FAL Build pix (THe L1A1 has been saved from SF Member)

I know many of you have been following my posts on chopping a pristine L1A1 barrel with full chrome lining, so here's some resolution for you. A christmas miracle if you will!

Brief overview:
A FAL Files member got wind of what I wanted to do and traded me basically any metric parts I desired for my build in exchange for the inch stuff, and also offered me the chance to use his shop to build it myself. How could I say no?!
I used a Steyr front end and an Imbel lower. The bolt carrier is FN IIRC, and the bolt is Imbel. It currently has a US made buttstock and pistol grip, but I used the steel handguards since I liked the look of them. I reused all the compliance parts from the original L1A1 build and added two more for a measure of safety, the butt stock and pistol grip. When I cut it down I'll be using a steyr short flash hider or a trident flash hider from DSA for even more wiggle room in case I decide to reformat the gun later on in life.

I went from a .264 to a .265 locking shoulder. It closes on a "GO", requires 2 thumbs pressure to close on a "NO-GO", and refuses to even start closing on a "FIELD" gauge. The barrel indexed quite easily, I had read it can be a chore sometimes. Honestly, the only part of the build I was nervous about was headspacing, but having a guiding hand in it helped from the technical aspect and the mental (Did I do it right?!) aspect. Shes a great shooter, 60 rounds through her, a mix of South African, LC M80 ball, FGMM 168, and Wolf was problem free. Ejection was at about the 2 O'clock position, about 6 to 9 feet away. Recoil was quite light (I really expected more!).

Word of warning: I did not and do not care for historical correctness in regards to this build. I did it because I want a gun to chop down and use as a hunting rifle, range blaster, and a homeland defense rifle for what now appears to be the inevitable invasion by the new North Korean leader.

Nice looking rifle.

Nice weapon, that qualifies you for the Borat two thumbs up!

Looks good to me!

Thanks for not cutting up the inch stuff!

Very cool that you and another FAL guy could work something out. I bet you will be happy as soon as you get the brl cut to the length you desire. BTW, the wood on the L1A1is beautiful.

No problem, thanks for squaring me away with a threat of being kicked in the nuts.



Yes, I thought so. It was nice of him to open his shop up to a stanger and teach me. I learned step by step, we started around 7PM and didn't get done until 130AM. Long night, but it was a blast. I'm looking forward to cutting it down for sure, but I'm going to put it on paper first and see just what I'm dealing with. I think a DSA lightweight lower will be in order as well. Between cutting her down to 18 inchs, a lightweight lower, and a small scope or SPARC red dot, I think its going to end up a fairly light weight and handy build.

That's what internet friends are for!

That's a cool flash hider too. When i was rebuilding my L1A1 by friend (member FP1201) gave me two boxes of his FAL parts to sort through and use what ever I wanted. He had a couple of those hiders and they just look cool. Fp1201 hooked me up in a great way with FAL goodies. (read that as he's a bad enabler)

So now your going to cut down an even better and, just as rare STG barrel ?
I don't see where we made much progress here.


Go figure

Thats exatly what happened to me. I showed up and he had 5 different barrels/kits sitting out (all metric) and told me to grab what I wanted. Of course, some things ended up being swapped as we did some fit testing before committing to particular pieces. I've got one inch part left on it, the green carry handle.

I've read that the flash hider is called a Stoll, but I don't know how effective it is. I also don't know why it slips over half the freaking barrel! Only about 1 1/2 inchs hang past the muzzle... I may get rid of it for a Steyr short one when I start the 2nd phase of this project. He also had a belgian combo device, that really caught my eye, but the Stoll just looked....... MEAN.

I'm not going to cut the barrel myself, but I think I'm going to refinish the lower myself. I've done a few different guns with Alumahyde II and parkerizing, so its within my abilities. If I shoot it tomorrow I'll try to get a video of it!

Don't be a kill joy. I don't want a rifle that shoots like dog shit, so I avoided questionable barrels on purpose. I'm not investing time, money, and effort into an argy barrel just to chop it and find the bore is as concentric as a DPMS tube.

Look on the bright side, a WH stamped fully chrome lined barrel is now destined to be made into a nice L1A1 with a proper inch receiver, safe from my bubba-ish hands.

where's the bipod? I know many don't like it, but I really like mine, makes the hand hold that much nicer. Good looking rifle!

FP1201 had some cut down Steyr barrels he picked up at Knob. I was tempted but fortunately he sold them damn quick.

I really prefer the inch style so I'll try to keep my temptations in check. (FP1201 was "suggesting" I try a FAL for years and I finally got hooked)

IIRC my fal files join date is 2005 but I didn't get my first FAL until last deer season where I bought one in the falfiles marketplace.

