AR15.Com Archives
 Caliber for Indiana deer?
gunsncountry  [Member]
1/25/2009 7:36:18 AM EST
Hey guys I need some help. I'm new to Indiana and have a .458socom to hunt with, but what other calibers are legal and lethal for deer in Indy? My Uncle wants to start hunting and I don't know which direction to point him in besides a .458.
Thanks.
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AR-50  [Member]
1/25/2009 8:13:07 AM EST
Legal Firearms
Shotguns, handguns, rifles with pistol
cartridges, muzzleloading long guns and
muzzleloading handguns are legal during the
firearms season. Only muzzleloading firearms
are legal during the muzzleloader season.
Hunters may carry more than one type
of legal firearm when hunting during the
firearms season only. Shotguns must be 10-,
12-, 16- or 20-gauge or .410 bore loaded with
slugs or saboted bullets. Rifled slug barrels are
permitted. Combination rifle-shotguns are not
allowed.
Muzzleloading firearms must be .44 caliber
or larger loaded with a single bullet of at
least .357 caliber. Saboted bullets are allowed,
provided the bullet is .357 caliber or larger. A
muzzleloading firearm must be loaded from
the muzzle. Multiple-barrel muzzleloading long
guns are allowed.
Rifles with pistol cartridges that fire a
bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have
a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and
have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches
are legal to use only during the deer firearms
season. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting
include the 357 Magnum, 38-40
Winchester, 41 Magnum, 41 Special,
44 Magnum, 44 Special, 44-40
Winchester, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 458
SOCOM
, 475 Linebaugh, 480 Ruger,
50 Action Express, and 500 S&W.
gunsncountry  [Member]
1/25/2009 8:51:32 AM EST
AR50 Thanks a lot, thats perfect. Now I get to find him a rifle
M4Madness  [Site Staff]
1/25/2009 8:57:04 AM EST
All legal cartridges must have a minimum bullet diameter of .357" and a case length (without bullet) that is a minimum of 1.16" and a maximum of 1.625". Below is a list of the most popular calibers. Wildcats that meet the parameters are also legal. There are NO restrictions on magazine capacity or action type.

Some of the legal calibers for deer rifles:

.357 Magnum
.357-44 Bain & Davis
.357 Remington Maximum
.357 Special Magnum
.358 WSSM
.375 Atomic
.375 Super Magnum
.40 Extreme
.40 Maximum
.401 Bobcat (1.29")
.401 Bobcat (1.40")
10mm Rimmed Magnum
.38-40 Winchester
.401 Herter Powermag
.41 Remington Magnum
.41 Special
.44-40 Winchester
.44 Auto Mag
.440 CorBon Magnum
.445 Super Mag
.44 Smith & Wesson Special
.44 Remington Magnum
.454 Casull
.45 Winchester Magnum
.45/50 Kodiak
.45 Colt
.450 Bonecrusher
.458 Devastator
.458 SOCOM
.480 Ruger
.475 Linebaugh
.475 Linebaugh Long
.475 Wildey Magnum
.500 Smith & Wesson Special
.500 Smith & Wesson Magnum
.50 Action Express (AE)
.500 Wyoming Express
.50 Action Express Rimmed
.500 Linebaugh
.500 Linebaugh Long
.50 Peabody Musket
.500 Phantom
Spudgunr  [Member]
1/25/2009 3:57:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By M4Madness:
All legal cartridges must have a minimum bullet diameter of .357" and a case length (without bullet) that is a minimum of 1.16" and a maximum of 1.625". Below is a list of the most popular calibers. Wildcats that meet the parameters are also legal. There are NO restrictions on magazine capacity or action type.

Some of the legal calibers:




Well, thats true of rifles. Pistols on the other hand can be barely a pistol and still qualify. For instance, I'm thinking about getting an AR pistol lower so I can put my 17" 6.5 grendel on it for deer season (since pistols don't have a min or max barrel length). I'd double check Indiana code first, but so far don't know of anything that would keep that from being legal. Its dumb I can put a pistol lower on that and it be legal...but it isn't legal in a rifle.
M4Madness  [Site Staff]
1/25/2009 4:27:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By Spudgunr:
Originally Posted By M4Madness:
All legal cartridges must have a minimum bullet diameter of .357" and a case length (without bullet) that is a minimum of 1.16" and a maximum of 1.625". Below is a list of the most popular calibers. Wildcats that meet the parameters are also legal. There are NO restrictions on magazine capacity or action type.

