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 MY CCW was denied....
Patriot328  [Team Member]
12/13/2003 7:47:52 PM


Hey y'all... Been living in Northern KY for about 7 months or so. I'm finally able to apply for the CCW, so I went ahead and did it after I past the 6month mark.

I got the letter of denial in the mail today due to my background check coming back with some sort of NCIC record that would prevent me from getting the right to carry in KY.

Here's the kicker.. I have no criminal record. I've never been arrested or had anything worse than a traffic ticket, ever. I'm also an airline pilot (who has had 3 10yr background checks done in the last 5 years) and I also have passed screening to be a federal flight deck officer (carry a gun in the cockpit) and will be going to class in January. That means I will actually be a Federal LEO by law. That, too, requires a background check, which I passed.

The form says if I wish to contest the denial that I need to sign it infront of the sherrif and provide documentation of why I should be allowed to contest the denial. I don't know *WHY* exactly I was denied in the first place. Is this something the sherrif can tell me in person when I see him on Monday?

Any one else ever had a problem such as this?
Jeep29  [Member]
12/13/2003 9:28:01 PM
The Sheriff really has no information of what happened with your check. All his office does is act as a contact between you and the State Police for the transfer of the paperwork and the actual permit. Maybe his office can provide you a contact at the SP who can give you more info. Good luck getting it all straightened out.
Patriot328  [Team Member]
12/13/2003 9:37:31 PM

Originally Posted By Jeep29:
The Sheriff really has no information of what happened with your check. All his office does is act as a contact between you and the State Police for the transfer of the paperwork and the actual permit. Maybe his office can provide you a contact at the SP who can give you more info. Good luck getting it all straightened out.



Thanx Jeep. I'll give the KSP a jingle on Monday. Hopefully I can get it straightened out relatively easily. The form asked for "supporting documents" for my case. I have none, as I have NO criminal record... I guess I can wait til I finish FFDO training and show them my LEO creditials.... we'll see!
GackMan  [Team Member]
12/13/2003 10:47:17 PM
Sorry to butt in here, I'm not from KY.

But, do you have a common name? Like Joe Smith?

I have a friend who gets delayed for a near hit in NCIC all the time when he is buying a gun. Some turd out there is a multi felon with the same name and date of birth is almost exactly the same.

I'd apeal and ask them to make sure that wasn't a mistake somewhere.
Patriot328  [Team Member]
12/14/2003 2:45:06 AM

Originally Posted By GackMan:
Sorry to butt in here, I'm not from KY.

But, do you have a common name? Like Joe Smith?

I have a friend who gets delayed for a near hit in NCIC all the time when he is buying a gun. Some turd out there is a multi felon with the same name and date of birth is almost exactly the same.

I'd apeal and ask them to make sure that wasn't a mistake somewhere.




That's what I plan on doing (my name isn't that common, but's not like Trent Steele or somethin). I'll be calling Monday morning to straighten it out.

NCCop  [Member]
12/17/2003 8:34:44 PM
Patriot328:

Not meaning to butt into your thread, but I can maybe shed some light on what happened with your CCW application. Here in NC, the applicant is fingerprinted, has a local (county & city) records check, a state records check through the Administrative Office of the Courts (checks all past & current criminal court records in the state), and a check with the local Mental Health office. The fingerprints are transmitted to the FBI for an NCIC (Nat'l. Crime Information Center) records check, and to the State Bureau of Investigation for a state records check against their fingerprint files. The decision to issue or deny is left to the Sheriff, but he has to be able to show a specific reason for the denial (criminal record, mental health record, alcohol or substance abuse, etc). As I understand KY law (my brother-in-law has a KY CCW permit), the decision is made by the State Police, not the local sheriff. So if a close match comes back on your records check, from a similar name/DOB/Social Security #, they probably deny it UNTIL you can satisfy them you are not the person with the criminal record. If you have not been fingerprinted as part of the application process for the CCW, you will probably have to be printed to eliminate the possibility you have criminal convictions. I can't remember if my B-in-law said he was printed during the process or not.

