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 My SIG 556 shoots like CRAP, should I send it back to SIG?....HELP!!! Now with Range Pic
UZI4you  [Member]
5/25/2009 1:56:54 PM EST
I have about given up on my 556.

I made a post a few months back asking for accuracy feedback from other SIG 556 owners. The then conclusion was that I need to shoot heavier bullets. Well after trying a variety of ammo (Remington 55gr FMJ, Federal 5.56 FMJ, Black Hills 55gr SP, Black Hills 60 gr V-MAX, Federal 62 gr Green tip, Black Hills 68gr Moly HP) and using a 3X9 Burris Scope and good Warren scope rings the best group I can achieve is around 3-4 MOA

This gun is shooting worst than a Ruger Mini 14

What should I do? I want to love the gun because I have always wanted a SIG 55X rifle, but this thing is a piece of crap. Should I send this rifle back to SIG to see if the rifle is out of spec? or is there anything they can do?

My serial number is in the 6,100 range if that matters.


Thanks for the help
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Codyrock67a  [Member]
5/25/2009 2:15:53 PM EST
Benched? Off hand? Supported? Sled? How are you firing it? 25, 50, or 100 yrds?
Codyrock67a  [Member]
5/25/2009 2:16:54 PM EST
Benched? Off hand? Supported? Sled? How are you firing it? 25, 50, or 100 yrds?
M4-Stag  [Team Member]
5/25/2009 2:43:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Codyrock67a:
Benched? Off hand? Supported? Sled? How are you firing it? 25, 50, or 100 yrds?

What he said twice.
deadduck357  [Member]
5/25/2009 2:52:54 PM EST
Have a gunsmith polish your muzzle. Does the crown look good ?
Gamma762  [Team Member]
5/25/2009 3:44:09 PM EST
You don't have any truly "heavy" bullets in that list, and M855 type is not known for accuracy, so you've really only tried ONE somewhat heavy bullet to try to get better accuracy.

Would suggest some 75 & 77gr OTM/match type bullets/ammo, and maybe a different brand of 68/69gr as well.
UZI4you  [Member]
5/25/2009 4:06:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Codyrock67a:
Benched? Off hand? Supported? Sled? How are you firing it? 25, 50, or 100 yrds?


Bench rest 100 yards

LockingBlock  [Team Member]
5/25/2009 4:13:18 PM EST
Have someone else shoot it...

Clean the barrel correctly (copper solvent, from the chamber end with coated rod, ect.) Inspect the bore and crown for dings.

Check your mounts for tightness, mark everything with a paint pen to detect movement in the scope rings, mounts, ect.

Shoot it with correct technique from a bench on sand bags.

Lastly, understand that 4MOA while not great is generally the standard for combat rifles. The standard for acceptance of an M-4 is 4 MOA.

UZI4you  [Member]
5/25/2009 4:16:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
You don't have any truly "heavy" bullets in that list, and M855 type is not known for accuracy, so you've really only tried ONE somewhat heavy bullet to try to get better accuracy.

Would suggest some 75 & 77gr OTM/match type bullets/ammo, and maybe a different brand of 68/69gr as well.


True, but I have two problems with that, 1) 75gr are not that plentiful in my area 2) I have 5,000 rounds of Black Hills 60 and 55gr so I want the rifle to shoot what I have.

My 1/7 Colts can shoot 55gr just fine.

Also I forgot to add my 556 is VERY inconsistent. The first shot will be close to the target the next four will be three inches to the left, the third shot will be 4 inches down etc. It looks like I shot the target with a shotgun

I have had others shoot it, and all have the same results.





WolfFox  [Team Member]
5/25/2009 4:19:20 PM EST
Send it back to the factory and let them have a look at it. I would let someone else shot it first and if it is no better. Snned it back.
Dan_Gray  [Team Member]
5/25/2009 4:57:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By UZI4you:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
You don't have any truly "heavy" bullets in that list, and M855 type is not known for accuracy, so you've really only tried ONE somewhat heavy bullet to try to get better accuracy.

Would suggest some 75 & 77gr OTM/match type bullets/ammo, and maybe a different brand of 68/69gr as well.


True, but I have two problems with that, 1) 75gr are not that plentiful in my area 2) I have 5,000 rounds of Black Hills 60 and 55gr so I want the rifle to shoot what I have.

