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 which caliber is best for deer in an AR platform!
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/8/2012 11:16:06 PM
so I am building my first Ar since the A2 and m4 I used in USMC. I traditionally use a 300win mag and trusty old .257 roberts for elk and later one for deer. But now I have this itch after buying a M9 (wich i carried as well) I have this need or should I say adiction to the Ar . Long story short, I have 49 acres of prime hunting on my property that I hunt on and I want to get a hunting caliber upper. I currently have a spikes lower with stag conponents. I plan on a 5.56/223 for range but was woundering what the recomendations and personal exspierience were. Longest shot out back is 200 yards max most under 70 due to the fact its an old apple orchard, but I allso might want to go elk hunting but might leave that up to my Win Mag. I have a range out back 50yd pistol and 200 yd rifle any insights? school me thanks!
I8asquirrel  [Member]
1/8/2012 11:51:14 PM
I'm running a .300Blkout with good luck.
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/8/2012 11:53:14 PM
Originally Posted By I8asquirrel:
I'm running a .300Blkout with good luck.


whats the effective range? thanks
Predator  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 1:13:01 AM
6.5 Grendel in the AR-15 platform.
.308 in the AR-10 platform.
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 1:43:27 AM
Originally Posted By Predator:
6.5 Grendel in the AR-15 platform.
.308 in the AR-10 platform.


does the 6.5 have better data over 5.56 sorry for my ignorance I know its obviously larger and is the 6.5 better than 6.8 and 300blk. Eventually a AR10 Is on my wish list thanks!
Cape_hunter  [Moderator]
1/9/2012 12:29:56 PM
How about a 308?
I would say that is the best ar cal for dear IMHO.
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 12:48:57 PM
Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
How about a 308?
I would say that is the best ar cal for dear IMHO.


Oh I agree 308 is perfect for deer only prob is Ar10 still pricey that and I'm pretty certain you can use standard Ar lower with the other calibers
Predator  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 1:14:27 PM
Originally Posted By usmcscout:
Originally Posted By Predator:
6.5 Grendel in the AR-15 platform.
.308 in the AR-10 platform.


does the 6.5 have better data over 5.56 sorry for my ignorance I know its obviously larger and is the 6.5 better than 6.8 and 300blk. Eventually a AR10 Is on my wish list thanks!


Yes it does. If you google around, you'll find it. The grendel is very impressive.

Oh and the new Colt SP901 is just about out and it will be in the $2k range, which is a great price for a AR platform .308 and you can run standard AR15 uppers on it too.
I8asquirrel  [Member]
1/9/2012 2:42:24 PM
.300blackout , and 5.56 both have done well for me on deer. I feel the proper bullet and shot placement are more importatnt than calliber!
9mmprn  [Member]
1/9/2012 3:18:53 PM
.223
Genin  [Member]
1/9/2012 3:44:17 PM
For the short action type AR15 rifles, I think the 6.5 Grendel is the best cartridge.

For the longer action type AR10 platform rifles, I think either the 260 Remington, or the 6.5 Creedmoor work best. Of the two, I like the 260 Remington best. The 260 has better brass availability from more manufacturers, better quality brass (Lapua is about the best brass on the planet), and if you need to form brass, necking down 7mm-08 cases is a really simple operation.

The 260 is a knock off of the 308 case, and you can make 260 brass out of 308 brass. The 6.5 Creedmoor brass is only available from Hornady, and making Credmoor brass is much, much more complicated than making 260 brass. As for accuracy and velocity, the 260 and the 6.5 Creedmoor are twins. The 6.5x47 is 99% of the 260 and Creedmoor, but has to operate at higher pressures to attain similar velocities, so I prefer the lower pressure cartridges.

And now that Lapua is making 260 Remington brass, you have the capability of buying brass that is stronger, and lasts longer than any other brass (given equal amounts of care). There are a number of very good reasons why bench rest shooters have a strong preference for Lapua cases. Quality, consistency, durability, ability to keep working even after being used in hot loads, and above all accuracy that is the result of all the previously mentioned qualities.

Sure, the 7.62x51 is the military cartridge, but if you want the best accuracy, military ammo isn't the way to go. If you want really outstanding long distance performance, the 6.5mm cartridges outperform the 7.62x51 at longer distances.

