AR15.Com Archives
 M5 DBM in B&C medalist stock
echap  [Member]
12/9/2013 3:17:31 PM EST
I ordered one of the PTG DBM last week for my rem 700SPS with B&C Medalist stock. The PTG website said it was drop in, but it's not even close to dropping into my stock. My stock has all of the aluminum in it, so I think it's beyond hacking away at it with a Dremel tool, at least that I feel comfortable with. I started looking for someone to do it on a mill and get it right. I ran across stockys and they mentioned to not install M% on my stock.

I am new to bolt gun and guess I got spoiled on AR's. Does anyone have a direction for me to go? I sure would like to get this installed in my stock and would sure think that someone would be able to do it.

Eric

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ziarifleman  [Team Member]
12/9/2013 3:23:25 PM EST
Badger Ord, GAP, and several others will do a bottom mill for you.
estwing223  [Team Member]
12/9/2013 3:29:20 PM EST
Sent my b&c stock to badger ordnance and they machined the stock for there bottom metal. We'll worth it.
echap  [Member]
12/10/2013 2:42:54 AM EST
Is the dbm that I got from ptg the same as Badger? Is the inletting standard?
karaba23  [Member]
12/10/2013 3:15:04 AM EST
I have the PTG bottom metal and had a B&C stock sent out to Badger for inletting (M5 pattern). The inlet supported the PTG system with no problems. AICs, Accurate, and Alpha mags all locked up and fed properly. Send your stock into Badger, you will be good to go. Got my stock back the same week I shipped. Shipped on a Monday got it back Friday.

Eight_Ring  [Team Member]
12/10/2013 12:17:06 PM EST
[quote]Originally Posted By echap:
Is the dbm that I got from ptg the same as Badger? Is the inletting standard?[/quote]

Which bottom metal did you order?

There are several versions of bottom metal--both "Stealth" and the "flush-fit", each also comes in either M5 Style (which requires inletting) or a BDL verison, which should be a drop-in fit for any BDL stock.

To get the BDL drop-in version you would have wanted to order THIS....

echap  [Member]
12/10/2013 2:15:38 PM EST
I got the M5 flush mount. It said it was drop in when I ordered it.

I am going to send it off to Badger to get it milled out. Sounds like they do a inletting run every 10 days and only costs $75.

I still think it is a good deal, it's very nice metal working. I am not planning on doing any shooting anytime soon anyways.

E
Green_Canoe  [Member]
12/11/2013 9:23:58 AM EST
[quote]Originally Posted By Eight_Ring:
[quote]Originally Posted By echap:
Is the dbm that I got from ptg the same as Badger? Is the inletting standard?[/quote]

Which bottom metal did you order?

There are several versions of bottom metal--both "Stealth" and the "flush-fit", each also comes in either M5 Style (which requires inletting) or a BDL verison, which should be a drop-in fit for any BDL stock.

To get the BDL drop-in version you would have wanted to order THIS....

[/quote]

Unfortunately, the PTG site is very stingy with their info. I would have purchased already if they had taken the time to add 4 or 5 sentences describing their products so I could figure out the differences on my own.

So here's where I'm confused: Why would I not buy the BDL version and avoid the inletting charges? I'm assuming it might use a non-standard mag mag box but there is nothing indicating this w/o comparing part numbers on the PTG site. (Even then, I don't know how to tell what a standard AI box is.)
Eight_Ring  [Team Member]
12/11/2013 5:36:06 PM EST
[quote]Originally Posted By Green_Canoe:
[quote]Originally Posted By Eight_Ring:
[quote]Originally Posted By echap:
Is the dbm that I got from ptg the same as Badger? Is the inletting standard?[/quote]

Which bottom metal did you order?

There are several versions of bottom metal--both "Stealth" and the "flush-fit", each also comes in either M5 Style (which requires inletting) or a BDL verison, which should be a drop-in fit for any BDL stock.