Some of the legal calibers for deer rifles:




Well, thats true of rifles.


Yeah, I only included calibers legal in rifles, because the OP was asking about rifles.

I know what you mean about all the high-powered stuff being legal in handguns but not rifles. It's quite bizarre that they would legalize them in an unstable platform such as a handgun where the chance of wounding is greater, instead of allowing a buttstock to stabilize the shot.
Spudgunr  [Member]
1/25/2009 4:49:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By M4Madness:
Originally Posted By Spudgunr:
Originally Posted By M4Madness:
All legal cartridges must have a minimum bullet diameter of .357" and a case length (without bullet) that is a minimum of 1.16" and a maximum of 1.625". Below is a list of the most popular calibers. Wildcats that meet the parameters are also legal. There are NO restrictions on magazine capacity or action type.

Some of the legal calibers for deer rifles:




Well, thats true of rifles.


Yeah, I only included calibers legal in rifles, because the OP was asking about rifles.

I know what you mean about all the high-powered stuff being legal in handguns but not rifles. It's quite bizarre that they would legalize them in an unstable platform such as a handgun where the chance of wounding is greater, instead of allowing a buttstock to stabilize the shot.


He didn't say he was ONLY interested in rifles though (chances are though since it is for somebody else to give a try rifle would be the logical choice) so I thought I'd add some extra options in there, just in case the uncle is a gun guy who just doesn't have anything IN legal.
M4Madness  [Site Staff]
1/25/2009 4:55:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By Spudgunr:
He didn't say he was ONLY interested in rifles though (chances are though since it is for somebody else to give a try rifle would be the logical choice) so I thought I'd add some extra options in there, just in case the uncle is a gun guy who just doesn't have anything IN legal.


Originally Posted By gunsncountry:
Now I get to find him a rifle.




It never hurts to discuss all the options though.


Spudgunr  [Member]
1/26/2009 1:48:28 AM EST
Yeah, I saw that, I meant to put a couple words in that would have very much changed the meaning:

"In the OP"
servicesoon  [Member]
1/26/2009 4:38:30 PM EST
I am going to embarass myself, but where is .308 WIN or 30-06 SPRING?
M4Madness  [Site Staff]
1/26/2009 4:49:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By servicesoon:
I am going to embarass myself, but where is .308 WIN or 30-06 SPRING?


Nothing to be embarrassed about. Indiana has stated that to be a legal cartridge in a rifle for deer hunting, it must have a minimum bullet diameter of .357" and a case length (without bullet) that is a minimum of 1.16" and a maximum of 1.625". The .308 and .30-06 both have bullet diameters less than .357" as well as having case lengths over 1.625". The whole reason for the DNR choosing those particular dimensions is to weed out any cartridges that perform much greater than shotgun and muzzleloader sabots. The minimum case length was devised to weed out cartridges that perform poorly on deer.

dbd870  [Team Member]
1/27/2009 7:06:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By servicesoon:
I am going to embarass myself, but where is .308 WIN or 30-06 SPRING?


Heh, heh; as has been mentioned: get an Encore in handgun configuration and the world will open up to you!

servicesoon  [Member]
1/27/2009 1:27:18 PM EST
Nothing to be embarrassed about. Indiana has stated that to be a legal cartridge in a rifle for deer hunting, it must have a minimum bullet diameter of .357" and a case length (without bullet) that is a minimum of 1.16" and a maximum of 1.625". The .308 and .30-06 both have bullet diameters less than .357" as well as having case lengths over 1.625". The whole reason for the DNR choosing those particular dimensions is to weed out any cartridges that perform much greater than shotgun and muzzleloader sabots. The minimum case length was devised to weed out cartridges that perform poorly on deer.