Bend  [Member]
1/9/2012 4:45:20 PM
For deer out to 200 yards, 223/5.56 with any of the following will work (see the reviews):

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/665774/nosler-partition-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-60-grain-spitzer-box-of-50

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/590017/barnes-triple-shock-x-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-62-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail-lead-free-box-of-50

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/634793/barnes-tipped-triple-shock-x-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-55-grain-spitzer-boat-tail-box-of-50

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/292014/barnes-tipped-triple-shock-x-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-62-grain-spitzer-boat-tail-box-of-50
EKinOR  [Member]
1/9/2012 7:16:15 PM
6.8SPC would world well, too. There are quite a few commercial loads available.
nohair  [Member]
1/9/2012 9:35:42 PM
Shot placement, with a 9mm setup, or just the first part.
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 10:22:32 PM
I' am a firm believer in shot placement! kinda humors me that so many argue caliber exspecaly in handgun calibers like 9vs45 bs. Now by no means am i meaning to be rude so don't take it wrong. I don't know a whole lot about the different calibers and the differences as i'm kinda new on the scene since I got out of usmc but I did and still have my handy 257 roberts not sure how far off from 260 it is but I assume its close. Basically, I'm building my first post AR in 556/223 mainly to use to hunt on my property. But I also want to do a build a true hunting cal AR something I can legit take a deer/elk at longer ranges and of course the more common and least costly ammo is incentive until I learn to reload. I had a USMC Marksmanship instructor tell me once just kinda stuck with me "amatuers argue caliber, professionals hone shot placement" thanks for all the incite !!!!!
I8asquirrel  [Member]
1/9/2012 11:28:11 PM
If I was gonna scratch build an Ar platform for deer and elk an Ar 10 in 338 fedral would be a rocking way to go.
It's one hell of a cartridge ,,,My buddy also has an upper from Olympic that is 2506 super short mag that fits a standard Ar lower....just thoughts
9mmprn  [Member]
1/9/2012 11:38:54 PM
Anything built on an AR10 platform will suck ass in the woods. AR15 platform is the way to go.
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 11:54:26 PM
Originally Posted By 9mmprn:
Anything built on an AR10 platform will suck ass in the woods. AR15 platform is the way to go.


Are you basing that off persinal exsperience ? just curious I am kinda aiming for building it once without regrets! of course this build would be seperate from my 5.56 build
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 11:56:27 PM
Originally Posted By I8asquirrel:
If I was gonna scratch build an Ar platform for deer and elk an Ar 10 in 338 fedral would be a rocking way to go.
It's one hell of a cartridge ,,,My buddy also has an upper from Olympic that is 2506 super short mag that fits a standard Ar lower....just thoughts


super short? is that a common round if so is it pricey or a handload only kind of setup. I had a 300wsm and was damn spendy at one time 50$ box for cheap stuff really sucked along with lack of mag capacity
Genin  [Member]
1/10/2012 12:09:51 AM
Scout,
I completely agree with the idea that shot placement trumps caliber any day. It doesn't matter if someone has a super-duper magnum if they can't hit anything. A weak hit beats the hell out of a powerful miss any day....a moderate fast hit beats 'em both. I got the same thing about making hits from USMC, and will always value hits over power. A sucking chest wound takes the fight out of damned near anyone, regardless of caliber.

For hunting, I think that you would get tired of carrying around the AR10 platform, although there are quite a few weight saving ideas for them. However if you are used to carrying around a SAW, then the AR10 won't seem so bad. If you have someone build you an AR10 using a 20 inch lightweight fluted barrel, it won't be too horrible for hunting.

If you are in the Portland metro area, I think I can connect you with some people that can familiarize you with the Grendel and it's benefits for hunting and other uses. Where the 5.56 will work for deer, that round goes transonic around 600 yards, and lacks much real deer anchoring power much past 400 meters. The Grendel will carry much further, and usually won't go transonic until around 1200 meters with the right load. I would guess that the Grendel would carry enough power for deer sized game out to 600-800 meters, but that is much further than most responsible hunters would want to shoot. But again, a really good hit through both lungs with either caliber will do the job.

The 257 Roberts is a fabulous cartridge, I just don't think anyone is using it in the Ar10 sized platform. The 260 Remington is between the 257 Roberts and the 7.62x51 in initial power. However, the 6.5mm bullets have such a high ballistic coefficient that the 6.5mm bullets usually begin to surpass the 7.62x51 bullets in power when they get to around 400 meters....from there on out, the 6.5mm retains more energy than the 7.62x51.

