care much about what the tests and reports say. I hate the smell and don’t want it in my lungs. I dislike how some smokers (I stress some), always seem to be quick to bring up the "freedom" issue about smoking. And you know what, they're right.

They have the freedom to smoke if they want. However, it seems like some smokers forget that non-smokers should and do have the freedom not to smoke or have to be exposed to it. The "your freedom extends to the tip of your nose and my freedom to the tip of mine" should be remembered by any courteous person.

Just like how some people dont like the sound of full auto machine gun fire and others do. So we should have the freedom to buy suppressors; to help not over step others freedoms. (Had to get that in there)


JYogi  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 5:45:55 PM EST
Put up all the tests you want, its still BS and you know it...

Read what the EPA says

In January 1993 the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) declared environmental tobacco smoke (also called ETS, secondhand smoke or passive smoke) a known human carcinogen. It was classified as an environmental toxin equivalent to asbestos and other hazardous substances. The EPA's report, "Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and Other Disorders," calls ETS a serious and substantial health risk for nonsmokers, particularly children.


Or Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.com/health/secondhand-smoke/CC00023

Current article with current research

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/27/AR2006062700710.html

Your article is based on very old information which has been proven wrong.

The damage second hand smoke can cause in small children is horrid! Asthma, cardiac issues etc etc....

We can sit here and argue about this all day but try using simple common sense and you will see just how bad it is for other people... You want to kill yourself, all the more power to you but keep it in your house and have the deceny to respect childrens rights to grow into healthy adults....

I will not be posting on this thread anymore.
hajami  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 6:01:41 PM EST
The OP didn't ask how everyone else felt about him smoking, he wanted to know if it was illegal like the secretary said.

From the wording of MCL 750.473, if you are in your car, you should be OK.


THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931


750.473 Use of tobacco product on school property prohibited; violation as misdemeanor; definitions; applicability of subsection (1) to outdoor areas.

Sec. 473.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (4), a person shall not use a tobacco product on school property.

(2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of not more than $50.00.

(3) As used in this section:

(a) “School district” means a school district, local act school district, or intermediate school district, as those terms are defined in the school code of 1976, Act No. 451 of the Public Acts of 1976, being sections 380.1 to 380.1852 of the Michigan Compiled Laws; a joint high school district formed under part 3A of Act No. 451 of the Public Acts of 1976, being sections 380.171 to 380.187 of the Michigan Compiled Laws; or a consortium or cooperative arrangement consisting of any combination of these.

(b) “School property” means a building, facility, or structure and other real estate owned, leased, or otherwise controlled by a school district.

(c) “Tobacco product” means a preparation of tobacco to be inhaled, chewed, or placed in a person's mouth.

(d) “Use a tobacco product” means any of the following:

(i) The carrying by a person of a lighted cigar, cigarette, pipe, or other lighted smoking device.

(ii) The inhaling or chewing of a tobacco product.

(iii) The placing of a tobacco product within a person's mouth.

(4) Subsection (1) does not apply to that part of school property consisting of outdoor areas including, but not limited to, an open-air stadium, during either of the following time periods:

(a) Saturdays, Sundays, and other days on which there are no regularly scheduled school hours.

(b) After 6 p.m. on days during which there are regularly scheduled school hours.


History: Add. 1993, Act 140, Eff. Sept. 1, 1993
Thumbtack  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 8:25:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By cybersniper:
They have the freedom to smoke if they want. However, it seems like some smokers forget that non-smokers should and do have the freedom not to smoke or have to be exposed to it.





You're right you don't have to be exposed to anything you don't like, so walk away, quit going to a bar where people smoke. You cry about how you shouldn't have to deal with it, then you go to places where smoking is prominent? There are plenty of bars, restaurants that are smoke free. Go there and stop crying.

Take the lovely city of Grand Rapids, for example, they pass a ban on public smoking, and these people are going to tell me what is healthy for me. RIght? Then they throw thousands of gallons of RAW SEWAGE in the Grand River....

I shouldn't have to deal with people coming from another state where they had this law and that law, then trying to press their views/laws onto my state. You like it so much in CA then go back there.
motorcityman  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 8:28:34 PM EST
I'm having a cigarette as i read this thread
ssmoore  [Member]
3/14/2007 9:25:25 PM EST
This whole law looses its credability as soon as they included chew. How do you use the second hand smoke argument there? Maybe they should outlaw cigarettes, that way all the non smokers can start paying there fair share of taxes.

How come they didnt raise taxes on booze the last time the cigerette tax was raised? Because thats a larger voting base maybe? As far as im concerned they should just ban drinking booze all together I mean it has all sorts of social problems just like smoking.

Shit ban guns to while there at it, after all some drunk left his gun sitting on the coffee table and his kid blew his head off. I think they should also put people in jail if they have pre marital sex, I mean jeez look at all the teen pregnancy and std's they spread. Also have you ever thought while you were sitting there with your car running smoking that cigarette your car was spewing all kinds of pollution that was more harmful to the enviroment and people's health than a cigarette could ever cause. you should go get a horse and buggy and save us all.. Oh and hunting dont get me started there, you guys go out and kill all those little animals and eat them just cuz your a buncha blood thirsty savages this should be outlawed asap. I mean if your hungry just go down to the kroger and get some pork chops or some chicken thats been injected with all kinds of antibiotics, just think if they flooded that chicken with all that stuff you get the benefit of that medication also.

