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Rhodie Kit Question... UPDATE 10/31 New Pics In OP
10/12/2011 8:23:41 AM
Morning guys,
I placed a WTB thread over on falfiles and got a email last night. The gentleman has a rhodie kit with little/no paint on it that he wants to sell. He believes it is mostly complete but will check this weekend. He will also be sending me pictures along with a price.
I know the price of the kit depends on condition, type, number of parts, etc but I was curious what this kit is worth? and what should I offer him?
I will post more info when I get it so please check back.
Thanks
UPDATE 10/31
Here are some pics
I placed a WTB thread over on falfiles and got a email last night. The gentleman has a rhodie kit with little/no paint on it that he wants to sell. He believes it is mostly complete but will check this weekend. He will also be sending me pictures along with a price.
I know the price of the kit depends on condition, type, number of parts, etc but I was curious what this kit is worth? and what should I offer him?
I will post more info when I get it so please check back.
Thanks
UPDATE 10/31
Here are some pics
10/12/2011 10:57:37 AM
Brl condition, pinging on the backplate of the lower receiver, how many parts have matching if any numbers, broken off carry handle, type of gas plug, Type I/II/III rifle, South African manufacture or a different one. A lot of different things but the kits are fastly drying up and not available.
10/12/2011 3:58:44 PM
He might not know but there's a decent chance it would also be a Chilean or Argentinian kit. Careful I was burned a few years ago getting a Rhodie kit.
10/12/2011 9:02:38 PM
Originally Posted By Sumoj275:
Brl condition, pinging on the backplate of the lower receiver, how many parts have matching if any numbers, broken off carry handle, type of gas plug, Type I/II/III rifle, South African manufacture or a different one. A lot of different things but the kits are fastly drying up and not available.
Brl condition, pinging on the backplate of the lower receiver, how many parts have matching if any numbers, broken off carry handle, type of gas plug, Type I/II/III rifle, South African manufacture or a different one. A lot of different things but the kits are fastly drying up and not available.
Thanks for the reply,
Yeah I am not sure what kind of kit it is but hopefully I will know this weekend.
10/12/2011 9:03:54 PM
Originally Posted By flan7211:
He might not know but there's a decent chance it would also be a Chilean or Argentinian kit. Careful I was burned a few years ago getting a Rhodie kit.
He might not know but there's a decent chance it would also be a Chilean or Argentinian kit. Careful I was burned a few years ago getting a Rhodie kit.
I guess I am not familiar with the chilean or argentinian kits. Are those bad? How did you get burned?
10/12/2011 10:06:48 PM
Originally Posted By tothemax:
I guess I am not familiar with the chilean or argentinian kits. Are those bad? How did you get burned?
Originally Posted By flan7211:
He might not know but there's a decent chance it would also be a Chilean or Argentinian kit. Careful I was burned a few years ago getting a Rhodie kit.
He might not know but there's a decent chance it would also be a Chilean or Argentinian kit. Careful I was burned a few years ago getting a Rhodie kit.
I guess I am not familiar with the chilean or argentinian kits. Are those bad? How did you get burned?
There were 6 countries that produced metric pattern FNFALs. Belgium, Austria, Israel, South Africa, Brazil, and Argentina. All were produced to FN production standards and all of them produced high quality rifles. The Chilean rifles were actually made in Brazil. These rifles were the source of the vast majority of IMBEL kits that were imported in the late 1990's.
The most worn of the kits were by far the South African kits. The least worn, and the highest quality, were the Austrian StG 58 kits. The problem with the South African kits is that they saw so much actual combat service that most had very worn barrels. The commonly called "Rhodesian" kits were primarily from South Africa, but Rhodesia procured rifles from several sources. The most common that we see here are South African and Brazilian.
The Argentine rifles are considered some of the finest examples of F A L rifles made.
The only "bad" surplus F A L parts are those that have excessive wear, damage, or have been modified by low skilled hobbyists.
10/12/2011 10:17:50 PM
Originally Posted By Hebrew_Battle_Rifle:
There were 6 countries that produced metric pattern FNFALs. Belgium, Austria, Israel, South Africa, Brazil, and Argentina. All were produced to FN production standards and all of them produced high quality rifles. The Chilean rifles were actually made in Brazil. These rifles were the source of the vast majority of IMBEL kits that were imported in the late 1990's.
The most worn of the kits were by far the South African kits. The least worn, and the highest quality, were the Austrian StG 58 kits. The problem with the South African kits is that they saw so much actual combat service that most had very worn barrels. The commonly called "Rhodesian" kits were primarily from South Africa, but Rhodesia procured rifles from several sources. The most common that we see here are South African and Brazilian.
The Argentine rifles are considered some of the finest examples of F A L rifles made.
The only "bad" surplus F A L parts are those that have excessive wear, damage, or have been modified by low skilled hobbyists.
Originally Posted By tothemax:
I guess I am not familiar with the chilean or argentinian kits. Are those bad? How did you get burned?
Originally Posted By flan7211:
He might not know but there's a decent chance it would also be a Chilean or Argentinian kit. Careful I was burned a few years ago getting a Rhodie kit.
He might not know but there's a decent chance it would also be a Chilean or Argentinian kit. Careful I was burned a few years ago getting a Rhodie kit.
I guess I am not familiar with the chilean or argentinian kits. Are those bad? How did you get burned?
There were 6 countries that produced metric pattern FNFALs. Belgium, Austria, Israel, South Africa, Brazil, and Argentina. All were produced to FN production standards and all of them produced high quality rifles. The Chilean rifles were actually made in Brazil. These rifles were the source of the vast majority of IMBEL kits that were imported in the late 1990's.