For the above comparison I used the following:
7.62x51: 150 grain bullet at 2700 fps
260 Remington 142 grain bullet at 2750 fps
9mmprn  [Member]
1/10/2012 12:24:59 AM
Originally Posted By usmcscout:
Originally Posted By 9mmprn:
Anything built on an AR10 platform will suck ass in the woods. AR15 platform is the way to go.


Are you basing that off persinal exsperience ? just curious I am kinda aiming for building it once without regrets! of course this build would be seperate from my 5.56 build


Yes. I built this and took it hunting a time or two. Maybe I'm a puss but I hated it. It was heavy before I put the glass on it.


usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 12:47:12 AM
Originally Posted By 9mmprn:
Originally Posted By usmcscout:
Originally Posted By 9mmprn:
Anything built on an AR10 platform will suck ass in the woods. AR15 platform is the way to go.


Are you basing that off persinal exsperience ? just curious I am kinda aiming for building it once without regrets! of course this build would be seperate from my 5.56 build


Yes. I built this and took it hunting a time or two. Maybe I'm a puss but I hated it. It was heavy before I put the glass on it.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/docrn/AR-10SASSClone002.jpg


Good point I didn't really think bought weight even though that's the reason I sold my 300wsm as I got bad back and knee. Ill most likley stay with ar15 for the weight
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 12:53:24 AM
Originally Posted By Genin:
Scout,
I completely agree with the idea that shot placement trumps caliber any day. It doesn't matter if someone has a super-duper magnum if they can't hit anything. A weak hit beats the hell out of a powerful miss any day....a moderate fast hit beats 'em both. I got the same thing about making hits from USMC, and will always value hits over power. A sucking chest wound takes the fight out of damned near anyone, regardless of caliber.

For hunting, I think that you would get tired of carrying around the AR10 platform, although there are quite a few weight saving ideas for them. However if you are used to carrying around a SAW, then the AR10 won't seem so bad. If you have someone build you an AR10 using a 20 inch lightweight fluted barrel, it won't be too horrible for hunting.

If you are in the Portland metro area, I think I can connect you with some people that can familiarize you with the Grendel and it's benefits for hunting and other uses. Where the 5.56 will work for deer, that round goes transonic around 600 yards, and lacks much real deer anchoring power much past 400 meters. The Grendel will carry much further, and usually won't go transonic until around 1200 meters with the right load. I would guess that the Grendel would carry enough power for deer sized game out to 600-800 meters, but that is much further than most responsible hunters would want to shoot. But again, a really good hit through both lungs with either caliber will do the job.


The 257 Roberts is a fabulous cartridge, I just don't think anyone is using it in the Ar10 sized platform. The 260 Remington is between the 257 Roberts and the 7.62x51 in initial power. However, the 6.5mm bullets have such a high ballistic coefficient that the 6.5mm bullets usually begin to surpass the 7.62x51 bullets in power when they get to around 400 meters....from there on out, the 6.5mm retains more energy than the 7.62x51.

For the above comparison I used the following:
7.62x51: 150 grain bullet at 2700 fps
260 Remington 142 grain bullet at 2750 fps

Thanks bro I apriciate that!
I8asquirrel  [Member]
1/10/2012 12:55:20 AM
I have killed several deer with my 5.56 using hornady 60gr Vmax bullet over 26.5 gr of BLC2 powder ,,,put it in the boiler and none of the have traveled twenty paces. In my 300 blackout I use a 110 g Vmax its a light bullet with explosive expansion a heart lung was a DRT kill in both cases.
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 1:03:42 AM
Originally Posted By I8asquirrel:
I have killed several deer with my 5.56 using hornady 60gr Vmax bullet over 26.5 gr of BLC2 powder ,,,put it in the boiler and none of the have traveled twenty paces. In my 300 blackout I use a 110 g Vmax its a light bullet with explosive expansion a heart lung was a DRT kill in both cases.


Do u supress the blk out? I've been reading on here its pointless not to that caliber? Are sup even legal to hunt with in Oregon. Allso is it beyond a guy a guy just getting back into the Ar world to do a blackout build somewhere I read Ann the 5.56 parts are interchangeable? Thanks bro I really thankful for all this invaluable knowledge
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 1:05:54 AM
Originally Posted By I8asquirrel:
I have killed several deer with my 5.56 using hornady 60gr Vmax bullet over 26.5 gr of BLC2 powder ,,,put it in the boiler and none of the have traveled twenty paces. In my 300 blackout I use a 110 g Vmax its a light bullet with explosive expansion a heart lung was a DRT kill in both cases.