My 1/7 Colts can shoot 55gr just fine.

Also I forgot to add my 556 is VERY inconsistent. The first shot will be close to the target the next four will be three inches to the left, the third shot will be 4 inches down etc. It looks like I shot the target with a shotgun

I have had others shoot it, and all have the same results.






Are you AF stationed in LR?

Last Friday I was at a range and a guy had a Sig 556 that should have been a very accurate rifle (except for the trigger) After seeing me shoot my M4s and knowing I know what I'm doing, he asked me to try out his sig. Same thing. At 50 yards we couldn't get it to group. I hope for Sig's sake you're the same guy. If not, 2 rifles having the same problem is a bit scary.
767fixer  [Member]
5/26/2009 8:02:10 AM EST
with that kind of inconsistency i would almost expect a sight issue. i had the same sort of thing happen to me recently. i couldnt get the rifle to group. i was using a scope and it turned out the internal erector failed. the rifle was throwing rounds everywhere in a 5 in pattern
CarnageZ28  [Member]
5/26/2009 12:38:18 PM EST
Seriously, try another scope.

Then send it back to Sig and tell them effin make it right.

4 MOA is the accepted maybe for an AK47 or Mini 14.

AR15's, M4gerys, and Sigs should be relatively easy to get 2-2.5" groups with with optics at 100 yards. Shit, my M4gery with iron sights shoots less than 2" with iron sights and a crappy trigger! 4 MOA out of a $1600+ rifle is unacceptable.

Joe
CarnageZ28  [Member]
5/26/2009 12:44:05 PM EST
Actually, FWIW - RRA actually quotes accuracy figures for their weapons and lists their 16" Entry Tactical M4 style Carbine as a 1 MOA gun. Most reputable AR15's will crack out 2" groups all day long with good ammo. Many are better than this (And I am not specifically citing the HBARs and Varmint rigs) even. I would not settle for a 4" group. And I would not want any "assualt rifle" that was that finicky about ammo. After 250 yards, the changes of hitting a MAN SIZED TARGET from a machine rest would become a numbers game. Try some more ammo, try a new scope, but def. dont settle.

And I have fired groups with mine (CMMG) that were awful close to 1" at a hundred yards with irons. If that thing wont shoot, sell it and get a CMMG Gas Piston gun ...
Wubbman  [Member]
5/26/2009 2:01:05 PM EST
I hate to tell you man, but mine is the same way with light bullets like the loads you're using. I average 3-4MOA at 100yds using Guatemalan 55gr and Winchester Q3131. On the other hand, I normally get 1.5MOA with Black Hills 77gr Match. I even get good groups with Wolf 75gr. All this is with an EOTech 557. For some reason the barrel just likes heavier bullets. Mine is a Commando variation in the 15k serial number range, FWIW. Good luck.
Apple_Juice  [Team Member]
5/28/2009 3:51:05 PM EST
Have you checked your scope mount & sights for movement during firing?
UZI4you  [Member]
5/28/2009 5:31:49 PM EST
Update:

I dropped the 556 off at the gunsmith to inspect the barrel and crown. He talked about a possible problem that he heard about the 556 with some of the early serial number guns having canted optic rails, also there were reports of the rotating bolts being off be a thousandth of an inch causing inconsistent shooting (that is a new one for me)

He said he will also check the optics to see if there has been any damage. The rings are fine.

Here is a pic from my last trip to the range. I was there to shoot another gun, but I shot the SIG just to show how extreme the groups are.

You can see there is one shot in the orange and the rest are at the left edge of the target. The shot at the bottom is from the M1A SOCOM.



lesm  [Member]
5/28/2009 8:44:22 PM EST
Sorry to hear about your accuracy problems. Mine is pretty accurate with the right ammo. I shot mine today and was getting 1.75 moa or better with 69 gr Nosler over 24gr WW748. Got slightly better than that with Sierra 77 gr over 24.1 VV N140. Then tried some 55 gr Win and that was another story. The cheap 55's were shooting 4 to 5 moa. I hope you can get something working because I think these are pretty neat guns.
tdatreefrog  [Member]
5/30/2009 5:35:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By lesm:
Sorry to hear about your accuracy problems. Mine is pretty accurate with the right ammo. I shot mine today and was getting 1.75 moa or better with 69 gr Nosler over 24gr WW748. Got slightly better than that with Sierra 77 gr over 24.1 VV N140. Then tried some 55 gr Win and that was another story. The cheap 55's were shooting 4 to 5 moa. I hope you can get something working because I think these are pretty neat guns.



