AR15.Com Archives
 Best magazine for a RFB?
westford86  [Team Member]
6/19/2011 8:53:49 PM
I picked up a RFB about two months ago. So far it's been a pretty good gun (some grievances I won't get into here), the only thing so far is that it's rejected the after market mags I've purchased for it...

It should be known that I have only tried two magazines other than the factory one it comes with, and they are both oddballs. The first was a 20rnd Korean manufactured one that AIM is selling, and the second is a 30rnd DSA from their recent batch that just hit the market. The Korean mag simply will not feed, the bolt will close about half way then just stop. The 30rnd DSA mag functioned just fine until you got to the last 5-7 rounds. At which point a round would get pinched at the neck between the bolt and chamber (see picture).

I just wanted to let fellow RFB owners to know that the KMI, and 30rnd DSA mags are not the best choice.

The Main reason I'm starting this thread is that I would like to get feedback from RFB owners as to which magazines they have had the most success with. I've been told that surplus IMI magazines are good, but I want to confirm this before spending a significant amount on magazines, that might just fail like the other two I've tried...

Does anyone know who is supplying Kel Tek with the magazines they include with the RFB?

Is anyone making an improved follower for FAL mags, much like what Magpul did with anti-tilt followers for AR mags? I don't have any specific reason to think the followers might be the root of my problems, but it's a variable I'd like to troubleshoot.




I do wish the 30 rounder worked properly, because it looks ridiculous. The whole thing reminds me of the guns that the terminators are wielding in the beginning of T2


scatterbrains  [Member]
6/19/2011 9:44:40 PM
seems like it could be a mag spring issue have u tried stretching the mag spring? not an ideal "fix" but may help troubleshoot
ds3_09  [Member]
6/19/2011 10:11:35 PM
Keltec is just uses reconditioned metric fal mags. I am supposed to get a batch from a guy this week that removes any surface rust etc and then applies a heat treated finish (several colors available).

I will let you know my opinion on them after receiving them.
westford86  [Team Member]
6/20/2011 8:24:01 AM
Originally Posted By scatterbrains:
seems like it could be a mag spring issue have u tried stretching the mag spring? not an ideal "fix" but may help troubleshoot


That's a good idea, I'll give it a try next time I'm out at the range.

Originally Posted By ds3_09:
Keltec is just uses reconditioned metric fal mags. I am supposed to get a batch from a guy this week that removes any surface rust etc and then applies a heat treated finish (several colors available).

I will let you know my opinion on them after receiving them.


I'm looking forward to hearing how they turn out. Does this guy have a website?

It's to bad FAL mags have gotten so expensive since Kel Tek first conceived the RFB, I wish they would have just gone with DPMS pattern mags at this point...

Redhed97  [Member]
6/20/2011 12:21:34 PM
I got a dozen of the best condition Steyr metric FAL mags I could find. No problems.
Rhinox  [Member]
6/20/2011 12:23:03 PM
I think it was a bad idea to make a rifle that NOBODY makes NEW Mags for. This is most peoples number one complaint, not finding good magazines.

I have about 5. All purchased from Local Gun shows. They all seem to run ok but I have FTF every once in awhile and I think it can be attributed to ancient magazines,
robertmegar  [Team Member]
6/20/2011 5:31:07 PM
Steyr mags and IMI mags work great. I also have a coated or painted???? black magazine which I thought was one of those crappy Korean ones but it works perfectly so I don't know who made it (recoditioned IMI?)
Surly  [Member]
6/20/2011 7:21:31 PM
I have used Steyr's, Israeli's, and a few unknown's to include an aluminum mag with no problems. I want to try one of the DSA 30's.
MaxxII  [Team Member]
6/20/2011 8:28:19 PM
How do the DSA 20 round mags work? Is it plausible that its something with the 30 rounders specifically? Spring is too strong maybe?

Nick
westford86  [Team Member]
6/20/2011 8:45:11 PM
Originally Posted By MaxxII:
How do the DSA 20 round mags work? Is it plausible that its something with the 30 rounders specifically? Spring is too strong maybe?