Someone told me the 95gr was best for hunting but seems like the 60 would be better from your description
Genin  [Member]
1/10/2012 3:59:17 PM
I believe that the 300 blackout is simply a 5.56x45 cartridge necked up to accept 30 caliber bullets. In many shooting magazines they show photos of the "Whisper" line of cartridges. I think the 30 cal whisper is pretty much the same as the 300 blackout. If I am correct with the preceding comments, the 5.56x45 bolt, and magazines should work just fine for the 300 blackout. You might need to tweek the magazine lips a bit to get the bullet's nose to point upward enough, but tip of the 30 cal bullet should (in theory) be the same place as the tip of the 5.56 cal bullet, so they might feed without modification.

I would want to find out if anyone is making brass for any cartridge I was thinking of using. Brass availability is one of the wonderful things about using a really common cartridge like the 5.566x45 or 7.62x51. Cartridges like the 300 blackout and Grendel don't have quite as much brass availability. The 6.8 SPC currently has more brass availability than the 300 blackout, all Grendel brass so far is made by Lapua or Hornady.

Inside of 300 yards, I don't think there is a significant difference in on target energy between the 6.8 SPC or the Grendel. To really get the full benefit of the Grendel's ballistic coefficient, you have to get the ranges to go out quite a bit more. The further out the target, the more significant the benefit of the Grendel's BC becomes over the 6.8 SPC. But, if you are thinking primarily of hunting, 99.5% of your shooting "should" be within 350 yards. At that distance, I don't think there is very much difference between the SPC and the Grendel.

Although I'm a true Grendel fan, I like to think that I'm reasonable enough to admit that the two cartridges are pretty much twins inside of 350 yards. Sure, the Grendel has a better BC a slight advantage on penetration...but I don't think there is a deer sized animal on this continent that would walk off because you "only" shot it with a 6.8 SPC at 325 yards. Especially if you placed the bullet correctly!

So, if I were you, and were looking into buying a rifle, I would find out where I could buy a quality pre-manufactured rifle that has all the features I want at the best price. Usually, you will find that by purchasing a pre-built rifle, you will save money, and there is value in having a factory warranty if anything goes wrong.

Sometimes, building your own rifle will save money, but not too often. Plus, when you take into account the tools you have to buy, additional shipping and handling you have to pay for on all the components (unless you make one huge purchase), most manufacturers who buy in bulk can beat your price, so they can build a rifle more cheaply than you can.
I8asquirrel  [Member]
1/10/2012 4:33:21 PM
Scout.
Yes you can hunt with supressor in Oregon ( make sense becuase I dont wear ear plugs hunting) Using a Blackout/ whisper with out a can is no different from shooting an 762x39 with out a supressor. but with a can I have a bolt gun load that sounds like My Beeman air rifle ( insert Hollywood Quite)

I know fellows that use about anything you can think of to kill deer.....for the ranges your talking 300 yds and under anything pretty much that you can hit your mark will get the job done.
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 7:24:59 PM
Originally Posted By Genin:
I believe that the 300 blackout is simply a 5.56x45 cartridge necked up to accept 30 caliber bullets. In many shooting magazines they show photos of the "Whisper" line of cartridges. I think the 30 cal whisper is pretty much the same as the 300 blackout. If I am correct with the preceding comments, the 5.56x45 bolt, and magazines should work just fine for the 300 blackout. You might need to tweek the magazine lips a bit to get the bullet's nose to point upward enough, but tip of the 30 cal bullet should (in theory) be the same place as the tip of the 5.56 cal bullet, so they might feed without modification.

I would want to find out if anyone is making brass for any cartridge I was thinking of using. Brass availability is one of the wonderful things about using a really common cartridge like the 5.566x45 or 7.62x51. Cartridges like the 300 blackout and Grendel don't have quite as much brass availability. The 6.8 SPC currently has more brass availability than the 300 blackout, all Grendel brass so far is made by Lapua or Hornady.

Inside of 300 yards, I don't think there is a significant difference in on target energy between the 6.8 SPC or the Grendel. To really get the full benefit of the Grendel's ballistic coefficient, you have to get the ranges to go out quite a bit more. The further out the target, the more significant the benefit of the Grendel's BC becomes over the 6.8 SPC. But, if you are thinking primarily of hunting, 99.5% of your shooting "should" be within 350 yards. At that distance, I don't think there is very much difference between the SPC and the Grendel.