The most worn of the kits were by far the South African kits. The least worn, and the highest quality, were the Austrian StG 58 kits. The problem with the South African kits is that they saw so much actual combat service that most had very worn barrels. The commonly called "Rhodesian" kits were primarily from South Africa, but Rhodesia procured rifles from several sources. The most common that we see here are South African and Brazilian.
The Argentine rifles are considered some of the finest examples of F A L rifles made.
The only "bad" surplus F A L parts are those that have excessive wear, damage, or have been modified by low skilled hobbyists.
Copy. Thanks for that great info.
10/16/2011 9:25:53 AM
Im still waiting for pictures, hopefully they show up today.
One other question for you guys, Did the rhodies ever come with any sort of optics attached? Or were they all open sight weapons?
One other question for you guys, Did the rhodies ever come with any sort of optics attached? Or were they all open sight weapons?
10/17/2011 8:01:39 AM
Ok here is the info.
R marked selector switch.Lower also has MU markings stamped ser# and RA# scribed in. Bolt and carrier have matching #'s.strong rifling bright and has a few small pits
R marked selector switch.Lower also has MU markings stamped ser# and RA# scribed in. Bolt and carrier have matching #'s.strong rifling bright and has a few small pits
10/17/2011 2:29:32 PM
From th3e quick look it looks like you need the grenade sight gas plug, a carry handle, and a flash hider. From the pics I would love to have that kid and build it onto a nice SA/Rhody clone.
10/17/2011 2:54:50 PM
What is it worth? Also what does the mu stand for in the serial #?
10/17/2011 3:46:33 PM
Missing Parts:
Hand guards and hand guard screw
Charge handle lug and pin
Carry handle (most were removed or broken by Rhodiesians)
Flash hider
Grenade sight gas plug
Locking shoulder
Gas regulator spring
Gas tube pin
Magazine catch spring
It appears to be a first contract Belgian made South African rifle. If so it will (or could) have the serial number in front of the lock lever, have internal lightening cuts in the lower receiver, 'R' marked selector, FN piron proof marks on the bolt and bolt carrier and single digits in a partial rectangle on various pieces. Another clue is the vertical lock lever. If it is FN Belgian made then it has had the following changes:
The original lugged unthreaded barrel has been replaced with newer threaded version, they almost all were. It should have had the grenade sight gas plug installed at that time.
The original type C wood butt stock has been replaced with a type D plastic version, again almost all were. It looks to be a long South African stock, which is the correct upgrade.
The 'R' marked selector has had the stop ground off to enable full auto.
IMHO if it were complete and had lots of paint it could go for $375-$425. It's missing, at least in the pic, $125-$150 worth of parts and has shed 99.9%-all of it's paint. I do not think mixing South African and Belgian parts hurts the value. Just my .02 cents based on one fuzzy pic.
Hand guards and hand guard screw
Charge handle lug and pin
Carry handle (most were removed or broken by Rhodiesians)
Flash hider
Grenade sight gas plug
Locking shoulder
Gas regulator spring
Gas tube pin
Magazine catch spring
It appears to be a first contract Belgian made South African rifle. If so it will (or could) have the serial number in front of the lock lever, have internal lightening cuts in the lower receiver, 'R' marked selector, FN piron proof marks on the bolt and bolt carrier and single digits in a partial rectangle on various pieces. Another clue is the vertical lock lever. If it is FN Belgian made then it has had the following changes:
The original lugged unthreaded barrel has been replaced with newer threaded version, they almost all were. It should have had the grenade sight gas plug installed at that time.
The original type C wood butt stock has been replaced with a type D plastic version, again almost all were. It looks to be a long South African stock, which is the correct upgrade.
The 'R' marked selector has had the stop ground off to enable full auto.
IMHO if it were complete and had lots of paint it could go for $375-$425. It's missing, at least in the pic, $125-$150 worth of parts and has shed 99.9%-all of it's paint. I do not think mixing South African and Belgian parts hurts the value. Just my .02 cents based on one fuzzy pic.
10/17/2011 5:08:55 PM
Some more thoughts:
The MU is a South African acceptance or manufacturing mark, nice touch on a Rhodie kit.
If it was made in Belgium the lower will be a type I, if it was made in South Africa the lower will be a type II and the serial number will be under the beehive on the frame lock lever.
I don't recognize the gas block off hand, it doesn't have the common lightening cuts but it does match the barrel in finish wear so they are a pair.
Is there a front sight, plate and spring in the gas block? If not plan on $25 for those three pieces.
See if the owner can find more of the parts, he may have grabbed what was handy and not done a complete inventory check.
The parts that are missing can be correctly filled in with most any metric parts. The Rhodiesians used whatever they could get and it's possible to see Belgian, Brazilian, Austrian, etc. parts on one rifle. I would draw the line at putting inch parts on it but I'm sure that happened too.
The MU is a South African acceptance or manufacturing mark, nice touch on a Rhodie kit.
If it was made in Belgium the lower will be a type I, if it was made in South Africa the lower will be a type II and the serial number will be under the beehive on the frame lock lever.
I don't recognize the gas block off hand, it doesn't have the common lightening cuts but it does match the barrel in finish wear so they are a pair.
Is there a front sight, plate and spring in the gas block? If not plan on $25 for those three pieces.
See if the owner can find more of the parts, he may have grabbed what was handy and not done a complete inventory check.