RUSSIANCATKILLA  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 9:31:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By motorcityman:
I'm having a cigarette as i read this thread



And I'm am enjoying some Kodiak


Not to Hijack but whoever posted the penal code, where did you find this? I am in a debate about the NO FIREARMS on school property and how LEO are affected. I thought I read that they are exempt but my bud disagrees. I say "call the cops if you dont like" it or "whose gonna arrest them....you?" but I could be wrong
Ti45  [Member]
3/14/2007 10:58:23 PM EST

From the wording of MCL 750.473, if you are in your car, you should be OK.


???? Isn't a school parking lot "real estate owned, leased, or otherwise controlled by a school district" ?


State of Michigan Compiled Law search websites:

Basic

Advanced
dave89iroc  [Team Member]
3/14/2007 11:20:29 PM EST
there is some leway here, since you it is legal to CCW in your car when picking up/dropping off your kids, but not otherwise on school property

so, you might be good to go in your car, if in doubt, ask an officer

cybersniper  [Member]
3/15/2007 3:44:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Thumbtack:
"You're right you don't have to be exposed to anything you don't like, so walk away, quit going to a bar where people smoke. You cry about how you shouldn't have to deal with it, then you go to places where smoking is prominent? There are plenty of bars, restaurants that are smoke free. Go there and stop crying."

You proved my point exactly. Thankyou.

When stating "you" in the above quote, I take it you mean non-smokers in general. As, I do not go to bars for the sole reason of all the smoke (let alone drink prices are out of hand). Its the places that can not be avoided that people shouldnt have to be exposed to unwanted smoke.

Also, what are you refering to about people coming in from other States to pass laws here? The Governor?
GDITheman  [Member]
3/15/2007 4:29:43 AM EST
JYogi has some good points. The bottom line is that smoking is less acceptable now than ever before. Why? Because of the health concerns. Do yourself and your family a favor and stop smoking. If you choose to continue to smoke, it's still a free country (for the most part), please be considerate of your family and friends.
ssmoore  [Member]
3/15/2007 7:24:07 AM EST
Who cares if its acceptable with others or not. I think the whole point oif what he said is that he was in his car by himself. When people bitch about that the only possible reason could be they dont like it and if the dont like it no one should do it .

example. In a certain restraunt that I go to they have a small smokin section thats far away from the non smoking section. On busy days when non smoking is full the hostess will ask whats your smoking preferece, this is usually followed by well how long is the wait in non smokin and when they say 30 mins, they ask well how long for smoking and the hostess says I can sit you know. Wanna guess what they say? Thats right Ill take it. Then they come plop there twinkie eatin fat asses right next to the smokers and start bitchin just load enough so you can hear them. This happens over and over. Its people sticking there noses in other peoples buisness plain and simple.

Smoking is already banned in public places and there work places for most part. One of the few places you can smoke outside your home is in your car or standing outside. When people start telling you that you cant do that thats where I draw the line.

Let me ask you this to when your in that bar gettin all that nasty smoke smell on you and drinking booze how do you get home? Do you go out and get in your car and drive?Putting others life in jeopordy? I can see the replys now. I call a cab or we always have a designated driver..lolololololololol.. whatever. Come on tell me you call a cab.
Ti45  [Member]
3/15/2007 9:40:35 AM EST

there is some leway here, since you it is legal to CCW in your car when picking up/dropping off your kids, but not otherwise on school property

so, you might be good to go in your car, if in doubt, ask an officer



Here is the specific exemption in the law on pistol possession on school property:

*****

28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation.

Sec. 5o.

(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, “school” and “school property” mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

.....

*****

Is there anything similar in the tobacco-ban-on-school-property law?
hughjafj  [Team Member]
3/15/2007 4:23:43 PM EST
Well, I spoke with the principal and the Sheriff's office for Macomb and both agree with me that it is legal. The deputy actually laughed at the idea and the principal is going to tell the secretary to stuff it and not do that sort of crap again. Seems there is still hope for this country. When I'm in my car I am on my property. If I were standing around outside it would be different. The law makes no mention of private vehicles, only school property.

And you non-smoking anti-freedom zealots can bite me.
Freedom comes with a price and a risk, live with it or be crushed under the heel of totalitarianism in the name of being coddled from cradle to grave like the Europeans. You people make it easier for the state to erode our liberties.
ssmoore  [Member]
3/15/2007 4:42:28 PM EST
Amen brother..

Man some of these post sound awfully familar.. Just add the word gun behind smoking and I could swear I read the same stuff over at the Brady site.

It just go's to show that rights only matter when its something that interest them. The old saying ( Why do I care if they ban guns I dont own any) comes to mind. Or this big hunting guy the other day that said the ar15 was a terrorist rifle and they should be banned cuz if he dont use them theres no need for them. That sure ruffled some feathers. Because if they dont like it or its no interest to them then they dont care. they say Piss on everybody else its all about me.

