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Nice 1893 im cleaning up
9/11/2011 9:45:13 PM
Hello all, just wanted to drop in and show off a 1893 i have in my possession for a little bit.
What i know of the rifle is it is supposedly chambered in 30-30 (cant find the caliber marking), has a marbles marked rear sight with what appears to be a thumb pusher for the elevator. Curved steel butt plate, no bulls eye, case colored receiver about 50% bluing left. The stock has a good crack in it starting from the top of buttplate to mid way down, looks like its been "fixed" in the past, wood is dark but good looking. Tang is marked with Model 1893, barrel has special smokeless steel and latest patent is 1893.
Reason i am in possession of it my buddy whom owns it wanted to shoot it (hasnt been shot in many years) well he tried it and nothing :'( seems it has a firing pin issue that i will be getting to the bottom of for him ill also be cleaning it up and lubeing it for him. He is not a gun guy and is uncomfortable with doing it. So naturally i jumped at the chance to help him out ;D.
Best i can figure is the gun was made 1907 or later it has a 402xxx serial number.
Well have it torn down, broken firing pin the whole tip is broke off the front.
here some pics for ya guys
And i found this name under the tang etched into stock
Still haven't found the caliber marking, ill slide the sight off tomorrow at work when i clean up the receiver and barrel
Its dingy and crusty with a 100+ years off use and grime but i believe it will clean up real good.
On that note best way to clean wood? Pledge?
What i know of the rifle is it is supposedly chambered in 30-30 (cant find the caliber marking), has a marbles marked rear sight with what appears to be a thumb pusher for the elevator. Curved steel butt plate, no bulls eye, case colored receiver about 50% bluing left. The stock has a good crack in it starting from the top of buttplate to mid way down, looks like its been "fixed" in the past, wood is dark but good looking. Tang is marked with Model 1893, barrel has special smokeless steel and latest patent is 1893.
Reason i am in possession of it my buddy whom owns it wanted to shoot it (hasnt been shot in many years) well he tried it and nothing :'( seems it has a firing pin issue that i will be getting to the bottom of for him ill also be cleaning it up and lubeing it for him. He is not a gun guy and is uncomfortable with doing it. So naturally i jumped at the chance to help him out ;D.
Best i can figure is the gun was made 1907 or later it has a 402xxx serial number.
Well have it torn down, broken firing pin the whole tip is broke off the front.
here some pics for ya guys
And i found this name under the tang etched into stock
Still haven't found the caliber marking, ill slide the sight off tomorrow at work when i clean up the receiver and barrel
Its dingy and crusty with a 100+ years off use and grime but i believe it will clean up real good.
On that note best way to clean wood? Pledge?
9/11/2011 10:09:38 PM
That is realy nice , I like the older guns myself.
9/11/2011 10:49:46 PM
from the pics you show, take your rear sight off, the marking might be underneath it
cool looking 93 though
cool looking 93 though
9/11/2011 10:53:21 PM
Originally Posted By Beamy:
from the pics you show, take your rear sight off, the marking might be underneath it
cool looking 93 though
from the pics you show, take your rear sight off, the marking might be underneath it
cool looking 93 though
Yup thats what i am figuring, from my understanding marlin did use marbles sights, but they weren't marked.
9/11/2011 10:56:49 PM
I love a sweet lever gun!
9/13/2011 2:36:22 PM
Some updates on this rifle, got it all apart and the firing pin tip is broken along with the FP spring, everything is torn down cleaned reoiled and ready to go back together. Here is my current dilemma. *cross posted from marlin owners*
1.Ok as far as a new firing pin and spring goes will 16(2nd one) and 17 on this page replace the ones in the rifle? I believe they are correct since the old style refers to the BP version correct?
firing pin
2.Now a stock question, the wood is all cleaned up(used dawn and simple green ) nasty grime for sure is gone. Prob is the wood is really really dry, was thinkin about 0000 wooling it lightly then applying a few coats of BLO to the stocks. Would this be a good route to take? I dont want to take away from any value, but I dont want the stocks to crack anymore.
Thoughts?
3.just worried that the wood will crack or deteriorate in other places because its so dry, ill talk to my buddy and see what he want to do. Im thinking just rubbing some linseed oil into it will help with the dry wood issue. Im not looking to "finish" the stock just protect what is there. Hope that makes sense ???
After just cleaning it made a huge difference in the color, seems 100+ yrs of grime is dark LOL. If it is varnish they used i would say 80% of it is gone from the high wear areas. heres the wood after cleaning.