The parts that are missing can be correctly filled in with most any metric parts. The Rhodiesians used whatever they could get and it's possible to see Belgian, Brazilian, Austrian, etc. parts on one rifle. I would draw the line at putting inch parts on it but I'm sure that happened too.
10/17/2011 5:57:08 PM
MU is a south african mark. Its rare to have these marks on the lower they were usually taken off as there was an arms embargo on Rhodesia. A lower with an MU mark and an RA number is rare.
here is the correct gas plug: http://www.dsarms.com/Flip-Up-Gas-Plug-Grenade-Sights-Used末-110G/productinfo/110G/
Looks to be a good kit! Value between $375 to $450
Make sure to get the type II receiver for a Rhodie! No carry handle or cut if off, its a rifle not a purse.
here is the correct gas plug: http://www.dsarms.com/Flip-Up-Gas-Plug-Grenade-Sights-Used末-110G/productinfo/110G/
Looks to be a good kit! Value between $375 to $450
Make sure to get the type II receiver for a Rhodie! No carry handle or cut if off, its a rifle not a purse.
10/17/2011 8:02:14 PM
Excellent info guys. I love learning about these rifles.
I will contact the seller and see if he can find any more parts. Right now he is asking 350$ + shipping.
I will contact the seller and see if he can find any more parts. Right now he is asking 350$ + shipping.
10/17/2011 8:04:13 PM
Originally Posted By PeoplesRepublicOfIL:
MU is a south african mark. Its rare to have these marks on the lower they were usually taken off as there was an arms embargo on Rhodesia. A lower with an MU mark and an RA number is rare.
here is the correct gas plug: http://www.dsarms.com/Flip-Up-Gas-Plug-Grenade-Sights-Used末-110G/productinfo/110G/
Looks to be a good kit! Value between $375 to $450
Make sure to get the type II receiver for a Rhodie! No carry handle or cut if off, its a rifle not a purse.
MU is a south african mark. Its rare to have these marks on the lower they were usually taken off as there was an arms embargo on Rhodesia. A lower with an MU mark and an RA number is rare.
here is the correct gas plug: http://www.dsarms.com/Flip-Up-Gas-Plug-Grenade-Sights-Used末-110G/productinfo/110G/
Looks to be a good kit! Value between $375 to $450
Make sure to get the type II receiver for a Rhodie! No carry handle or cut if off, its a rifle not a purse.
Lol. Copy that....
10/17/2011 9:04:49 PM
He has a flash hider. No other parts.
Is it worth 350? or should I offer less
Is it worth 350? or should I offer less
10/18/2011 8:57:26 AM
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped me ID this kit. I am going to contact him this AM about purchasing the kit.
10/18/2011 10:04:28 PM
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
Missing Parts:
Hand guards and hand guard screw
Charge handle lug and pin
Carry handle (most were removed or broken by Rhodiesians)
Flash hider
Grenade sight gas plug
Locking shoulder
Gas regulator spring
Gas tube pin
Magazine catch spring
It appears to be a first contract Belgian made South African rifle. If so it will (or could) have the serial number in front of the lock lever, have internal lightening cuts in the lower receiver, 'R' marked selector, FN piron proof marks on the bolt and bolt carrier and single digits in a partial rectangle on various pieces. Another clue is the vertical lock lever. If it is FN Belgian made then it has had the following changes:
The original lugged unthreaded barrel has been replaced with newer threaded version, they almost all were. It should have had the grenade sight gas plug installed at that time.
The original type C wood butt stock has been replaced with a type D plastic version, again almost all were. It looks to be a long South African stock, which is the correct upgrade.
The 'R' marked selector has had the stop ground off to enable full auto.
IMHO if it were complete and had lots of paint it could go for $375-$425. It's missing, at least in the pic, $125-$150 worth of parts and has shed 99.9%-all of it's paint. I do not think mixing South African and Belgian parts hurts the value. Just my .02 cents based on one fuzzy pic.
Missing Parts:
Hand guards and hand guard screw
Charge handle lug and pin
Carry handle (most were removed or broken by Rhodiesians)
Flash hider
Grenade sight gas plug
Locking shoulder
Gas regulator spring
Gas tube pin
Magazine catch spring
It appears to be a first contract Belgian made South African rifle. If so it will (or could) have the serial number in front of the lock lever, have internal lightening cuts in the lower receiver, 'R' marked selector, FN piron proof marks on the bolt and bolt carrier and single digits in a partial rectangle on various pieces. Another clue is the vertical lock lever. If it is FN Belgian made then it has had the following changes:
The original lugged unthreaded barrel has been replaced with newer threaded version, they almost all were. It should have had the grenade sight gas plug installed at that time.
The original type C wood butt stock has been replaced with a type D plastic version, again almost all were. It looks to be a long South African stock, which is the correct upgrade.
The 'R' marked selector has had the stop ground off to enable full auto.
IMHO if it were complete and had lots of paint it could go for $375-$425. It's missing, at least in the pic, $125-$150 worth of parts and has shed 99.9%-all of it's paint. I do not think mixing South African and Belgian parts hurts the value. Just my .02 cents based on one fuzzy pic.
Just a few questions. Why are the R selectors sought after? Also Am I going to have any issues if it is ground off and could switch over to FA?? Issues as in unwanted trouble?
BTW: I bought the kit for 325 shipped..
10/18/2011 10:25:31 PM
R just have the hook ground off. originally they had a stop on the outside to allow only semi auto. take off the hook and it allow it to rotate down father for FA. I don't know where you got the info that R are worth more. without the safety sear, rotating it down will just make the hammer follow. If it fires, its a slam fire and if you re not lucky on a slam fire, you might lose your face.
