Archived Posts » 59,699,509
Private sale of complete lower
4/10/2012 3:40:17 PM
Can I buy a complete lower ,not rifle only the lower, from a private seller (one of my buddies) in NC? Or does this transaction have to be done through an FFL? Any paperwork involved in a private sale or just give him cash and I get the lower?
Thanks
Thanks
4/10/2012 6:03:35 PM
I tried a google search and turned up nothing. Can anyone help me out? We are both NC residents if this makes any difference.
4/10/2012 8:39:48 PM
If you buy from a dealer in NC it would be classified as other. They will require a permit to purchase or you must have a concealed carry. The reason is the lower can be built into a pistol.
You would need to make sure legally he has a pistol permit and you take that for your records or a copy of his concealed carry.
You would need to make sure legally he has a pistol permit and you take that for your records or a copy of his concealed carry.
4/10/2012 9:45:09 PM
Yes, you can buy from an individual without going through a dealer.
If you are the buyer you may be required to provide him information from a CC or purchase permit. (The seller is required to optain a copy of a CC or purchase permit if selling a handgun. No requirement for a long gun. Not sure about an "other")
If you are the buyer you may be required to provide him information from a CC or purchase permit. (The seller is required to optain a copy of a CC or purchase permit if selling a handgun. No requirement for a long gun. Not sure about an "other")
4/10/2012 9:45:26 PM
Originally Posted By fishorwife:
If you buy from a dealer in NC it would be classified as other. They will require a permit to purchase or you must have a concealed carry. The reason is the lower can be built into a pistol.
You would need to make sure legally he has a pistol permit and you take that for your records or a copy of his concealed carry.
If you buy from a dealer in NC it would be classified as other. They will require a permit to purchase or you must have a concealed carry. The reason is the lower can be built into a pistol.
You would need to make sure legally he has a pistol permit and you take that for your records or a copy of his concealed carry.
From what I've read the only qualification to buy a lower stripped or complete is you have to be 21, becuase like you said it can be made into a pistol. I could be wrong. My question is about the private sale of a complete lower (buttstock, buffer tube, trigger, basically ready to go). Has anyone purchased or sold a complete upper in a private sale? Do I need a pistol permit or any other paperwork to buy it from my buddy or do I hand him the cash and he gives me the lower?
I've tried google searching NC gun laws to find out info about this but haven't been able to find any information. Is there any law in NC where a complete lower must be transfered through a FFL or can we just exchange cash for the lower?
Can anyone in NC shed some light on this?
4/11/2012 12:04:27 PM
Anyone?
4/11/2012 1:18:47 PM
There isn't much on NC law on ARs. The general rule of thumb is like you have said, a completed lower that includes the shoulder stock is considered a rifle and follows the rifle rules. A stripped lower or one that has completed with the pistol buffer follows the handgun rules.
As long as you both are residents of NC then a FFL doesn't need to be involved in a private sale.
There is also no law saying you can't CYA and at least view a DL or CHP or have a bill of sale or what ever measure makes you comfortable if you are selling or buying. As long as both parties agree.
As long as you both are residents of NC then a FFL doesn't need to be involved in a private sale.
There is also no law saying you can't CYA and at least view a DL or CHP or have a bill of sale or what ever measure makes you comfortable if you are selling or buying. As long as both parties agree.
4/11/2012 2:35:00 PM
Originally Posted By FlatFrogFlyer:
There isn't much on NC law on ARs. The general rule of thumb is like you have said, a completed lower that includes the shoulder stock is considered a rifle and follows the rifle rules. A stripped lower or one that has completed with the pistol buffer follows the handgun rules.
As long as you both are residents of NC then a FFL doesn't need to be involved in a private sale.
There is also no law saying you can't CYA and at least view a DL or CHP or have a bill of sale or what ever measure makes you comfortable if you are selling or buying. As long as both parties agree.
There isn't much on NC law on ARs. The general rule of thumb is like you have said, a completed lower that includes the shoulder stock is considered a rifle and follows the rifle rules. A stripped lower or one that has completed with the pistol buffer follows the handgun rules.
As long as you both are residents of NC then a FFL doesn't need to be involved in a private sale.
There is also no law saying you can't CYA and at least view a DL or CHP or have a bill of sale or what ever measure makes you comfortable if you are selling or buying. As long as both parties agree.
Exactly what I was looking for thank you sir.
4/12/2012 6:47:02 AM
Originally Posted By FlatFrogFlyer:
There isn't much on NC law on ARs. The general rule of thumb is like you have said, a completed lower that includes the shoulder stock is considered a rifle and follows the rifle rules.
There isn't much on NC law on ARs. The general rule of thumb is like you have said, a completed lower that includes the shoulder stock is considered a rifle and follows the rifle rules.
Not true. A buttstock alone doesn't make a lower into a "rifle" in the eyes of the ATF. It has to have been topped with a rifle upper at some point in order to be considered a "rifle".
This is federally speaking, though. Does NC say otherwise?
4/12/2012 1:18:00 PM
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
Not true. A buttstock alone doesn't make a lower into a "rifle" in the eyes of the ATF. It has to have been topped with a rifle upper at some point in order to be considered a "rifle".
This is federally speaking, though. Does NC say otherwise?
Originally Posted By FlatFrogFlyer:
There isn't much on NC law on ARs. The general rule of thumb is like you have said, a completed lower that includes the shoulder stock is considered a rifle and follows the rifle rules.
There isn't much on NC law on ARs. The general rule of thumb is like you have said, a completed lower that includes the shoulder stock is considered a rifle and follows the rifle rules.
Not true. A buttstock alone doesn't make a lower into a "rifle" in the eyes of the ATF. It has to have been topped with a rifle upper at some point in order to be considered a "rifle".
