AR15.Com Archives
 WTK - Storage requiremnts?
bmmc  [Team Member]
8/17/2009 6:16:25 PM EST
I'm not a FFL but was curious about storage requirements.

If you a home based FFL are you required to have a safe? I assume so.

Can you store personal guns in the same safe with inventory or transfer guns?

Are you allowed to transfer guns to yourself, say you take a nice trade? And you need to log private sales?

Thanks in advance.

Mike

Paid Advertisement
--
dbailey223  [Member]
8/17/2009 7:15:49 PM EST
From memory, so don't flame me guys:

A safe isn't required. Secure storage or some word combo like that is required. Trigger locks are even mentioned if I recall right?

You can store personal guns with inventory, but the personal ones are to be clealy labeled as such.

By transfer to yourself, do you mean if your FFL is an entity? If so, you can transfer to yourself, but log them in the disposition/acquisition book and do the Form 4473


DogtownTom  [Team Member]
8/17/2009 7:15:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By bmmc:
I'm not a FFL but was curious about storage requirements.

If you a home based FFL are you required to have a safe? I assume so.

Can you store personal guns in the same safe with inventory or transfer guns?

Are you allowed to transfer guns to yourself, say you take a nice trade? And you need to log private sales?

Thanks in advance.

Mike



ATF only requires "secure storage". That could be a safe, closet with a lock, or a rusty chain run through the trigger guard.

Any personal firearms on the licensed premises need to be identified as "personal- not for sale". You can use a second safe for personal firearms and label the safe as "personal". ATF doesn't want to find guns in your safe that don't match up with your 4473's or bound book. Brownells's actually makes a tag if you are incapable of making one yourself : http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=21336/Product/BATF__PERSONAL_FIREARMS__TAGS

Any firearm you acquire should be recorded in your bound book. If you buy a firearm for yourself, you can note that the disposition is to you. You do not have to complete a 4473. If you later decide to sell that gun then you need to note the acquisition from "yourself" and disposition to the buyer.

Buy, sell, swap, trade, barter are all treated the same- you either acquire a firearm or dispose a firearm. And you record every transaction.

Not sure what you mean by "private sale". If you mean selling a firearm from your personal collection, then yes, you should log it in the bound book.












bmmc  [Team Member]
8/17/2009 7:29:20 PM EST
Thanks for the answers guys.

DogtownTom - you're correct, I was thinking about firearms I already own.
Guido1  [Team Member]
8/18/2009 6:10:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By bmmc:
I'm not a FFL but was curious about storage requirements.

If you a home based FFL are you required to have a safe? I assume so.

Can you store personal guns in the same safe with inventory or transfer guns?

Are you allowed to transfer guns to yourself, say you take a nice trade? And you need to log private sales?

Thanks in advance.

Mike



If you buy a firearm for yourself, you can note that the disposition is to you. You do not have to complete a 4473. If you later decide to sell that gun then you need to note the acquisition from "yourself" and disposition to the buyer.














This does not work if your a corp or LLC. Its only if your name is the name on the FFL. ex. I own an LLC (New Frontier Armory, LLC) New Frontier Armory is the FFL holder, not me, so if I want to buy a gun, I have to acquire it like any other customer of mine and do a 4473.

DogtownTom  [Team Member]
8/18/2009 12:52:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By Guido1:

Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By bmmc:
I'm not a FFL but was curious about storage requirements.

If you a home based FFL are you required to have a safe? I assume so.

Can you store personal guns in the same safe with inventory or transfer guns?

Are you allowed to transfer guns to yourself, say you take a nice trade? And you need to log private sales?

Thanks in advance.

Mike



If you buy a firearm for yourself, you can note that the disposition is to you. You do not have to complete a 4473. If you later decide to sell that gun then you need to note the acquisition from "yourself" and disposition to the buyer.














This does not work if your a corp or LLC. Its only if your name is the name on the FFL. ex. I own an LLC (New Frontier Armory, LLC) New Frontier Armory is the FFL holder, not me, so if I want to buy a gun, I have to acquire it like any other customer of mine and do a 4473.


Absolutely correct.
substandard  [Team Member]
8/18/2009 2:58:48 PM EST
Basically "secure storage" means that the ATF agent that does the FFL inspection is satisfied that you are taking reasonable precautions.
sawgunner73  [Member]
8/20/2009 9:03:07 AM EST
As far as secure storage for your inventory firearms, there is no requirement for you to have a safe or any other security for the firearms. You can just lean them against the wall in your business area if you want to. The Secure Gun Storage Provision in the law refers to FFLs being required to have safety/storage devices, such as trigger locks or cable locks, available for sale to the customers.
bmmc  [Team Member]
8/20/2009 9:08:20 AM EST
Interesting, I was worried they'd require that I had a safe to secure inventory.
GunCat  [Team Member]
8/20/2009 5:56:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By bmmc:
Interesting, I was worried they'd require that I had a safe to secure inventory.


IIRC the only comment concerning all this my FFL agent ever mentioned as we walked into the shop was "You've got a metal door...that's good"
rubble  [Team Member]
8/22/2009 4:43:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By substandard:
Basically "secure storage" means that the ATF agent that does the FFL inspection is satisfied that you are taking reasonable precautions.


I love the very defined wording, "reasonable precautions."

In other words, completely up to thee individual inspector and the mood their in that day.
DogtownTom  [Team Member]
8/23/2009 4:38:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By rubble:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Basically "secure storage" means that the ATF agent that does the FFL inspection is satisfied that you are taking reasonable precautions.


I love the very defined wording, "reasonable precautions."

In other words, completely up to thee individual inspector and the mood their in that day.


That is substandards term, not ATF's, so the inspectors mood has nothing to do with it.

Here is the actual certification form: http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f530042.pdf

Paid Advertisement
--