Also, unless done legally, a FA conversion will mean pokey time.
all the missing parts are should not be too hard to find.
Also, unless done legally, a FA conversion will mean pokey time.
all the missing parts are should not be too hard to find.
10/18/2011 10:39:53 PM
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
R just have the hook ground off. originally they had a stop on the outside to allow only semi auto. take off the hook and it allow it to rotate down father for FA. I don't know where you got the info that R are worth more. without the safety sear, rotating it down will just make the hammer follow. If it fires, its a slam fire and if you re not lucky on a slam fire, you might lose your face.
Also, unless done legally, a FA conversion will mean pokey time.
all the missing parts are should not be too hard to find.
R just have the hook ground off. originally they had a stop on the outside to allow only semi auto. take off the hook and it allow it to rotate down father for FA. I don't know where you got the info that R are worth more. without the safety sear, rotating it down will just make the hammer follow. If it fires, its a slam fire and if you re not lucky on a slam fire, you might lose your face.
Also, unless done legally, a FA conversion will mean pokey time.
all the missing parts are should not be too hard to find.
Someone posted that the R selector was more desirable. Dont remember where but I do remember seeing it.
Reason I ask about the second part is I am not familiar with the internals of the FAL and when someone mentioned FA I didnt want to get into trouble. I want to be legal on this and avoid any unwanted bad attention.
10/18/2011 11:09:59 PM
to get FA, the receiver would need a FA ejector block, cut for such and safety sear. having a FA ejector block and sear nothing without the cut. Do the cut and you are into NFA territory.
Get a Coonan,slap it together with the right parts and that kit will be revived.
Get a Coonan,slap it together with the right parts and that kit will be revived.
10/18/2011 11:54:47 PM
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
to get FA, the receiver would need a FA ejector block, cut for such and safety sear. having a FA ejector block and sear nothing without the cut. Do the cut and you are into NFA territory.
Get a Coonan,slap it together with the right parts and that kit will be revived.
to get FA, the receiver would need a FA ejector block, cut for such and safety sear. having a FA ejector block and sear nothing without the cut. Do the cut and you are into NFA territory.
Get a Coonan,slap it together with the right parts and that kit will be revived.
Exactly how does one slap a rifle together?
10/19/2011 8:09:21 AM
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
to get FA, the receiver would need a FA ejector block, cut for such and safety sear. having a FA ejector block and sear nothing without the cut. Do the cut and you are into NFA territory.
Get a Coonan,slap it together with the right parts and that kit will be revived.
to get FA, the receiver would need a FA ejector block, cut for such and safety sear. having a FA ejector block and sear nothing without the cut. Do the cut and you are into NFA territory.
Get a Coonan,slap it together with the right parts and that kit will be revived.
Copy. I don't have the knowledge or the want to do that but thanks for the clarification.
Is coonan the best receiver to go with? Any other brands?
10/19/2011 12:22:46 PM
Originally Posted By tothemax:
Copy. I don't have the knowledge or the want to do that but thanks for the clarification.
Is coonan the best receiver to go with? Any other brands?
Copy. I don't have the knowledge or the want to do that but thanks for the clarification.
Is coonan the best receiver to go with? Any other brands?
First determine if the lower is type I or II and decide if you want to match it or go for the mutt look. If you want to match it and it's a type I both Coonan and DSA make the type I upper. If it is a type II then DSA is the only choice, Coonan may offer a type II in the future. For the mutt look you can get whatever you want and that includes type III, Imbel is a great choice for a type III but doesn't look right AFAIC.
There are several good receivers out there, DSA and Coonan are good, as is Imbel but Imbels are type III only. Others have made decent receivers at times and then lasped into junk runs as well as some real consistant garbage. I reccomend you stick with DSA or Coonan until you've researched the whole FAL scene and get up to speed on good/bad receivers.
10/19/2011 11:35:27 PM
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
First determine if the lower is type I or II and decide if you want to match it or go for the mutt look. If you want to match it and it's a type I both Coonan and DSA make the type I upper. If it is a type II then DSA is the only choice, Coonan may offer a type II in the future. For the mutt look you can get whatever you want and that includes type III, Imbel is a great choice for a type III but doesn't look right AFAIC.
There are several good receivers out there, DSA and Coonan are good, as is Imbel but Imbels are type III only. Others have made decent receivers at times and then lasped into junk runs as well as some real consistant garbage. I reccomend you stick with DSA or Coonan until you've researched the whole FAL scene and get up to speed on good/bad receivers.
Originally Posted By tothemax:
Copy. I don't have the knowledge or the want to do that but thanks for the clarification.
Is coonan the best receiver to go with? Any other brands?
Copy. I don't have the knowledge or the want to do that but thanks for the clarification.
Is coonan the best receiver to go with? Any other brands?
First determine if the lower is type I or II and decide if you want to match it or go for the mutt look. If you want to match it and it's a type I both Coonan and DSA make the type I upper. If it is a type II then DSA is the only choice, Coonan may offer a type II in the future. For the mutt look you can get whatever you want and that includes type III, Imbel is a great choice for a type III but doesn't look right AFAIC.
There are several good receivers out there, DSA and Coonan are good, as is Imbel but Imbels are type III only. Others have made decent receivers at times and then lasped into junk runs as well as some real consistant garbage. I reccomend you stick with DSA or Coonan until you've researched the whole FAL scene and get up to speed on good/bad receivers.
Is there a good web page that lists the differences Between receivers/lowers with pictures and descriptions?
