Archived Posts » 60,617,507
Bay Park Square Mall, Green Bay, WI
4/1/2012 2:01:13 PM
While back in GB visiting the parents, I went to my bank which is on mall property. You can't even drive in without passing one of these. I said F'em, as the car is an extension of home, so drove on in anyway, but please discuss the legality. Also worthy of note is that I didn't notice any signs when I walked into shopko on my way to get an OrangeJulius, but there were some on mall entrances as i left.
4/1/2012 7:02:15 PM
I see them all the time. F-them.....my vehicle is immune to their bullshit signage. Same thing with my work, as they posted at the entrances as well. I even had a good heart to heart with the one of the head security officers and told him those signs can NOT prevent me from being armed in my vehicle. He shrugged it off, but agreed. And you are correct as there is no CCW signage going into SHopko, so I will give you a guess as to what entrance I use all the time.
4/1/2012 9:35:29 PM
oakwood mall in eau claire is the same thing.but no sign on doors. so the way I interpret that is not posted
4/2/2012 1:54:20 AM
Have people lost their minds in this state since CCW passed? Is this a natural reaction to the passage of the law, or are the people here in WI just nuts? It seems like I can't even step off my property without someone shaking their finger at me 
telling me that CCW is not allowed.
telling me that CCW is not allowed.4/2/2012 3:25:22 AM
Originally Posted By GreenZ:
I said F'em, as the car is an extension of home, so drove on in anyway, but please discuss the legality.
I said F'em, as the car is an extension of home, so drove on in anyway, but please discuss the legality.
Alright I'm game, don't know if it would be better to discuss it in the CCL FAQ or here.
The extension of the home isn't really a defense to carrying a firearm in a vehicle on someones property, it really only sorta relates if you need to defend yourself I.E. the castle doctrine.
You can say F'em and have you firearm in your vehicle as long as your a licensee.
Don't say F'em on federal property I.E. VA parking lot as they could F'you back pretty good, I'd also stay off of postal parking lots for good measure too.
943.13 Trespass to land.
943.13(1m)(b) Enters or remains on any land of another after having been notified by the owner or occupant not to enter or remain on the premises. This paragraph does not apply to a licensee or out-of-state licensee if the owner's or occupant's intent is to prevent the licensee or out-of-state licensee from carrying a firearm on the owner's or occupant's land.
943.13(1m)(c)2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit, to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university or college, or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.
943.13(1m)(b) Enters or remains on any land of another after having been notified by the owner or occupant not to enter or remain on the premises. This paragraph does not apply to a licensee or out-of-state licensee if the owner's or occupant's intent is to prevent the licensee or out-of-state licensee from carrying a firearm on the owner's or occupant's land.
943.13(1m)(c)2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit, to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university or college, or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.
Edited to add: If some entrances aren't posted properly, posting here as such might be a good way for them to get posted properly
4/2/2012 8:49:22 PM
I know the signage laws for buildings, but not land.
ie, if I want to go to ShopKo to get my Rx filled and they aren't posted (as none of the walk in entrances are posted), I should be able to drive in, park there, and walk in w/o hassle, as ShopKo is the lease holder of the property and as such make their own rules. Much like an employer can not prohibit carry in your car on their lot, I would think that any publicly accessable place would be GTG as long as you were passing thru (ie, going TO somewhere that allows carry).
Alas, perhaps I think wrong. Not that it matters that much. I already avoid shopping at that mall, and have resolved that concealed is concealed. My bank doesn't post.
In order to walk inside a building, you must pass thru a door. If that door is posted, you have been notified. However, it is certainly possible that I park at best buy, walk across the street without seeing any signs (no driveway there) and onto mall property. Have I been notified? No. I don't foresee them installing fencing to keep this from happening, but I can see them creating a big deal if you printed or jacket flapped open.
ie, if I want to go to ShopKo to get my Rx filled and they aren't posted (as none of the walk in entrances are posted), I should be able to drive in, park there, and walk in w/o hassle, as ShopKo is the lease holder of the property and as such make their own rules. Much like an employer can not prohibit carry in your car on their lot, I would think that any publicly accessable place would be GTG as long as you were passing thru (ie, going TO somewhere that allows carry).
Alas, perhaps I think wrong. Not that it matters that much. I already avoid shopping at that mall, and have resolved that concealed is concealed. My bank doesn't post.
In order to walk inside a building, you must pass thru a door. If that door is posted, you have been notified. However, it is certainly possible that I park at best buy, walk across the street without seeing any signs (no driveway there) and onto mall property. Have I been notified? No. I don't foresee them installing fencing to keep this from happening, but I can see them creating a big deal if you printed or jacket flapped open.
4/2/2012 9:11:17 PM
Originally Posted By 14TheKid:
Have people lost their minds in this state since CCW passed? Is this a natural reaction to the passage of the law, or are the people here in WI just nuts? It seems like I can't even step off my property without someone shaking their finger at me telling me that CCW is not allowed.
