-1 for exhogflyer

In THIS THREAD I committed to purchase a handguard from "exhogflyer" after we had agreed upon a price via email.

I sent the MO out a fuzz late and included the original asking price as a small compensation for being late.

I get the handguard and it is gouged up and NOT in "like new" condition as advertised.

I've emailed the seller and made numerous attempts at giving him the opportunity to make things right and he is unwilling so here goes. -1 for exhogflyer

I'll be posting the email commo shortly



Dec. 6

I emailed asking if he would accept my offer of $40 shipped
to which exhogflyer responded - "Well, you're in MO so it's gonna be $5 to ship, how bout $45 shipped?"
I responded with "fair enough .. please send me an address and I'll get a USPS MO on the way .. I'll probablyget it out tomorrow after work but it might be Thursday depending on work schedule."
exhogflyer responded with "Ok, sounds like a deal! G*** M*** P.O. Box *** Cairo, NY 12413 Give me your address and I'll get it packed up as well"
I responded with " My shipping info is: D. ******* *** ******* Ave Archie, MO 64725 Thanks!"

Dec. 12

I emailed saying "I wasn't able to get the MO out last week .. but I'll get it out today after work. Thanks for understanding!"

Dec. 13

I emailed saying "I apologize for the delay but I got a MO out today for the RRA handguard .. to make up for the delay I sent the original asking price of $50 shipped."
exhogflyer responded "Thanks that was nice of you! I have it all packed out ready to go, I'll give you the tracking # when I ship.... Thanks! G***"

Dec 18

I emailed "Have you received my payment for the RRA handguard? just checking .. let me know"
exhogflyer responded "I got the MO Saturday but was not able to get it mailed out in time, so it will go out first thing Monday morning. Let me know when you receive it....."
I responded "fair enough .. just checking .. will do!

Dec. 19

exhogflyer responds "It went out today, postal tracking.........0310 2010 0002 1288 4646. Gene
curious, whatcha building?"
I responded "building two uppers .. 1 in 300 WTF ( the whisper was around long before AAC stole someone elses work) and another for a short lightweight 223"

Dec. 22

I responded " Sir,

The handguard showed up today .. however it is NOT in the like new condition as advertised. There is a pretty fair scratch/gouge and the sling swivel stud is crooked. I can only assume from being drilled at an angle. I can use it but its not what was represented and I feel like a partial refund would be in order.

Let me know."

I responded again "More pics ..

upon examining .. this isn't even a two piece float tube ..

I would NOT have bought this if the condition was represented as such in the ad.

I would like to return this and get a refund for the $50 I paid you plus return postage. As you can imagine I'm not happy with this deal at all.

Upon hearing back from you (and hearing how you would like to rectify the situation) I will decide whether positive or negative feedback is warranted.

Please get in touch with me!"

exhogflyer responds "Sorry you are disappointed in the handrail, ALL Rock River Arm handrails are a one piece design.It was carefully removed from a NEW upper that I purchased, was never fired or fielded,and I certainly did NOT see any scratch or gouge on it when I packed it up.The stud may have been damaged or bent from my end ,I don't recall that to be the case but since I didn't actually check it I do believe you.It was NOT drilled at an angle that is the way it came from RRA.

I would be willing to send you back $5 as that is the price of a new stud (actually about $2), I just checked to see if I had one but don't otherwise I would simply send it to you.

Again, it was not my intention to deceive you OR anyone about the type ( I DID state it was a Rock River Arms), nor was I aware of a damaged stud.

Let me know if you wish me to send you the $5."


exhogflyer responded "BTW I am genuinely confused.....your pic shows a gouge in the END of the stud and bent,

my pic shows NO gouge and the stud is straight."

I responded "Can you see the gouges clearly or shall I take new photos?

This is clearly not "like new" as you advertised.

Either refund my money or I'll have little choice but to leave a negative feedback thread on arfcom with all my pics .. your choice add to how to handle this."


exhogflyer responds "And your pic shows what appears to be metal shavings around the stud and a "filed" notch with an oily residue.....I am POSITIVE it never left like that

Are you sure you are not simply trying to "return" an item because YOU didn't know it was 1 piece?"