10/20/2011 1:52:17 AM
The differences are mainly the lightening cuts. I did these up so you can see the difference. For good explanations go to the falfiles and search for posts by Hoot G, he has posted a lot on it. Be prepared to be confused because it appears all South African (Israeli also) made FALs were type 1.5, or in other words they had a combination of type I and type II cuts. A type II upper fits a South African made lower better but looks historically incorrect. Good luck. 
10/20/2011 8:15:15 AM
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
The differences are mainly the lightening cuts. I did these up so you can see the difference. For good explanations go to the falfiles and search for posts by Hoot G, he has posted a lot on it. Be prepared to be confused because it appears all South African (Israeli also) made FALs were type 1.5, or in other words they had a combination of type I and type II cuts. A type II upper fits a South African made lower better but looks historically incorrect. Good luck.
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac214/kclark4895/ReceiverTypes002.jpg
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac214/kclark4895/ReceiverTypes004.jpg
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac214/kclark4895/ReceiverTypes003.jpg
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac214/kclark4895/ReceiverTypes005.jpg
The differences are mainly the lightening cuts. I did these up so you can see the difference. For good explanations go to the falfiles and search for posts by Hoot G, he has posted a lot on it. Be prepared to be confused because it appears all South African (Israeli also) made FALs were type 1.5, or in other words they had a combination of type I and type II cuts. A type II upper fits a South African made lower better but looks historically incorrect. Good luck.
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac214/kclark4895/ReceiverTypes002.jpg
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac214/kclark4895/ReceiverTypes004.jpg
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac214/kclark4895/ReceiverTypes003.jpg
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac214/kclark4895/ReceiverTypes005.jpg
Thanks a bunch for all the pics. I am a member over on falfiles but mostly lurk around. I need to spend more time over there so I can learn more about these rifles.
Thanks again for taking those pictures.
10/30/2011 9:35:22 PM
The Kit came in the mail today. Man I can't wait to start collecting parts for it!
10/30/2011 11:28:02 PM
Pics man, gotta share some pics.
10/31/2011 8:14:03 AM
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
Pics man, gotta share some pics.
Pics man, gotta share some pics.
I know! camera is charging after a long football weekend. I will post pics asap.
10/31/2011 9:58:07 PM
Originally Posted By tothemax:
I know! camera is charging after a long football weekend. I will post pics asap.
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
Pics man, gotta share some pics.
Pics man, gotta share some pics.
I know! camera is charging after a long football weekend. I will post pics asap.
Ok I have some pics up in my OP.
I tried too look for markings and take pictures of them. If there is anything you can tell me about them that would be awesome.
10/31/2011 10:29:14 PM
looks like a nice kit. Type 2 reciever. cotter pin in the selector. they put them there to keep troops from losing the selector.
If you were closer, I would barrel it for you.
If you were closer, I would barrel it for you.
10/31/2011 10:36:04 PM
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
looks like a nice kit. Type 2 reciever. cotter pin in the selector. they put them there to keep troops from losing the selector.
If you were closer, I would barrel it for you.
looks like a nice kit. Type 2 reciever. cotter pin in the selector. they put them there to keep troops from losing the selector.
If you were closer, I would barrel it for you.
Appreciate the offer!
Any help with the markings? How about the maker of the barrel?
10/31/2011 10:37:52 PM
Also I have a question regarding the flash suppressor. Why does it have threads on the inside? I tried to take a picture of it but it came out blurry. I can retry if needed.
10/31/2011 11:28:15 PM
Hmm... ok some observations.
It's missing the charge handle lug, mag catch spring, locking shoulder, regulator spring/clip and handguards. Not bad.
Lower is type II built in South Africa by Pretoria/ Armscor.
Barrel is Argentine, definetly not South African or Belgian. No lightning cuts on the gas block.
Bolt is FN, bolt carrier is FN marked and German proofed.
No grenade sight gas plug as usually found on SA and RA rifles.
Lock lever is vertical, SA/RA rifles are usually the horizontal type because the verts popped open sometimes firing grenades and Rhodies loved their grenades.
Recoil plate looks good, hardly any dings.
Are there any RA or ZA numbers etched or eletro penciled on?
Overall looks great, very representitive of a Rhodiesian War rifle.Aa solid foundation for a nice Rhodie. Have fun with it!
It's missing the charge handle lug, mag catch spring, locking shoulder, regulator spring/clip and handguards. Not bad.
Lower is type II built in South Africa by Pretoria/ Armscor.
Barrel is Argentine, definetly not South African or Belgian. No lightning cuts on the gas block.
Bolt is FN, bolt carrier is FN marked and German proofed.
No grenade sight gas plug as usually found on SA and RA rifles.
Lock lever is vertical, SA/RA rifles are usually the horizontal type because the verts popped open sometimes firing grenades and Rhodies loved their grenades.
Recoil plate looks good, hardly any dings.
Are there any RA or ZA numbers etched or eletro penciled on?
Overall looks great, very representitive of a Rhodiesian War rifle.Aa solid foundation for a nice Rhodie. Have fun with it!
10/31/2011 11:29:28 PM
Flash supressor threads are for a screw in blank device, a training aid.
11/1/2011 2:03:42 AM
at least it's not an Indian.
Far the worst kits I have ever seen.
Far the worst kits I have ever seen.
11/1/2011 2:14:29 AM
at least it's not an Indian.
Far the worst kits I have ever seen.
Far the worst kits I have ever seen.
11/1/2011 7:34:49 AM
Looks like a mixmaster kit from everywhere. The bolt is dated 57'. IIRC SA didn't go with the FAL until 60'
11/1/2011 8:37:08 AM
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
Hmm... ok some observations.
