AR15.Com Archives
 Are new Glocks now legal in MA?
pcgod  [Member]
9/9/2003 6:13:27 PM
I was looking thru the GOAL newsletter "The Outdoor Message". They had the latest firearms list published. All the Glock models are listed. I thought if it was on the list we could buy it new rather than try to find an old one that is already in this state.

What's up with this?

swatmedic  [Team Member]
9/9/2003 8:38:23 PM
There are actually 2 lists. the one published in the GOAL newletter is from the Dept of Public Safety. In addition there is another list from the AG's office. If a gun is not on both lists it can not be sold new in this state.
Emoto  [Member]
9/10/2003 3:03:16 PM
I don't think the AG publishes a list at all, do they? Is it available for download?

My (possibly flawed) understanding is that the manufacturers must pay to have their pistols put through an expensive and idiotic testing process (includes things like melting point!) and if their pistol passes testing AND is on the published roster, then it may be sold.

Glock has not had their pistols tested, so new Glocks cannot be sold here.
pcgod  [Member]
9/10/2003 4:13:01 PM
Here's what I have found...

There is only 1 list and that is published by the Dept of Safety. However, the list only seems to cover specific chapter 180 issues and there are a couple points that the AG wants on firearms. Let me quote...

B. THE EFFECT OF THE APPROVED FIREARMS ROSTER ON THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE ADDITIONAL PRODUCT REQUIREMENTS OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S HANDGUN SALES REGULATIONS

The Attorney General's handgun sales regulations include three product requirements that are not shared by the Chapter 140 handgun product requirements, and that are not tested for the Approved Firearms Roster:

child-safety features
940 CMR 16.05(2), (4)
load indicators and magazine safety disconnects for semi-automatic handguns
940 CMR 16.05(3), (4)
tamper-resistant serial numbers
940 CMR 16.03
A handgun that is listed on the Approved Firearms Roster might not satisfy these three additional product requirements. If a handgun does not satisfy these three additional requirements, then it is a violation of the regulations for a handgun purveyor to transfer that handgun even if the handgun is listed on the Approved Firearms Roster.

Chewdog  [Member]
9/11/2003 7:50:57 AM
The only manufacturers who have Mass compliant handguns are S&W (almost all), SIG (most, designated by a MA in the model #), Beretta (most models), and Walther (most models). The Four Seasons web site (fsguns.com) has a complete list of handguns that you can not buy new in Mass.
budam  [Member]
9/12/2003 3:43:59 AM
If you buy a Glock frame from a dealer and then buy the slide from someone else, you can get a new Glock in MA.

For those who will say otherwise, read the regs closely and you will see it talks about dealers selling complete firearms...

A firearm that is NOT complete is not a firearm in MA, as far as the state is concerned.

mark
propguy  [Team Member]
9/12/2003 9:38:09 PM

Originally Posted By budam:
If you buy a Glock frame from a dealer and then buy the slide from someone else, you can get a new Glock in MA.

For those who will say otherwise, read the regs closely and you will see it talks about dealers selling complete firearms...

A firearm that is NOT complete is not a firearm in MA, as far as the state is concerned.

mark


So here we go again sell me a Kimber frame I still have to register it "yes" it is the firearm so where would one get such a "gun" outside of ones home state? I do see what you are saying as to what it reads BUT do you have someone WILLING to risk selling the FRAME? I know I dont. Maybe I just dont look hard enough. Not trying to be an ass just asking for some facts..... HAVE YOU DONE THIS? WOULD YOU DO THIS? Thanks PG
Emoto  [Member]
9/16/2003 2:33:51 PM

Originally Posted By budam:
If you buy a Glock frame from a dealer and then buy the slide from someone else, you can get a new Glock in MA.

For those who will say otherwise, read the regs closely and you will see it talks about dealers selling complete firearms...

A firearm that is NOT complete is not a firearm in MA, as far as the state is concerned.

mark



What you say is technically correct, however finding an FFL in MA who is willing to sell you a frame for a gun not approved in MA will be like finding rocking horse shit.
propguy  [Team Member]
9/16/2003 7:44:05 PM

Originally Posted By Emoto:

Originally Posted By budam:
If you buy a Glock frame from a dealer and then buy the slide from someone else, you can get a new Glock in MA.

For those who will say otherwise, read the regs closely and you will see it talks about dealers selling complete firearms...

A firearm that is NOT complete is not a firearm in MA, as far as the state is concerned.

mark



What you say is technically correct, however finding an FFL in MA who is willing to sell you a frame for a gun not approved in MA will be like finding rocking horse shit.


SDavid  [Team Member]
9/16/2003 10:28:10 PM
I am buying a house in MA, and I may move back if I do move back on a permenant basis I will be bringing in some things like 1911 frames and some other stuff that can't be bought with out to much trouble or expense.
Emoto  [Member]
9/17/2003 3:05:46 PM

Originally Posted By SDavid:
I am buying a house in MA, and I may move back if I do move back on a permenant basis I will be bringing in some things like 1911 frames and some other stuff that can't be bought with out to much trouble or expense.