To get the BDL drop-in version you would have wanted to order THIS....

[/quote]

Unfortunately, the PTG site is very stingy with their info. I would have purchased already if they had taken the time to add 4 or 5 sentences describing their products so I could figure out the differences on my own.

So here's where I'm confused: Why would I not buy the BDL version and avoid the inletting charges? I'm assuming it might use a non-standard mag mag box but there is nothing indicating this w/o comparing part numbers on the PTG site. (Even then, I don't know how to tell what a standard AI box is.)[/quote]

You're right--PT&G assumes that somehow an average buyer (their average buyer, anyway) would actually know the difference between an AI MK I mag (which is 5 rounds, single-stack) and an AICS mag, which is wider, and requires M5-style inletting.

You would pay $75 extra to get the M5-spec inletting done IF you wanted to be able to use either 5- or 10-round AICS mags.

The only way to know any of this is to read.

The guy who owns PT&G and who makes decisions about product offerings posts a lot over at Sniper's Hide, and the guys over there speak highly of the product and I trusted what they had to say.

I bought the BDL drop-in because loading into the ejection port (under a 20 MOA base) is kinduva major pain in the ass, and the BDL drop-in was a $145 solution instead of a $225 solution--oh, and comparable bottom metal costs like $300 for Badger Ordnance, etc. LINK... and the long and short of it is I just don't have the pockets for that.


ETA: I don't know if you already saw this thread or not...Best Value In Detachable Bottom Metal...

A guy with a Hogue stock relayed that he had to do some fitting to the composite material to ge the DBM to seat. I've been busy, and haven't tried mine yet.
Green_Canoe  [Member]
12/12/2013 3:53:20 AM EST
[quote]Originally Posted By Eight_Ring:
SNIP

[/quote]

Thank you. I think I see my problem: I don't hang out on Sniper's Hide.

So how obscure is the AI MK I mag vs. the AICS? Should I be concerned about availability issues in the future with the AI MK I?
Eight_Ring  [Team Member]
12/12/2013 7:45:05 AM EST
[quote]Originally Posted By Green_Canoe:
[quote]Originally Posted By Eight_Ring:
SNIP

[/quote]

Thank you. I think I see my problem: I don't hang out on Sniper's Hide.

So how obscure is the AI MK I mag vs. the AICS? Should I be concerned about availability issues in the future with the AI MK I?[/quote]

Apparently PT&G has a contract with AI to supply the MK I mags (per PT&G on Sniper's Hide).

That said, I'd buy a backup (or two) if funds permit, and maybe price used mags on gunroker or in the forums

If you already have an excellent stock (so you don't mind committing to milling it) AND money is not an impediment , hey, don't fuck around--go M5-style and AICS mags straight out of the gate, and send your stock off to have it milled. $75--oh well. It is money well spent upgrading your rifle.

Of course I'm not there, and this stock will probably get replaced--so the DBM fit makes a lot of sense for me, and I haven't dropped $75 into milling on a stock I will one day no longer own.

I can also drop this DBM onto any other short-action 700, or sell it for pretty much what I paid for it.

My .02--YMMV.

Good luck.
Green_Canoe  [Member]
12/12/2013 8:32:54 AM EST
[quote]Originally Posted By Eight_Ring:
[quote]Originally Posted By Green_Canoe:
[quote]Originally Posted By Eight_Ring:
SNIP

[/quote]

Thank you. I think I see my problem: I don't hang out on Sniper's Hide.

So how obscure is the AI MK I mag vs. the AICS? Should I be concerned about availability issues in the future with the AI MK I?[/quote]

Apparently PT&G has a contract with AI to supply the MK I mags (per PT&G on Sniper's Hide).

That said, I'd buy a backup (or two) if funds permit, and maybe price used mags on gunroker or in the forums

If you already have an excellent stock (so you don't mind committing to milling it) AND money is not an impediment , hey, don't fuck around--go M5-style and AICS mags straight out of the gate, and send your stock off to have it milled. $75--oh well. It is money well spent upgrading your rifle.

