Archived Posts » 59,726,163
DSA question
10/30/2011 11:37:15 PM
DSA FAL Rail doesn't hold a zero!!!
I have a factory DSA Para and sighted it in with the LC M80 ball with good groups. The I took the DSA rail off with the scope still on it and cleaned my rifle. The scope (TA24 Trijicon) never came off the rail. Took it to the range today and shot the same ammo. At 50 yrds the rounds grouped well but were at least 4 inches off to the left. I wonder if the ARMS mount would be any better.
I have a factory DSA Para and sighted it in with the LC M80 ball with good groups. The I took the DSA rail off with the scope still on it and cleaned my rifle. The scope (TA24 Trijicon) never came off the rail. Took it to the range today and shot the same ammo. At 50 yrds the rounds grouped well but were at least 4 inches off to the left. I wonder if the ARMS mount would be any better.
10/30/2011 11:52:33 PM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
DSA FAL Rail doesn't hold a zero!!!
I have a factory DSA Para and sighted it in with the LC M80 ball with good groups. The I took the DSA rail off with the scope still on it and cleaned my rifle. The scope (TA24 Trijicon) never came off the rail. Took it to the range today and shot the same ammo. At 50 yrds the rounds grouped well but were at least 4 inches off to the left. I wonder if the ARMS mount would be any better.
DSA FAL Rail doesn't hold a zero!!!
I have a factory DSA Para and sighted it in with the LC M80 ball with good groups. The I took the DSA rail off with the scope still on it and cleaned my rifle. The scope (TA24 Trijicon) never came off the rail. Took it to the range today and shot the same ammo. At 50 yrds the rounds grouped well but were at least 4 inches off to the left. I wonder if the ARMS mount would be any better.
Do they claim that it would hold a zero after removal and reinstallation?
10/30/2011 11:56:21 PM
To be clear, you're saying that you removed the entire top cover/optics mount from the receiver, and then reinstalled it, and are now complaining that it didn't hold zero?
10/31/2011 12:00:08 AM
http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-Extreme-Duty-Scope-Mount––-620A/productinfo/620A/
whats the point of have a optic rail if it wont stay zeroed
It says zero movement but I guess what they should say is zero movement until you have to clean your rifle or ever take it off
very misleading
whats the point of have a optic rail if it wont stay zeroed
It says zero movement but I guess what they should say is zero movement until you have to clean your rifle or ever take it off
very misleading
10/31/2011 12:08:17 AM
It doesn't need to be removed to clean the rifle, just leave it on.
10/31/2011 12:10:46 AM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-Extreme-Duty-Scope-Mount––-620A/productinfo/620A/
whats the point of have a optic rail if it wont stay zeroed
It says zero movement but I guess what they should say is zero movement until you have to clean your rifle or ever take it off
very misleading
http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-Extreme-Duty-Scope-Mount––-620A/productinfo/620A/
whats the point of have a optic rail if it wont stay zeroed
It says zero movement but I guess what they should say is zero movement until you have to clean your rifle or ever take it off
very misleading
I hardly ever take mine off. When I do, I re-zero. It has 10 screws holding it on (if you have the same one I have). I've never heard of a mount with 10 screws (variables that affect exact location of rail) to hold an exact zero.
Very few mounts are made for holding a zero after being removed. Even the ones that do I prefer to at least check zero before I expect it to shoot dead on.
10/31/2011 12:40:57 AM
larue mounts do and I think arms do too
10/31/2011 12:42:03 AM
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
It doesn't need to be removed to clean the rifle, just leave it on.
It doesn't need to be removed to clean the rifle, just leave it on.
how do you get the bolt/carrier out?
10/31/2011 12:48:51 AM
Break open the rifle..... also I have removed mine a few times and reinstalled without having my zero wonder.
10/31/2011 12:51:26 AM
Originally Posted By MRJJ:
Break open the rifle..... also I have removed mine a few times and reinstalled without having my zero wonder.
Break open the rifle..... also I have removed mine a few times and reinstalled without having my zero wonder.
with a para how do you remove the pin at the back to remove the Bolt/carrier
I guess it coud be done since the pin comes out
10/31/2011 1:43:58 AM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
with a para how do you remove the pin at the back to remove the Bolt/carrier
I guess it coud be done since the pin comes out
Originally Posted By MRJJ:
Break open the rifle..... also I have removed mine a few times and reinstalled without having my zero wonder.
Break open the rifle..... also I have removed mine a few times and reinstalled without having my zero wonder.
with a para how do you remove the pin at the back to remove the Bolt/carrier
I guess it coud be done since the pin comes out
Push in, drop the pin down and pull everything out.
