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FFL requires my FFL for sale?
8/6/2011 9:29:29 PM
I have sold several firearms over the past few years and have only ever needed a copy of the FFL that I send firearm to. However in the past year the FFL that I’m sending the firearm to has stated that they have to have a copy of my FFL or they can’t accept the firearm/will not do the transfer. I have never heard of this and I’m wondering why they are making it a pain in the ass now since I have to have my FFL send his information to them even though he is not involved in the sale. To my knowledge I only have to have a legible copy of their FFL and they do not need my FFL for me to send them a firearm that I sold someone else.
8/6/2011 9:36:49 PM
Whats the big deal? I always toss a copy of mine in with the gun, just mark it FILE COPY ONLY and your good to go. When you get a gun in do you not like to have good info for your bound book?
8/6/2011 9:43:49 PM
I don't have a FFL so I don't need a copy if the guy I go though gets me something. I just don't know why another dealer would need a copy of his info when he didn't sell the firearm.
8/6/2011 9:52:27 PM
Some won't accept transfers from individuals at all. Most I've dealt with that do at least want a copy of the sender's driver's license.
There's no reason they *can't* accept it from an individual though.
There's no reason they *can't* accept it from an individual though.
8/6/2011 9:56:23 PM
Originally Posted By CaverX:
Some won't accept transfers from individuals at all. Most I've dealt with that do at least want a copy of the sender's driver's license.
There's no reason they *can't* accept it from an individual though.
Some won't accept transfers from individuals at all. Most I've dealt with that do at least want a copy of the sender's driver's license.
There's no reason they *can't* accept it from an individual though.
That's what I thought, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Thanks for the info.
8/7/2011 1:13:48 AM
Originally Posted By titanium132:
I have sold several firearms over the past few years and have only ever needed a copy of the FFL that I send firearm to. However in the past year the FFL that I’m sending the firearm to has stated that they have to have a copy of my FFL or they can’t accept the firearm/will not do the transfer. I have never heard of this and I’m wondering why they are making it a pain in the ass now since I have to have my FFL send his information to them even though he is not involved in the sale. To my knowledge I only have to have a legible copy of their FFL and they do not need my FFL for me to send them a firearm that I sold someone else.
I have sold several firearms over the past few years and have only ever needed a copy of the FFL that I send firearm to. However in the past year the FFL that I’m sending the firearm to has stated that they have to have a copy of my FFL or they can’t accept the firearm/will not do the transfer. I have never heard of this and I’m wondering why they are making it a pain in the ass now since I have to have my FFL send his information to them even though he is not involved in the sale. To my knowledge I only have to have a legible copy of their FFL and they do not need my FFL for me to send them a firearm that I sold someone else.
Huh?
Are you a dealer or not? Your use of the term "my FFL" in the above paragraph is contradictory.
If you (a nonlicensee) ship a firearm you sure as hell better not be sending the FFL of a dealer who had nothing to do with the transfer. The receiving dealer needs to record the identity (name & address) of the nonlicensee or the FFL# of the licensed dealer who shipped the firearm. If you are not a dealer and send someone elses FFL with your gun you are causing the receiving dealer to record the acquisition in error. That's a pretty serious situation and would certainly raise questions with ATF as to why you are attempting to deceive the receiving dealer.
If you are a dealer, you should be aware that it is a long standing courtesy among dealers to include a copy of their FFL with the firearm. 99% of the firearms I receive from dealers and manufacturers have a FFL copy in the box. The other 1% forgot to include it or their FFL# is printed on the invoice/packing slip.
An increasing number of dealers are refusing to accept shipments from nonlicensees because the firearm arrives without any information as to the identity of the shipper or even who the firearm is to be transferred to. I get a shipment like that three times a month.
8/9/2011 11:36:59 PM
+1 on getting those shipments in. We had had trouble in the past with individuals demanding a copy of our license which we do not provide. We have also had guns come in with initials and City and state only for the return address. No DL as requested.
8/22/2011 6:42:09 PM
He's correct in needing a copy of the FFL of the dealer who is sending him the gun, because thats who he is accepting the firearm from and logging it into his books from.
Your dealer logs it in from you
Your delaer then ships it and logs it out to the other dealer
The other dealer logs it in from your dealer
The other dealer logs it out to who you sold it to.
There is a legal transfer process between the two dealers even though you sold the gun to someone else.
Your dealer logs it in from you
Your delaer then ships it and logs it out to the other dealer
The other dealer logs it in from your dealer
The other dealer logs it out to who you sold it to.
There is a legal transfer process between the two dealers even though you sold the gun to someone else.
8/22/2011 7:02:11 PM
Originally Posted By Guido1:
He's correct in needing a copy of the FFL of the dealer who is sending him the gun, because thats who he is accepting the firearm from and logging it into his books from.
Your dealer logs it in from you
Your delaer then ships it and logs it out to the other dealer
The other dealer logs it in from your dealer
The other dealer logs it out to who you sold it to.
There is a legal transfer process between the two dealers even though you sold the gun to someone else.