Thats very suprising, mine is very accurate and honestly my 556p sbr is more accurate then 4moa. I would agree have someone else shoot it
then send it back.
filthywalrus  [Member]
6/1/2009 1:18:13 PM EST
Judging from that target something is definitely off, unless you've got one hell of a flinch.
smokingun45  [Member]
6/1/2009 2:49:57 PM EST
I had 2 identical SIG 556's...the early ones. One would hold sub 2" groups with Russian Silver Bear 62 gr HP's (my 3-gun ammo of choice) and the other one would "pattern" about a 4x6 group with the same ammo...same scope...same day...same shooter. I didn't want to deal with SIG USA, so I ditched the SIG shotgun, er, rifle and kept the other one. YMMV
deputydawg223  [Member]
6/2/2009 6:10:14 PM EST
I had the exact same problem.

Best 50 yard group I could get with any weight bullet was 4 inches and the rounds were extremely inconsistent. I spent 6 months attempting to identify the problem and could not do so. I called Sig customer service and sent the rifle back at their expense.. They had it for over 60 days and when it was returned I got no explanation of what they had done to correct the problem, but they did include a target with a nice tight group on it.

Next trip to the range gave me a rifle with about 1.5 to 2 moa groups and all the flyers were gone. I assume they changed out the barrel but have no evidence of this. There were some internet stories about bad barrels in some of the early rifles, but I have no way to know if they were valid.

Sig customer service was pleasant to deal with. It took longer to get the gun back than I thought it would, but it runs like a top now.

Call their customer service and they'll make it right by you.

Good Luck!
eriear  [Member]
6/6/2009 1:48:28 PM EST
I also had this problem my rifle was in the 19000 sn range. Tried a few times and then I figured out how to fix it.
Traded it for a brand new 6920, problem solved.

sapper326  [Member]
6/6/2009 3:15:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By eriear:
I also had this problem my rifle was in the 19000 sn range. Tried a few times and then I figured out how to fix it.
Traded it for a brand new 6920, problem solved.



This is the Sig rifles technical forum not the AR discussions forum!
squirrell18  [Member]
6/6/2009 5:59:15 PM EST
Interesting review in the shotgun news said that when the bullet weight was highest the groups were smallest. From 60-75gr the groups were smaller each time the shooter used a heavier bullet. That is strange and never happened with my other rifles with a fast twist. I would try the 75gr TAP ammo that was giving the reviewer the best groups.
GySgtD  [Team Member]
6/7/2009 5:28:59 AM EST
My 556 shoots 55gr FMJ's (non-match variety) at least 25% better than it does 75gr BTHP match.

I dunno why.
omega62  [Life Member]
6/9/2009 6:09:12 PM EST
The first shot I ever fired from my SIG-556 landed in the 10 ring at 100 yards. I was astonished.

Ammo was Remington UMC 55 grain FMJ (no frills - nothing special).

I'm afraid I can't help you with advice on what to do, but I just wanted to chime in to state that your experience is NOT the norm with these rifles - mine is outstanding.