10/31/2011 2:06:54 AM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
how do you get the bolt/carrier out?
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
It doesn't need to be removed to clean the rifle, just leave it on.
It doesn't need to be removed to clean the rifle, just leave it on.
how do you get the bolt/carrier out?
The guide rod is removable. Open the rifle, push the guide rod forward 1/4" and pull it down. Hang on, it'll be under some spring pressure.
10/31/2011 2:45:08 AM
What you need is a way to mount the rail so that it can retain zero when being removed and replaced.
Perhaps some sort of metal frame with slots and rails that you can mount the rail to.
Perhaps some sort of metal frame with slots and rails that you can mount the rail to.
10/31/2011 5:56:35 AM
Originally Posted By JBlitzen:
What you need is a way to mount the rail so that it can retain zero when being removed and replaced.
Perhaps some sort of metal frame with slots and rails that you can mount the rail to.
I think that you might be right.What you need is a way to mount the rail so that it can retain zero when being removed and replaced.
Perhaps some sort of metal frame with slots and rails that you can mount the rail to.
10/31/2011 8:25:38 AM
10/31/2011 9:39:15 AM
Originally Posted By Ghetto:
This.
Wow...
10/31/2011 12:10:32 PM
Originally Posted By AEnemaBay:
This.
Wow...
Originally Posted By Ghetto:
This.
Wow...
Double "WOW"; I'm not handy at all and this thread makes me cry.....
10/31/2011 1:29:30 PM
Really? Are you freakin serious that you want a top cover (not a QD/Larue style mount) to hold a zero even though it has ten screws holding it to the receiver? Ten screws and you think it should just slap back on?
You don't need to take it off anyway for a para or standard.
Before you throw DSA under the bus, you may want to check the indian behind that arrow....
Just when you think it could not get any worse....
LD
You don't need to take it off anyway for a para or standard.
Before you throw DSA under the bus, you may want to check the indian behind that arrow....
Just when you think it could not get any worse....
LD
10/31/2011 1:38:36 PM
since it fits into a rail you would think it would hold a zero like the arms mount
you cant take the bolt out using an ARMS mount and it holds a zero when you take it off
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
it seems like the brackets would only hold it in place not change the zero
Its worth of letting those interestd in buying one of these that it will not hold a zero if removed and put back on
you cant take the bolt out using an ARMS mount and it holds a zero when you take it off
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
it seems like the brackets would only hold it in place not change the zero
Its worth of letting those interestd in buying one of these that it will not hold a zero if removed and put back on
10/31/2011 1:48:03 PM
Are you gonna take down your -1 now?
10/31/2011 1:50:38 PM
Still... mine and my buddies holds zero when removed and reinstalled. Either I am lucky or something is funny. Have to make sure you tighten it the same too.
10/31/2011 3:06:31 PM
Wow, just wow.
10/31/2011 3:14:48 PM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
I'm just curious why you would think it should hold zero when removed? It's blatantly obvious that the mount isn't designed to be removed/reinstalled on a regular basis. I haven't removed the DSA mount on my para in almost 10 years and I don't see any reason why I would. Those brackets do more than just "hold it in place". If you look at them, it should be quite apparent.
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Wow, just wow.
Wow, just wow.
Your avatar suits these three threads perfectly.
10/31/2011 3:23:27 PM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
since it fits into a rail you would think it would hold a zero like the arms mount
you cant take the bolt out using an ARMS mount and it holds a zero when you take it off
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
it seems like the brackets would only hold it in place not change the zero
Its worth of letting those interestd in buying one of these that it will not hold a zero if removed and put back on
since it fits into a rail you would think it would hold a zero like the arms mount
you cant take the bolt out using an ARMS mount and it holds a zero when you take it off
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
it seems like the brackets would only hold it in place not change the zero
Its worth of letting those interestd in buying one of these that it will not hold a zero if removed and put back on
Since when does "Zero Movement" = "Guaranteed to return to zero even after removal and re-installation"?????
Please take down the -1, seriously.
10/31/2011 3:28:39 PM
Originally Posted By Ghetto:
Indeed
10/31/2011 6:17:16 PM
Originally Posted By BIG_PAPA:
Since when does "Zero Movement" = "Guaranteed to return to zero even after removal and re-installation"?????
Please take down the -1, seriously.