Compared to this
So any ideas on the stock issues?
i really like this gun shame i cant own it
1.Ok as far as a new firing pin and spring goes will 16(2nd one) and 17 on this page replace the ones in the rifle? I believe they are correct since the old style refers to the BP version correct?
firing pin
2.Now a stock question, the wood is all cleaned up(used dawn and simple green ) nasty grime for sure is gone. Prob is the wood is really really dry, was thinkin about 0000 wooling it lightly then applying a few coats of BLO to the stocks. Would this be a good route to take? I dont want to take away from any value, but I dont want the stocks to crack anymore.
Thoughts?
3.just worried that the wood will crack or deteriorate in other places because its so dry, ill talk to my buddy and see what he want to do. Im thinking just rubbing some linseed oil into it will help with the dry wood issue. Im not looking to "finish" the stock just protect what is there. Hope that makes sense ???
After just cleaning it made a huge difference in the color, seems 100+ yrs of grime is dark LOL. If it is varnish they used i would say 80% of it is gone from the high wear areas. heres the wood after cleaning.
Compared to this
So any ideas on the stock issues?
i really like this gun shame i cant own it
9/15/2011 1:16:38 PM
If your friend values the gun as a collectable, the last thing you ever want to do to and older gun is "clean" it. I have seen guys take plain steel wool and sand paper to antique guns to "clean" them. What in fact you are doing is destroying the collectable value. However, if he just plans to make it a shooter (like I would) have at it. Judging from the stock repair, it was a rifle stock converted for carbine plate. I have several older Marlins and they all seem to have very dry wood. Lemon oil is a natural cleaner as well as a moisturizer and works very well. It will keep the stock from drying out and cracking. You can also use a bit of tung oil.
9/15/2011 2:30:04 PM
Nope no harsh abrasives were used, was gently done but had miles of grime was real nasty. Going to use BLO and put a few coats on it judst to help it and leave it as is. The buttplate is original to rifle seems someone "fixed" the stock but never glued anything back together so im goin to repair the stock in that regards and hopefully have it looking good yet aged 
10/1/2011 8:41:30 PM
There are a few things that don't add up. In 1905 Marlin changed the marking from "Model 1893" to "Model 93" on the tang. So a "Model 1893" marked receiver would have been built before 1906. I have a late "Model 1893" that has a alpha prefix "Model 93" serial number. Brophy contradicts himself in several places,reference to serial numbers, but if the upper tang is marked "Model 1893" it was made prior to 1906 and maybe even before 1905. Brophy says the highest serial number reported for a "Model 1893" is 448,355. The other poster is correct that the calibre designation should be under your rear sight.
Bill
Bill
10/1/2011 8:49:39 PM
Originally Posted By MIhunter:
If your friend values the gun as a collectable, the last thing you ever want to do to and older gun is "clean" it. I have seen guys take plain steel wool and sand paper to antique guns to "clean" them. What in fact you are doing is destroying the collectable value.
If your friend values the gun as a collectable, the last thing you ever want to do to and older gun is "clean" it. I have seen guys take plain steel wool and sand paper to antique guns to "clean" them. What in fact you are doing is destroying the collectable value.
Doug Turnbull disagrees.
This idea of untouched preservation is kinda uniquely American. If you send an older Rigby or H&H in for service, it gets completely cleaned up, fixed, and refinished, good as new.
A gun like what the OP has would benefit from being completely restored, IMO.
10/1/2011 11:45:44 PM
[quote]Doug Turnbull disagrees.
This idea of untouched preservation is kinda uniquely American. If you send an older Rigby or H&H in for service, it gets completely cleaned up, fixed, and refinished, good as new.
A gun like what the OP has would benefit from being completely restored, IMO.
[/quote)
To a point. Having the average joe trying to remove rust via steel wool vs. dumping thousand of dollars to sent to Doug Turnbull is two differents ends of the spectrum
This idea of untouched preservation is kinda uniquely American. If you send an older Rigby or H&H in for service, it gets completely cleaned up, fixed, and refinished, good as new.
A gun like what the OP has would benefit from being completely restored, IMO.
[/quote)
To a point. Having the average joe trying to remove rust via steel wool vs. dumping thousand of dollars to sent to Doug Turnbull is two differents ends of the spectrum
10/3/2011 12:41:40 AM
There are a few things that don't add up. In 1905 Marlin changed the marking from "Model 1893" to "Model 93" on the tang. So a "Model 1893" marked receiver would have been built before 1906. I have a late "Model 1893" that has a alpha prefix "Model 93" serial number. Brophy contradicts himself in several places,reference to serial numbers, but if the upper tang is marked "Model 1893" it was made prior to 1906 and maybe even before 1905. Brophy says the highest serial number reported for a "Model 1893" is 448,355. The other poster is correct that the calibre designation should be under your rear sight.