So maybe you should call SIG and run it down to them and see what their advice is.
64tinc  [Member]
7/11/2009 10:45:36 AM EST
I have a sig 556 bought in Jan 08 and put an IOR 1.1X4 scope on it with ARMS QR rings and shoot Wolf 75 gr in it zeroed for it. I took to a pop up range and shot IDPA targets all the way out to 600 yard line they go all the way out to 1100 yards but did not attempt that. 600 yards and I was waiting for them to pop back up shot 2 at a time and waited after I dialed it in just like gravity. I get 1.3" groups with this ammo at 100 so I bought a bunch and that is all my 556 shoots now. Shot greentip and it does alright can tell more ooomph behind that round. Glad sig did you right. I have sigs and have had sigs good guns.
NoMercy  [Member]
7/11/2009 2:28:35 PM EST
This sounds just like my 556. Its in the 3k range serial # wise, It shot great with the Hornady 75gr. tap, but when I went to the m855 the groups opened up alot. I tried some Lake City xm193 55gr. and could not hit the target at 100 yards!! Dont know where the rounds were going........
E4W  [Team Member]
7/12/2009 9:56:24 AM EST
This accuracy thing sure looks to be an ongoing problem - there are multiple threads on www.sigarms556.com about accuracy problems.
squirrell18  [Member]
7/12/2009 5:12:27 PM EST
I had the same problem and my SIG is now back with them for repairs. They have had it for 6 business days. I guess I should get it back in 2 weeks.
rawheadjim  [Member]
7/12/2009 5:41:08 PM EST
They are truly inconsistent at best, the Sig forums have had tons of threads on accuracy and quality control problems. If you think the SCAR has a lot of different colors look at my early 556, it must have 6 different colors of metal on it. I just figured they were not capable of close to 1moa no matter what, but I've read threads of guys who get that. I've tried about a dozen types of ammo, lots of heavier bullets, and I can do a 3moa 3 shot group on a really good day. I've heard everything from the flash hider being torqued too tightly to barrels to bolt carriers. I had to send my 556 back since none of the rail screws could be tightened flush. It seems like almost everyone who bought one of the earlier ones had to send it back for something, but the newer ones are having better accuracy reports and less returns.
sapper326  [Member]
7/12/2009 7:36:23 PM EST
I have shot both the AR and 556 platforms extensively and I see only one area where one could claim better accuracy from an AR-15 and that would be the trigger. The Sig 556 trigger is a completely different animal than that of the AR trigger. If someone has built their semi auto 5.56mm/.223 shooting experience on an AR style rifle and then picks up a Sig 556 there will be some re train time for sure. Unfortunately Sig sets the trigger abysmally and without adjusting it you will find it very difficult to hold MOA groups. That is not to say that a skilled shooter can't do it but for someone who only goes out and plinks off 100 or so rounds during their monthly range session there will be some growing pains. I read these reports of accuracy issues and I see the main driving force behind them is unfamiliarity with the trigger and the false expectation of getting an absolutely accurate uber weapon that will shoot the wings off a fly at 300 yds without the shooter even trying. My advice to anyone wanting to use the 556 for precision shooting is to educate yourself on the rifle and its limitations and then practice practice and practice some more.

ETA; Also before anyone starts the "you will void the warranty if you adjust the trigger" crap, save it.
squirrell18  [Member]
7/13/2009 3:50:48 AM EST
Sir,

The guy at SIG told me "I might have voided my warranty by adjusting the trigger". We all know that this is bullshit but what does it say about the assclowns they hire over there? This idiot even said that I shouldn't shoot 62gr standard NATO ammo in it because it has a 1-7 twist.

I did adjust my trigger and it didn't help the groups. I had it so light it was like a nice bolt gun. My weapon was a pile of crap. They better fix it or I will go door to door and tell everyone to not buy a SIG 556. I put the trigger back to normal when I sent it in.

8" groups with Winchester M855 while my 20" AR15(colt model 6551) shots that ammo at around 2 inches with fucking open sights. Something is wrong with my rifle.

I'm sure my accuracy issues were not with the trigger or ammo. I adjusted the trigger and tried every ammo I could find.

Anyone who tries to tell me that you can't fire 55gr ammo from a 1-7 twist is a fool. I've been handloading for years and my Colt loves 55gr and pretty much every round I feed it.

The common theme from SIG seems to be that if you can't shoot well with our rifles then its not the gun its you. I thought the same thing at first but after trying many hundreds of rounds of 68gr-75gr I found none they shot well at all. Then I adjusted the trigger and added a $925 scope with LaRue mount(they never head of LaRue over at SIG). No luck then. I checked the scope mount and rail and they were tight. Tried scope on different rifle and it worked great. Tried 20X Leopold scope friend had and same thing. Maybe 2 rounds within a few inches but the rest all over the place.