Nick


I haven't tried a 20rnd DSA mag, but if I get my hands on one I'll report back here. I'm going to guess that it's likely an issue specific to the 30rnd mag, as I haven't heard many complaints about the 20 rounders and there are is a smattering of complaints on the internet about the 30 rounders...

For now I'm going to focus on getting some IMI or Styer mags, because so far that seems to be what's working for everyone here.
powerpimp  [Team Member]
6/21/2011 9:36:28 AM
I have only had problems with the DSA 20's. That was almost a year ago and they took care of me and replaced their faulty mags with Steyrs.
I currently run a mix of Steyrs, IMI and aluminum mags with great results. I would like to try a Bren mag someday but no desire to try a the
Korean product. The problem with my DSA magazines appeared to be very sharp feed lips snagging rounds.
HardShell  [Moderator]
6/21/2011 11:10:21 AM

... I think it was a bad idea to make a rifle that NOBODY makes NEW Mags for. This is most peoples number one complaint, not finding good magazines...

I'll respectfully disagree, and here's why:

When the RFB was in development, concerns about a new AWB were real and, IMHO, not unreasonable.

IF they had gone with a new, proprietary mag or a more recent existing-production mag (SR-25/DPMS, AR-10, etc.) and IF there had been a new AWB, mags >10 rounds would have been scarce. By going with a long-existing mag like the FAL (or H&K, or arguably even the M1A) they were hedging their bets against a new AWB by way of millions of existing mags (albeit in widely various condition) that might have been grandfathered in. How many total existing AR-10 mags are out there in circulation somewhere today compared to FAL mags?

(I am NOT saying this was their deciding factor –– for all I know, it had everything to do with their design parameters, etc.)

FAL mags wouldn't have been my first choice, personally, but it certainly wasn't the worst choice they could have made IMO. I would have been happier if they had gone with the SR-25/DPMS pattern, esp. now that Magpul makes one. And had they gone with a new, proprietary magazine I simply wouldn't have bought an RFB at all. YMMV.

Rhinox  [Member]
6/21/2011 12:37:26 PM
If there was an AWB wouldn't it be illegal to even buy an RFB at that point? In which case magazines wouldn't matter very much.

I think when designing a new rifle you should have an ample stock of american made magazines, or at least easily sourced IN America. They don't need to be proprietary, but I think they could have done better than what they did. Especially considering the design of the RFB's magwell which prohibits the use of some FAL magazines. They limited themselves even more with that choice.
westford86  [Team Member]
6/21/2011 1:03:45 PM
At this point I'm just hoping that Kel Tek releases a second generation RFB that takes SR-25/DPMS mags. These days they're cheaper than FAL mags, readily available (new and used), and just plain better.

However I can't hold it agains Kel Tek for going with FAL mags, there decision has it's merits. As always hindsight is 20/20...
HardShell  [Moderator]
6/21/2011 2:05:10 PM

Originally Posted By Rhinox:
If there was an AWB wouldn't it be illegal to even buy an RFB at that point? In which case magazines wouldn't matter very much...

It would depend on the ban in question, there have been several recent proposals for high-cap mag bans that didn't even mention the firearms themselves.

(My fault, though, for using the "AWB" shorthand in my post; I properly should have said "AWB or magazine ban" or just simply "ban/legislation.")