I responded "Yes there is a gouge in the end of the stud and severely bent .. along with more gouges in the end of the handguard."

exhogflyer responds "Well sir,

my ORIGINAL photo clearly shows a straight stud, NO metal shavings, no oil.

My offer to send you back $5 still stands to make up for the damaged stud, but I will not be "forced "to make a refund because you did not research what type of handrail RRA makes."

I responded "I can live with a one piece if necessary .. but .. the handguard was inspected and pics taken shortly after I got home .. I did not fool with it one bit and it is not as advertised "
I responded "Send me your phone number and I'll call you on my dime."

exhogflyer responded "so you can post it online?
NOT happening sir !"

exhogflyer responds "here is the original photo" (pic in ad)

I responded "Your pic is taken at such an angle that the bent stud and gouges are not visible.
I offered to call you rather than email. Posting your number wouldn't be the right thing to do .. and I'd get slapped by arfcom if I did it there .. so WTF.
You leave me little choice ..
You misadvertised an item and won't make good .. -1 it is."

exhogflyer responds "you still haven't explained the metal shavings and oil........"

I responded "The oil around the stud is as it showed up. There is no metal shavings."
I responded "Since you are unwilling to make this right .. I have been left with little choice but to report this to the ARFCOM mods"

exhogflyer responds "I have offered to send you $5 for the stud.....that is what is damaged.But a full refund? Seriously?"

I respond "Yes a full refund .. not only is the stud damaged .. but there are gouges present and not disclosed."

Dec. 24

I respond "I've asked for the EE sale thread to be locked to protect content and it has .. I'm ready to post everything on ARFCOM in a -1 thread.

I'm trying to give you a chance here.

The handguard is ready to ship out Tuesday back to your PO Box .. are you willing to refund my money or not?"

Dec. 26

exhogflyer responds "Sir, you are beginning to annoy me!

WE BOTH KNOW this is all about the fact that you bought a handguard without knowing it was one piece....this is NOT my fault.

This is NOT about the supposed "gouge" because there was none....a scuff possibly that wipes off?

This can NOT truly be about a damaged swivel stud that I've offered to pay you for...my god if it is grow up and move on with your life.All this over a $50 item? I am beginning to think that you are one of these people who thinks the whole world revolves around you, and I will NOT cater to you.

If you weren't such an ass about the whole thing I MAY have done more.

Do whatever you want...notify the mods, post pics and cry about everything,call the police if you want.

Good day sir...."



I responded "This has nothing to do with 1 piece vs 2 piece .. its about a falsely advertised item (not in "like new" condition).

The handguard is gouged and dicked up .. and the stud is bent too .. I offered you numerous opportunities to make this right .. be prepared for the sh*tstorm I'm about to rain down on you.

The only further contact you will receive from me is notification of the -1 feedback thread that is about to be posted. "






PICS will be uploaded tomorrow have been uploaded that were sent to exhogflyer to substantiate my claim this handguard is NOT as advertised.










exhogflyer has been sent an IM and email with a hard link to this thread .. never thought I'd be posting a -1 thread over $50 .. guess some people don't honor their reputation ..

Sure doesn't look bent or gouged in his picture.

exhogflyer's profile

I'll send him an IM and e-mail with a link to this.


ETA...IM and e-mail link sent.

Those studs aren't made of rubber - it takes some force to bend them. That big nick in the top of the stud is a major clue.. question is, who did it (and how)?

Would pretty much have to be shipping damage - but there's no way that the package would not show some evidence of such an impact. That stud went metal-to-metal with another object, and any cardboard that might have been in the way would no longer be intact.

Go over the package very carefully, particularly in the area where the stud was housed. If it's clean & straight, then someone is pulling a fib, here.

Looks like someone used a large pair of Channelocks to remove that tube and used the stud as a gripping surface.

no it doesn't .. the angle of the bend is hidden in his photo .. and the gouges are on the opposite side near the muzzle end.



The packaging is without blemish .. and those pics were taken immediately after opening and the damage was exposed.



Perhaps that met his definition of "carefully removed" ??

exhogflyer, don't ruin your rep over 50 bucks.......

It's the sellers responsibility to get the item there safely.

Full refund or a significant partial refund specifically defined by buyer.

