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Regarding SB5/Issue 2: How much did each 'side' spend...
11/11/2011 12:30:08 PM
promoting their viewpoint? Is there a way to find-out what was spent on advertising, rallies, etc.??
11/11/2011 12:45:59 PM
The last analysis I saw went thru the middle of October.
As of that time it was Unions/ Vote no crowd $24 million vs the Vote Yes Crowd of $8 Million.
$24 million was chump change for the unions. I'm guessing it ended up being more than that considering how many times in the last two weeks before the election I was hearing that our houses would burn and there would be lawlessness in the streets if we didn't preserve their overly generous benefits.
The amount that taxpayers got stuck paying for the portion of pensions that should have been paid by the employees themselves (pension pickups) for the city of Columbus alone last year was about $41 million.
As of that time it was Unions/ Vote no crowd $24 million vs the Vote Yes Crowd of $8 Million.
$24 million was chump change for the unions. I'm guessing it ended up being more than that considering how many times in the last two weeks before the election I was hearing that our houses would burn and there would be lawlessness in the streets if we didn't preserve their overly generous benefits.
The amount that taxpayers got stuck paying for the portion of pensions that should have been paid by the employees themselves (pension pickups) for the city of Columbus alone last year was about $41 million.
11/11/2011 1:01:25 PM
Not sure but it had to be an ass load with all the TV time from the opposition..
What beat this bill were two things I see.. One the pro side did very little to promote and get the truth out.. The second is and got thie first hand because I work around alot of union people.. Every union shop that was not even efected had it in their heads that the state is a union buster.. they all rallied behind this as if it was their lively hood was at stake,,, like they would lose their jor right after the election mentallity
They are very narrow minded people I work around.... what the sad part is that the cops the fire fighters,, really all state workers could give a fuck about any of the other unions and if asked they would NOT give any of their gold nugget to save them... in other words all you union die hards were duped into saving the state worker from having to do his or her job and get paid a fare ammount and pay their fare share in health care...
In a nut shell those who voted for the repeal you can be proud that you have cost a lot of people their jobs in the very near future......
Like Kasic said there is no bail out! there is no money...!!! and your union buddie Obama will be no where to be found when they start crying why did I loose my job?
What beat this bill were two things I see.. One the pro side did very little to promote and get the truth out.. The second is and got thie first hand because I work around alot of union people.. Every union shop that was not even efected had it in their heads that the state is a union buster.. they all rallied behind this as if it was their lively hood was at stake,,, like they would lose their jor right after the election mentallity
They are very narrow minded people I work around.... what the sad part is that the cops the fire fighters,, really all state workers could give a fuck about any of the other unions and if asked they would NOT give any of their gold nugget to save them... in other words all you union die hards were duped into saving the state worker from having to do his or her job and get paid a fare ammount and pay their fare share in health care...
In a nut shell those who voted for the repeal you can be proud that you have cost a lot of people their jobs in the very near future......
Like Kasic said there is no bail out! there is no money...!!! and your union buddie Obama will be no where to be found when they start crying why did I loose my job?
11/11/2011 10:47:26 PM
Neither side told the truth of the issue. Far from it. Regardless, it was a loser from the start. In spite of the mewling about money spent and union scare tactics, the fact is, this issue never had popular public support. The vast majority of Ohioans just didn't want it. It served to drive many middle class conservatives from the party. It energized organized labor nationwide and the democratic party in Ohio. It has jeopardized the careers of many Republican state legislators.
In spite of the Tea Party, perhaps even because of them, this issue won't be revisited anytime soon. The republicans will have to hold on to both houses of the Ohio legislature next fall (they won't) and Kasich will have to get a second term. With an approval rating of around 30%, that is not likely as of right now.
In spite of the Tea Party, perhaps even because of them, this issue won't be revisited anytime soon. The republicans will have to hold on to both houses of the Ohio legislature next fall (they won't) and Kasich will have to get a second term. With an approval rating of around 30%, that is not likely as of right now.
11/12/2011 8:47:35 AM
Pretty much all of the state union workers, police and fire, teachers voted no on issue 2. Multiply this number by 2 to include their spouses. This number can be increased exponentially when you include their mom, dad, sister, cousin, etc. Add the non-state union members that were whipped into a "you're gonna lose your job too" frenzy. Include the money spent by the vote no crowd - incidentally, out-of-state contributed money spent was greater than all of the vote yes money in total spent. I am suprised that the yes vote was as high as it was. Does the drubbing of Issue 3 enter into your calculus that predicts gloom and doom for the republicans?