Of course I'm not there, and this stock will probably get replaced--so the DBM fit makes a lot of sense for me, and I haven't dropped $75 into milling on a stock I will one day no longer own.

I can also drop this DBM onto any other short-action 700, or sell it for pretty much what I paid for it.

My .02--YMMV.

Good luck.[/quote]


You make some good points. And money is unfortunately always an issue. I also have more than one short action Rem 700 so it might be nice to switch the DBM into my other rifles. Thanks for the info. You made this decision much easier.
Eight_Ring  [Team Member]
12/12/2013 1:11:41 PM EST
[quote]Originally Posted By Green_Canoe:
[quote]Originally Posted By Eight_Ring:
[quote]Originally Posted By Green_Canoe:
[quote]Originally Posted By Eight_Ring:
SNIP

[/quote]

Thank you. I think I see my problem: I don't hang out on Sniper's Hide.

So how obscure is the AI MK I mag vs. the AICS? Should I be concerned about availability issues in the future with the AI MK I?[/quote]

Apparently PT&G has a contract with AI to supply the MK I mags (per PT&G on Sniper's Hide).

That said, I'd buy a backup (or two) if funds permit, and maybe price used mags on gunroker or in the forums

If you already have an excellent stock (so you don't mind committing to milling it) AND money is not an impediment , hey, don't fuck around--go M5-style and AICS mags straight out of the gate, and send your stock off to have it milled. $75--oh well. It is money well spent upgrading your rifle.

Of course I'm not there, and this stock will probably get replaced--so the DBM fit makes a lot of sense for me, and I haven't dropped $75 into milling on a stock I will one day no longer own.

I can also drop this DBM onto any other short-action 700, or sell it for pretty much what I paid for it.

My .02--YMMV.

Good luck.[/quote]


You make some good points. And money is unfortunately always an issue. I also have more than one short action Rem 700 so it might be nice to switch the DBM into my other rifles. Thanks for the info. You made this decision much easier.[/quote]

Good to hear it--thanks.
Eight_Ring  [Team Member]
12/19/2013 3:15:02 PM EST
UPDATE on the PT&G BDL "Drop In" DBM:

I had bought the PT&G BDL "drop-in" bottom metal a couple weeks ago, but hadn't had any time at the bench to check the fit.

I tried to insttall it last night in an H&S Precision stock and it wouldn't drop in--but a pleasant hour with some 60 grit sandpaper wrapped around a mill bastard file and some dowels got it fitting beautifuly.

It's NOT a 15 minute swap--more like an hour, trimming away the non-critical/non-standardized inletting dimensions in the mag well that NOBODY cared about before, because the BDL metal didn't go anywhere near them.


Overall I'd say it really isn't that difficult to fit--it mostly involves looking and thinking and then working gently and carefully with the abrasives.

Dremel tool is WAY overkill--way too much horsepower unless you have a real deft touch.

Tool of choice was 60 grit sandpaper wrapped around a flat bar, and/or wrapped around a small dowel (for the radiused corners).

I took some pictures of the process, and I'm going to make a DIY thread in case any of you are intererested.

I was shooting it today. I'm having minor feeding problems--but they seem to be resolving themselves with use (i.e. the mag's lips are breaking in).


HERE... is a link to a thread on the Sniper's Hide where guys are talking about inletting issues and feed problems.


If you don't own a workbench and don't actually enjoy spending an hour (or an hour and a half) fitting stocks (and generally enjoy the hidden thills in just making shit work), you may just want to go with the M5 style and pay Badger Ordnance the $75 to do the inletting.

If you don't mind a little time at the workbench doing minor fitting, I'd say at $150 (with 1 mag included) this bottom metal is a smoking deal.

All the best.





ETA: Pics...








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