I am going to respond to this after much consideration.First off,stud MAY have been bent at my end though I don't see how but I wasn't looking specifically at it.NO channel-locks were used on removal, only a strap wrench.If one looks carefully at my original pic it's quite clear that there are no gouges nor is the stud bent.As far as gouges in the rail....I still maintain the buyer is simply trying to back out of a deal where he purchased the "wrong" type handrail and is trying to "sh#tstorm" me into submission. But here is what I'll do.....I'll refund $5 for the price of a stud,$5 more as that is the extra money "added" for sending a payment late,and another $5 because I'm tired of all this nonsense.That's $15 back to the buyer......let me know.

Unacceptable .. if your pics were as complete ( ETA: and as accurate) as mine I would never have paid you $20 let alone $50. This is a misrepresented item to which you can CLAIM buyers remorse .. but you are still wrong and the handguard is still gouged up.

Eta: I didn't come here to get$15 back. If you would like to represent the item fully to the next buyer for $35 then that's on you .. but I'm not buying this P.O.S. handguard for any amount of money when you represented it as something other than it is.

I have no way of knowing whether the rail was damaged before or after it was shipped since the seller only has one kinda of crappy picture of one side from before it was shipped to look at.

Since the buyer has declined the partial refund I think it would be best if this deal was undone and the rail returned for a complete refund.

Also, just by taking that one and only picture at that angle and posting it, that looks bad. In IMHO it looks like the seller was just trying to drop his trash on someone else and make a few bucks.

Undo it.

If if the seller was willing to pay $15 as a partial refund he has to be willing to take the whole thing back and sell it to another poor soul.

~Norinco

The handguard was sent back to exhogflyer today via priority del confirmation 0310 0480 0001 2734 9781. Now exhogflyer will have both my money and the rail .. hope he does the right thing.

Well I guess that's one way of putting the ball back in his court.

Bit on the dangerous side without having an agreement made. Hoping that honesty and integrity is intact in someone has bitten many in the arse.

maybe so .. then again ARFCOM doesn't look too kindly upon someone screwing another over!

That was a bad move, bud. No actual deal was made on a refund and you sent him the hand guard back.

What's the WORST that can happen?? He ****s me over, keeps the handguard and my money? .. It's about principles at this point!

Besides .. its all documented .. so IF he were inclined to screw me over .. his reputation goes to sh*t ..

I see 2 guys with great feed back and neither should want ruin that I also se 2 sets of pics one clearly shows a screwed up tube while the other show a tube in good shape but the pics aren't as through as the first set. In the ops pic's you can clearly see a bent swivel stud but then when you look at the sellers pic you can see the same stud and it isn''t bent. This is a tough call because both clearly believe they are right so who to beleive that is the question. I said once before that I think our feedback system could lead to people using it to force sellers to refund money on itmes that were fine when received but the screwed up by the buyer. Who is to say that the tube wasn't picture perfect when the op received it but then when he tried to install it he screwed it up through his own foolishness (we all know a few shade tree gunsmiths). So I'm not sure who to believe I look at the pics provided by the seller and the one thing he isn't hiding is the stud and to me it isn't bent anywhere near the extent as the one in the buyers pics if its bent at all. If you look at both pics of the stud one is clearly bent to ccw and the other if it is bent is bent slightly cw if at all. It almost looks like 2 different tubes. I feel for the mods on this one because the wrong guy could get screwed no matter what.

So now we can have a thread by the seller claiming the buyer returned a product in damaged condition.

To the seller if you truely believe you are right I would probably refund the money and make dang sure I never did business with the op again and from this point forward I would take plenty of pics with time stamps and news paper headlines to prove dates also include witness statements then people might believe you. Then start a feedback thread of my own.

All we have is your word just like all we have is his word the word of 2 men who have outstanding records in EE. If you notice I said I didn't know who to believe whose to say you didn't screw this on as soon as you received it then removed it and in the process screwed it up all we have is your word. Read what I said I see both sides here I'm not just taking your word or his. You are asking us to take your word when you both have excellent feedbacks. Whose to say it's not buyers remorse "hey I screwed up but I can get my money back" thats what I'm warning about. If the seller truely knows he sent you an excellent HG whats to stop him from starting a thread about the condition of the one he gets returned he has a pic also and I sorry but if the stud is bent the way your pics show it would show up in his pic also I can't see someone selling the HG without changing a stud that is bent as bad as the one you have with out expecting to get called on it and end up where we are now.