Although I'm a true Grendel fan, I like to think that I'm reasonable enough to admit that the two cartridges are pretty much twins inside of 350 yards. Sure, the Grendel has a better BC a slight advantage on penetration...but I don't think there is a deer sized animal on this continent that would walk off because you "only" shot it with a 6.8 SPC at 325 yards. Especially if you placed the bullet correctly!

So, if I were you, and were looking into buying a rifle, I would find out where I could buy a quality pre-manufactured rifle that has all the features I want at the best price. Usually, you will find that by purchasing a pre-built rifle, you will save money, and there is value in having a factory warranty if anything goes wrong.

Sometimes, building your own rifle will save money, but not too often. Plus, when you take into account the tools you have to buy, additional shipping and handling you have to pay for on all the components (unless you make one huge purchase), most manufacturers who buy in bulk can beat your price, so they can build a rifle more cheaply than you can.


thanks for the helpful incite! Persinally the longest shot I have taken a deer was 275 yds. I just dont think its responsible hunting taking those long shots in part due to fact my phisical limitations. I have had allot of range and real world exspierience at 1000yds. so knowing what I know now I still am undecided the 6.8 would sufice for deer. the grendal apeals to be because if I ever wanted to get back into shooting longer ranges. and the 300 blk out Intrests me with the larger grain bullet wich shines supressed plus would it be ok for elk or is that pushing it! still not sure wich one I want decisions decisions decisions
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 7:37:39 PM
Originally Posted By I8asquirrel:
Scout.
Yes you can hunt with supressor in Oregon ( make sense becuase I dont wear ear plugs hunting) Using a Blackout/ whisper with out a can is no different from shooting an 762x39 with out a supressor. but with a can I have a bolt gun load that sounds like My Beeman air rifle ( insert Hollywood Quite)

I know fellows that use about anything you can think of to kill deer.....for the ranges your talking 300 yds and under anything pretty much that you can hit your mark will get the job done.


good! There is allot of bs that goes around about suppressed guns. so it really only a benefits with light loads my primary point is so I can shoot on my rifle range I built out back40 to keep my bitter old neighbors from bitching so if there isn't a huge benefit or if you have to use high end rounds to get supressed effect I'M not sure if it really serves my purpose as I shoot allot so cost is important however I dont shoot steel cased ammo in any of my rifles. guess it may be time to start reloading I may be getting ahead of myself I need to get a upper to finish my build I currently have a spikes lower with stag lpk. If anyone knows where I can get a reasonable upper in 5.56? then I'll get one mentioned above. thanks everyone that chimed in I really appriciate all the insite
forgotmylogin  [Member]
1/11/2012 11:23:00 AM
Originally Posted By usmcscout:
Originally Posted By I8asquirrel:
I have killed several deer with my 5.56 using hornady 60gr Vmax bullet over 26.5 gr of BLC2 powder ,,,put it in the boiler and none of the have traveled twenty paces. In my 300 blackout I use a 110 g Vmax its a light bullet with explosive expansion a heart lung was a DRT kill in both cases.


Do u supress the blk out? I've been reading on here its pointless not to that caliber? Are sup even legal to hunt with in Oregon. Allso is it beyond a guy a guy just getting back into the Ar world to do a blackout build somewhere I read Ann the 5.56 parts are interchangeable? Thanks bro I really thankful for all this invaluable knowledge


Suppressors legal to hunt with in OR. It's not that 300blk is pointless unsupressed, but that it was designed for that purpose and almost a specialty round for that.
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/11/2012 2:15:06 PM
Originally Posted By forgotmylogin:
Originally Posted By usmcscout:
Originally Posted By I8asquirrel:
I have killed several deer with my 5.56 using hornady 60gr Vmax bullet over 26.5 gr of BLC2 powder ,,,put it in the boiler and none of the have traveled twenty paces. In my 300 blackout I use a 110 g Vmax its a light bullet with explosive expansion a heart lung was a DRT kill in both cases.


Do u supress the blk out? I've been reading on here its pointless not to that caliber? Are sup even legal to hunt with in Oregon. Allso is it beyond a guy a guy just getting back into the Ar world to do a blackout build somewhere I read Ann the 5.56 parts are interchangeable? Thanks bro I really thankful for all this invaluable knowledge


Suppressors legal to hunt with in OR. It's not that 300blk is pointless unsupressed, but that it was designed for that purpose and almost a specialty round for that.