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
since it fits into a rail you would think it would hold a zero like the arms mount
you cant take the bolt out using an ARMS mount and it holds a zero when you take it off
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
it seems like the brackets would only hold it in place not change the zero
Its worth of letting those interestd in buying one of these that it will not hold a zero if removed and put back on
since it fits into a rail you would think it would hold a zero like the arms mount
you cant take the bolt out using an ARMS mount and it holds a zero when you take it off
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
it seems like the brackets would only hold it in place not change the zero
Its worth of letting those interestd in buying one of these that it will not hold a zero if removed and put back on
Since when does "Zero Movement" = "Guaranteed to return to zero even after removal and re-installation"?????
Please take down the -1, seriously.
-1 removed but you can see how it can be misleading
I'll take the hit on this one
this is why I post it on here
to see the opinions of others are.
10/31/2011 6:51:16 PM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
-1 removed but you can see how it can be misleading
-1 removed but you can see how it can be misleading
No...I can't. DSA claims no movement of the mount when it's installed properly and they are right. It isn't their fault if you move the mount. If you removed the sights and reinstalled them, would you expect them to return to zero, as well?
11/1/2011 2:09:13 PM
I own a DSA FAL and I own a DSA scope mount. I would NEVER think it would ever return to zero when you unbolt it from the upper. Ever.
Its like the guy who used the lawn mower to trim his bushes and bitched that they didn't have a warning telling him not to use it for that purpose when he cut his fingers off. Some things you really don't need to tell folks. Common sense.
It is not designed to take on and off. Hence, it has ten bolts. Would you expect that the quad-rail on an AR would hold a zero with your iron sights if you took it off then put it back on? Same thing.
I guess my response to the first line in the OP should be....DUH!
LD
Its like the guy who used the lawn mower to trim his bushes and bitched that they didn't have a warning telling him not to use it for that purpose when he cut his fingers off. Some things you really don't need to tell folks. Common sense.
It is not designed to take on and off. Hence, it has ten bolts. Would you expect that the quad-rail on an AR would hold a zero with your iron sights if you took it off then put it back on? Same thing.
I guess my response to the first line in the OP should be....DUH!
LD
11/1/2011 7:51:47 PM
Common sense, you have, not.
11/2/2011 11:57:36 PM
I am quite truly flabbergasted at this posting, and the mindset of the OP. Seriously. I can't even begin to fathom.
I've got an SA58 w/ extended extreme mount, and an STG58 w/ the "regular" extreme mount. Never in a million years would I have expected them to hold a zero if they were removed and reinstalled.
I've got an SA58 w/ extended extreme mount, and an STG58 w/ the "regular" extreme mount. Never in a million years would I have expected them to hold a zero if they were removed and reinstalled.
11/3/2011 2:06:28 AM
It's DSA's fault that they didn't magically bend the laws of physics. Is that too much to ask?
11/3/2011 11:26:46 AM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
-1 removed but you can see how it can be misleading
I'll take the hit on this one
this is why I post it on here
to see the opinions of others are.
Originally Posted By BIG_PAPA:
Since when does "Zero Movement" = "Guaranteed to return to zero even after removal and re-installation"?????
Please take down the -1, seriously.
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
since it fits into a rail you would think it would hold a zero like the arms mount
you cant take the bolt out using an ARMS mount and it holds a zero when you take it off
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
it seems like the brackets would only hold it in place not change the zero
Its worth of letting those interestd in buying one of these that it will not hold a zero if removed and put back on
since it fits into a rail you would think it would hold a zero like the arms mount
you cant take the bolt out using an ARMS mount and it holds a zero when you take it off
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
it seems like the brackets would only hold it in place not change the zero
Its worth of letting those interestd in buying one of these that it will not hold a zero if removed and put back on
Since when does "Zero Movement" = "Guaranteed to return to zero even after removal and re-installation"?????
Please take down the -1, seriously.
-1 removed but you can see how it can be misleading
I'll take the hit on this one
this is why I post it on here
to see the opinions of others are.
"...to see the opinions of others are." Really? Your original post unambiguously claimed that a DSA product was defective. You did not ask for any opinions other than on the ARMS mount, with which you have no experience:
You wrote above:
DSA FAL Rail doesn't hold a zero!!!
I have a factory DSA Para and sighted it in with the LC M80 ball with good groups. The I took the DSA rail off with the scope still on it and cleaned my rifle. The scope (TA24 Trijicon) never came off the rail. Took it to the range today and shot the same ammo. At 50 yrds the rounds grouped well but were at least 4 inches off to the left. I wonder if the ARMS mount would be any better."
I have a factory DSA Para and sighted it in with the LC M80 ball with good groups. The I took the DSA rail off with the scope still on it and cleaned my rifle. The scope (TA24 Trijicon) never came off the rail. Took it to the range today and shot the same ammo. At 50 yrds the rounds grouped well but were at least 4 inches off to the left. I wonder if the ARMS mount would be any better."
