Winchester Ladder Sight Questions
Does anyone have some documentation on sighting in the ladder sight and what ranges the 0-20 increments pertain to? As well as zeroing when the sight is down?
The rifle in question is a '28 Model 94.
Thanks guys I Googled and just kept coming up with parts and useless articles.
Nothing?...all I have found was some comments on zeroing at either 50 or 100 yards(a debate there). But nothing about ranging the slide. Thanks again for anyone that can bring in some more solid info on this kind of sight.
Can you post a clear picture of the sight??
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Can you post a clear picture of the sight??
Borrowed from a parts site, b/c mine is at the smith. But same sight.
I also have wondered and done some research. The Madis Winchester Book and Madis Sight Book help about as much as anything I could find. With that, I don't think there is any particular ranging to the carbine ladder sight with the 0-20 graduations. The early 44-40 sight with the 0-9 lines were supposedly in yards and it makes sense in that the lines are not equally spaced, thus somewhat correlating to a ballistics trajectory. These were on all the 1873's and it seems on the 1892's until sometime in the teens. I have a 1917 that has a 0-20 sight that I know is original to the gun.
Along with the 44-40 I have 1892 Win SRC's in 32-20 and 25-20 and none shoot to anywhere near what the ladder would suggest. The lines are equal so you know that they can't represent anything based on trajectory. And since the calibers all shoot to different poi's it would seem to support that conclusion.
I load them for the field sight and hold up or down from 0 to 150 yards. The full lenth rifles with buckhorn or semi buckhorn sights are much easier but still are really only good to about 200-300 yards with any accuracy.
What caliber is your 94 in? Since it is a 94 it will shoot flatter than the 1892 so it might come closer to fitting some arc. If it were mine, I would zero for the field sight (sight ladder down) and keep it somewhat short in range.
I hunt deer with my 44-40 SRC but keep my shots at under 100 yards or so. For longer shots I go to an 1894 in the flat shooting 32-40.
Its a 30-30...and that is what I was thinking; trajectory didn't compute to the hash marks. I guess its more of a shoot the same load and learn what the ladder likes at given yardage and memorize. Problem is until you find a sweet factory or hand load to shoot consistently, POI can't be locked to the sight. Looks like I'll see where it hits at 50 and 100 with ladder down. Then play around with the ladder.
What I gleaned from the Madis sight book is the sight is a #44A.
There were several modifications made to the sight to regulate it for the Model 94 rifle and carbine using both smokeless and blackpowder, if the sight is original to the rifle, the modifications would be made at the factory to regulate the sight for application on a rifle OR a carbine but there would be subtle differences between the sights so they would not be interchangeable.
The 0-20 ladder marks are regulation points from point blank to 200 yards range.
When the ladder is folded down, the sight is supposed to be regulated to shoot point of aim/point of impact at 200 yards with smokeless and 100 yards POA/POI with blackpowder cartridges.HTH
I have the same sight. It is from a saddle ring carbine. The 0-20 graduations are equal, with each single graduation = .050" or all 20 = 1.0". This means that they are not yardage or range graduations so they must be a constant (like a Minute of Angle). How many MOA each graduation equals is based solely on the actual sight radius of your rifle. I will estimate that a 28" barrel has an approx. sight radius of 22.5" using this rear sight. That would mean that ONE MOA = .0065". Since the sight graduations are .050" they are not easily divideable into MOA's. FYI- the sight radius of a 24" barrel would yield approx. .005" per ONE MOA which is easily divided into the sight grads on this sight.
You can determine the length of one MOA on your rifle by multiplying the constant (.000291) x (the sight radius). You can then do the math to tell you what the grads on the sight actually equal based on your sight radius. Then get the actual ballistics of the load you shoot from some computer program and apply it to the sight. Easy, right?
Edited to add: alter the front sight height to zero at whatever range you want. This should be based on the caliber, a pistol caliber with black powder velocities should probably use 50 Yards, a 30-30 maybe 100 yards, and a 300 Weatherby could use 200 yards