vxtip545  [Member]
6/21/2011 3:01:00 PM
Check numerich aka gunpartscorp.com for cheaper surplus fal mags. Like $13.50 last i checked, somewhat rusty, various quality and could use new springs/followers probably. I haven't shot mine enough to say how reliable they are. Moses (CMP Armory) on Falfiles is almost ready to release his polymer Fal mag, its made out of the same stuff as pmags, it looks promising, price will be $23-25, I can't remember exactly. I'd keep an eye open for these to be ready soon
patswin3  [Member]
6/21/2011 7:55:29 PM
What I find amazing is that companies can't use all this modern technology to copy a 50yr old design and actually make it function as the original???? WTF? By the way, I use surplus Steyr mags, no problems.
robertmegar  [Team Member]
6/21/2011 9:28:33 PM
Funny thing is that KelTec and Knight's Armament are about 70 miles from each other. You would think sharing mags and their manufacturing would have been a good idea.
ds3_09  [Member]
6/21/2011 9:41:16 PM
I'll post pics of my mags when I get them. No he doesn't have a website. He sells them on gunbroker. I paid $27 per mag which isn't cheap but I expect they will look basically new and with a durable finish.

I asked him about surface rust inside and he told me he would check them all and neutralize any surface rust inside the mags if I bought 10 mags or more so I did that.

He appears to sell various mags and surplus parts on gunbroker. He had 100% feedback I think. I will post pics soon.

RRA will have their polymer mags soon. I don't know if they are metric though.

I ordered a bunch or LAR-8 20rd mags from RRA as the pics on their website show metric mags. They were phenomenally reconditioned but they were inch mags. They charged me 20% to return them but I just contested it with my card since the pics didn't represent what I got and I won.
SilentType  [Member]
6/21/2011 11:16:36 PM
When it comes to FALs whether kits or mags I've got to give it to Steyr for being the best of the bunch.
03PSD  [Team Member]
6/22/2011 9:17:16 PM
The guys over at the KTOG who are running the DSA 30's are reporting excellent results. Are you sure your feed ramp doesnt need a little polishing? I had KT go through my RFB during the early bolt heat treating issues and thankfully mine wasnt affected but while they had it, the tech polished the feed ramp and test fired it and it feeds real well. You may want to check that out.
ds3_09  [Member]
6/22/2011 11:22:24 PM
I got my mags. They are ok but not quite as nice as I would have hoped. Basically I think I could have done just as good as a job with some Alumahyde II (which can be heat treated to be much more durabe). They just look more like rattle can finish than an airbrush per say. I'm not upset because frankly I didn't want to fuck with it myself. They are all Austrian mags and the finish seems durable. They seem good to go as far as function. I was going to post contact info but they are not as impressive as I was hoping.
cookhj  [Member]
6/23/2011 12:13:56 AM
Originally Posted By vxtip545:
Check numerich aka gunpartscorp.com for cheaper surplus fal mags. Like $13.50 last i checked, somewhat rusty, various quality and could use new springs/followers probably. I haven't shot mine enough to say how reliable they are. Moses (CMP Armory) on Falfiles is almost ready to release his polymer Fal mag, its made out of the same stuff as pmags, it looks promising, price will be $23-25, I can't remember exactly. I'd keep an eye open for these to be ready soon


from what i've read, Moses' mags won't work in the RFB without modification. they're designed to fit in the FAL and the mag well of the RFB is tighter than the FAL. if you go to his thread on here or at falfiles.com he mentions it. i want to say that all you have to do is take some sand paper to both sides of the mag, check fit, repeat until they fit.
Chris_1522  [Team Member]
6/24/2011 8:40:13 AM
Originally Posted By Rhinox:
I think it was a bad idea to make a rifle that NOBODY makes NEW Mags for. This is most peoples number one complaint, not finding good magazines.

I have about 5. All purchased from Local Gun shows. They all seem to run ok but I have FTF every once in awhile and I think it can be attributed to ancient magazines,


DSA makes new FAL magazines.
Crito  [Member]
6/24/2011 11:28:12 PM
wheres the best place to get standard FAL springs. I bought some surplus and few of the springs are weak. (heh for 8 bucks a mag, and they are in good codition, just springs)
westford86  [Team Member]
6/27/2011 7:57:47 PM
Originally Posted By scatterbrains:
seems like it could be a mag spring issue have u tried stretching the mag spring? not an ideal "fix" but may help troubleshoot


I stretched the spring out on the 30 rounder, and it functioned just fine today. Now if I could only find a place that sold hi-power springs for 30rnd FAL mags...