It's missing the charge handle lug, mag catch spring, locking shoulder, regulator spring/clip and handguards. Not bad.
Lower is type II built in South Africa by Pretoria/ Armscor.
Barrel is Argentine, definetly not South African or Belgian. No lightning cuts on the gas block.
Bolt is FN, bolt carrier is FN marked and German proofed.
No grenade sight gas plug as usually found on SA and RA rifles.
Lock lever is vertical, SA/RA rifles are usually the horizontal type because the verts popped open sometimes firing grenades and Rhodies loved their grenades.
Recoil plate looks good, hardly any dings.
Are there any RA or ZA numbers etched or eletro penciled on?
Overall looks great, very representitive of a Rhodiesian War rifle.Aa solid foundation for a nice Rhodie. Have fun with it!
Hmm... ok some observations.
It's missing the charge handle lug, mag catch spring, locking shoulder, regulator spring/clip and handguards. Not bad.
Lower is type II built in South Africa by Pretoria/ Armscor.
Barrel is Argentine, definetly not South African or Belgian. No lightning cuts on the gas block.
Bolt is FN, bolt carrier is FN marked and German proofed.
No grenade sight gas plug as usually found on SA and RA rifles.
Lock lever is vertical, SA/RA rifles are usually the horizontal type because the verts popped open sometimes firing grenades and Rhodies loved their grenades.
Recoil plate looks good, hardly any dings.
Are there any RA or ZA numbers etched or eletro penciled on?
Overall looks great, very representitive of a Rhodiesian War rifle.Aa solid foundation for a nice Rhodie. Have fun with it!
Thanks for the info.
Yes there are electro penciled numbers on the other side of the lower.
If this lower was made in SA why would it have a vertical locking lever instead of a horizontal? It is just an odd ball? My other RA marked lower has a horizontal LL.
11/1/2011 8:37:18 AM
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
Flash supressor threads are for a screw in blank device, a training aid.
Flash supressor threads are for a screw in blank device, a training aid.
Copy, Thank you
11/1/2011 8:38:48 AM
Originally Posted By nwobhm:
Looks like a mixmaster kit from everywhere. The bolt is dated 57'. IIRC SA didn't go with the FAL until 60'
Looks like a mixmaster kit from everywhere. The bolt is dated 57'. IIRC SA didn't go with the FAL until 60'
Interesting. Thanks
11/1/2011 12:24:41 PM
Originally Posted By tothemax:
Thanks for the info.
Yes there are electro penciled numbers on the other side of the lower.
If this lower was made in SA why would it have a vertical locking lever instead of a horizontal? It is just an odd ball? My other RA marked lower has a horizontal LL.
Thanks for the info.
Yes there are electro penciled numbers on the other side of the lower.
If this lower was made in SA why would it have a vertical locking lever instead of a horizontal? It is just an odd ball? My other RA marked lower has a horizontal LL.
I believe that falls under rule #1 of the Rhodie Rifle Book:
#1. No rules
I see a couple of reasons there. First it was made that way since the serial # would be covered by a horizontal lever. Who knows why? Special request? Prototype? Made that way because they received 5,000 vertical levers from the Austrians? Can't answer that one for you.
The other thing is they used whatever they could get ahold of, argy barrels, german bolt carriers, brazilian gas plugs, belgian locking levers, etc.
Are the electro penciled #s RA or ZA?
11/1/2011 2:14:20 PM
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
I believe that falls under rule #1 of the Rhodie Rifle Book:
#1. No rules
I see a couple of reasons there. First it was made that way since the serial # would be covered by a horizontal lever. Who knows why? Special request? Prototype? Made that way because they received 5,000 vertical levers from the Austrians? Can't answer that one for you.
The other thing is they used whatever they could get ahold of, argy barrels, german bolt carriers, brazilian gas plugs, belgian locking levers, etc.
Are the electro penciled #s RA or ZA?
Originally Posted By tothemax:
Thanks for the info.
Yes there are electro penciled numbers on the other side of the lower.
If this lower was made in SA why would it have a vertical locking lever instead of a horizontal? It is just an odd ball? My other RA marked lower has a horizontal LL.
Thanks for the info.
Yes there are electro penciled numbers on the other side of the lower.
If this lower was made in SA why would it have a vertical locking lever instead of a horizontal? It is just an odd ball? My other RA marked lower has a horizontal LL.
I believe that falls under rule #1 of the Rhodie Rifle Book:
#1. No rules
I see a couple of reasons there. First it was made that way since the serial # would be covered by a horizontal lever. Who knows why? Special request? Prototype? Made that way because they received 5,000 vertical levers from the Austrians? Can't answer that one for you.
The other thing is they used whatever they could get ahold of, argy barrels, german bolt carriers, brazilian gas plugs, belgian locking levers, etc.
Are the electro penciled #s RA or ZA?
If i remember correctly, ra
11/1/2011 6:26:47 PM
Originally Posted By tothemax:
Thanks for the info.
Yes there are electro penciled numbers on the other side of the lower.
If this lower was made in SA why would it have a vertical locking lever instead of a horizontal? It is just an odd ball? My other RA marked lower has a horizontal LL.
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
Hmm... ok some observations.
It's missing the charge handle lug, mag catch spring, locking shoulder, regulator spring/clip and handguards. Not bad.
Lower is type II built in South Africa by Pretoria/ Armscor.
Barrel is Argentine, definetly not South African or Belgian. No lightning cuts on the gas block.
Bolt is FN, bolt carrier is FN marked and German proofed.