You join this forum just barely one month ago and litter the FAL Discussion group with DSA-bashing-posts and requests for hand-holding in solving problems you could very easily, quickly, and directly address with a phone call to DSA. If you took that mature route first and it didn't solve your problem(s), I for one might be interested in reading your posts about it. As it is, you should be embarrassed by the level of immaturity you've shown in dealing with your issues. But hey, just consider this constructive criticism in trying to "help out a fellow arfcommer."
11/3/2011 1:45:16 PM
11/3/2011 1:47:51 PM
I see we have internet tough guys here too
11/3/2011 4:14:07 PM
11/3/2011 10:22:51 PM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
I see we have internet tough guys here too
I see we have internet tough guys here too
Not really...what you have here is a group of FAL owners, some of which post regularly and with absolute knowledge of the platform who freely give what they have learned over many years and rounds of experience I am grateful they allow me to listen and learn..
I personally own two FAL's one of which is a DSA I, opted for it based on HOW they handle a problem, not because they produce a perfect rifle (although its close). I believe you mentioned in this or one of the other threads your lack of understanding as to why the DSA rep would not engage in the open forum. One, I think they have more class than than that and two ...no offense but you came across a little strong in relationship to the alleged issue. I also have one of their scope mount top covers, it works perfectly. If I had an AK or a Galil with a similar set up I would never in a lifetime have the expectation of return to zero after dismounting, it just is not conducive to the design or mechanics. YMMV and all that
11/4/2011 12:12:47 PM
The DSA mount is a good robust mount, best for using a heavier scope on a FAL. It is not designed to return to zero if removed, it is designed to stay put once correctly fitted to your receiver.
The A.R.M.S. mount is best suited for mounting lighter weight scopes on a FAL and is designed to return to zero when re installed and correctly fitted to your reciever.
I have both, they both work well and, both have their place
The A.R.M.S. mount is best suited for mounting lighter weight scopes on a FAL and is designed to return to zero when re installed and correctly fitted to your reciever.
I have both, they both work well and, both have their place
11/4/2011 1:33:56 PM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
DSA FAL Rail doesn't hold a zero!!!
I have a factory DSA Para and sighted it in with the LC M80 ball with good groups. The I took the DSA rail off with the scope still on it and cleaned my rifle. The scope (TA24 Trijicon) never came off the rail. Took it to the range today and shot the same ammo. At 50 yrds the rounds grouped well but were at least 4 inches off to the left. I wonder if the ARMS mount would be any better.
DSA FAL Rail doesn't hold a zero!!!
I have a factory DSA Para and sighted it in with the LC M80 ball with good groups. The I took the DSA rail off with the scope still on it and cleaned my rifle. The scope (TA24 Trijicon) never came off the rail. Took it to the range today and shot the same ammo. At 50 yrds the rounds grouped well but were at least 4 inches off to the left. I wonder if the ARMS mount would be any better.
Yea that thing is screwed...i'll give you $20 for it...
11/4/2011 1:56:35 PM
I guess I assumed that DSAs rail was the same because its slides on like an ARMS which holds a zero. I guess thats what happens when you assume.
11/4/2011 9:47:01 PM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
I see we have internet tough guys here too
I see we have internet tough guys here too
Yeah, I've gotten shit from some here that are better than everyone else in their own minds. These internet experts that feel questions are beneath them like to take the opportunity to sling shit like a primate in order to feel good about themselves. Sift through the shit and you'll find your answers eventually.
11/4/2011 10:11:20 PM
Originally Posted By Surly:
Yeah, I've gotten shit from some here that are better than everyone else in their own minds. These internet experts that feel questions are beneath them like to take the opportunity to sling shit like a primate in order to feel good about themselves. Sift through the shit and you'll find your answers eventually.
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
I see we have internet tough guys here too
I see we have internet tough guys here too
Yeah, I've gotten shit from some here that are better than everyone else in their own minds. These internet experts that feel questions are beneath them like to take the opportunity to sling shit like a primate in order to feel good about themselves. Sift through the shit and you'll find your answers eventually.
I know. People talk tough but when they are FTF its a different story. Its OK though lots of those kinds around these days. I found out that I should not have assumed and asked questions befor buying. It still is a good product but I just dont like the idea that if you take it off you have to zero it again. And, I know you can clean it without removing the rail. Unfortunately, I like to get it very clean and I dont thin I can do that with this rail staying on.