The NCIC search cross-searches similar names, DOBs, SSNs, etc. for about 5 yrs on either side of your DOB. So it's entirely possible that the computer gave them a hit on someone with a similar identifier. In NC we have a little more leeway at the local level, since in a small county there's a good chance that the Sheriff or someone else in the agency knows the applicant, and can make the determination that he/she isn't the person listed on the computer record. Since you already have prints on file from your prior security checks, it should be fairly simple to clear you.

I would suggest calling & asking the KSP what documentation they would accept (pilot's license, clearance letter to the FLETC firearms training, etc.) & taking the originals to the Sheriff so he can make his own copies. If they want prints, I'm sure they can take them when you go in.

Hope this helps you out. One of the guys in our gun club is waiting to go to FLETC for the pilots firearms training now. Good luck.
piccolo  [Team Member]
12/17/2003 9:01:15 PM
You sure your name isn't Dan Cooper? Maybe Chuck Manson?

The NCIC system is , from what I heard, pretty much set up opposite the way the system is supposed to be: Better to deny 1000 honest citizens than arm one white-collar criminal.

With your background, paperwork, etc, I'm pretty sure you can clear things up.
Patriot328  [Team Member]
12/18/2003 2:47:24 AM

Originally Posted By NCCop:
Patriot328:

As I understand KY law (my brother-in-law has a KY CCW permit), the decision is made by the State Police, not the local sheriff. So if a close match comes back on your records check, from a similar name/DOB/Social Security #, they probably deny it UNTIL you can satisfy them you are not the person with the criminal record. If you have not been fingerprinted as part of the application process for the CCW, you will probably have to be printed to eliminate the possibility you have criminal convictions. I can't remember if my B-in-law said he was printed during the process or not.

The NCIC search cross-searches similar names, DOBs, SSNs, etc. for about 5 yrs on either side of your DOB. So it's entirely possible that the computer gave them a hit on someone with a similar identifier.

Hope this helps you out. One of the guys in our gun club is waiting to go to FLETC for the pilots firearms training now. Good luck.





I think you pretty much nailed everything here. KY doesn't require finger prints for the CCW. I have a clean record so I would assume there is someone out there that has a name close to mine that isn't so clean. I've talked to the deputy in my county here and he basically said what you did. Kind of annoys (the hell out of) me that I have to prove myself innocent of any criminal misdoing considering I've never had anything more than a traffic ticket on my record, but that's the way the game is played now.

The deputy did say it was not uncommon for this to happen and it should be an easy clear up. I talked to the KSP and they basically said just sign the denial form that requests reconsideration and that gives them more leway for looking at the NCIC record to clear up any mix up.

Your friend will love the training.. I know several people that have gone through so far and they had a great time.. 4000ft elevation in NM will knock you out for the first day or two, apparently. I'll find out soon enough.

Piccolo... LOL no DB Cooper or Manson in my family, but my name isn't THAT uncommon, I guess. Your assement of the NCIC system is correct. I get to jump through all sorts of hurdles to carry when a person who does not want to follow the law just sticks his glock in his pants... got to love the system.
NCCop  [Member]
12/18/2003 11:28:37 AM
Patriot328:

Talked with my brother-in-law after I posted my reply last night. He said that one of his buddies had the same problem with the NCIC check, and that all he had to do was go to his local sheriff's office to get it cleared up. So hopefully you won't have any problem.

KY's process is normally faster than NC's, because you guys don't have to wait for the FBI to return the fingerprint results. But for those of you who get a false match on the NCIC check it means more hassle to clear up the mis-understanding. Guess you were just not lucky this time.

Didn't realize they had moved the training to NM. The last I heard they were still sending pilots to the FLETC at Glynco, GA, outside Brunswick. Sounds like an improvement. BTW my buddy lives on top of a 3k ft. mountain here, so the altitude shouldn't bother him too much....LOL.

Good luck with your permit & your training.
Ky_Bob  [Team Member]
12/23/2003 9:15:06 PM
Patriot,

Have you heard anything new? If you have further problems check out www.kc3.org

Bob