Dont get me wrong tho I agree smoking is a nasty habit and I agree if you dont smoke you shouldnt have to breath it. But it go's way to far when you start tellin ppl they cant smoke in there own frickin car or in there apartment like there trying to do in california. Or start preachin about how you shouldnt smoke. Do ppl really think smokers dont know its bad for you?
cybersniper  [Member]
3/15/2007 5:43:31 PM EST
Don’t worry guys, we non-smokers know that it’s not your fault that you are unable to control the urge to smoke. It’s an addiction. An addiction so strong it calls you. You wake up and light up, you have breakfast and light up, you drive to work and light up, so on and so on. It’s a vicious cycle. You try to say no to it, but it just pulls you back. Your inability to stop is not because you simply lack self control, it’s because you’re addicted to the nicotine. I mean, most people can stop doing something that’s physically and financially bad for them, but for addicts it’s not that simple. Addicts don’t care about courtesy and self control, its all about the fix. Addicts dont care how their actions affect others, they just need.

Be strong and you’ll get through it.
ssmoore  [Member]
3/15/2007 5:52:26 PM EST
Very funny I like that. For me this wasnt about smokin as much as people sticking there nose in other people's buisness.
cybersniper  [Member]
3/15/2007 6:52:26 PM EST
As much as I dont like smoking, that is the one part of this thread I agree with. If someone wants to smoke in their car, let them. The school secretary was out of line. Glad that got resolved with the school and the cops.
ssmoore  [Member]
3/15/2007 7:33:35 PM EST
cool, I am glad you feel that way. I was starting to think I was the only one.
JYogi  [Team Member]
3/15/2007 9:01:39 PM EST
I went to my old highs school a few years ago.
They had signs posted you couldnt even smoke in your cars.
Bus drivers even went to the mall across the street to gather and smoke when early.
I will have to make a point of going back by there in the next few days to see if the signs are still there.

You want to smoke, smell like crap etc etc for now of course you have the legal right to do it but IF (I doubt it will in MI as we have the highest rate of smokers here in MI for the nation) go for it... BUT at least respect your kids and do not do it in the car when they are there or the house....
Ti45  [Member]
3/15/2007 9:29:42 PM EST

When I'm in my car I am on my property. If I were standing around outside it would be different. The law makes no mention of private vehicles, only school property.


Oh, well then, the federal appeals court's private property concepts are all wrong. Perhaps you have special immunity in situations like the WEYERHAUSER one?
ssmoore  [Member]
3/16/2007 4:15:21 AM EST
Look if he would have came on here and said man I walked into the school today smoking a marlboro and the lady at the front desk came over and clocked him in the head with a 2x4. I would have responded good you deserved it and I hope she kicked you in the ass on the way out. But if he wants to sit in his car thats parked outside killin himself smoking, it isnt any of my buisness or the lady at the schools or anybody else for that matter.

If your so willing to give his rights to smoke away so easily, you better get ready to start giving up some of your own. Because you just opened the door for others that have problems with stuff you like to do. Now I dont claim to know you but I can guess by this site one of those things happens to be guns and not just any gun either the dreaded assualt rifle. There are millions of people out there that will argue to the ends of the earth that you have no reasonable use to have a ar15. They will use the same kind of arguments you did about his smoking. When you said california this and new york that it sent chills down my spine. If you havent noticed they also have the most restrictive gun control laws in the country. See a pattern there?

Oh well Im done with this thread. But just think about it.
GDITheman  [Member]
3/16/2007 5:31:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By hughjafj:
And you non-smoking anti-freedom zealots can bite me.
Freedom comes with a price and a risk, live with it or be crushed under the heel of totalitarianism in the name of being coddled from cradle to grave like the Europeans. You people make it easier for the state to erode our liberties.


If it's not illegal, then great. I don't care where you smoke. Just have consideration for your family. And I'd tell the secretary to wank it. Sounds like she was out of line. I'd probably say something to her. Hopefully she won't get into things she shouldn't in the future.
hughjafj  [Team Member]
3/16/2007 8:39:46 PM EST

BUT at least respect your kids and do not do it in the car when they are there or the house....

It has also been proven by "studies" that having guns in the house means your kids are more likely to die. Stop buying the liberal propaganda guys. The EPA is the same agency that thinks man is solely behind global warming.

I will smoke on and in my property as I damn well please. This is my family and my property, not yours or the governments. I grew up around smokers and noone in my family has died of cancer. How can that be if the EPA is correct?

My kids agreed with me BTW and were pissed that the lady had the nerve to talk to me like that.

What would you rather have? The old days where you were more free or this new world where everything you want to do is illegal and the busy bodies have control over your life?

Freedom is not free guys. There are risks everytime you walk outside your door, plus the risks even in your home.

I don't like the smell of buses, and it's very bad for you, but I wouldn't outlaw them. The air you breath in the city can give you cancer just as easily as cigarettes.
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