Aluminum Uzi?
Would it be possible to mill Uzi upper & lower receivers from aluminum? I realize there would have to be some hardened steel rails/channels for the bolt & cocking piece, but otherwise is it technically possible?
Why do I ask? The fiancee is Jewish; she's going to purse carry; and she loves the Mini-Uzi pistol builds.
From Googling & searching on here, & touching the Uzi-Talk forum, I've not found any references.
Gig 'em,
backbencher
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Would it be possible to mill Uzi upper & lower receivers from aluminum? I realize there would have to be some hardened steel rails/channels for the bolt & cocking piece, but otherwise is it technically possible?
Why do I ask? The fiancee is Jewish; she's going to purse carry; and she loves the Mini-Uzi pistol builds.
From Googling & searching on here, & touching the Uzi-Talk forum, I've not found any references.
Gig 'em,
backbencher
Mini Uzi or
Micro Uzi?
Sure, its possible to mill an Uzi receiver out of aluminum...............how much $$$$$ do you have?
You likely spend more $$$ than you would spend on a full auto......and you'll still have the heaviest purse/pocket gun in history.
If weight is an issue, take a look at the Steyr SPP or the DS Arms/B&T TP 9
About the same footprint as the micro uzi and lighter to boot.
Well, we'll see if a mini mill is in my future or not. An all aluminum framed mini-Uzi would be significantly lighter than an all steel one, no? With all the 922r clones running around, I'm a little surprised no one's tried it.
Gig 'em,
backbencher
The bolt is still gonna be super heavy
The reason UZI's are heavy is because they are straight blow back operated. So a heavy bolt is used to absorb the recoil. The rest of the weapon really isn't that heavy, just stamped sheet metal. I think aluminum wouldn't do well in an UZI design. If you want something lighter i would go with something that operates from a locked breech which allows for a lighter weapon, like the HK SP89 or Steyr SPP. Of course to be honest, I wouldn't recommend any of these for purse carry for self defense. Really to be practical she would be better off with a Glock 17 and some 33rd magazines.
Oh, she'll probably carry a 1911. But the HK & Steyr are not kosher. You know converts - more blank than the blanks born into blank.
I realize an Uzi bolt is heavy, being straight blowback. But 9mm ARs are straight blow back as well, so I'll posit this:
An aluminum mini-Uzi pistol shouldn't be any heavier than a 9mm AR pistol w/ the same bbl length. No?
Gig 'em,
backbencher
wouldn't heavier springs allow for a lighter bolt? Add more spring and drill some holes in the bolt????
You need to seriously think this through if her #1 concern is it be an Israeli designed gun.
The Uzi was heavy....which was fine for a FA subgun.
The Mini Uzi was a little bit lighter and smaller....but still heavy.
The Micro Uzi is a overly large pistol, and while it would be a lot of fun in FA, its a range toy in semiauto.
You aren''t the first who wanted to lighten up an Uzi. Go read the Uzi Files and you'll see similiar threads.
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Oh, she'll probably carry a 1911. But the HK & Steyr are not kosher. You know converts - more blank than the blanks born into blank.
I realize an Uzi bolt is heavy, being straight blowback. But 9mm ARs are straight blow back as well, so I'll posit this:
An aluminum mini-Uzi pistol shouldn't be any heavier than a 9mm AR pistol w/ the same bbl length. No?
Gig 'em,
backbencher
The Bundeswehr used the Uzi too, is it still kosher?
I have to say this seems like a poor manner to select a suitable carry weapon for your gal. If she's insistent on an Israeli weapon, then consider one of the smaller offerings from Magnum Research based on the Jericho series of pistols.
Relax - I doubt she'll regularly carry a 5+ pound $1500+ hand built gun in her purse - except maybe to Temple : ) As I said, she'll probably carry a 1911 when we can afford it. Just wanted to know if it could be done - seems it could be once I get a mini-mill & some experience. Also wanted to know how much it might weigh - I see no reason why it shouldn't be close to the weight of a similarly configured AR pistol.
Gig 'em,
backbencher
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Relax - I doubt she'll regularly carry a 5+ pound $1500+ hand built gun in her purse - except maybe to Temple : ) As I said, she'll probably carry a 1911 when we can afford it. Just wanted to know if it could be done - seems it could be once I get a mini-mill & some experience. Also wanted to know how much it might weigh - I see no reason why it shouldn't be close to the weight of a similarly configured AR pistol.
Gig 'em,
backbencher
The bolt of the mini uzi is consdierably heavier than the bolt of a 9mm AR, so it will in fact be heavier than an AR 9mm pistol.
It can be done, but replacing 1/6" sheet metal with machined aluminum which will need to be thicker is going to be a lot of enigneering and in short will not save a lot of weight.
But go for it man, I will admit I am curious to see if it can be done!
If comparing to a 9mm AR, my 10.5" lightweight barreled 9mm AR pistol is almost as heavy as my UZI.
The bulk of the weight also coming from the bolt.