This is federally speaking, though. Does NC say otherwise?
The only ATF word I received was that the lower receiver had to be completed as a rifle lower with stock. They had no requirement for the upper since that part isn't the part that is considered the firearm.
If you have an ATF reg that specifies differently I'd appreciate it. Many dealers are completing lowers with stocks only and completing the 4473 as rifle without mating it to an upper.
4/12/2012 2:30:48 PM
Originally Posted By FlatFrogFlyer:
The only ATF word I received was that the lower receiver had to be completed as a rifle lower with stock. They had no requirement for the upper since that part isn't the part that is considered the firearm.
If you have an ATF reg that specifies differently I'd appreciate it. Many dealers are completing lowers with stocks only and completing the 4473 as rifle without mating it to an upper.
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
Not true. A buttstock alone doesn't make a lower into a "rifle" in the eyes of the ATF. It has to have been topped with a rifle upper at some point in order to be considered a "rifle".
This is federally speaking, though. Does NC say otherwise?
Originally Posted By FlatFrogFlyer:
There isn't much on NC law on ARs. The general rule of thumb is like you have said, a completed lower that includes the shoulder stock is considered a rifle and follows the rifle rules.
There isn't much on NC law on ARs. The general rule of thumb is like you have said, a completed lower that includes the shoulder stock is considered a rifle and follows the rifle rules.
Not true. A buttstock alone doesn't make a lower into a "rifle" in the eyes of the ATF. It has to have been topped with a rifle upper at some point in order to be considered a "rifle".
This is federally speaking, though. Does NC say otherwise?
The only ATF word I received was that the lower receiver had to be completed as a rifle lower with stock. They had no requirement for the upper since that part isn't the part that is considered the firearm.
If you have an ATF reg that specifies differently I'd appreciate it. Many dealers are completing lowers with stocks only and completing the 4473 as rifle without mating it to an upper.
I realize the upper isn't the actual firearm. But a virgin, unbarreled receiver can't be marked "long gun" or "rifle" on a 4473. If dealers are doing it, they are doing it wrong.
The above is from the AR Pistol section with all the ATF branch letters.
Maybe before "Other" was added to the 4473, a stocked lower was considered a rifle, I'm not sure. But at least currently, even a stocked lower is not considered a rifle, just because of the stock.
4/12/2012 3:10:45 PM
It's all about clear as mud. I appreciate the copy of the letter but do wonder about the last question where it talks about the lower with stock. It does say that only applies if it has been transferred as a receiver only. I guess that is the caveat that allows dealers to transfer a lower with stock as a rifle and not a receiver only and that would mean it couldn't go back to pistol.
All this makes a $30 FFL transfer seem pretty reasonable not to deal with the minutia of this mess we lovingly refer to as law.
I feel so safe now.
All this makes a $30 FFL transfer seem pretty reasonable not to deal with the minutia of this mess we lovingly refer to as law.
I feel so safe now.
4/14/2012 8:11:10 PM
I live in NC and I have purchased a complete lower from an individual, which I understand is legal in NC. It is considered a rifle.
However, later I learned that the castle nut must be staked in order for this to be considered a rifle (even though cutting the stake is childs play). The laws!
This may be confusing the issue a bit, but I wanted to drive to Columbia, to PSA, and buy a stripped lower. That was fine, IF they put a buffer tube on it and
staked the castle nut. That made it a rifle in the eyes of the law. Yes I know laws are different for sales across state lines and in state sales, but it speaks to
what is a rifle or a pistol in the eyes of the ATF.
Bottom line is it is legal to do a FTF in NC. I would always do a bill of sale and if I were the seller, get a copy of a valid NC DL.
4/15/2012 12:03:03 AM
Originally Posted By Avidrook:
I live in NC and I have purchased a complete lower from an individual, which I understand is legal in NC. It is considered a rifle.
However, later I learned that the castle nut must be staked in order for this to be considered a rifle (even though cutting the stake is childs play). The laws!
This may be confusing the issue a bit, but I wanted to drive to Columbia, to PSA, and buy a stripped lower. That was fine, IF they put a buffer tube on it and
staked the castle nut. That made it a rifle in the eyes of the law. Yes I know laws are different for sales across state lines and in state sales, but it speaks to
what is a rifle or a pistol in the eyes of the ATF.
Bottom line is it is legal to do a FTF in NC. I would always do a bill of sale and if I were the seller, get a copy of a valid NC DL.
It is legal in NC to do a FTF as long as both of you are NC residents at the time of sale. If the receiver is built with a butt stock for a rifle just stick an upper on it and do the sale. Buy the upper back if you have any concern. If it has a pistol buffer legally the buyers needs a pistol permit or CCP. If it is a receiver in a stripped or with a lower parts kit is is considered other and requires a pistol permit or CCP. Only when you are selling outside of NC or to a person who is not a resident of NC do you legally need an FFL to do a transfer. This is unless you are selling to many guns.
I live in NC and I have purchased a complete lower from an individual, which I understand is legal in NC. It is considered a rifle.
However, later I learned that the castle nut must be staked in order for this to be considered a rifle (even though cutting the stake is childs play). The laws!
This may be confusing the issue a bit, but I wanted to drive to Columbia, to PSA, and buy a stripped lower. That was fine, IF they put a buffer tube on it and
staked the castle nut. That made it a rifle in the eyes of the law. Yes I know laws are different for sales across state lines and in state sales, but it speaks to
what is a rifle or a pistol in the eyes of the ATF.
Bottom line is it is legal to do a FTF in NC. I would always do a bill of sale and if I were the seller, get a copy of a valid NC DL.