The FAL seems pretty easy to get hooked on, I hope I like this one as much as my AR's and AK's. Have you take your FAL out for deer yet? I just loaded up some hunting type ammo to try in mine...

I told him to keep it. He only had one and it went to the G1 kit he had. I won't be using a bipod on it anyhow, I'm kind of a minimalist when it comes to battle rifles. I like the feel of the steel handguards though, I think they will stay on for now!

Thanks, she's my first!

Very nice, got a kit that I need to build.

Good for you...never apologize for this.

May I ask, why do you want to close on a no-go guage? I'm under the impression (and have done so on my own builds) that two thumb pressure should close on a go. The no-go should be just that....no go.

EDIT: Did a quick google. The idea is to allow it to close on a no go gauge, but not a field gauge. It allows for the use of various types of surplus ammo.

I'm not the guy that made that call, I was simply instructed to do it. The way it was explained to me was that it allows for the use of less than perfect ammunition. Basically, it is to ensure headspace isn't too tight or too loose. A happy medium if you will. The builder only had commercial .308 gauges, and IIRC that had something to do with it also... I may not be explaining this right, I'm far from an expert on headspacing.

I must say after firing though, it seems spot on. I can fire brown bear, wolf, South african, lake city ball, Federal goldmedal, and PPU with no issues.

DO whatever you please....it's not a serious collector anyways....but looking at it in the end, it is surprising that alot of Armies have bubba uped their sticks and they lived with it just fine.

Read the 6th paragraph here

I've read that before. Unconcerned. Below is a quote from George Gardner from Georgia Precision regarding headspace.

After reading FALfiles, it seems many,many FAL rifles close on a no go gauge. This includes DSA rifles. The more reading that I do, the more point to it not being an issue.

Awsome build. I have considered it but I do a lot of learning by watching. I use the manual and lots of Youtube. That is how I put a second heat pump in my house. Sadly there is very little youtube or other informative videos on FAL builds. Maybe if I one day do one I will put one together for others who do like me and learn that way. Until then my hats off to anyone who can build one.

I think he's perfect just barely closing on a commercial NO GO. Right where I'd want to be to use commercial and military ammo with absolutely no worries. In fact that's exactly how I set up my M1A with just the slightest feel on the commercial Clymer .308 NO GO gage. That way you're in the overlap zone between SAAMI and military.

Just barely closing with 2 thumb pressure on a commercial GO gage would be too tight.

ETA- the GO and NO GO gages are for rifle building and initial chambering depth. In use and wear in, the only gage after the build that matters is the FIELD gage. If it closes with no tension on the FIELD gage then it fails with long headspace. If you can even slightly feel the gage on closing with a stripped bolt and clean chamber than it still passes. The military FIELD gage is more generous than the commercial .308 FIELD gage. (They also don't reload their brass 6 times)

Thanks, it was a much more eloquent answer I'm still learnin'!

Your "quick google" was a little too quick. A new build should NOT close on a no go gauge. That is why it is called a no go gauge. The field gauge is for testing rifles that have been in service to ensure that they are safe to fire after having a bolt replaced at the unit level armory. You have cheated yourself out of a great deal of service life and performance by setting the head space so loose.

I have built well over a dozen FNFALs using 308 WIN head space specs and have yet to have on that would not feed any surplus ammo that I have. My surplus ammo includes:
South African M1A2 and R1M1
Portuguese BF and FNM
Australian MF and AFF
Argentine
Spanish Santa Barbara
Austrian HP
Indian OFV M80


At this point it is obvious that you have dug in your heels and will not be swayed from your position. I post this more for the other folks that might read this thread while doing research for their own build.

HBR, sorry I disagree.

Your bore will be shot several times over out by the time you wear things to the field gage.

If you're setting your headspace back a lot from firing, then you've got some serious ammo issues. (Other than the initial post build setback of a locking shoulder that some don't even have that)

if your headspace is moving faster than a glacier you got a pressure or metalurgy problem.

If you're "swapping bolts" you should be checking more than field gage. You should be ensuring you meet GO and NO GO, just like the initial build or perhaps Go and Field.

Holy cow I'm confused. HBR, my heels are not dug in on this issue. The more I read, the more I was certain it was done properly. Could you please explain your position?

Both you and steelonsteel impress me with your knowledge on this stuff, enlighten me! I know I'm going to wear out brass more quickly with a slightly looser headspace, but I'm not ruining anything, right?

You have misunderstood what I posted. I am not swapping bolts. The head space is not increasing on any of my rifles. When I mentioned swapping bolts, I was referring to the practice of replacing broken or otherwise unserviceable bolts at the unit armory level in actual military service. Under those circumstances, a field gauge is used to ensure that the rifle is safe to issue to a soldier in the field.