Color me confused. I thought the local walmart was out of 308 for the last 2 months because of hunting season. I understand prohibiting a cartidge that would perform poorly on deer, but what would be wrong with a cartridge that performs better than shotgun or muzzleloader?

servicesoon  [Member]
1/27/2009 1:28:54 PM EST
Heh, heh; as has been mentioned: get an Encore in handgun configuration and the world will open up to you!

I don't hunt. I am just here to learn about stuff above my current pay grade.

MJay  [Member]
1/27/2009 1:31:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By servicesoon:
Nothing to be embarrassed about. Indiana has stated that to be a legal cartridge in a rifle for deer hunting, it must have a minimum bullet diameter of .357" and a case length (without bullet) that is a minimum of 1.16" and a maximum of 1.625". The .308 and .30-06 both have bullet diameters less than .357" as well as having case lengths over 1.625". The whole reason for the DNR choosing those particular dimensions is to weed out any cartridges that perform much greater than shotgun and muzzleloader sabots. The minimum case length was devised to weed out cartridges that perform poorly on deer.

Color me confused. I thought the local walmart was out of 308 for the last 2 months because of hunting season. I understand prohibiting a cartidge that would perform poorly on deer, but what would be wrong with a cartridge that performs better than shotgun or muzzleloader?



I am not 100% sure but, I believe the reason they prohibit high-power rounds like 308 & 30-06 is because they travel a lot further than a 12ga slug. They look at it as a saftey issue.
M4Madness  [Site Staff]
1/27/2009 2:53:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By MJay:
Originally Posted By servicesoon:
Nothing to be embarrassed about. Indiana has stated that to be a legal cartridge in a rifle for deer hunting, it must have a minimum bullet diameter of .357" and a case length (without bullet) that is a minimum of 1.16" and a maximum of 1.625". The .308 and .30-06 both have bullet diameters less than .357" as well as having case lengths over 1.625". The whole reason for the DNR choosing those particular dimensions is to weed out any cartridges that perform much greater than shotgun and muzzleloader sabots. The minimum case length was devised to weed out cartridges that perform poorly on deer.

Color me confused. I thought the local walmart was out of 308 for the last 2 months because of hunting season. I understand prohibiting a cartidge that would perform poorly on deer, but what would be wrong with a cartridge that performs better than shotgun or muzzleloader?



I am not 100% sure but, I believe the reason they prohibit high-power rounds like 308 & 30-06 is because they travel a lot further than a 12ga slug. They look at it as a saftey issue.


Yes, the IDNR won't allow high-powered rifles for deer due to the population density of Indiana. Yet, as mentioned above, high-powered rifle cartridges in PISTOLS are perfectly legal for deer. Not to mention that you can varmint hunt and target practice with high-powered rifles.
dbd870  [Team Member]
1/28/2009 1:51:10 AM EST
Yes, the IDNR won't allow high-powered rifles for deer due to the population density of Indiana. Yet, as mentioned above, high-powered rifle cartridges in PISTOLS are perfectly legal for deer. Not to mention that you can varmint hunt and target practice with high-powered rifles.


This is the reason, but go take a look at PA's study on this very subject. There really isn't that much in it.
bfarrin1  [Team Member]
1/28/2009 2:34:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By gunsncountry:
My Uncle wants to start hunting and I don't know which direction to point him in besides a .458.
Thanks.



There are several options, the most popular ones have already been outlined.

He needs to figure out what he wants to do: how far he thinks he needs to be able to deliver a humane amount of energy, what his recoil tolerance is, what his accuracy requirements are and what platform he wants it on (Single Shot, Lever, Bolt Gun, Semi).

A good deal of the cartridges that fall within the regulation guidelines aren't commonly available at Wal-Mart or even your local gun shop - which begs the question, will he be reloading?





Katman6360  [Member]
3/31/2009 11:02:23 PM EST
What about the 6.8? Is it too long tall a case? Too small a bullet? Both?
buckfever34  [Moderator]
4/1/2009 3:53:45 AM EST
The case length is too long for the 6.8.
M4Madness  [Site Staff]
4/1/2009 3:13:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By Katman6360:
What about the 6.8? Is it too long a case? Too small a bullet? Both?


Both.

Katman6360  [Member]
4/1/2009 8:35:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By M4Madness:
Originally Posted By Katman6360:
What about the 6.8? Is it too long a case? Too small a bullet? Both?