No grenade sight gas plug as usually found on SA and RA rifles.
Lock lever is vertical, SA/RA rifles are usually the horizontal type because the verts popped open sometimes firing grenades and Rhodies loved their grenades.
Recoil plate looks good, hardly any dings.
Are there any RA or ZA numbers etched or eletro penciled on?
Overall looks great, very representitive of a Rhodiesian War rifle.Aa solid foundation for a nice Rhodie. Have fun with it!
Hmm... ok some observations.
It's missing the charge handle lug, mag catch spring, locking shoulder, regulator spring/clip and handguards. Not bad.
Lower is type II built in South Africa by Pretoria/ Armscor.
Barrel is Argentine, definetly not South African or Belgian. No lightning cuts on the gas block.
Bolt is FN, bolt carrier is FN marked and German proofed.
No grenade sight gas plug as usually found on SA and RA rifles.
Lock lever is vertical, SA/RA rifles are usually the horizontal type because the verts popped open sometimes firing grenades and Rhodies loved their grenades.
Recoil plate looks good, hardly any dings.
Are there any RA or ZA numbers etched or eletro penciled on?
Overall looks great, very representitive of a Rhodiesian War rifle.Aa solid foundation for a nice Rhodie. Have fun with it!
Thanks for the info.
Yes there are electro penciled numbers on the other side of the lower.
If this lower was made in SA why would it have a vertical locking lever instead of a horizontal? It is just an odd ball? My other RA marked lower has a horizontal LL.
The South African R1s were made originally with a vertical locking lever. Eventually they switched to the horizontal one and some of the earlier ones also had the vertical lever replaced by a horizontal one (and those are often remarked since the original markings would be obscured), for the reasons mentioned (the receiver would unlock when launching rifle grenades).
Regarding an upper, I'd go with an Argentine receiver if you could find one or the closest equivalent to match the barrel (Coonan makes that style, although not necessary with an SA lower if I understand the differences correctly). The rifle as disassembled prior to import, assuming the parts are from the same rifle as disassembled, likely had an Argentine or South African upper (which would have to be custom if you wanted to match that, since no one makes that style of receiver; a Type 3 would have to be cut to that configuration); really, anything could go, though, depending on what needed replacing, but that is most likely. That assumes the parts are all from one of the Zimbabwean imports and that the distributor or someone along the way to getting the kit to you did not jumble up the parts kit. Some vendors kept the kits together or, if they were shipped packaged by part, made a serious effort to match what they could. Others didn't bother in the latter case or just jumbled everything together for whatever reason if they were shipped as complete kits.
11/1/2011 7:18:39 PM
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
The South African R1s were made originally with a vertical locking lever. Eventually they switched to the horizontal one and some of the earlier ones also had the vertical lever replaced by a horizontal one (and those are often remarked since the original markings would be obscured), for the reasons mentioned (the receiver would unlock when launching rifle grenades).
Regarding an upper, I'd go with an Argentine receiver if you could find one or the closest equivalent to match the barrel (Coonan makes that style, although not necessary with an SA lower if I understand the differences correctly). The rifle as disassembled prior to import, assuming the parts are from the same rifle as disassembled, likely had an Argentine or South African upper (which would have to be custom if you wanted to match that, since no one makes that style of receiver; a Type 3 would have to be cut to that configuration); really, anything could go, though, depending on what needed replacing, but that is most likely. That assumes the parts are all from one of the Zimbabwean imports and that the distributor or someone along the way to getting the kit to you did not jumble up the parts kit. Some vendors kept the kits together or, if they were shipped packaged by part, made a serious effort to match what they could. Others didn't bother in the latter case or just jumbled everything together for whatever reason if they were shipped as complete kits.
Originally Posted By tothemax:
Thanks for the info.
Yes there are electro penciled numbers on the other side of the lower.
If this lower was made in SA why would it have a vertical locking lever instead of a horizontal? It is just an odd ball? My other RA marked lower has a horizontal LL.
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
Hmm... ok some observations.
It's missing the charge handle lug, mag catch spring, locking shoulder, regulator spring/clip and handguards. Not bad.
Lower is type II built in South Africa by Pretoria/ Armscor.
Barrel is Argentine, definetly not South African or Belgian. No lightning cuts on the gas block.
Bolt is FN, bolt carrier is FN marked and German proofed.
No grenade sight gas plug as usually found on SA and RA rifles.
Lock lever is vertical, SA/RA rifles are usually the horizontal type because the verts popped open sometimes firing grenades and Rhodies loved their grenades.
Recoil plate looks good, hardly any dings.
Are there any RA or ZA numbers etched or eletro penciled on?
Overall looks great, very representitive of a Rhodiesian War rifle.Aa solid foundation for a nice Rhodie. Have fun with it!
Hmm... ok some observations.
It's missing the charge handle lug, mag catch spring, locking shoulder, regulator spring/clip and handguards. Not bad.
Lower is type II built in South Africa by Pretoria/ Armscor.
Barrel is Argentine, definetly not South African or Belgian. No lightning cuts on the gas block.
Bolt is FN, bolt carrier is FN marked and German proofed.
No grenade sight gas plug as usually found on SA and RA rifles.
Lock lever is vertical, SA/RA rifles are usually the horizontal type because the verts popped open sometimes firing grenades and Rhodies loved their grenades.
Recoil plate looks good, hardly any dings.
Are there any RA or ZA numbers etched or eletro penciled on?
Overall looks great, very representitive of a Rhodiesian War rifle.Aa solid foundation for a nice Rhodie. Have fun with it!
Thanks for the info.