According to USPS tracking a notice was left .. (PO BOX) .. exhogflyer needs to pickup the handguard from the post office and send refund..

exhogflyer refused the package on 1-5-12 according to USPS tracking

My -1 for him remains in place!

It was kind of a bad idea to ship it back without some type of agreement.

I have a couple of questions / comments about the stud.

First off: exhogflyer - do you have a full-size uncompressed original of your photo from the ad? If you do, please post it somewhere. A quality image of the tube prior to shipping would be most helpful.

Now then - Is this stud free to rotate, or is it positively fixed in (radial) position? I ask, as in your photos, the hole runs transverse to the handguard tube - but in the seller's photo, it looks like the hole runs parallel to the tube.

If it's fixed in place, the direction of bend would tend to indicate that it may have been damaged by being borne upon during *removal* of the HG tube. See what I mean, counter-clockwise bend? I assume the thread is normal right-hand, yes?

Finally, if it's not fixed, do you think that the seller may have oriented the stud so as to intentionally conceal the bend - by rotating it such that it angled upwards? If so, that's why the seller shot the pic from such a high angle - the lower the angle of the photo, the more obvious the bend is.

the stud could rotate about 45 degrees or so either way before it stopped

yes, I believe it was intentionally photographed at an angle to conceal damage.




I've given him way too many opportunities to make it right ...

Well, I for one will steer clear of exhogflyer.

-1

He hasn't logged on since 01-02-12 5 days ago.

He needs to reply or get the hammer. He has done a poor job of defending himself while given the benefit of the doubt by many of the members here.

Those gouges could easily have been factory applied. RRA is definitely not above QC such issues. I don't know about you guys, but I use my rifles and they do get scratched and gouged. Beyond that, the swivel stud is ~$7 and 5 minutes to replace. Didn't the seller offer a $15 refund to cover this?

Eric, I bought what was advertised as like new condition item .. not a dicked up P.O.S.

If I wanted a beater grade handguard I would've bought one in an appropriate price range. Even after his offer of $15 .. that is still too much money for a beater.

The seller must have edited his post as I saw no mention of condition in the ad to which you linked. IMO it does look like the seller turned the stud so the bend would not be obvious, hence the swivel hole running parallel to the fore end, instead of perpendicular to it. The gouges obviously bother you far more than they would me and it looks like the seller is content to take the -1 feedback hit. I wonder if the seller will still send you the $15 rebate once you get the package returned to you by the USPS.

It was advertised as like new I swear I saw it in the ad when all this crap started. Seller isn't arguing that he said it was like new, he is saying buyer trashed it and is now trying to return it.

Staff can restore the post to its previous state.

That is how ai remember it also.

I can have staff look into it but the ad was Posted: 12/6/2011 2:32:35 PM EST and the only edit was Last Edit: 12/6/2011 6:31:26 PM EST by exhogflyer long before this thread was started.

ETA...Wait the title says...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_159/935933_RRA_free_float_handguard_LN_SPF_SPF.html .....Like New?

Yup that's where it was. Good catch.

Correct

I will add this fuel to the fire:
From the direction of the bend on the sling stud the stud was bent during removal(ahh lefty loosy). I have actually seen it from walk-ins here at the shop.........."Can you take this apart for me, I want to change to "this" but can't get "this" off"
And those hatchet marks look very much like channel locks (or like) and a rag was used.
I feel for ya bro

He's still active:

I say lock him out Untill he gives this thread his full attention

Yeh, WTF is this guy doing still logging on without making any effort to resolve this?!!

I'd like to know too ...

In fairness, he did make an effort. It just wasn't acceptable to the OP.

exhogflyer
Last Login Date: 1/10/2012 6:50:17 AM CST

PLEASE in all fairness, he hid the damages to the handguard in his picture.

In all fairness how do you know he hid the damage were you at the house when the op opened the box. Nope, so how do we know it was damaged by the seller and not the op? Answer we don't..........

The seller does need to respond here.

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