Both.



That Sucks. What s the rule in Michigan?...Do they have a similar law? It used to be that north of a certain line you could rifle hunt. But Southern Michigan you had to use slugs. My brother lives close to the MI/IN Line ...Id like to get a 458 and be able to hunt both MI and IN when I come for a visit.
Katman6360  [Member]
4/1/2009 8:43:06 PM EST
What about the 450 Bushmaster? That one too long?
ten-ring  [Team Member]
4/1/2009 9:01:53 PM EST
It must also be in a chambering (for use in a rifle) who's case originates from a handgun cartridge..thus the .458 socom which (I believe) is a necked down 500 smith and wesson is legal.
Silvertip_3  [Member]
4/2/2009 5:06:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By ten-ring:
It must also be in a chambering (for use in a rifle) who's case originates from a handgun cartridge..thus the .458 socom which (I believe) is a necked down 500 smith and wesson is legal.


Nope, just has to meet the specs in the hunting regs––"Rifles with pistol cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have
a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms
season." Case in point is the wildcat .358 WSSM in the AR platform that some guys are using. That was never a pistol cartridge since it was based on a Winchester Super Short Magnum rifle cartridge. .458 SOCOM was originally loaded in special run of .50AE cartridges that had to further be formed, but is in fact its own case design. You can read a lot of this on the SOCOM's originator, Marty ter Weem's, Teppo Jutsu web site.
bfarrin1  [Team Member]
4/2/2009 6:03:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Silvertip_3:
Case in point is the wildcat .358 WSSM in the AR platform that some guys are using.


They run a lot better in a bolt gun, Encore or other single shot - Ruger #1, 1885, etc.

M4Madness  [Site Staff]
4/2/2009 3:38:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By Katman6360:
What about the 450 Bushmaster? That one too long?


Yep –– by about .035".
Rhinodo99  [Team Member]
4/3/2009 9:49:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By M4Madness:
Originally Posted By MJay:
Originally Posted By servicesoon:
Nothing to be embarrassed about. Indiana has stated that to be a legal cartridge in a rifle for deer hunting, it must have a minimum bullet diameter of .357" and a case length (without bullet) that is a minimum of 1.16" and a maximum of 1.625". The .308 and .30-06 both have bullet diameters less than .357" as well as having case lengths over 1.625". The whole reason for the DNR choosing those particular dimensions is to weed out any cartridges that perform much greater than shotgun and muzzleloader sabots. The minimum case length was devised to weed out cartridges that perform poorly on deer.

Color me confused. I thought the local walmart was out of 308 for the last 2 months because of hunting season. I understand prohibiting a cartidge that would perform poorly on deer, but what would be wrong with a cartridge that performs better than shotgun or muzzleloader?



I am not 100% sure but, I believe the reason they prohibit high-power rounds like 308 & 30-06 is because they travel a lot further than a 12ga slug. They look at it as a saftey issue.


Yes, the IDNR won't allow high-powered rifles for deer due to the population density of Indiana. Yet, as mentioned above, high-powered rifle cartridges in PISTOLS are perfectly legal for deer. Not to mention that you can varmint hunt and target practice with high-powered rifles.


It's silly for sure. BTW, I'm gonna squirrel hunt with my .270 this year. I also need to borrow someones 50 BMG for rabbit season.
gunsncountry  [Member]
4/5/2009 2:34:37 PM EST
Damn M4 you're all over this topic, Thanks. I'm new to Indiana (Lowell) so this thread has just about gone over all my questions. I am looking into reloading my socom. My uncle is in a different situation (wealthy) so I don't know if he'll be reloading or just burning money on factory loads, recoil also isn't a factor. I am also interested in hunting in Wisconsin and Michigan so any feedback on that is welcomed as well
M4Madness  [Site Staff]
4/5/2009 2:43:44 PM EST
With the current political scene, .458 SOCOM uppers have become as scarce as hens' teeth. A Rock River Arms upper sold less than two weeks ago on Gunbroker.com for $1225:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=125262298
gunsncountry  [Member]
4/5/2009 2:47:25 PM EST
That's sick I don't think I paid that much for my complete .458
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