He's correct in needing a copy of the FFL of the dealer who is sending him the gun, because thats who he is accepting the firearm from and logging it into his books from.
Your dealer logs it in from you
Your delaer then ships it and logs it out to the other dealer
The other dealer logs it in from your dealer
The other dealer logs it out to who you sold it to.
There is a legal transfer process between the two dealers even though you sold the gun to someone else.
What if the person selling the gun is not a dealer?
8/22/2011 7:10:04 PM
Originally Posted By Bhart89:
What if the person selling the gun is not a dealer?
Originally Posted By Guido1:
He's correct in needing a copy of the FFL of the dealer who is sending him the gun, because thats who he is accepting the firearm from and logging it into his books from.
Your dealer logs it in from you
Your delaer then ships it and logs it out to the other dealer
The other dealer logs it in from your dealer
The other dealer logs it out to who you sold it to.
There is a legal transfer process between the two dealers even though you sold the gun to someone else.
He's correct in needing a copy of the FFL of the dealer who is sending him the gun, because thats who he is accepting the firearm from and logging it into his books from.
Your dealer logs it in from you
Your delaer then ships it and logs it out to the other dealer
The other dealer logs it in from your dealer
The other dealer logs it out to who you sold it to.
There is a legal transfer process between the two dealers even though you sold the gun to someone else.
What if the person selling the gun is not a dealer?
Then he should get a copy of the individuals drivers license so he can log the gun in from the individual.
BUT...once an individual brings a gun to a dealer to ship for him, the dealer is now in the chain of custody and it has to be logged in from him, not the individual.
8/22/2011 7:54:21 PM
That's the new thing here, none of my local gunshops will accept a transfer from an individual anymore. I think it's bullshit, but they all claim some nonsense about "not knowing anything about the other guy" or "kitchen table dealers" [ignoring the fact that if they were a dealer they would have a FFL...] but I think it's actually a way to discourage private sales in order to push their own [higher profit] guns. I even have had one dealer try to tell me the ATF requires it.... then the same dealer told me he charges $100 for a transfer...
9/3/2011 12:49:21 AM
Originally Posted By CaverX:
Some won't accept transfers from individuals at all. Most I've dealt with that do at least want a copy of the sender's driver's license.
There's no reason they *can't* accept it from an individual though.
Some won't accept transfers from individuals at all. Most I've dealt with that do at least want a copy of the sender's driver's license.
There's no reason they *can't* accept it from an individual though.
I still accept firearms from private individuals but only under the following conditions.
I get e mailed a photocopy of a state issued ID along with the buyers name address and contact info. A description of the firearm to include make, model, caliber and serial number.
Then I provide the needed information for the seller to ship the firearm to me for transfer. I request a copy of the information again be included in the box, but of course there are a few who don't and ship through a UPS store.
9/7/2011 11:54:28 PM
Originally Posted By barrysuperhawk:
in order to push their own [higher profit] guns.
in order to push their own [higher profit] guns.
LMAO now that is funny. Have you seen the profit margin in the firearms industry. There is very little to no "profit" in gun sale.
Maybe ammo and accessories but not firearms. Think about it, a $1000 MSRP firearm, costs the dealer $850. Then it sits on the rack for a few weeks to months. You clean, it baby sit it, advertise it, and finally sell it for $900 to free up some cash and wall space. Just to do it all over again.
9/8/2011 11:29:58 AM
Originally Posted By MikePatterson:
LMAO now that is funny. Have you seen the profit margin in the firearms industry. There is very little to no "profit" in gun sale.
Maybe ammo and accessories but not firearms. Think about it, a $1000 MSRP firearm, costs the dealer $850. Then it sits on the rack for a few weeks to months. You clean, it baby sit it, advertise it, and finally sell it for $900 to free up some cash and wall space. Just to do it all over again.
Originally Posted By barrysuperhawk:
in order to push their own [higher profit] guns.
in order to push their own [higher profit] guns.
LMAO now that is funny. Have you seen the profit margin in the firearms industry. There is very little to no "profit" in gun sale.
Maybe ammo and accessories but not firearms. Think about it, a $1000 MSRP firearm, costs the dealer $850. Then it sits on the rack for a few weeks to months. You clean, it baby sit it, advertise it, and finally sell it for $900 to free up some cash and wall space. Just to do it all over again.
So unfortunately true and it's such a huge combination of manu's, distributors, big box stores, the internet and yes, even to some extent "KT dealers" that have changed the industry. The last of these is the last to show up and has the least effect in my opinion, but then I am biased since we are one. Title II weapons have a much better margin and that is what we focus on now - and even in this case, some manu's try to stick us with low margins, map pricing that they ignore for their preferred clients and poor customer service. (Once waited nearly 4 weeks for a manu to mail forms to ATF on a two can order - cans they SAID they had in stock when we placed the order and paid.) We don't do business with that company any longer.
Dealers need to change and adapt to stay in business.
I feel badly for the guys who run a shop that do not have either A: an on-site range or B: do business on the internet. I think without one of those options green lighted that a retail gunshops days are unfortunately, numbered.