I asume the blk out will sufice for elk being the 30 cal bullet corect me if i'm wrong. damn I can't make up my mind the grendal sure seems like a winner but the 300 seems a better fit supressed and don't see myself shooting at long range and I guess if i got back on the sniper ranges it prob wouldent be in an AR but rather a rem 700 like the m40 a3 I shot anyway bolt gun
Genin  [Member]
1/11/2012 3:26:08 PM
Keep in mind that any of the cartridges you are considering can be suppressed. The 300 blackout may be the best one to suppress, but with the low velocities required to get truly fabulous performance, the range would be severely limited. The trajectory of a 30 caliber, heavy bullet (over 150 grains) would be like a rainbow....or a low velocity 45-70, just without the same energy at the venerable 45-70.

The best performance for suppressed rounds is attained by keeping velocity around the sound barrier (around 1000-1100 fps). Any bullet that exceeds the speed of sound will have a supersonic crack, regardless of how effective the suppressor is. The benefit of suppressing rounds that are supersonic, is that it is much more difficult to tell where the shot came from.
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/11/2012 8:51:28 PM
Originally Posted By Genin:
Keep in mind that any of the cartridges you are considering can be suppressed. The 300 blackout may be the best one to suppress, but with the low velocities required to get truly fabulous performance, the range would be severely limited. The trajectory of a 30 caliber, heavy bullet (over 150 grains) would be like a rainbow....or a low velocity 45-70, just without the same energy at the venerable 45-70.

The best performance for suppressed rounds is attained by keeping velocity around the sound barrier (around 1000-1100 fps). Any bullet that exceeds the speed of sound will have a supersonic crack, regardless of how effective the suppressor is. The benefit of suppressing rounds that are supersonic, is that it is much more difficult to tell where the shot came from.


thanks, I'll keep that info in mind when deciding which way to go. Is there another option in AR15 platform capable of deer/elk within 300 yards or so. Theres noone that appriciates shot placment better than me. that being said within the AR15 setup what calibers have this capability. I'd do with AR10 but due to extra weight, my bad back and the seeminly exsesive cost of that platform what would be a good option? If nessesary I could build a AR10 TYPE but not anytime soon
Genin  [Member]
1/13/2012 4:26:31 PM
There are a couple of 50 caliber options for the Ar15 platform. Check out Alexander Arms. I have had outstanding customer service from them every time I needed it. They are pretty much the ones that worked really hard to get the Grendel cartridge going. Some people don't like the way Alexander did business, but keep in mind it is just that....business. Many companies did knock offs of the Grendel.
264 LBC
6.5 CSS
6.5 Grendel

All three have only very minor differences. I think the biggest differences are the throat geometry, and a .005 difference in neck diameter, but you can shoot all three in any rifle chambered for any of the others.

There are some really powerful 50 caliber rounds that have about the same energy as the 45-70, but they have a rainbow like trajectory. However, it will most certainly be powerful medicine for elk inside of 300 yards.

I think Olympic arms chambered some of the Super Short magnum cartridges in AR15 platforms, but I don't know much about whether they still do or not. One of the larger super short magnums should be OK for elk. But, keep in mind that if you do get one of those, ammo would be horribly expensive if you buy off the shelf, and if you load your own, the reloading would be quite tricky to find a load that is accurate, powerful enough, and doesn't kill your brass or rifle.

If it were me, I would stick with a cartridge that is pretty standard. You will never find a rifle that will do everything, and as a result, will have to compromise.

If it were only for elk and you wanted the best thing for inside of 300 yards, I would go with the 50 cal Alexander Arms rifle. If I wanted a rifle that would do the most things (elk, deer, home defense, long range shooting), I would go with the Grendel.
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/13/2012 9:35:39 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By Genin:
There are a couple of 50 caliber options for the Ar15 platform. Check out Alexander Arms. I have had outstanding customer service from them every time I needed it. They are pretty much the ones that worked really hard to get the Grendel cartridge going. Some people don't like the way Alexander did business, but keep in mind it is just that....business. Many companies did knock offs of the Grendel.
264 LBC
6.5 CSS
6.5 Grendel

All three have only very minor differences. I think the biggest differences are the throat geometry, and a .005 difference in neck diameter, but you can shoot all three in any rifle chambered for any of the others.

There are some really powerful 50 caliber rounds that have about the same energy as the 45-70, but they have a rainbow like trajectory. However, it will most certainly be powerful medicine for elk inside of 300 yards.

