Archived Posts » 59,789,155
I'm doing something wrong here, what ?
6/7/2012 1:04:04 AM
Good Barrel, Trigger, Scope and Ammo ( I think, handloads) 200 yards off a Bi-pod,rear bag, group went from high right to low left
6/7/2012 1:54:18 AM
Time between shots? Did you load the ammo? Did the barrel warm up and touch the stock?
6/7/2012 1:59:12 AM
I thought this would be a classic example of something
I did not feel the need to post rifle specifics as it might be typical
Time between shots? Hardly any, it's a 10 shot group, shoot em before it gets hot Did you load the ammo? Yes, I did Did the barrel warm up and touch the stock? No, its a Free Floated AR in .223 Cal
I did not feel the need to post rifle specifics as it might be typical
Time between shots? Hardly any, it's a 10 shot group, shoot em before it gets hot Did you load the ammo? Yes, I did Did the barrel warm up and touch the stock? No, its a Free Floated AR in .223 Cal
6/7/2012 2:05:28 AM
Are the optics on tightly?
6/7/2012 2:34:14 AM
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
I thought this would be a classic example of something
I thought this would be a classic example of something
It looks to me like your barrel is heating up and pressing on the stock, causing the group to wander. Since it's a free-float AR, that theory is crap. What are typical groups with this rifle?
6/7/2012 5:33:46 AM
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Are the optics on tightly?
Are the optics on tightly?
this
6/7/2012 8:01:43 AM
Originally Posted By JFP:
this
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Are the optics on tightly?
Are the optics on tightly?
this
quite possibly this...
In addition... are you shooting off of a bipod? Do you have a pod-lok?
What are you using for a rear rest?
How is your cheekweld? Can you center the crosshairs in the scope without straining or using any muscles to align your eye behind the scope? Or do you have to "position" your head to get a good sight picture?
Is the barrel nut tight?
Could speculate all day but need more information.
John
6/8/2012 6:20:27 AM
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:it's a 10 shot group
You shouldn't compare your 10 shot group with other people's 3 and 5 shot groups.
The Trouble With 3-Shot Groups
6/8/2012 7:55:12 AM
Try shooting a few more 10 shot groups at 200 yards like that. I would try shooting 1 shot let the barrel cool for a little while and shoot again do the same thing till all ten shots are fired. Then next target fire 3 rounds one after another let the barrel cool and fire another 3 rounds(last group shoot 4 instead of 3). Then the next target shoot all ten right off the bat. Compare you targets see what a difference it makes with your weapon with a cool barrel. Also between 10 shot groups clean the barrel a little. Not only will this sort of help you see what your particular rifle does when firing it differently, but you will get some shooting in which is always fun. Sometimes I think that people are too concerned with comparing their groups to others. You could also try some decent factory ammo while your out their as well.
6/8/2012 9:08:03 AM
Do you have enough magnification to definitely maintain a consistent point of aim? Is your form or trigger pull degrading during the shot string? Check for loose optic, rings, etc. More likely parallex/checkweld issue, its really too consistent of a deviation to be much else if I'm reading right and your first three shots are the top right and last three are the bottom left. You didn't by chance have several loads with different charge weights for testing did you? No offense, sometimes weird shit has a simple answer.
6/8/2012 10:34:27 AM
Parallax set correctly? Any mirage that day?
6/8/2012 2:24:55 PM
I wish my precision ar in 223 would shoot 1 moa-ish
the stringing is frustrating
the stringing is frustrating
6/8/2012 4:21:35 PM
What are you expectations for 10 shots at 200 yards?
10 shots, MOA, 200 yds isn't bad for a gas gun.
Like others have said, it could be a bunch of things.
Maybe you're just not a great shot?
We can't all be Bob Lee Swaggers, somebody needs to pick up the brass.
Maybe your breating was getting in the way?
Maybe your reloads were way off one another, in the velocity department?
Maybe your wfe/SO was ragging on you the night before and you were just having a bad day?
Chris
10 shots, MOA, 200 yds isn't bad for a gas gun.
Like others have said, it could be a bunch of things.
Maybe you're just not a great shot?
We can't all be Bob Lee Swaggers, somebody needs to pick up the brass.
Maybe your breating was getting in the way?
Maybe your reloads were way off one another, in the velocity department?
Maybe your wfe/SO was ragging on you the night before and you were just having a bad day?
Chris
6/8/2012 5:39:56 PM
It is almost impossible to diagnose this through the Internet.
Check your mounts and muzzle device. Make sure they are tight.
Shoot a "dot drill" taking each shot on its own and getting up between shots.
Make sure you are getting a good cheek weld and that you parallax is set.
Check your mounts and muzzle device. Make sure they are tight.
Shoot a "dot drill" taking each shot on its own and getting up between shots.
Make sure you are getting a good cheek weld and that you parallax is set.
6/8/2012 6:06:30 PM
I thought of many of your ideas before posting, everything seems to be in order on the rifle, no muzzle device. There is a chart somewhere that shows shooter error and how it effects groups.