Have people lost their minds in this state since CCW passed? Is this a natural reaction to the passage of the law, or are the people here in WI just nuts? It seems like I can't even step off my property without someone shaking their finger at me
telling me that CCW is not allowed.yes people here are nuts.they are all just going crazy
4/2/2012 10:00:13 PM
Originally Posted By Clay54961:
yes people here are nuts.they are all just going crazy
Originally Posted By 14TheKid:
Have people lost their minds in this state since CCW passed? Is this a natural reaction to the passage of the law, or are the people here in WI just nuts? It seems like I can't even step off my property without someone shaking their finger at me telling me that CCW is not allowed.
Have people lost their minds in this state since CCW passed? Is this a natural reaction to the passage of the law, or are the people here in WI just nuts? It seems like I can't even step off my property without someone shaking their finger at me
telling me that CCW is not allowed.yes people here are nuts.they are all just going crazy
Happens in every state where it passes to some degree or another.
Although some places that have had CCW permits "forever" or permitless like Vermont has been for decades, they never took notice because it was never "new".
4/2/2012 10:14:22 PM
Originally Posted By AJ_Dual:
Happens in every state where it passes to some degree or another.
Although some places that have had CCW permits "forever" or permitless like Vermont has been for decades, they never took notice because it was never "new".
Originally Posted By Clay54961:
yes people here are nuts.they are all just going crazy
Originally Posted By 14TheKid:
Have people lost their minds in this state since CCW passed? Is this a natural reaction to the passage of the law, or are the people here in WI just nuts? It seems like I can't even step off my property without someone shaking their finger at me telling me that CCW is not allowed.
Have people lost their minds in this state since CCW passed? Is this a natural reaction to the passage of the law, or are the people here in WI just nuts? It seems like I can't even step off my property without someone shaking their finger at me
telling me that CCW is not allowed.yes people here are nuts.they are all just going crazy
Happens in every state where it passes to some degree or another.
Although some places that have had CCW permits "forever" or permitless like Vermont has been for decades, they never took notice because it was never "new".
That sign posted by Greenz is ridiculous. I would have to stop my car in order to read that because of the size of the font/sign. Not only that, but the location of the sign itself is complete nonsense.
4/2/2012 10:18:34 PM
Originally Posted By GreenZ:
ie, if I want to go to ShopKo to get my Rx filled and they aren't posted (as none of the walk in entrances are posted), I should be able to drive in, park there, and walk in w/o hassle, as ShopKo is the lease holder of the property and as such make their own rules. Much like an employer can not prohibit carry in your car on their lot, I would think that any publicly accessable place would be GTG as long as you were passing thru (ie, going TO somewhere that allows carry).
Alas, perhaps I think wrong. Not that it matters that much. I already avoid shopping at that mall, and have resolved that concealed is concealed.
ie, if I want to go to ShopKo to get my Rx filled and they aren't posted (as none of the walk in entrances are posted), I should be able to drive in, park there, and walk in w/o hassle, as ShopKo is the lease holder of the property and as such make their own rules. Much like an employer can not prohibit carry in your car on their lot, I would think that any publicly accessable place would be GTG as long as you were passing thru (ie, going TO somewhere that allows carry).
Alas, perhaps I think wrong. Not that it matters that much. I already avoid shopping at that mall, and have resolved that concealed is concealed.
I think your good with that line of thinking, I'm too tired to look up the statutes but I believe you are correct.
Lets say ShopKo is attached to the mall but ShopKo isn't posted, you can go with your firearm to ShopKo. Now if ShopKo has an entrance to the mall and that is not posted, you are fine going into the mall with your firearm.
Now you might have known the mall didn't allow it because you read it on the internet, but you also read Unicorns dance under rainbows so you really had no way of knowing if it's true
Honestly I'm not to well versed on the trespass law because I just don't go many places that don't allow firearms anymore. I know of a few places that don't want firearms and I know they aren't properly posted but still abide by there wish's if I must go there.
4/4/2012 12:16:29 AM
Originally Posted By 14TheKid:
That sign posted by Greenz is ridiculous. I would have to stop my car in order to read that because of the size of the font/sign. Not only that, but the location of the sign itself is complete nonsense.
That sign posted by Greenz is ridiculous. I would have to stop my car in order to read that because of the size of the font/sign. Not only that, but the location of the sign itself is complete nonsense.
That's what I had to do. I actually drove in, and went past it (you can't really stop there as there is usually traffic behind you), and then went back a second time to make sure I saw what I thought i did.
4/4/2012 12:24:07 AM
I don't think you are correct on postal parking lots. I believe they are considered public property.
My uncle works for a post office and parks in the public portion of the lot for exactly that reason.
My uncle works for a post office and parks in the public portion of the lot for exactly that reason.
4/4/2012 12:47:35 AM
Originally Posted By gatetraveller:
I don't think you are correct on postal parking lots. I believe they are considered public property.
My uncle works for a post office and parks in the public portion of the lot for exactly that reason.
I don't think you are correct on postal parking lots. I believe they are considered public property.
My uncle works for a post office and parks in the public portion of the lot for exactly that reason.
Post office stuff confuses me, the special rules just for post offices confuse me. I still recommend staying off of the property, and that's why I said for good measure.
Who owns the property? If it's the feds then it's a no go. Hopefully someone will post definitely if we can go on the property but until then It too great a risk for me. I gave up looking at Fed/Post Office statutes rule stuff for now.
Even with the federal statute saying we can go into post offices carrying lawfully, the courts still screwed over some who tried.