11/12/2011 9:21:24 AM
You hit the nail on the head. It was a poor conceived bill that never had a chance. I also believe it has made the public employee that doesn't vote the Democrat ticket, yes there are more than you would ever believe, anti-Republican. Issue 3 went down because many of the people who voted against 2 voted for 3. Believe it or not, people are getting sick of the 2 party rule, and the TEA party isn't the answer for them.
11/12/2011 9:24:44 AM
11/12/2011 10:41:48 AM
Originally Posted By lovetohunt:
You hit the nail on the head. It was a poor conceived bill that never had a chance. I also believe it has made the public employee that doesn't vote the Democrat ticket, yes there are more than you would ever believe, anti-Republican. Issue 3 went down because many of the people who voted against 2 voted for 3. Believe it or not, people are getting sick of the 2 party rule, and the TEA party isn't the answer for them.
You hit the nail on the head. It was a poor conceived bill that never had a chance. I also believe it has made the public employee that doesn't vote the Democrat ticket, yes there are more than you would ever believe, anti-Republican. Issue 3 went down because many of the people who voted against 2 voted for 3. Believe it or not, people are getting sick of the 2 party rule, and the TEA party isn't the answer for them.
Wow! I didn't think of this. (see highlighted in blue) Thanks much for your insight.
11/12/2011 12:23:38 PM
Originally Posted By lovetohunt:
You hit the nail on the head. It was a poor conceived bill that never had a chance. I also believe it has made the public employee that doesn't vote the Democrat ticket, yes there are more than you would ever believe, anti-Republican. Issue 3 went down because many of the people who voted against 2 voted for 3. Believe it or not, people are getting sick of the 2 party rule, and the TEA party isn't the answer for them.
You hit the nail on the head. It was a poor conceived bill that never had a chance. I also believe it has made the public employee that doesn't vote the Democrat ticket, yes there are more than you would ever believe, anti-Republican. Issue 3 went down because many of the people who voted against 2 voted for 3. Believe it or not, people are getting sick of the 2 party rule, and the TEA party isn't the answer for them.
As a State employee, I have to say this post really represents what I see with my co-workers. Most of us LIKED the idea of requiring employees to pay a portion of pension and healthcare, and we would LOVE a merit based system for raises. But my same co-workers hated how the bill was shoved down the public's throats without employee input, and they hated the idea of eliminating binding arbitration since we can not strike.
And most of us did vote down issue 3 so we are not blind Obama-bots. As lovetohunt mentioned, most of us are sick with both parties (and all politicians) as they are either one extreme or the other. There really is no way to work with either side right now.
Kasich's best move is to take the portions of SB 5 that everyone approves (healthcare/pension contributions and merit based raises) and put them in a new bill. Unfortunately his current target is eliminating the pension systems we have been paying into which actually will not save Ohio one cent as the pension systems are separate legal entities in this State. Kasich does not have the best interest of this State in mind, he is on a war path against public workers. The other side (Dems) just want to give assloads of cash to employees based solely on time spent behind the desk (actual skill and merit be damned). The irony of his war path is that he has done NOTHING to reduce entitlements to those WHO DO NOT WORK AT ALL. This State is screwed.
11/12/2011 2:16:51 PM
Originally Posted By vaughn4380:
As a State employee, I have to say this post really represents what I see with my co-workers. Most of us LIKED the idea of requiring employees to pay a portion of pension and healthcare, and we would LOVE a merit based system for raises. But my same co-workers hated how the bill was shoved down the public's throats without employee input, and they hated the idea of eliminating binding arbitration since we can not strike.
And most of us did vote down issue 3 so we are not blind Obama-bots. As lovetohunt mentioned, most of us are sick with both parties (and all politicians) as they are either one extreme or the other. There really is no way to work with either side right now.
Kasich's best move is to take the portions of SB 5 that everyone approves (healthcare/pension contributions and merit based raises) and put them in a new bill. Unfortunately his current target is eliminating the pension systems we have been paying into which actually will not save Ohio one cent as the pension systems are separate legal entities in this State. Kasich does not have the best interest of this State in mind, he is on a war path against public workers. The other side (Dems) just want to give assloads of cash to employees based solely on time spent behind the desk (actual skill and merit be damned). The irony of his war path is that he has done NOTHING to reduce entitlements to those WHO DO NOT WORK AT ALL. This State is screwed.
