AR15.Com Archives
 MA LTC Delay
KingCobra58  [Member]
12/23/2004 10:03:30 AM EST
Looking for feedback on how long some MA members have been waiting for their LTCs. I applied for a new LTC back on Oct. 20 and was told 4-6 weeks, but it's been 9 weeks now. My PD says they haven't received anything yet.
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jshooter  [Member]
12/23/2004 2:32:07 PM EST
Not at all uncommon. some of my friends on the south shore have waited close to 12 weeks. Mine, fortunately, only took 2 weeks last winter (also south shore). good luck.
Gregory_A  [Member]
12/23/2004 3:00:01 PM EST
i waited the whole entire period they said.i think it was 2 1/2 months.
RedSoxDoc  [Member]
12/23/2004 3:40:40 PM EST
2 buddies of mine (New Bedford) put in for their renewals back in Sept. and still haven't gotten anything back. This is for renewals!!! Sounds like they are trying to discourage people from applying.
95thFoot  [Team Member]
12/23/2004 6:26:34 PM EST
Northborough took about two weeks. I was very surprised that it was so fast, and it came back as LTC-A ALP. In fact, all applications come back as LTC-A ALP. You either qualify- or you don't, acc. to the new PD chief's policy. He even encourages FID applicants to apply for the LTC-A ALP instead.....
ED_P  [Member]
12/24/2004 3:24:10 PM EST
I wish there was an up to date database of which police chiefs issue All Lawful Purposes, Class A, with no hastle, and more importantly which ones are turds.


I used to live in Westford, Ma, and the Chief there was about as good as one can hope for, at least a few years ago.

FunYun1983  [Member]
12/25/2004 2:40:30 PM EST
I wish I had that luck. My LTC-A (non-ALP) got sent out on Dec. 9. The guy said 30 days. He also said I had to wait till the permit ran out to get the ALP. Which means 6 years, I'll probably go back in a year and try for a ALP. I live in Attleboro, what do you think my chances are, I'm 21.
McClane  [Member]
12/27/2004 9:55:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By 95thFoot:
Northborough took about two weeks. I was very surprised that it was so fast, and it came back as LTC-A ALP. In fact, all applications come back as LTC-A ALP. You either qualify- or you don't, acc. to the new PD chief's policy. He even encourages FID applicants to apply for the LTC-A ALP instead.....



Man... I wish I lived there. Mine only took 4 weeks as they said it would with no delays, but it's a LTC - A Target and Hunting only. This is my first LTC and the Brockton Chief apparently wont issue an All Lawful for your first one... kinda a lame excuss if you ask me, but anyway... they told me when I renew (if I'm good for the 6 years) I'll get the ALP with no problem. I guess the last 30 years that I have lived in Brockton and never been arrested for anything and the fact that I have been involved in the privite loss prevention for 12 years (6 in Brockton) doesnt mean squat.

But I like your chiefs way better... all or nothing. The way it should be. I mean The AG does all that he can already to make it damn near imposible to buy a decent gun in MA anyway. Why have the Chief flubbing it up as well. Personally I think it should go to the state and come from the state. Local should have nothing to do with it. If you have no criminal history, you should be able to get an LTC-ALP at age 21 with no hassels at all.
LenS  [Team Member]
12/29/2004 8:48:33 AM EST
Well, color me shocked!

My B'day/LTC expiration is in Feb, 2005 so here's my renewal calendar:

- Dropped off application, pictures and check on 11/30/04 (we don't have MIRCS up and running here yet).
- Appointment for "interview" for 12/15/04. [As Lt. said, I've had an LTC in the same town since 1976 with no problems, so none were expected except slow state bureaucracy . . . that's why I was so shocked at the rapid response.]
- Today (12/29/04) I received my next LTC-A/ALP in the SnailMail. I really didn't expect it before late Feb!

Only problem is that the damn thing (old style LTC) feels like 1/4" Plexiglas! Don't think I can fold this one without cutting it and drill/tap it for a brass hinge!

KingCobra58  [Member]
12/29/2004 3:25:56 PM EST
Congrats, Len. It's now 10 wks and counting. My town has the MIRCS. Silly me, I would of thought that was going to be faster! Hopefully I'll get the call soon. Happy New Year everyone.
LenS  [Team Member]
12/29/2004 5:57:03 PM EST
KC,

With the MIRCS, I would expect it to be a lot shorter time! Only problem I'm aware of is that DMH has either not been reporting back to the PDs or taking as much as 8 weeks to get back with a mental health report.

What I am not sure of is whether the PD is Mandated to wait for DMH or can issue if no response.

Happy New Year to all!
PPD  [Team Member]
1/3/2005 3:32:44 AM EST
Mine took 8 days....but I'm LEO

My Chief (North Shore) doesn't use ALP on LTC-A's, but rather "Protection of Life". There's been some controversy about "All Lawful Purposes" and just what that means. As a PO, my license states "Protection of Life and Property". Don't ask me why, but that's what they wanted.
LenS  [Team Member]
1/3/2005 4:36:31 AM EST
PPD,

Protection of Property in MA is "illegal", MGLs only allow the use of deadly force for protection of life.

Our Chief gave a spiel about LTCs for "Protection of Life and Property" at one of our Town Meetings, forcing me to get up and publicly correct him about MGLs!