I think Olympic arms chambered some of the Super Short magnum cartridges in AR15 platforms, but I don't know much about whether they still do or not. One of the larger super short magnums should be OK for elk. But, keep in mind that if you do get one of those, ammo would be horribly expensive if you buy off the shelf, and if you load your own, the reloading would be quite tricky to find a load that is accurate, powerful enough, and doesn't kill your brass or rifle.

If it were me, I would stick with a cartridge that is pretty standard. You will never find a rifle that will do everything, and as a result, will have to compromise.

If it were only for elk and you wanted the best thing for inside of 300 yards, I would go with the 50 cal Alexander Arms rifle. If I wanted a rifle that would do the most things (elk, deer, home defense, long range shooting), I would go with the Grendel.[/quo
Thanks for the incite the only question I have is 50 cal are they a 50? or mistype I apologize I'm not all that great with that kinda thing! don't mean to sound dumb anyway I'm not into short mags I had a 300wsm benelli r1 confortech nice gun defenetly not a comp quality and had ARGO gas system but it now sits in back of my safe as you stated really exspensive to get anykind of trigger time kinda odd in a AR platform thanks for all the input. I;m really interested in grendal but shelf ammo is slim really slim cabelas only had 2 at 25 bucks a box I'LL have to roll my own really small cases on the grendal and spc
benjio  [Member]
1/15/2012 12:06:09 PM
I didn't read everything, so I'm just gonna lob this out there... I have hunted with a suppressed 300blk bolt rifle, but not shot any large game with it. I wouldn't use it in open country though because I'm only loading 220gr subsonics and they succumb to gravity like about like a dairy princess who locked herself inside the Tillamook Creamery hut...

I can't believe Predator is pimping the Grendel???

That's what I took hunting for deer this last season and will be using for the foreseeable future as well. The ballistics (on paper) appear slightly better than a .308 out to a further distance. And you get to enjoy it in an AR15 sized package. I've been successfully shooting mine with standard 556 Pmags. I load them all at home, so I haven't bought any factory ammo at all. I haven't shot any big game, but have drilled a few nutria with devastating effect. There were more guts laying on the ground next to the poor little guy than were left in him... I'm sold on the Grendel for an all-around hunting cartridge. Bill Alexander recently let the patent go on the name, so now hopefully more folks will be making bbls, parts, ammo, and whatnot, bringing the price of components down.

Mine shoots better than any rifle I've got.

Alexander Arms side-charger upper
Lower is a whatever with whatever parts
RRA NM 2-stage trigger
Bobro QD optic mount
Vortex Viper PST FFP 4-16x50
JP/Vtac freefloat tube
Sabre Defence 18" chrome-lined bbl
Griffin Armament Scout 762 can
BCM Gunfighter c/h
Magpul fanboi stock
Atlas bipod (pictured is a Harris before the Atlas arrived)
Pmags (pictured is an actual AA Grendel mag, before I figured out that Pmags worked fine...)

usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/15/2012 12:20:53 PM
Originally Posted By benjio:
I didn't read everything, so I'm just gonna lob this out there... I have hunted with a suppressed 300blk bolt rifle, but not shot any large game with it. I wouldn't use it in open country though because I'm only loading 220gr subsonics and they succumb to gravity like about like a dairy princess who locked herself inside the Tillamook Creamery hut...

I can't believe Predator is pimping the Grendel???

That's what I took hunting for deer this last season and will be using for the foreseeable future as well. The ballistics (on paper) appear slightly better than a .308 out to a further distance. And you get to enjoy it in an AR15 sized package. I've been successfully shooting mine with standard 556 Pmags. I load them all at home, so I haven't bought any factory ammo at all. I haven't shot any big game, but have drilled a few nutria with devastating effect. There were more guts laying on the ground next to the poor little guy than were left in him... I'm sold on the Grendel for an all-around hunting cartridge. Bill Alexander recently let the patent go on the name, so now hopefully more folks will be making bbls, parts, ammo, and whatnot, bringing the price of components down.

Mine shoots better than any rifle I've got.

Alexander Arms side-charger upper
Lower is a whatever with whatever parts
RRA NM 2-stage trigger
Bobro QD optic mount
Vortex Viper PST FFP 4-16x50
JP/Vtac freefloat tube
Sabre Defence 18" chrome-lined bbl
Griffin Armament Scout 762 can
BCM Gunfighter c/h
Magpul fanboi stock
Atlas bipod (pictured is a Harris before the Atlas arrived)
Pmags (pictured is an actual AA Grendel mag, before I figured out that Pmags worked fine...)