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
The bolt of the mini uzi is consdierably heavier than the bolt of a 9mm AR, so it will in fact be heavier than an AR 9mm pistol.
It can be done, but replacing 1/6" sheet metal with machined aluminum which will need to be thicker is going to be a lot of enigneering and in short will not save a lot of weight.
But go for it man, I will admit I am curious to see if it can be done!
Ah, down to brass tacks. Why? I recall the FA Mini-Uzi had a replacement bolt available IOT slow the cyclic; if we're building a SA gun, there's no need to slow the cyclic below reducing the opening of the chamber @ safe levels of pressure. Why then would a semi-auto Uzi/mini-Uzi/micro-Uzi bolt be any heavier than a 9mm AR bolt + buffer?
I think the last two posts have it - the Uzi is heavy b/c it has a heavy bolt, & as you pointed out replacing thin sheet metal w/ aluminum ain't gonna save that much weight. So what COULD the Uzi bolt weigh? Surely there's no need for a bolt any heavier than that of a TEC-9, an AR 9mm pistol (+ buffer weight), or that of the micro-Uzi.... The whole Hi-Point series is straight blowback - there's no reason to be any heavier than a Hi-Point 9mm carbine...
Gig 'em,
backbencher
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
The bolt of the mini uzi is consdierably heavier than the bolt of a 9mm AR, so it will in fact be heavier than an AR 9mm pistol.
It can be done, but replacing 1/6" sheet metal with machined aluminum which will need to be thicker is going to be a lot of enigneering and in short will not save a lot of weight.
But go for it man, I will admit I am curious to see if it can be done!
Ah, down to brass tacks. Why? I recall the FA Mini-Uzi had a replacement bolt available IOT slow the cyclic; if we're building a SA gun, there's no need to slow the cyclic below reducing the opening of the chamber @ safe levels of pressure. Why then would a semi-auto Uzi/mini-Uzi/micro-Uzi bolt be any heavier than a 9mm AR bolt + buffer?
I think the last two posts have it - the Uzi is heavy b/c it has a heavy bolt, & as you pointed out replacing thin sheet metal w/ aluminum ain't gonna save that much weight. So what COULD the Uzi bolt weigh? Surely there's no need for a bolt any heavier than that of a TEC-9, an AR 9mm pistol (+ buffer weight), or that of the micro-Uzi.... The whole Hi-Point series is straight blowback - there's no reason to be any heavier than a Hi-Point 9mm carbine...
Gig 'em,
backbencher
Without going into a great deal of math, as long as the bolt has the minimum mass necessary to hold the bolt closed via inertia while the cartridge is being launched, a heavier bolt will slow the cyclic rate on a full auto, and to some degree allows a shorter recoil stroke.
I would caution if you aren't familiar with the math and physics of how this all works, DO NOT go monkeying around with the internals. Go find a copy of Chinn's The MAchine Gun Volume 5 which has all the math and calcs on blowback operation, read it twice, and fill in the numbers for the Uzi and the AR-15 9mm and see if you understand.
Honestly by simple physics and material properties you are going to be hard pressed to do a blowback 9mm for under 4 lbs with a barrel of about 8". The numbers just don't allow it to really work any other way without going to delayed locking (browning short recoil like a pistol, HK style roller lock).
Instead of trying to make a Mini Uzi lighter...........why not just get her a Micro Uzi pistol?
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Without going into a great deal of math, as long as the bolt has the minimum mass necessary to hold the bolt closed via inertia while the cartridge is being launched, a heavier bolt will slow the cyclic rate on a full auto, and to some degree allows a shorter recoil stroke.
I would caution if you aren't familiar with the math and physics of how this all works, DO NOT go monkeying around with the internals. Go find a copy of Chinn's The MAchine Gun Volume 5 which has all the math and calcs on blowback operation, read it twice, and fill in the numbers for the Uzi and the AR-15 9mm and see if you understand.
Honestly by simple physics and material properties you are going to be hard pressed to do a blowback 9mm for under 4 lbs with a barrel of about 8". The numbers just don't allow it to really work any other way without going to delayed locking (browning short recoil like a pistol, HK style roller lock).
Ok - longer bolt stroke allows a lighter bolt - ie, 9mm AR bolt + buffer. Short bolt stroke requires a heavier bolt - ie, micro-Uzi, HiPoint pistol. The longer the bbl, the higher the pressure spike before the bullet exits the bbl - increasing bolt thrust AND extraction difficulty?
So - the 9mm Hi Point pistol's slide can be a lower mass than the carbine's bolt B/C the pistol bbl is shorter?
Hmm. Have both the .40" Kel-Tec SUB2000 & a 9mm HiPoint carbine @ the house - will have to disassemble & weigh both bolts and measure the bolt travel. The KelTec's manual specifically forbids aluminum cased ammo - presumably b/c the extractor would tear off the cartridge base...
So by this logic a full-size Uzi pistol w/ greater bolt travel might be able to be made LIGHTER than a similar bbl mini- or micro-Uzi? Ahh, physics...
Gig 'em,
backbencher