When I get my rifle back I am going to go to the range with a video camera and the groups better be around 2" at least. I will shoot with all my other rifles first and you will know how well I shoot with them.
rawheadjim  [Member]
7/13/2009 5:35:34 PM EST
They can be somewhat idiotic at Sig, depends on who you talk to. A good friend of mine was a Sig dealer and you wouldn't believe the loads of crap they told him! I actually bought my 556 before my first AR. I was so enthralled with the 556 I took it shooting almost every time I went to the range, just kept the Colt in the safe for a while. I figured either I was a lousy shot, or the rifle couldn't do much better than 3moa on a good day. I figured it was worthy of a nice scope so instead of my aimpoint I put on a Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14. It didn't help much, this particular 556 just can't do better. I will try it without the flash hider, it is on extremely tight.

When I finally took my AR, a LE 6920 to the range, wow! It converted me instantly. No matter what ammo I used you couldn't miss with it, made me feel like an ok shot after all. The Colt groups around 1inch no matter what ammo, weight, or whatever I do. The 556, well, not close with mine but I know they vary a lot. I hope my Classic shoots better.
squirrell18  [Member]
7/14/2009 9:31:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By rawheadjim:
They can be somewhat idiotic at Sig, depends on who you talk to. A good friend of mine was a Sig dealer and you wouldn't believe the loads of crap they told him! I actually bought my 556 before my first AR. I was so enthralled with the 556 I took it shooting almost every time I went to the range, just kept the Colt in the safe for a while. I figured either I was a lousy shot, or the rifle couldn't do much better than 3moa on a good day. I figured it was worthy of a nice scope so instead of my aimpoint I put on a Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14. It didn't help much, this particular 556 just can't do better. I will try it without the flash hider, it is on extremely tight.

When I finally took my AR, a LE 6920 to the range, wow! It converted me instantly. No matter what ammo I used you couldn't miss with it, made me feel like an ok shot after all. The Colt groups around 1inch no matter what ammo, weight, or whatever I do. The 556, well, not close with mine but I know they vary a lot. I hope my Classic shoots better.


I just think my rifle was made on a Friday. lol

The main reason I bought a SIG 556 was after owning 14 AR15's I felt I needed something different. I wanted a rifle that I could go to the range with and those AK fans would be scared to talk smack. 1" groups and no jamming is what I signed up for. I have a feeling something is wrong with the rail or how the system is aligned because the scope looked canted. I still love the design and style but I want at least 2 inch groups.
ARCQB  [Member]
10/28/2009 2:56:39 AM EST
I have had my Sig 556 Holo for about a year now. I can't get Sig Service dept to answer E-mails or telephone calls. I refuse to wait for an hour on the telephone.
I bought into Sigs reliability and the gas gun system. So far I have not had more than a few rounds fired in a row, and it jams 4-5 times per mag. I fire one, charge it, fire another charge it, and that is how it goes. I have sent them embarrassing e-mails and routed their family history, but no response from them yet. I have bought more optiks and saw the exact appearing Holo sight in the Gander Mountain Catalogue for 69.99 made by Barska... Real nice on a gun that cost me more than two ARs.

I have had it with this POS. It will be going to the scrap yard or the next gun show. I will have to take the hit as I will not sell it to someone unless they know it is a POS and want to make a project of this crapola. I don't care what the factory says they will do at this point. It don't shoot and I would not put my life on the line with this weapon even if the threat was a paper cut from a target.

I could not tell you how accurate it isn't, as it has never fired enough rounds in a row to make a pattern, let alone a group. I have it apart again checking the internals, looking for problems, but as they don't have a troubleshooting section I have to figure the fellas are right! These guns don't have problems, it;s the shooter...

First I have heard of the problems with the bolt so I must have that issue as well, as not holding the bolt open on the last round, not stripping the next round from the mag, and two at a time on a regular basis. I have had 3 other folks shoot(Try to shoot) the gun and used several hand loaded and factory weights and types of ammo.

The flash suppressor appears to have been installed by a 3 year old with dark sunglasses.The washer is Not centered at all, but just didn't notice it before.