How much does stretching the springs deteriorate their longevity? Because if it doesn't affect them that much, I'm going to have to get more.
Bretshooter  [Member]
6/28/2011 1:10:31 AM
Wolff Gunsprings for FALs
westford86  [Team Member]
6/28/2011 5:25:07 AM
Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
Wolff Gunsprings for FALs


I'll have to get one for my malfunctioning Korean mag. It's to bad they don't make one for 30 rounders.

Surly  [Member]
6/28/2011 8:15:55 PM
Originally Posted By westford86:
Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
Wolff Gunsprings for FALs


I'll have to get one for my malfunctioning Korean mag. It's to bad they don't make one for 30 rounders.



All of the 30-rd mags I have encountered use 20-rd mag springs.
Afterwork_Ninja  [Team Member]
8/14/2011 6:21:58 PM
Anything new on the subject?
westford86  [Team Member]
8/14/2011 7:22:14 PM
Not really. I stretched out the spring on my Korean mag and it functioned just fine too.

I haven't had a chance to get the RFB to the range in over a month, or get new springs...

Originally Posted By Afterwork_Ninja:
Anything new on the subject?


JohnGA  [Team Member]
8/14/2011 7:50:56 PM
Got an email from Shotgun Sherri that Thermold has modified their mags to work in the Keltec. Need to find out for sure.
robertmegar  [Team Member]
8/14/2011 9:18:14 PM
True. RRA polymer mags are made by Thermold. They are similar to their metric mags (w/o the top two ribs).
Snowden  [Member]
8/16/2011 1:35:58 AM
Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
Originally Posted By Rhinox:
I think it was a bad idea to make a rifle that NOBODY makes NEW Mags for. This is most peoples number one complaint, not finding good magazines.

DSA makes new FAL magazines.

There's been posts of modifying metric FAL magazines to fit the SCAR 17S. I wonder if a SCAR 17S magazine would work unmodified in the FAL or RFB?

SCAR 17S magazines are currently hard to find, but that situation shouldn't last forever. I picked up five at a local shop, and Midway is accepting backorders.
KYLiberty  [Member]
8/17/2011 11:08:36 PM
I just received 4 polymer mags from RRA today. They fit in the RFB and I can manually cycle rounds. After popping them in and out a few times, a tiny amount was shaved off the back right corner and they seem much smoother than the factory mag, DSA 30 rounders, and 20 round Korean's I've picked up. I'm going to take it to the range either tomorrow or Friday. Depends on if I get stuck at work tomorrow. I'lll let you all know the results.

Here's the RFB with a RRA 20 round polymer mag.

westford86  [Team Member]
8/17/2011 11:23:19 PM
Originally Posted By KYLiberty:
I just received 4 polymer mags from RRA today. They fit in the RFB and I can manually cycle rounds. After popping them in and out a few times, a tiny amount was shaved off the back right corner and they seem much smoother than the factory mag, DSA 30 rounders, and 20 round Korean's I've picked up. I'm going to take it to the range either tomorrow or Friday. Depends on if I get stuck at work tomorrow. I'lll let you all know the results.

Here's the RFB with a RRA 20 round polymer mag.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc250/KYLiberty/f1ad71c2.jpg


For $20 a pop, they're tempting... However, thermold, not known for quality...

Let us know how it goes.
KYLiberty  [Member]
8/17/2011 11:41:11 PM
Originally Posted By westford86:
Originally Posted By KYLiberty:
I just received 4 polymer mags from RRA today. They fit in the RFB and I can manually cycle rounds. After popping them in and out a few times, a tiny amount was shaved off the back right corner and they seem much smoother than the factory mag, DSA 30 rounders, and 20 round Korean's I've picked up. I'm going to take it to the range either tomorrow or Friday. Depends on if I get stuck at work tomorrow. I'lll let you all know the results.

Here's the RFB with a RRA 20 round polymer mag.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc250/KYLiberty/f1ad71c2.jpg


For $20 a pop, they're tempting... However, thermold, not known for quality...