When a rifle is newly built, a field gauge is not used. GO and NO GO gauges are used. A GO gauge is used to ensure that the bolt face, when the bolt is in battery, is not too close to the datum line in the chamber.(insufficient head space) A NO GO gauge is used to ensure that the bolt face is not too distant from the datum line in the chamber.(Excessive head space)

Head space set at the maximum end of the spec will produce a poorer level of performance than setting the HS at the minimum end. It is unnecessary and gains the builder nothing. And if the civilian shooter wants to reload his/her brass, setting the HS at the long end makes this impractical at best and unsafe at worst.

If the field gauge was used properly, then the head space is safe to shoot. It is not optimum, but safe. But, on a new built rifle, it is like building a V8 motor and leaving off 2 of the 8 plug wires. Yes, it will run, but what is the point?

A rifle with long, but safe head space will never be an accurate shooter and if you want to reload, you are wrecking the brass for no reason.

ok, I think I know who has their heels dug in.



There's nothing unsafe about chambering a rifle so it's got a light touch on a NO GO. It's in saami spec (for an as new build) and hmmm it's also is in milspec for an as new build. Nothing whatsoever that you've lost lifespan or wear ability or some other such nonsense. FALfiles guys often recommend the overlap zone, the M14forum guys who were Army MTU and Marine Team Armorers recommend the overlap zone for an all purpose rifle.

It's a god damned FAL, a battle rifle that shoots 2-4 moa, with one sight fixed on the upper and the other affixed to the lower, connected by a hinge pin. They ain't match rifles and you aren't gaining much or any toward accuracy setting up at a 1.630/1.631 chamber length. I would hazard most are running milsurp ammo which I would say the majority of foreign ammo isn't even reloadable, it's one bang in in the brass bucket. In my minds eye you may as well set a battle rifle up for battle rifle specs and battle rifle ammo and not try to pretend it's a match rifle and that you can reload it for outstanding feats of accuracy.

If I recall correctly you and I've had this discussion before and you stated you can't set up brass for one rifle as you have too many in that caliber. For everyone else; You want tighter headspace relationship for your reloads, simple, don't have your die set to cam over on the shell holder which would push the shoulder back too far. The die threads in and it threads out, the change moves the resulting shoulder on the brass. Set the die up for the .003/4" free headspace. YOU ONLY WRECK THE BRASS IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING AND SET UP YOUR OWN GROSSLY OVERSIZED HEADSPACE ISSUE REPEATEDLY TO GARNER YOUR CASE HEAD SEPERATIONS. Run a 1.627" casing in a 1.637 chamber a few times and you will have a case head separation, which is still safer than not getting the bolt closed fully. Which is safer the rifle with a long chamber or the short one? I'd feel better shooting the long one as a little long is always less pressure than a little too tight where the pressure curve pops way up. That said, it's not long if it's in saami spec for chambering a rifle.

Now if I was chambering an M14/M1A for a NM rifle or DM rifle with a heavy barrel, McM stock and some PlasticSteelbedding compound, I would possibly go with a 1.631 or 1.632 chamber as I'd likely be running exclusively LC brass and Sierra or Nosler match bullets. I'd set my brass for free headspace for 0.002-0.003". There I would probably would see it on paper if headspace was running 5 thou.

I have my reasons and you have yours. Mine make sense.

Edite for spelling

- where your chamber is at you can safely run commercial spec ammo and military spec ammo. some batches of milspec ammo from some countries have run longer than commercial ammo should run, a very rare issue but it happens.
-where your chamber is at is loose enough to run more reliably when dirty or dusty. A tight match like chamber will have issues in the reliability department when you start throwing in carbon buildup, dust, etc. That's why milspec chambers are different, to tolerate that stuff.

You will only wear out the brass excessively if you don't match the ammo to the rifle. Setting up your sizing die is more than screwing it in and camming over on the shell holder for a FULL length size. You need to know where the die leaves the shoulder is at. I've had RCBS .308 dies that would crunch them down real small and a Redding die that just got them to 1.629/1.630". 2/3 thousandths free headspace is good for a bolt gun, a semi auto needs a little more for reliability 3/4 thousandths free headspace. Your brass will last just fine sizing to that size and firing out to the chamber and then sized back repeatedly. When you start getting to 5-8 thousandths free headspace between the brass shoulder and the chamber shoulder you're gonna get a seperation in a few to six reloads. The case head seperation will be above the case head where it thins out to case wall. What happens is your ejector is holding the small cartridge forward on the chamber shoulder, upon firing your brass seals at the neck and slams the case head that gap distance we were talking about until it stops on the bolt face (the button ejector yeilds easily). The brass has to stretch to make up the distance and it does it at the weakest point, where the case head thins out, about a half inch up from the extractor slot on the case head. Then you pick it up and size it again. Repeat the cycle and that brass keeeps getting thinned at that spot and eventually breaks. No real danger to you as normally your case headc is still making a seal holding pressure from your eyeballs. It might scar your chamber if you keep doing it. The buggaboo is when the front half of that case gets stuck in your chamber.