6/8/2012 6:22:48 PM
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
I thought of many of your ideas before posting, everything seems to be in order on the rifle, no muzzle device. There is a chart somewhere that shows shooter error and how it effects groups.
I thought of many of your ideas before posting, everything seems to be in order on the rifle, no muzzle device. There is a chart somewhere that shows shooter error and how it effects groups.
Don't think that will answer your questions. Looks like you shot three groups. Where they all shot continuously? Did you take a break? Using five round mags?
6/8/2012 6:42:35 PM
10 round mag, line up target, Bang, repeat
6/8/2012 7:08:01 PM
A simple chart isn't going to get it for you with a long rifle.
I seriously suggest you run a 100 yard dot drill and post the results.
I seriously suggest you run a 100 yard dot drill and post the results.
6/8/2012 7:10:34 PM
What were you expecting? 2" at 200y is a good group. It takes a very well setup rifle with great (not good) handloads and very practiced shooter to to much better.
Bipod is on a hard surface? Dirt? Grass? Carpet? Vert stringing could be a bipod bounce issue, but I don't see any 'issues' with 2" groups at 200y. Any number of minor inconsistencies could be at play. Scope parallax, inconsistent shoulder mount and/or cheek pressure, inconsistent bipod preload or too hard of a bipod surface, handloads not quite optimal for the rifle, barrel fouling, barrel temperature, etc....
Bipod is on a hard surface? Dirt? Grass? Carpet? Vert stringing could be a bipod bounce issue, but I don't see any 'issues' with 2" groups at 200y. Any number of minor inconsistencies could be at play. Scope parallax, inconsistent shoulder mount and/or cheek pressure, inconsistent bipod preload or too hard of a bipod surface, handloads not quite optimal for the rifle, barrel fouling, barrel temperature, etc....
6/8/2012 7:14:49 PM
Originally Posted By Chrome308:
Bipod is on a hard surface? Dirt? Grass? Carpet? If you're shooting off a hard surface its very likely bipod bounce.
Put a couple of pieces of carpet under the bipod legs and try again. (or shoot off a front bag instead of the bipod and compare)
If its not bipod bounce, you're handloads may need work.
Bipod is on a hard surface? Dirt? Grass? Carpet? If you're shooting off a hard surface its very likely bipod bounce.
Put a couple of pieces of carpet under the bipod legs and try again. (or shoot off a front bag instead of the bipod and compare)
If its not bipod bounce, you're handloads may need work.
Bipod bounce won't affect groups. The bullet is out the barrel before you even feel recoil.
6/8/2012 7:16:11 PM
Originally Posted By LoneWolfUSMC:
A simple chart isn't going to get it for you with a long rifle.
I seriously suggest you run a 100 yard dot drill and post the results.
A simple chart isn't going to get it for you with a long rifle.
I seriously suggest you run a 100 yard dot drill and post the results.
Do this.
6/8/2012 7:23:23 PM
Originally Posted By LoneWolfUSMC:
A simple chart isn't going to get it for you with a long rifle.
I seriously suggest you run a 100 yard dot drill and post the results.
A simple chart isn't going to get it for you with a long rifle.
I seriously suggest you run a 100 yard dot drill and post the results.
I'll try the dot drill.
6/8/2012 11:27:44 PM
If the order of the shots were randomly placed in the string I would suspect an inconstancy problem in your technique. If the POI is really drifting, I would suspect something coming loose or a problem with heat buildup effecting the way the barrel moves.
It's a long shot, but check if your gas tube is contacting the barrel nut. It should really be right in the middle of the notch. Cut one of the tangs off the nut if you have to.
Another thing to do is dial your scope so the marks on the paper don't interfere with your aiming point in the sight picture.
One MOA is still pretty respectable, but considering the sting, it looks like there is room for improvement.
It's a long shot, but check if your gas tube is contacting the barrel nut. It should really be right in the middle of the notch. Cut one of the tangs off the nut if you have to.
Another thing to do is dial your scope so the marks on the paper don't interfere with your aiming point in the sight picture.
One MOA is still pretty respectable, but considering the sting, it looks like there is room for improvement.
6/10/2012 12:22:54 AM
Originally Posted By Eric_75:
One MOA is still pretty respectable...
One MOA is still pretty respectable...
This!
6/10/2012 11:59:18 PM
If it was even dispersion, I would be happy to say that. However the clusters lead me to believe there is something else going on here and that the rifle may be capable of better accuracy.
6/12/2012 1:20:21 AM
Originally Posted By LoneWolfUSMC:
If it was even dispersion, I would be happy to say that. However the clusters lead me to believe there is something else going on here and that the rifle may be capable of better accuracy.
If it was even dispersion, I would be happy to say that. However the clusters lead me to believe there is something else going on here and that the rifle may be capable of better accuracy.
It is. Went out today to try again.
Used same old Brass (FC fired multiple times
) same as last time just to see what would happen (actually 17 shots! )
Seven more of the same ammo, different target
Here's your Dot test
...I just did not have time, it's warm here in the desert and I did not have time to shoot 10 shot groups, with letting the barrel cool off and all, so Just 5 
First of all, I knew I had to bear down and concentrate, more.