Sorry, but Sig bits the big one on this weapon and it's clever advertising for "Sig Reliability". I have an AK Chinese knock off that out performs this thing all day long.
Serial Number range is:027000
abpt1  [Team Member]
10/28/2009 3:01:17 AM EST
I traded mine also !
kylerudibaugh  [Team Member]
10/30/2009 5:58:31 PM EST
I have a 556 ER model, I had an issue with the bolt carrier striking the inside of the upper receiver. I called sig I sent them my gun problem resolved. I did not have the same accuracy issues that many people have described, but I am a poor shot to begin with. (I am happy with shooting between the shoulders, and in between the nuts and neck 2 or 3 shots at a time.) Anyhow I'm trying to say if you have done all you can to figure out what is wrong Sig will make it right. I have owned several sig products and will continue to do so. Naysayers be damned.
Turboguy1  [Member]
11/9/2009 1:55:12 PM EST
I've got two of the 556's and am extremely happy with them. One is the "Classic" and the other is the original style 556 non folder with fishgill foreend.

I put a decent scope on my original and at fifty yards off a bench I can shoot the twelve point font score numerals on ring targets so they're little half inch holes. At 100 yards my scoped 556 will do an inch off a bench with 55 grain cheapo ammo.

I'm using Privi Partizan 55 grain and Centurian [sic] 55 grain, both of which I bought from Aim Surplus. Surprisingly enough the best group I've ever shot was with some of my brother's 62 grain Silver Bear. If I splurged and bought match ammunition I fully expect to have one raggedy hole at 100.
squirrell18  [Team Member]
11/9/2009 5:13:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By kylerudibaugh:
I have a 556 ER model, I had an issue with the bolt carrier striking the inside of the upper receiver. I called sig I sent them my gun problem resolved. I did not have the same accuracy issues that many people have described, but I am a poor shot to begin with. (I am happy with shooting between the shoulders, and in between the nuts and neck 2 or 3 shots at a time.) Anyhow I'm trying to say if you have done all you can to figure out what is wrong Sig will make it right. I have owned several sig products and will continue to do so. Naysayers be damned.



I don't think people were badmouthing SIG just to badmouth them I think most people like myself were having serious problems. They care about sales at SIG but not about fixing the quality control issues. The guy that runs the sigarms556 forum wrote a letter to them and found that they could careless about fixing the bolt carrier wear problem and other issues and they were looking for his input.
kylerudibaugh  [Team Member]
11/9/2009 5:27:28 PM EST
I was not referring to you sir. I do thank you for posting your thread some time back about the bolt carrier issue. I see a lot of frowns around here in regards to quality control. I do agree with you that Sig does not want to admit that they have a problem. Beyond that I think if you give them a chance they will make it right. I don't believe they want to trash their reputation.
CarbonBuildup  [Team Member]
11/9/2009 5:46:05 PM EST
Look on the top front of the bolt. If there is any peening there it's from the bolt hitting the inside of the upper receiver. This isn't supposed to happen and causes the inconsistency you are experiencing. This has also caused untold frustration for owners who have tried to get this fixed. See the link below for a complete break down with pics of the damaged areas, and feedback on Sig's customer service. If this is your problem, I feel for ya'.

http://www.sigarms556.com/viewtopic.php?t=6753
Rocker  [Member]
11/9/2009 7:06:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By sapper326:
Originally Posted By eriear:
I also had this problem my rifle was in the 19000 sn range. Tried a few times and then I figured out how to fix it.
Traded it for a brand new 6920, problem solved.



This is the Sig rifles technical forum not the AR discussions forum!


Yes, but that was a wake up call.

Kinda pricey for AK accuracy! ROTF!!!!!
Turboguy1  [Member]
11/10/2009 4:11:18 PM EST
Well there are people buying DSA FAL's that DSA itself says will only shoot around 6 MOA. When I posted that I could get a $300 AK47 that can do better than 6MOA at 100 yards, and that people should just buy an M1a that'll do two inches out of the box with zero screw around, the thread magically disappeared.

That wear thing on the bolt has less than zero to do with anything in regards to accuracy. I've got moderate wear right there on my original 556 and it's MOA accurate. I don't know who keeps telling people that a half millimeter ding on the inside of a bolt carrier, that happens during chambering will affect accuracy one iota is, but I've seen *WAY* bigger dings on the inside of AR's and M16's that were match guns that shoot 1000 meters.
StonerAR10  [Member]
11/10/2009 7:19:33 PM EST
It must be a crap shoo! Mine is in the JS 266XX range and it shoots great groups with 55gr to 75gr No FTF FTE or any other problems.

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