11/5/2011 12:34:03 PM
"very clean" is not something a FAL needs to be. If you do proper maintenance and get the majority of gunk out of it each time it will function perfectly. I have actually reverted my FAL back to a "classic" configuration due to the fact that the scope mount adds quite a bit of weight and I shoot better with Irons then I do with a Aimpoint.
11/5/2011 7:18:10 PM
This is what they look like now and I may put an ARMS#4 rail on the OSW
11/5/2011 7:42:23 PM
Originally Posted By gmtech:
The DSA mount is a good robust mount, best for using a heavier scope on a FAL. It is not designed to return to zero if removed, it is designed to stay put once correctly fitted to your receiver.
The A.R.M.S. mount is best suited for mounting lighter weight scopes on a FAL and is designed to return to zero when re installed and correctly fitted to your reciever.
I have both, they both work well and, both have their place
The DSA mount is a good robust mount, best for using a heavier scope on a FAL. It is not designed to return to zero if removed, it is designed to stay put once correctly fitted to your receiver.
The A.R.M.S. mount is best suited for mounting lighter weight scopes on a FAL and is designed to return to zero when re installed and correctly fitted to your reciever.
I have both, they both work well and, both have their place
This makes me want to try an ARMS mount as well.
11/5/2011 8:47:34 PM
Originally Posted By motoguy:
This makes me want to try an ARMS mount as well.
Originally Posted By gmtech:
The DSA mount is a good robust mount, best for using a heavier scope on a FAL. It is not designed to return to zero if removed, it is designed to stay put once correctly fitted to your receiver.
The A.R.M.S. mount is best suited for mounting lighter weight scopes on a FAL and is designed to return to zero when re installed and correctly fitted to your reciever.
I have both, they both work well and, both have their place
The DSA mount is a good robust mount, best for using a heavier scope on a FAL. It is not designed to return to zero if removed, it is designed to stay put once correctly fitted to your receiver.
The A.R.M.S. mount is best suited for mounting lighter weight scopes on a FAL and is designed to return to zero when re installed and correctly fitted to your reciever.
I have both, they both work well and, both have their place
This makes me want to try an ARMS mount as well.
I'm glad I posted this so others can make a more informed decision
11/5/2011 10:35:28 PM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
since it fits into a rail you would think it would hold a zero like the arms mount
you cant take the bolt out using an ARMS mount and it holds a zero when you take it off
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
it seems like the brackets would only hold it in place not change the zero
Its worth of letting those interestd in buying one of these that it will not hold a zero if removed and put back on
since it fits into a rail you would think it would hold a zero like the arms mount
you cant take the bolt out using an ARMS mount and it holds a zero when you take it off
it does say zero movement on their web site. I think this is a little misleading
It should say that it will only hold a zero only if not removed
it seems like the brackets would only hold it in place not change the zero
Its worth of letting those interestd in buying one of these that it will not hold a zero if removed and put back on
This is why we cant have nice things.
11/5/2011 10:38:38 PM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
I'm glad I posted this so others can make a more informed decision
Originally Posted By motoguy:
This makes me want to try an ARMS mount as well.
Originally Posted By gmtech:
The DSA mount is a good robust mount, best for using a heavier scope on a FAL. It is not designed to return to zero if removed, it is designed to stay put once correctly fitted to your receiver.
The A.R.M.S. mount is best suited for mounting lighter weight scopes on a FAL and is designed to return to zero when re installed and correctly fitted to your reciever.
I have both, they both work well and, both have their place
The DSA mount is a good robust mount, best for using a heavier scope on a FAL. It is not designed to return to zero if removed, it is designed to stay put once correctly fitted to your receiver.
The A.R.M.S. mount is best suited for mounting lighter weight scopes on a FAL and is designed to return to zero when re installed and correctly fitted to your reciever.
I have both, they both work well and, both have their place
This makes me want to try an ARMS mount as well.
I'm glad I posted this so others can make a more informed decision
Hahaha, seriously dude?
11/5/2011 11:14:48 PM
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
I'm glad I posted this so others can make a more informed decision
I'm glad I posted this so others can make a more informed decision
11/6/2011 7:12:42 AM
Originally Posted By motoguy:
http://reason.com/assets/mc/dpowell/2011_08/obama-bummer.jpg
Originally Posted By M35A2Driver:
I'm glad I posted this so others can make a more informed decision
I'm glad I posted this so others can make a more informed decision
http://reason.com/assets/mc/dpowell/2011_08/obama-bummer.jpg
I don't know why, but that made me literally laugh out loud.
11/6/2011 11:51:16 PM
That was awesome.