SBR in IL ??

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2012/03/illinois-nra-backed-legislation-continues-to-make-progress.aspx?s=&st=&ps=

Anyone hear about this?

I saw that too.

It looks like it would only apply to c&r firearms? I have a c&r license and will be looking for updates on this.

Looks like it may have to be a reenacting firearm, possessed by a C&R holder, or by a bonafide re-enactor

Now they just need to let C&R's have MG's again











I no I no, I am dreaming!

I'm with D223 on this one-

Language is fuzzy with the placement of the semi colons, but I would conservatively read it as
1) SBR owned for reenactment purposes
2) Requirements for ownership is a valid ATF C&R FFL or membership in a bona fide reenactment group


I do not believe anyone is currently using 14.5" M4s to reenact Fallujah


ETA: I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV

sounds like maby we need to start one......

Correct me if I am wrong, but it says to me you have to have a C&R OR be a member of a re-enactor group. So if you follow the letter of this exemption then just a C&R license would allow for SBR and SBS? After all it does not say you have to be in a group if you have a C&R.

The wording is somewhat confusing and a clarification is definitely in order. I read it as a weapon that is suitable for re-enacting is legal for those who possess a C&R or are members of a re-enactor group.

That's the way that I read it also...that a C&R is required, OR a member of a re-enactor's group. However, I think what makes it fuzzy is the fact that it's buried in a re-enactor's bill. If think we all need to submit our SBR forms and see what happens after this passes. I have my C&R already...everyone should get one and be ready to submit.

It reads to me is a SBR is legal to possess if you are either A) a Type 03 FFL, or B) a re-enactor and the weapon in question is suitable for re-enacting. If that reading is accurate, a Type 03 could have any SBR, and only a re-enator is limited by what he/she can own. It would seem to me the intent is more what you wrote, though. But it looks poorly written and would create a loophole one could exploit if you're willing to pay the fee and put up with the potential of the ATF auditing your Bound Book. But what happens if you let the 03 lapse, or you give up re-enacting? Does the SBR stay legal or do you become at risk for a felony rap?

Typical very badly worded and poorly thought out law from the Illinois legislature.

This is not a surprise. The wordsmiths do not often write legislation well.

One of the guys at my local gun club is a WWII re-enactor and he said a bunch of his people were pushing for this. He told me legislative intent was to cover those who had a replica M-3 or Thompson SMG. He also said he was going to wait to see how this plays out and he was in no hurry to shorten the barrel on his M-3.

This has been covered before, and it would only cover re-enactors. No hope for Illinois for nfa.

well, sort of - I have seen us talk about the law actually passed and signed into law last year to allow SBR's, this is actually to touch it up since it was even more poorly worded.


Here is the full ppertinent text of the bill and the language it is replacing (from the legislature website):

7 (7) A person possessing a rifle with a barrel or
8 barrels less than 16 inches in length if: (A) the person
9 has been issued a Curios and Relics license from the U.S.
10 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; or (B)
11 the person is an active member of a bona fide, nationally
12 recognized military re-enacting group and the modification
13 is required and necessary to accurately portray the weapon
14 for historical re-enactment purposes; the re-enactor is in
15 possession of a valid and current re-enacting group
16 membership credential; and the overall length of the weapon
17 as modified is not less than 26 inches. An active member of
18 a bona fide, nationally recognized military re-enacting
19 group possessing a vintage rifle or modern reproduction
20 thereof with a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches in
21 length for the purpose of using the rifle during historical
22 re-enactments if: (A) the person has been issued a Curios
23 and Relics license from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol,
24 Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; or (B) the modification
25 is required and necessary to accurately portray the weapon
26 for historical re-enactment purposes; the re-enactor is in
1 possession of a valid and current re-enacting group
2 membership credential; and the overall length of the weapon
3 as modified is not less than 26 inches.

ETA: It does appear to clarify what I thought I read in the old law from last year that there is a loophole to own an SBR if you are a C&R licensee regardless of your reenactor status.

So they're moving through another bill to fix the screwed up bill from last year? Interesting. Had no idea that reenactment groups had that kind of political pull.

At the rate things are going, they'd change the law again between the time you submitted a Form 1 and actually got it approved

This looks like they changed the wording to make it a bit more clear in what they were trying to do last year. How I read the proposed law, granted I'm not a lawyer it says:

A. You have A C&R license from BATFE

OR:

B. You are a re-enactor with membership to a nationally recognized club and you need it for an accurate portrayal for re-enacting purposes.

Time will tell to see how this goes, but it looks more favorable to me than the previous wording.

Your right the wording is different, but what about the part that says the modified version still has to be 26" overall?

I believe the 26" overall part applies to members of a re-enacting group, not C&R license holders. That's only the way I read it, and I'm not a lawyer, and I don't even play one on TV...

Agreed, and that's the intent of the bill as I read it too...to make it OR instead of the currently worded AND in the bill.

I guess I am going to get my C&R.

Well holy hell, we might just be able to get SBR's in the near future?

I agree with FAL, MPD142, and P08 on this.

In some regards I'm worse than a lawyer (a law student), but I think the language in both the House and Senate bills is pretty clear. To possess an SBR one will only need to have a C&R license or be an active member of a bona fide re-enactment group subject to the restrictions listed.

Pertinent language:

House Bill 4901:
"A person possessing a rifle with a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches in length if: (A) the person has been issued a Curios and Relics license from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; or (B) the person is an active member of a bona fide, nationally recognized military re-enacting group and the modification is required and necessary to accurately portray the weapon for historical re-enactment purposes; the re-enactor is in possession of a valid and current re-enacting group membership credential; and the overall length of the weapon as modified is not less than 26 inches."

Senate Bill 2539:
"Any person who has been issued a Curios and Relics license from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; or an active member of a bona fide, nationally recognized military re-enacting group possessing a vintage rifle or modern reproduction thereof with a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches in length for the purpose of using the rifle during historical re-enactments if: (I)the modification is required and necessary to accurately portray the weapon for historical re-enactment purposes; and (II) the re-enactor is in possession of a valid and current re-enacting group membership credential; and the overall length of the weapon as modified is not less than 26 inches."

This is definitely good news. Let's hope the bills make it through the reconciliation process unscathed and get to the governor with the "or" instead of an "and."

Maybe we can get full auto under the same premise.... probably can't spin silencers as being for reenacting though.

This is where most lawmakers screw up. Their intent is one thing, but their lack of real knowledge of the subject is lacking severely. Therefore poor wording benefits us sometimes. Or maybe this was intended from the beginning to be so loosely written that they want us to have SBR's?

DING DING DING I THINK WE HAVE A WINNER
I actually got to speak with one of the men who has been a driving force in pushing last years version of this bill, and this new version through to clarify the OR language, at the Zombie shoot last fall up near chicago. This is designed to open the door for SBRs and later more NFA items into IL. Its kind of using a back door play, but hey if it helps me get my foot in the door i am all for it.

Pat

One big question is.....what happens when you either A) let your 03 FFL expire, or you quit reenacting? Do you get to keep your SBR or will it become contraband? If you cannot have it anymore, will you be able to sell it, or will it have to be turned in to avoid a felony rap?

As I read it, it is quite clear the C&R license is needed to possess, not just acquire. I am a C3 MG dealer as such I can possess "pre sample" machine guns. If I lived in any other state besides Il if I gave up my license I could keep the pre sample until I tired of it. In Il I have to dispose of it if I ever give up my license.

Sure you can.

L34 Sterling, Delisle carbine, Welrod, bunch of others.

This! I would love to use a SBR HK416 to reenact the bin laden killing using the printed targets of him is fine with me.

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