Question about married DIAS AR15's

So I like to postulate about various different legal conundrums when it comes to class three stuff. One thing that occurred to me was the question of what part in a married DIAS AR15 is the MG? Obviously the receiver is the registered part and it’s technically still a MG with out the DIAS and I realize that you can no longer convert these receivers to accept a traditional sear. But what about the DIAS? If you remove it from the gun like say during cleaning are you creating a situation where you would technically be in possession of two MG's with one of them (the DIAS) being unregistered? I know you cannot move the sear to another gun but what about replacing it with an identical one if it broke and then destroying the original? I would think that the ATF would say no but really how different is its function mechanically if not legally from a traditional M16 auto sear? As I see a married sear gun is more of a hassle than of any benefit or am I missing something?

Well, according to ATF, an unserialled DIAS in an unmodified AR should not have been registered in the first place, because that combination is not legal.

So rather than being a hassle, I would consider it more like a hand grenade with a deteriorating pin ....

so whats the deal with the legality of a transfer on this?

married dias gun

Third paragraph of the letter is quite clear, especially the last sentence.

It's in the NFA Registry, so absent any input from Legal Branch, the examiners would approve a transfer, same as for any other MG.

Regarding the letter above from Tech Branch ...

Converting ARs by registering the receiver and, instead of modifying it, dropping in an unserialled DIAS was a common method of legally converting ARs prior to May 19, 1986. ATF was certainly aware of the practice at the time.

Then ATF wrote the above letter in 2005, saying in hindsight that such receivers "should not have been registered as machine guns, since the receiver itself was not modified. These registrations as "receivers" are improper, as the receivers of such items do not meet the Federal defintion of machinegun..."

So what is the status of these "married" guns with sears? You've got me on that one. We have NFA Tech Branch's 2005 opinion, in the letter. But Tech Branch is simply weighing in on, well, the technical aspect. Unless or until NFA Legal Branch decides take up the issue, we won't know.

Such conversions are registered machine guns. Beyond that, you need to decide.

Your Mileage May Vary.

The S/N in the photo, under Reubens name on the linked gun has a 3 letter suffix on it.
Could the Dias be marked with the reciever S/N with the suffix, and the reciever noted on the form as "additional marking", this "marrying" it?
I don't know, just askin'.

Gonna guess, and this is just a guess, the dude who f1'd it way back when added his initials to the SN of the Colt gun's SN and registered it with that "new" SN.

It is married because the DIAS is not an RDIAS. "additional marking" does not marry it.

This might be a stupid question, but if the receiver is registered couldn't someone with a gun in this configuration just drill the autosear hole, then put in a m16 FCG and destroy the DIAS? Effectively the same thing without being a legal land mine.

Not legally - if it wasn't done that way originally, ATF forbids it now, as they would consider drilling the new hole to be creating ANOTHER, NEW machinegun. The time when that could legally have been done, according to them, is before acquiring and installing the unserialled DIAS. As a practical matter it could probably be gotten away with IF ATF has never documented that particular gun, and the original converter didn't send in notes with the Form 1 detailing what method was going to be used.

ATF definitely does have notes in their database on the configurations and conversion methods used to make many machineguns both F1 by individuals and F2 by SOTs.
Do they have notes on all of them? probably not.
Yours in particular? Who knows?

Ya wanna roll the dice, one throw for your $10k machinegun or nothing?

So what happens when an "improperly registered" machinegun comes to the attention of ATF?

I mean, if it's in the NFTR ATF would have a hard time charging someone for an unregistered MG...

"Your honor, my client has right here as Defense Exhibit A an approval form and paid tax stamp from the ATF specifying that the firearm in question is indeed a registered machinegun, and perfectly legal for my client to own".

There are about 50 owners of transferable MGs who have valid Form 4's and had them confiscated by ATF right now, which are scheduled for destruction after the trial is over.

A valid Form 4 only proves you filed the paperwork and paid the tax –– it does not mean the firearm is legal. Sigh.

Yep, an approved F4 shields the possessor from criminal liability for the status of the firearm in question, absent proof of intentional fraud on their part in its approval. It does not guarantee you get to keep the toy, or protect the $$$ value of your investment.

lovecraftfan, that is exactly what Jeff Schramm wanted to do when he wrote the letters I posted above. A client had a married DIAS/receiver, and he asked Jeff to drill the receiver. And ATF, in the letter, stated that that would be manufacture of a new, unregistered post-sample machine gun.

Circuits is correct, as always: If you try to go ahead and do it, you run the risk of loss of your transferable MG and potential prosecution for possession of an unregistered MG. That's 10 years in federal prison and a fine of up to $250,000.

FWIW, when Congress passed the Hughes Act in 1986, it made all civilian ownership of machine guns illegal. However, it also said that if you a machine gun was legally owned and registered prior to May 19, 1986, you could not be prosecuted for it. That does not mean a that possession of a registered pre-1986 machine gun is legal –– you are still committing a felony, under federal law; Congress just said that LE is prohibited from punishing you for doing so.

The details of that precise wording is important, because ATF and the federal courts have interpreted it to mean that the NFA Registry was, in effect, frozen on May 19, 1986. That means you cannot replace, or modify functionally, the registered part of the machine gun –– the receiver must remain the same piece of metal, functioning in the exact same manner, as it did on May 19.

If you own an Uzi SMG that was converted by slotting a full-auto bolt to clear the semi's blocking bar, you cannot remove the bar today to allow your registered-receiver Uzi to accept milspec FA parts.

You cannot install an FNC sear in an AR15, or a SCAR, even if it will work –– because the FNC sear was not designed to function that way prior to May 19.

The list goes on and on ... but the bottom line, according to the courts and ATF, is that if you buy a transferable MG, it must remain functionally the same as it was on May 19, 1986. Modifying it is de facto manufacture of a new, unregistered machine gun, subject to seizure as contraband and prosecution of the possessor.

Copyright © 1996 - 2013 :: AR15.Com LLC :: All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.