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i13/benjiotto/G%20n%20A/photo-81-6.jpg




Nice rifle! I'm sold on the grendel
I8asquirrel  [Member]
1/15/2012 12:22:44 PM
Benji thats a sweet rig!
benjio  [Member]
1/15/2012 6:43:22 PM
Originally Posted By I8asquirrel:
Benji thats a sweet rig!


Thanks. That's the first one I built from the ground up with just parts. She shoots real nice. I just need to devise a better brass deflector/catcher than the baggie thing I've got. That brass is way too spendy to be leaving on the ground...
Predator  [Team Member]
1/15/2012 9:47:51 PM
Hey man. For hunting, I'd take a grendel over any other round that I can get in a the AR-15 platform. I don't hunt with the AR-15 platform though and I don't personally own a grendel and never will...
Mongoose16  [Member]
1/17/2012 10:02:44 PM
Originally Posted By Predator:
Originally Posted By usmcscout:
Originally Posted By Predator:
6.5 Grendel in the AR-15 platform.
.308 in the AR-10 platform.


does the 6.5 have better data over 5.56 sorry for my ignorance I know its obviously larger and is the 6.5 better than 6.8 and 300blk. Eventually a AR10 Is on my wish list thanks!


Yes it does. If you google around, you'll find it. The grendel is very impressive.

Oh and the new Colt SP901 is just about out and it will be in the $2k range, which is a great price for a AR platform .308 and you can run standard AR15 uppers on it too.










Genin  [Member]
1/18/2012 1:42:26 PM
USMC Scout
In an earlier posting, you asked if the 50 cal was really a 50 cal rifle. Yes, but the cartridge is not based on the 50 BMG round. The Alexander Arms 50 is a short fat straight walled (pretty much) case with a rebated rim. It will fit down inside modified AR15 type magazines because magazines and rounds have to fit into an AR15 mag well. It has nothing like the 50 BMG round's power, but it is plenty of punch, and very similar to the venerable 45-70. There are other 50 cal rounds for he AR15 platform rifles, but the Alexander Arms one is the only rifle I'm familiar with.

You are correct about factory ammo for the Grendel being hard to find. That is why I have only shot around 5 boxes of it in the 2-4 years I have been using the Grendel. Most of us Grendel owners "roll our own". AA is making a special run of lower priced ammo, but I don't know if it has been sold out or not yet....I suspect it is in very short supply if it isn't sold out.

The good news about Grendel ammo is that if you use Lapua cases and treat them well, they last a very long time. I quit counting how many reloads my cases had when I passed 6 or 7 loadings. And that was 2-4 loadings ago. Now, I have about 2-4 cases out of 100 that finally go bad. Annealing the necks has helped my cases out a great deal, and they are now due for another annealing.

9mmprn  [Member]
1/18/2012 3:38:44 PM
There used to be Cloud Mountain Armory in Newberg that had a nifty wildcat round. I don't think they are in business anymore. Anyone remember those folks.
usmcscout  [Team Member]
1/18/2012 11:04:36 PM
Originally Posted By Genin:
USMC Scout
In an earlier posting, you asked if the 50 cal was really a 50 cal rifle. Yes, but the cartridge is not based on the 50 BMG round. The Alexander Arms 50 is a short fat straight walled (pretty much) case with a rebated rim. It will fit down inside modified AR15 type magazines because magazines and rounds have to fit into an AR15 mag well. It has nothing like the 50 BMG round's power, but it is plenty of punch, and very similar to the venerable 45-70. There are other 50 cal rounds for he AR15 platform rifles, but the Alexander Arms one is the only rifle I'm familiar with.

You are correct about factory ammo for the Grendel being hard to find. That is why I have only shot around 5 boxes of it in the 2-4 years I have been using the Grendel. Most of us Grendel owners "roll our own". AA is making a special run of lower priced ammo, but I don't know if it has been sold out or not yet....I suspect it is in very short supply if it isn't sold out.

The good news about Grendel ammo is that if you use Lapua cases and treat them well, they last a very long time. I quit counting how many reloads my cases had when I passed 6 or 7 loadings. And that was 2-4 loadings ago. Now, I have about 2-4 cases out of 100 that finally go bad. Annealing the necks has helped my cases out a great deal, and they are now due for another annealing.



thanks for the clarification! that makes sense. I'm hoping to get a reloading kit here real soon for my birthday from my wife and the variant will most likley not be till summer. And the fact that I have a small range 215 yards and hopefully 400 by summer but it should be allot easier doing the work ups!