Use the right measuring tools to set up your dies. A sinclair or stoney point/hornady headspace kit will work perfectly. Measure your no go gage that just lightly touches, subtract 3-4 thou from that and that's your headspace length for your sized brass. Safe and accurate and reliable

ETA - read this for your education;

http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf

http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf

The guages for headspacing are given dead simple names so even the most inexperienced armorer will understand their purpose. NO GO means the bolt shouldnt "go". How is this so confusing? And what sort of scientific accurate measurement is "two thumbs pressure on a no go"? Please use real documentation instead of a "feeling". We're not baking bread here. When you see a crossing light that states DONT WALK, does that mean WALK? And the FIELD guage is a quick, dirty way to tell if the rifle is unsafe to shoot. It's called FIELD because it's used in the "field". ie, outside the armory. It is should never be considered when building a new rifle.
HBR is spot on with his assesment of the situation. Forget about reloading, you are simply reducing the potential of your rifle by setting the headspace as "worn" from new (if that makes any sense). His analogy of building a new V8 is correct. Or, in my opinion, it would be like building a new engine and using old rings. It'll work, but not as good as it should. I'm a humble builder with only 4 FALS under my belt so I don't claim to be the oracle of headspacing or FAL building for that matter. But what I can certainly tell the OP, is that my rifles are headspaced correctly, not closing on NO GO and being on the tight end of GO, as built new. I have shot hundreds of rounds of each: Australian, Brazilian, German, Spanish, U.S. WCC, Argentine, SA, Port, Malaysian and many more. No problems. Also, you should consider "set back". This is something that I noticed with my builds. After firing a few hundred rounds and rechecking headspace, the bolt would close easier on the GO guage than when first built. Not a scientific measurement but still within spec. For you, OP, after you fire a few hundred rounds, will your headspace be "one thumb pressure" on a NOGO? Or maybe something like "two pinky pressure on a NO GO"? OP, do it right. All you need are some pin guages, a hammer and a punch to pull out the locking shoulder and reinstall a correct one.

That rifle is fine, shoot the piss out of it. If you shoot it a lot check the spacing every now and again...the FAL was designed in such a way that you can eplace the locking shoulder pretty damned easily...wonder why...you can put a bigger LS in it as needed until it becomes excessive...but I am thinking you'll never shoot it that much unless maybe you are a millionaire, in which case it wouldn't matter you could just buy or build another. Some people on here just like to put down on ther people. I have 2 FALs and they are great fun. I have a bolt gun for hunting though as in my personal opinion the inherent accuracy of the gun is just a tadbit outside of my own PERSONAL preferences. Just mine, not yours. If you wanna hunt with it then I say go hunting and enjoy your rifle. It's yours not anyone else's. Check spent casings every now and again too. If you notice any stretching or splitting check it and replace the LS. Have fun and the thing looks great

Here's another small treatise on battle rifle headspace from Armalite.

www.armalite.com/images/Tech%20Notes/Tech%20Note%2011,%20Headspace%20020328.pdf

Take note, they omit the SAAMI NOGO measurement in their discussions, so they're kind of talking apples to oranges.

and another from Clint McKee who is sticks within SAAMI for he is quite happy with it in his experience (he's also match rifle oriented)

www.fulton-armory.com/%5Cfaqs%5CM14-FAQs%5C308.htm

OH, and any slight feel (no thumb pressure) on the NO GO gage is a passed test. It's under the gage 1.634" if a saami gage. If you're applying pressure to flex things it's obviously even smaller than 1.634".

Admittedly I have more experience with garands and M14/M1A's than FAL's.

OP, if you have the time by all means go over to the fal files website and check out the topics in their gunsmithing/build it yourself forum. You'll see that there is a more healthy discussion there with the same ideas; proponents of tighter headspace chasing the accuracy goal or longer brass life and proponents of a touch longer headspace in the overlap zone for more reliability with all types of ammo. Neither is incorrect or unsafe within reason.

Furthermore if you reload there's no reason you can't tailor your sized brass to your chamber if you want to play for accuracy reasons. For ME in the FAL I rate it as a battle rifle, with battle rifle accuracy not a target rifle, I normally feed mine non reloadable milsurp and toss the brass. If I was to reload I would be kind to the brass and size it to fit. The first firing will fireform it to your chamber. hell if you look at how they blow shoulders all around in wildcat cartridges when forming brass from another cartridge shape you won't worry so much about one ill fitted firing.

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