ALP is the simplest definition out there . . . if what you are doing isn't in accordance with MGLs, you are "operating outside the purpose on your LTC". Chief Ron Glidden preaches that no chief should issue LTCs other than LTC-A with ALP as the reason. His position is that if you don't trust the person to carry (LTC-B) or only "sport & hunting" or "target & hunting", it causes more confusion about "what does it really mean" and you shouldn't issue the LTC at all! [If you can't trust them to operate within the law (ALP), then what makes the person trustworthy by restricting them to "target & hunting"?] And that is what Ron teaches at MCJTC (or whatever it is called now).

PPD  [Team Member]
1/3/2005 7:05:30 AM EST
LenS,

I totally agree that they should be ALP. Way before I got on the job I asked the licensing officer WHY NOT use ALP as the reason, and his answer was "that's what the Chief wants."

I also understand "Protection of Life and Property" isn't appropriate, and don't ask me why they used it on our LTC. The officer who issued mine (now retired) told me PO's had a right to use force to protect property. Maybe in his day....??? I haven't renewed mine in a few years, so perhaps they've changed. I'll check and post my findings.

PPD
PPD  [Team Member]
1/3/2005 3:51:50 PM EST
Well, I talked to the Detective who issues the LTC's in our department and he confirmed that the Chief still requires "Protection of Life" on the LTC-A's, and "Protection of Life and Property" on ours (LEO). We spoke for a few minutes about the wording, and he confirmed it was correct. He mentioned something about police officers being able to use force to protect property, but even his explanation was a little confusing. Anyways, he's a pretty bright guy, and he's been to all the licensing seminars (including Chief Glidden's!), and our Chief is the President of the Firearms Licensing Board, so there must be something more to it. Once again, I think it goes back to the interpretation of "All Lawful Purposes".
LenS  [Team Member]
1/3/2005 6:08:53 PM EST
PPD,

Well once a chief makes up his mind, it usually is like a steel trap! Very difficult to get them to change their minds.

I successfully changed my chief's mind on this some years ago, with the help of GOAL's info sheet on ALP.

I was discussing this issue the other day with another chief, and he just totally hates guns and chooses to give everyone a hard time. A third town jerked a fellow Constable (and former military) on his renewal for >6 months, he had to have 4 interviews with the PD but he finally prevailed and got ALP.
KingCobra58  [Member]
1/4/2005 5:14:04 AM EST
Finally got the call yesterday, my LTC-A ALP, was ready. Just 2 days shy of 11 weeks. Thanks for all the feedback.
95thFoot  [Team Member]
1/4/2005 5:56:52 AM EST
The moral of this story seems to be: if you live inside the urban liberal area of 128/95 in MA, you WILL have a very difficult time getting LTC-A ALP. If you live within suburbanized Rte 495 it's easier, but still expect some problems. Outside of those two areas, MA CLEOs tend to be a lot more (dare I say it) liberal when it comes to issuing, esp. in small towns, where they have to face their constituents everyday or at town meeting. Central/Western Ma/ the Cape, generally no real problems. (Not sure about Springfield or Worcester, but they are cities, not small towns.)

I recently learned that our new chief, who took over from an arrogant, utterly antigun CLEO, was coached by his subordinates, when he came in from CT, to adopt Ron Glidden's interpretation of licensing. Thank you, Ron!
J_Smith  [Member]
1/4/2005 2:46:22 PM EST
I just got my non-resident Class A LTC - ALP..........It took the best part of this year getting the paperwork straight - partially cause I kept getting deployed out of state. Finally have it though .......stationed in Boston but live in Plymouth - not sure how common Class A LTC - ALP are on the South Shore area.
PPD  [Team Member]
1/4/2005 5:16:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By J_Smith:
I just got my non-resident Class A LTC - ALP..........It took the best part of this year getting the paperwork straight - partially cause I kept getting deployed out of state. Finally have it though .......stationed in Boston but live in Plymouth - not sure how common Class A LTC - ALP are on the South Shore area.



Best thing about getting a NON-RESIDENT license is that you deal directly with the State Police, instead of the individual cities and towns. If you meet the requirements, you will be issued a license, plain and simple.

There are still several cities and towns that flat out deny LTC-A's. The Town of Carver used to be one of them when the female Chief was there. She was even denying renewals for people who had licenses for over 30-40 years! I got to meet her once, after she got the boot. Quite a charmer! Ironically, the majority (99%) of LEO's know less about the law, state regulations, etc. , than the law abiding citizen that lives in this state. Most wouldn't know a preban from a postban, nor care much the less. Not a bash on LEO (ME!), just an observation.

Good shootin...
MrsWildweasel  [Team Member]
1/11/2005 2:26:51 AM EST
We haven't had any problems with our chief. We live outside of Northampton. Maybe it helps he's an ex-marine! The only problem I had last year is it took 9 months for me to get it. I had had my CCW before that,it was just a renewal.
sgthoskins  [Team Member]
1/11/2005 8:08:41 AM EST
For the record, the Police Chief in Holden, MA (Chief Sherrill) is top notch. A very nice guy and issues only ALP in Holden.
95thFoot  [Team Member]
1/11/2005 8:11:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrsWildweasel:
We haven't had any problems with our chief. We live outside of Northampton. Maybe it helps he's an ex-marine! The only problem I had last year is it took 9 months for me to get it. I had had my CCW before that,it was just a renewal.



9 months??? What happened to your application? Did it fall down in back of somebody's donut box, or something?
MrsWildweasel  [Team Member]
1/11/2005 8:26:30 AM EST
I really don't know what happened,but somewhere along the line I think it was lost on both ends. I know our police chief was sick of me calling. It took my mother-in-law 6 months to get her renewal. You tell me. All I know is the next time I come up for renewal I am starting way early.
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