Originally Posted By lovetohunt:
You hit the nail on the head. It was a poor conceived bill that never had a chance. I also believe it has made the public employee that doesn't vote the Democrat ticket, yes there are more than you would ever believe, anti-Republican. Issue 3 went down because many of the people who voted against 2 voted for 3. Believe it or not, people are getting sick of the 2 party rule, and the TEA party isn't the answer for them.
You hit the nail on the head. It was a poor conceived bill that never had a chance. I also believe it has made the public employee that doesn't vote the Democrat ticket, yes there are more than you would ever believe, anti-Republican. Issue 3 went down because many of the people who voted against 2 voted for 3. Believe it or not, people are getting sick of the 2 party rule, and the TEA party isn't the answer for them.
As a State employee, I have to say this post really represents what I see with my co-workers. Most of us LIKED the idea of requiring employees to pay a portion of pension and healthcare, and we would LOVE a merit based system for raises. But my same co-workers hated how the bill was shoved down the public's throats without employee input, and they hated the idea of eliminating binding arbitration since we can not strike.
And most of us did vote down issue 3 so we are not blind Obama-bots. As lovetohunt mentioned, most of us are sick with both parties (and all politicians) as they are either one extreme or the other. There really is no way to work with either side right now.
Kasich's best move is to take the portions of SB 5 that everyone approves (healthcare/pension contributions and merit based raises) and put them in a new bill. Unfortunately his current target is eliminating the pension systems we have been paying into which actually will not save Ohio one cent as the pension systems are separate legal entities in this State. Kasich does not have the best interest of this State in mind, he is on a war path against public workers. The other side (Dems) just want to give assloads of cash to employees based solely on time spent behind the desk (actual skill and merit be damned). The irony of his war path is that he has done NOTHING to reduce entitlements to those WHO DO NOT WORK AT ALL. This State is screwed.
The bold part of your post will be very interesting to see how it plays out assuming that the democrats regain power. No doubt there are some extremely unhappy state/union employees right now but is a tax and spend it all and spend some more democrat going to be able to fix the state money problems? My guess is no and the money problems will only get worse with the democrats in charge. This could get us to where we are going a lot faster. I would be scared shitless if I were dependent on the state for my income and retirement.
11/12/2011 5:39:59 PM
Originally Posted By Patio:
Pretty much all of the state union workers, police and fire, teachers voted no on issue 2. Multiply this number by 2 to include their spouses. This number can be increased exponentially when you include their mom, dad, sister, cousin, etc. Add the non-state union members that were whipped into a "you're gonna lose your job too" frenzy. Include the money spent by the vote no crowd - incidentally, out-of-state contributed money spent was greater than all of the vote yes money in total spent. I am suprised that the yes vote was as high as it was. Does the drubbing of Issue 3 enter into your calculus that predicts gloom and doom for the republicans?
Pretty much all of the state union workers, police and fire, teachers voted no on issue 2. Multiply this number by 2 to include their spouses. This number can be increased exponentially when you include their mom, dad, sister, cousin, etc. Add the non-state union members that were whipped into a "you're gonna lose your job too" frenzy. Include the money spent by the vote no crowd - incidentally, out-of-state contributed money spent was greater than all of the vote yes money in total spent. I am suprised that the yes vote was as high as it was. Does the drubbing of Issue 3 enter into your calculus that predicts gloom and doom for the republicans?
Issue 3 illustrates that conservatives in Ohio came out in large numbers this election. The yes votes (in favor of limiting Obamacare) were over 170K more than the no votes for issue 2 ( those in favor of eliminating SB5). The numbers illustrate that the people who voted down SB5 are not Obamabots. They are not socialist union thugs. A large number of them are conservatives who rejected the B.S. flung by the fringes of the far right.
Nearly every public employee I spoke to about the issue, and it was more than 75 people, made it clear that they had been life long republican voters. Nearly all of them said they would never vote republican again. The most common attitude I found among them was a feeling that the far right had seized control of the party and had declared war on the middle class.
I know it's tough to take a defeat of an issue that you support, but the numbers clearly show that Ohioans, both conservatives and liberals did not support SB5. Supporters of SB5 lost because they are a considerable minority. The petition drive to get issue 2 on the ballot drew record numbers in every county in the state. All the B.S. about money spent, scare tactics and poorly ran campaigns aside, the plain truth of the matter is that SB5 never had popular support.