Yes there are electro penciled numbers on the other side of the lower.
If this lower was made in SA why would it have a vertical locking lever instead of a horizontal? It is just an odd ball? My other RA marked lower has a horizontal LL.
The South African R1s were made originally with a vertical locking lever. Eventually they switched to the horizontal one and some of the earlier ones also had the vertical lever replaced by a horizontal one (and those are often remarked since the original markings would be obscured), for the reasons mentioned (the receiver would unlock when launching rifle grenades).
Regarding an upper, I'd go with an Argentine receiver if you could find one or the closest equivalent to match the barrel (Coonan makes that style, although not necessary with an SA lower if I understand the differences correctly). The rifle as disassembled prior to import, assuming the parts are from the same rifle as disassembled, likely had an Argentine or South African upper (which would have to be custom if you wanted to match that, since no one makes that style of receiver; a Type 3 would have to be cut to that configuration); really, anything could go, though, depending on what needed replacing, but that is most likely. That assumes the parts are all from one of the Zimbabwean imports and that the distributor or someone along the way to getting the kit to you did not jumble up the parts kit. Some vendors kept the kits together or, if they were shipped packaged by part, made a serious effort to match what they could. Others didn't bother in the latter case or just jumbled everything together for whatever reason if they were shipped as complete kits.
Copy. Thanks for the info
11/1/2011 7:42:44 PM
Use whatever receiver you like. It's highly unlikely that your kit was in service as a complete rifle. Someone assembled it from loose parts.
11/1/2011 8:57:13 PM
I'm defiantly going with a coonan type II receiver.
11/1/2011 9:11:27 PM
Originally Posted By highratmaster:
Missing Parts:
Hand guards and hand guard screw
Charge handle lug and pin
Carry handle (most were removed or broken by Rhodiesians)
Flash hider
Grenade sight gas plug
Locking shoulder
Gas regulator spring
Gas tube pin
Magazine catch spring
It appears to be a first contract Belgian made South African rifle. If so it will (or could) have the serial number in front of the lock lever, have internal lightening cuts in the lower receiver, 'R' marked selector, FN piron proof marks on the bolt and bolt carrier and single digits in a partial rectangle on various pieces. Another clue is the vertical lock lever. If it is FN Belgian made then it has had the following changes:
The original lugged unthreaded barrel has been replaced with newer threaded version, they almost all were. It should have had the grenade sight gas plug installed at that time.
The original type C wood butt stock has been replaced with a type D plastic version, again almost all were. It looks to be a long South African stock, which is the correct upgrade.
The 'R' marked selector has had the stop ground off to enable full auto.
IMHO if it were complete and had lots of paint it could go for $375-$425. It's missing, at least in the pic, $125-$150 worth of parts and has shed 99.9%-all of it's paint. I do not think mixing South African and Belgian parts hurts the value. Just my .02 cents based on one fuzzy pic.
Missing Parts:
Hand guards and hand guard screw
Charge handle lug and pin
Carry handle (most were removed or broken by Rhodiesians)
Flash hider
Grenade sight gas plug
Locking shoulder
Gas regulator spring
Gas tube pin
Magazine catch spring
It appears to be a first contract Belgian made South African rifle. If so it will (or could) have the serial number in front of the lock lever, have internal lightening cuts in the lower receiver, 'R' marked selector, FN piron proof marks on the bolt and bolt carrier and single digits in a partial rectangle on various pieces. Another clue is the vertical lock lever. If it is FN Belgian made then it has had the following changes:
The original lugged unthreaded barrel has been replaced with newer threaded version, they almost all were. It should have had the grenade sight gas plug installed at that time.
The original type C wood butt stock has been replaced with a type D plastic version, again almost all were. It looks to be a long South African stock, which is the correct upgrade.
The 'R' marked selector has had the stop ground off to enable full auto.
IMHO if it were complete and had lots of paint it could go for $375-$425. It's missing, at least in the pic, $125-$150 worth of parts and has shed 99.9%-all of it's paint. I do not think mixing South African and Belgian parts hurts the value. Just my .02 cents based on one fuzzy pic.
I am going to start looking for parts on arfcom and Fal files.
Is this still a decent starting list of parts? Does it mater what make/ country of origin the parts are or should I get whatever I can?
11/2/2011 12:05:51 AM
I would think a WTB ad on the FALfiles market place would be very successful. Lots of guys there like to help newbies and will probably make you a good deal on the whole package. Post a pic and they'll help you match what you have.
As far as origin of parts to complete your kit, pretty much anything goes. I'd stay away from inch parts but most any metric part will be right at home. Brazilian are usually the most common and cheapest but are of high quality.
Hand guards and hand guard screw
Charge handle lug and pin
Carry handle (most were removed or broken by Rhodiesians) 末末末末末末optional
Flash hider
Grenade sight gas plug 末末末末-optional
Locking shoulder 末末末末末末末末wait until you have an upper reciver to headspace to
Gas regulator spring
Gas tube pin
Magazine catch spring
Don't forget magazines and ammo!
As far as origin of parts to complete your kit, pretty much anything goes. I'd stay away from inch parts but most any metric part will be right at home. Brazilian are usually the most common and cheapest but are of high quality.
Hand guards and hand guard screw
Charge handle lug and pin
Carry handle (most were removed or broken by Rhodiesians) 末末末末末末optional
Flash hider
Grenade sight gas plug 末末末末-optional
Locking shoulder 末末末末末末末末wait until you have an upper reciver to headspace to
Gas regulator spring
Gas tube pin
Magazine catch spring
Don't forget magazines and ammo!