I got a better/more firm purchase at the stock and my shoulder
Any so called Fliers, (as in I knew it when I shot it, showed up)
I ran a ladder test at the end with new LC Brass, Bullet is and was Nosler 77 CC.
I did snug up the scope mount after that first 17 (10 plus seven more) round group, don't know if it mattered.
Thanks for all the help, I guess I just needed to concentrate more on what I was doing.
In the END, I did end up at pretty much the same Load for my rifle I figured out before.
Rifle in question (bad pic)
all groups fired at 200 yards
6/12/2012 2:04:49 AM
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
It is. Went out today to try again.
Used same old Brass (FC fired multiple times ) same as last time just to see what would happen (actually 17 shots! )
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0589.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0590.jpg
Seven more of the same ammo, different target
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0591.jpg
Here's your Dot test ...I just did not have time, it's warm here in the desert and I did not have time to shoot 10 shot groups, with letting the barrel cool off and all, so Just 5
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0593.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0594.jpg
First of all, I knew I had to bear down and concentrate, more.
I got a better/more firm purchase at the stock and my shoulder
Any so called Fliers, (as in I knew it when I shot it, showed up)
I ran a ladder test at the end with new LC Brass, Bullet is and was Nosler 77 CC.
I did snug up the scope mount after that first 17 (10 plus seven more) round group, don't know if it mattered.
Thanks for all the help, I guess I just needed to concentrate more on what I was doing.
In the END, I did end up at pretty much the same Load for my rifle I figured out before.
Rifle in question (bad pic)
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0587.jpg
all groups fired at 200 yards
Originally Posted By LoneWolfUSMC:
If it was even dispersion, I would be happy to say that. However the clusters lead me to believe there is something else going on here and that the rifle may be capable of better accuracy.
If it was even dispersion, I would be happy to say that. However the clusters lead me to believe there is something else going on here and that the rifle may be capable of better accuracy.
It is. Went out today to try again.
Used same old Brass (FC fired multiple times
) same as last time just to see what would happen (actually 17 shots! )
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0589.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0590.jpg
Seven more of the same ammo, different target
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0591.jpg
Here's your Dot test
...I just did not have time, it's warm here in the desert and I did not have time to shoot 10 shot groups, with letting the barrel cool off and all, so Just 5
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0593.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0594.jpg
First of all, I knew I had to bear down and concentrate, more.
I got a better/more firm purchase at the stock and my shoulder
Any so called Fliers, (as in I knew it when I shot it, showed up)
I ran a ladder test at the end with new LC Brass, Bullet is and was Nosler 77 CC.
I did snug up the scope mount after that first 17 (10 plus seven more) round group, don't know if it mattered.
Thanks for all the help, I guess I just needed to concentrate more on what I was doing.
In the END, I did end up at pretty much the same Load for my rifle I figured out before.
Rifle in question (bad pic)
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/IcatchEm/IMAG0587.jpg
all groups fired at 200 yards
That grouping looks much better.
6/13/2012 10:56:18 PM
It must have been just a fluke that they all made a diagonal line in your first post.
I think the the dot test that some people were asking for is when you take one shot at each dot. This allows you to see if the POI is drifting between the first and the last shots. It also prevents you from getting distracted by the hole that you just added to your aiming point.
An alternative to the dot target is a notebook where you diagram your target and mark the POI of each shot with it's number in the sequence. Also If you are at the range for any amount of time, the wind or temperature conditions could change during that time. It would be nice to keep a record of that so you can understand how your gear responds to those conditions.
I think the the dot test that some people were asking for is when you take one shot at each dot. This allows you to see if the POI is drifting between the first and the last shots. It also prevents you from getting distracted by the hole that you just added to your aiming point.
An alternative to the dot target is a notebook where you diagram your target and mark the POI of each shot with it's number in the sequence. Also If you are at the range for any amount of time, the wind or temperature conditions could change during that time. It would be nice to keep a record of that so you can understand how your gear responds to those conditions.
6/13/2012 11:17:56 PM
"I think the the dot test that some people were asking for is when you take one shot at each dot. This allows you to see if the POI is drifting between the first and the last shots. It also prevents you from getting distracted by the hole that you just added to your aiming point. "
I know...
I ran out after work, I had intended to do that but it just didn't turn out like that
I know...
I ran out after work, I had intended to do that but it just didn't turn out like that
6/13/2012 11:44:43 PM
How is your muzzle?
I can only assume that there aren't any nicks or some sort of damage to the bore.
I can only assume that there aren't any nicks or some sort of damage to the bore.
6/14/2012 12:01:51 AM
I still see some high right to low left groups there. Some accuracy to be had when you figure that out.
John
John
6/14/2012 2:27:00 PM
Could be a number of things. Is your scope a first or 2nd focal pane? Did you adjust your variable while shooting? Also you might want to check on your optic mounts.
6/14/2012 2:49:10 PM
Originally Posted By 300BR:
I still see some high right to low left groups there. Some accuracy to be had when you figure that out.
John
I still see some high right to low left groups there. Some accuracy to be had when you figure that out.
John
I think he just needs more trigger time. His second group posted I would say is better than the first.