11/12/2011 8:36:42 PM
Originally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter:
Nearly every public employee I spoke to about the issue, and it was more than 75 people, made it clear that they had been life long republican voters. Nearly all of them said they would never vote republican again.
Nearly every public employee I spoke to about the issue, and it was more than 75 people, made it clear that they had been life long republican voters. Nearly all of them said they would never vote republican again.
If you are a life long republican and are never voting republican again over SB5, then you are an idiot. And I might add, not really a republican or conservative.
There isn't a damn person in these threads that was a NO on 2 person that didn't have some personal stake in the issue. All the no people are either in unions, or have a relative in a union. And people not in these threads who voted no did so because of the scare tactics of ads that claimed we were all going to die from no fire and police if SB5 remained the law.
I understand the No on 2 people who vote for their own self interest and for the self interest of family members. Even the self interest of others in unions. I get it. Those swayed by the scary advertising are just plain freakin idiots. Useful idiots one and all.
11/12/2011 8:59:02 PM
Originally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter:
Issue 3 illustrates that conservatives in Ohio came out in large numbers this election. The yes votes (in favor of limiting Obamacare) were over 170K more than the no votes for issue 2 ( those in favor of eliminating SB5). The numbers illustrate that the people who voted down SB5 are not Obamabots. They are not socialist union thugs. A large number of them are conservatives who rejected the B.S. flung by the fringes of the far right.
Nearly every public employee I spoke to about the issue, and it was more than 75 people, made it clear that they had been life long republican voters. Nearly all of them said they would never vote republican again. The most common attitude I found among them was a feeling that the far right had seized control of the party and had declared war on the middle class.
I know it's tough to take a defeat of an issue that you support, but the numbers clearly show that Ohioans, both conservatives and liberals did not support SB5. Supporters of SB5 lost because they are a considerable minority. The petition drive to get issue 2 on the ballot drew record numbers in every county in the state. All the B.S. about money spent, scare tactics and poorly ran campaigns aside, the plain truth of the matter is that SB5 never had popular support.
Originally Posted By Patio:
Pretty much all of the state union workers, police and fire, teachers voted no on issue 2. Multiply this number by 2 to include their spouses. This number can be increased exponentially when you include their mom, dad, sister, cousin, etc. Add the non-state union members that were whipped into a "you're gonna lose your job too" frenzy. Include the money spent by the vote no crowd - incidentally, out-of-state contributed money spent was greater than all of the vote yes money in total spent. I am suprised that the yes vote was as high as it was. Does the drubbing of Issue 3 enter into your calculus that predicts gloom and doom for the republicans?
Pretty much all of the state union workers, police and fire, teachers voted no on issue 2. Multiply this number by 2 to include their spouses. This number can be increased exponentially when you include their mom, dad, sister, cousin, etc. Add the non-state union members that were whipped into a "you're gonna lose your job too" frenzy. Include the money spent by the vote no crowd - incidentally, out-of-state contributed money spent was greater than all of the vote yes money in total spent. I am suprised that the yes vote was as high as it was. Does the drubbing of Issue 3 enter into your calculus that predicts gloom and doom for the republicans?
Issue 3 illustrates that conservatives in Ohio came out in large numbers this election. The yes votes (in favor of limiting Obamacare) were over 170K more than the no votes for issue 2 ( those in favor of eliminating SB5). The numbers illustrate that the people who voted down SB5 are not Obamabots. They are not socialist union thugs. A large number of them are conservatives who rejected the B.S. flung by the fringes of the far right.
Nearly every public employee I spoke to about the issue, and it was more than 75 people, made it clear that they had been life long republican voters. Nearly all of them said they would never vote republican again. The most common attitude I found among them was a feeling that the far right had seized control of the party and had declared war on the middle class.
I know it's tough to take a defeat of an issue that you support, but the numbers clearly show that Ohioans, both conservatives and liberals did not support SB5. Supporters of SB5 lost because they are a considerable minority. The petition drive to get issue 2 on the ballot drew record numbers in every county in the state. All the B.S. about money spent, scare tactics and poorly ran campaigns aside, the plain truth of the matter is that SB5 never had popular support.
The outcome of issue 2 does not affect me one way or the other right now. I am not a state employee dependent on the solvency of the government for my income or retirement. I was advised at a young age to never work for the government because I would never be happy. Many reasons were cited. I have already made plans to spend my golden years somewhere else besides Ohio. Raising taxes will cause me to vote with my feet sooner. I talked to 76 people and they feel the same way too.