Excellent idea to bring back whatever you can, if you do have to return.

You could make lots of $$$ selling what you bring in, but per MA state law you can only sell 4 guns a year.
SDavid  [Team Member]
9/17/2003 5:00:11 PM
Frames aren't firearms

Hmmm... 1911 , AR-15, and maybe try and get some new Glock frames before hand if I do end up back.
Chewdog  [Member]
9/18/2003 8:28:30 AM
Long arms are still not a problem here in Mass, though Cheryl Jacques proposes a transfer ban each year, it hasn't made it out of committee yet. Try to locate outside of the 128 belt - once you get outside that belt around Boston, especially north and west, attitudes towards guns changes drastically.
Emoto  [Member]
9/19/2003 3:13:36 PM

Originally Posted By Chewdog:
Long arms are still not a problem here in Mass, though Cheryl Jacques proposes a transfer ban each year, it hasn't made it out of committee yet. Try to locate outside of the 128 belt - once you get outside that belt around Boston, especially north and west, attitudes towards guns changes drastically.



South too. I am south of town and had no trouble getting Class A--ALP.
propguy  [Team Member]
9/19/2003 8:05:40 PM

Originally Posted By Emoto:

Originally Posted By Chewdog:
Long arms are still not a problem here in Mass, though Cheryl Jacques proposes a transfer ban each year, it hasn't made it out of committee yet. Try to locate outside of the 128 belt - once you get outside that belt around Boston, especially north and west, attitudes towards guns changes drastically.



South too. I am south of town and had no trouble getting Class A--ALP.


Yep same here No problem the Wife goes for her A ALP Sat.
LenS  [Member]
9/20/2003 6:59:23 PM
There is one dealer (who folks here don't like) on Cape Cod who will bring in frames for folks and do the 4473/NICS (Feds define frame as "gun") and NO FA-10 (MA defines a gun as "complete" only, frames are thus not guns).

I am told that there is another dealer willing to do this in the Springfield area, but don't recall who it is.
propguy  [Team Member]
9/20/2003 7:18:50 PM

Originally Posted By LenS:
There is one dealer (who folks here don't like) on Cape Cod who will bring in frames for folks and do the 4473/NICS (Feds define frame as "gun") and NO FA-10 (MA defines a gun as "complete" only, frames are thus not guns).

I am told that there is another dealer willing to do this in the Springfield area, but don't recall who it is.


hmmmm But when you build IT you must register IT with the state right? Hey don't get me wrong I want a KIMBER but I "aint" payin Mass. prices...... if I could find one ......
Emoto  [Member]
9/22/2003 1:07:44 PM

Originally Posted By propguy:

Originally Posted By LenS:
There is one dealer (who folks here don't like) on Cape Cod who will bring in frames for folks and do the 4473/NICS (Feds define frame as "gun") and NO FA-10 (MA defines a gun as "complete" only, frames are thus not guns).

I am told that there is another dealer willing to do this in the Springfield area, but don't recall who it is.


hmmmm But when you build IT you must register IT with the state right?



This is unclear to me. The FA-10 must be filled out and sent in to the state when a gun is transferred from one party to another, and I could be worng, but I do not believe that the statute says anything about making guns. I would check with an attorney about that.
LenS  [Member]
10/7/2003 12:10:15 AM
Buying a frame requires 4473/NICS but NO FA-10. When you then build up the gun Nothing in MA Gen'l Laws requires an FA-10 to be filed. Think of the logic this way: I own a TC Contender with 2 or more barrels. Assume I bought the frame separate from the barrels. Now, do I file a new FA-10 each time I change barrels?

The info above (and that I posted earlier) came from LE sources that are "very close to the licensing situation". Ergo, attorneys that you and I pay for with our tax dollars have already been consulted in this matter.

budam  [Member]
10/11/2003 4:40:17 AM

Originally Posted By propguy:
Not trying to be an ass just asking for some facts..... HAVE YOU DONE THIS? WOULD YOU DO THIS? Thanks PG



Yes, I have done with many times.. I know of 2 dealers who will do it. Just did a Glock recently.

Bill Picket who heads up the MA licensing for Firearms for MA State told me this verbally. n fact Bill was telling me he has to send back AF-10 to dealers/private citizens who keep sending them in for frame only acqusitions... Various LEO have also said it. The Chief who is the head of the state firearms board (or whatever it is called) has verified it. Look in his book that he publishes.

mark
propguy  [Team Member]
10/11/2003 7:36:48 PM

Originally Posted By budam:

Originally Posted By propguy:
Not trying to be an ass just asking for some facts..... HAVE YOU DONE THIS? WOULD YOU DO THIS? Thanks PG



Yes, I have done with many times.. I know of 2 dealers who will do it. Just did a Glock recently.

Bill Picket who heads up the MA licensing for Firearms for MA State told me this verbally. n fact Bill was telling me he has to send back AF-10 to dealers/private citizens who keep sending them in for frame only acqusitions... Various LEO have also said it. The Chief who is the head of the state firearms board (or whatever it is called) has verified it. Look in his book that he publishes.

mark


Thanks Mark PG