Age was determined by what ive found on the net, i could be wrong but seems after 355xxx info is nonexistant to spotty. I will be updating this thread soon as i have the stock looking good and the replacement parts on the way.
10/4/2011 2:02:16 PM
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
Doug Turnbull disagrees.
This idea of untouched preservation is kinda uniquely American. If you send an older Rigby or H&H in for service, it gets completely cleaned up, fixed, and refinished, good as new.
A gun like what the OP has would benefit from being completely restored, IMO.
Originally Posted By MIhunter:
If your friend values the gun as a collectable, the last thing you ever want to do to and older gun is "clean" it. I have seen guys take plain steel wool and sand paper to antique guns to "clean" them. What in fact you are doing is destroying the collectable value.
If your friend values the gun as a collectable, the last thing you ever want to do to and older gun is "clean" it. I have seen guys take plain steel wool and sand paper to antique guns to "clean" them. What in fact you are doing is destroying the collectable value.
Doug Turnbull disagrees.
This idea of untouched preservation is kinda uniquely American. If you send an older Rigby or H&H in for service, it gets completely cleaned up, fixed, and refinished, good as new.
A gun like what the OP has would benefit from being completely restored, IMO.
I agree. I see lots of old guns that are basically junk. Especially black powder era Winchesters and Marlins. Their value is so low that there's no way to "ruin" them with a correct restoration, including relining the barrel so they can be used.
There are a very few 18th Century and early 19th Century guns that should not be touched except for a clean up, and maybe careful repair by the right person. This is a dangerous path to trod as the value of a newly discovered Beck or other rifle from Eastern Pennsylvania is likely higher if left untouched in any way as a historical record.
This rifle has an antique Ballard action, a trigger that was originally a double set type, a modified firing pin and breech block, and I think the hammer was modified. Not to mention the new barrel and Anschutz butt plate. It is not a donor of parts for restoration.
10/5/2011 8:46:05 PM
Originally Posted By AeroE:
I agree. I see lots of old guns that are basically junk. Especially black powder era Winchesters and Marlins. Their value is so low that there's no way to "ruin" them with a correct restoration, including relining the barrel so they can be used.
There are a very few 18th Century and early 19th Century guns that should not be touched except for a clean up, and maybe careful repair by the right person. This is a dangerous path to trod as the value of a newly discovered Beck or other rifle from Eastern Pennsylvania is likely higher if left untouched in any way as a historical record.
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=31588
This rifle has an antique Ballard action, a trigger that was originally a double set type, a modified firing pin and breech block, and I think the hammer was modified. Not to mention the new barrel and Anschutz butt plate. It is not a donor of parts for restoration.
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
Doug Turnbull disagrees.
This idea of untouched preservation is kinda uniquely American. If you send an older Rigby or H&H in for service, it gets completely cleaned up, fixed, and refinished, good as new.
A gun like what the OP has would benefit from being completely restored, IMO.
Originally Posted By MIhunter:
If your friend values the gun as a collectable, the last thing you ever want to do to and older gun is "clean" it. I have seen guys take plain steel wool and sand paper to antique guns to "clean" them. What in fact you are doing is destroying the collectable value.
If your friend values the gun as a collectable, the last thing you ever want to do to and older gun is "clean" it. I have seen guys take plain steel wool and sand paper to antique guns to "clean" them. What in fact you are doing is destroying the collectable value.
Doug Turnbull disagrees.
This idea of untouched preservation is kinda uniquely American. If you send an older Rigby or H&H in for service, it gets completely cleaned up, fixed, and refinished, good as new.
A gun like what the OP has would benefit from being completely restored, IMO.
I agree. I see lots of old guns that are basically junk. Especially black powder era Winchesters and Marlins. Their value is so low that there's no way to "ruin" them with a correct restoration, including relining the barrel so they can be used.
There are a very few 18th Century and early 19th Century guns that should not be touched except for a clean up, and maybe careful repair by the right person. This is a dangerous path to trod as the value of a newly discovered Beck or other rifle from Eastern Pennsylvania is likely higher if left untouched in any way as a historical record.
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=31588
This rifle has an antique Ballard action, a trigger that was originally a double set type, a modified firing pin and breech block, and I think the hammer was modified. Not to mention the new barrel and Anschutz butt plate. It is not a donor of parts for restoration.
Amusingly, it's exactly the opposite with cars and motorcycles, where Americans over-restore, and Europeans tend to preserve the patina from use.
Go figure.
I'm a believer in making them fun to shoot again.
10/6/2011 9:59:25 PM
Well all cleaned up and repaired
Im happy with the outcome
Im happy with the outcome