Let us know how it goes.


Yes, Thermold is very worrying. However, RRA has been working with them for many months before finally accepting this round of them. I only picked up 4 of them, so if they don't work out well I'm not out much. If they do work well, there is a new source of affordable mags for the RFB.

Afterwork_Ninja  [Team Member]
8/18/2011 10:28:36 AM
Originally Posted By KYLiberty:
Originally Posted By westford86:
Originally Posted By KYLiberty:
I just received 4 polymer mags from RRA today. They fit in the RFB and I can manually cycle rounds. After popping them in and out a few times, a tiny amount was shaved off the back right corner and they seem much smoother than the factory mag, DSA 30 rounders, and 20 round Korean's I've picked up. I'm going to take it to the range either tomorrow or Friday. Depends on if I get stuck at work tomorrow. I'lll let you all know the results.

Here's the RFB with a RRA 20 round polymer mag.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc250/KYLiberty/f1ad71c2.jpg


For $20 a pop, they're tempting... However, thermold, not known for quality...

Let us know how it goes.


Yes, Thermold is very worrying. However, RRA has been working with them for many months before finally accepting this round of them. I only picked up 4 of them, so if they don't work out well I'm not out much. If they do work well, there is a new source of affordable mags for the RFB.



How reliable has your DSA 30 round mag been?
westford86  [Team Member]
8/18/2011 1:03:37 PM
Originally Posted By Afterwork_Ninja:
Originally Posted By KYLiberty:
Originally Posted By westford86:
Originally Posted By KYLiberty:
I just received 4 polymer mags from RRA today. They fit in the RFB and I can manually cycle rounds. After popping them in and out a few times, a tiny amount was shaved off the back right corner and they seem much smoother than the factory mag, DSA 30 rounders, and 20 round Korean's I've picked up. I'm going to take it to the range either tomorrow or Friday. Depends on if I get stuck at work tomorrow. I'lll let you all know the results.

Here's the RFB with a RRA 20 round polymer mag.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc250/KYLiberty/f1ad71c2.jpg


For $20 a pop, they're tempting... However, thermold, not known for quality...

Let us know how it goes.


Yes, Thermold is very worrying. However, RRA has been working with them for many months before finally accepting this round of them. I only picked up 4 of them, so if they don't work out well I'm not out much. If they do work well, there is a new source of affordable mags for the RFB.



How reliable has your DSA 30 round mag been?


It's been decently reliable. I actually have two now. The first one required me to stretch the spring, but the second one I bought worked just fine with no modifications. They're fine for regular range use, but in the proverbial SHTF situation they wouldn't be my goto...
KYLiberty  [Member]
8/19/2011 11:18:35 PM
Well, now I have the factory mag, a 20 round Korean, and a 30 round DSA that work well. I also have a 20 round Korean, a 30 round DSA, and 4 RRA polymers that don't work well. The RRA's jam while chambering fairly often. The RFB also doesn't grab a round out of them at all sometimes.
westford86  [Team Member]
8/19/2011 11:58:13 PM
Originally Posted By KYLiberty:
Well, now I have the factory mag, a 20 round Korean, and a 30 round DSA that work well. I also have a 20 round Korean, a 30 round DSA, and 4 RRA polymers that don't work well. The RRA's jam while chambering fairly often. The RFB also doesn't grab a round out of them at all sometimes.


That sounds like the same problem I was having with my Korean and DSA 30rnd, try stretching the spring on one of the RRA mags...
Afterwork_Ninja  [Team Member]
8/20/2011 9:53:28 AM
Now available with 100% more bayonet lug.



http://keltecweapons.com/product/rfb-bayonet-lug/
KYLiberty  [Member]
8/20/2011 12:49:29 PM
I'll try stretching the springs on the DSA and Korean that don't work well. I'll also try stretching the spring on one of the RRA's. Bud's doesn't rifle calibers on Saturday, so I'll see if that works during my weekly evening rifle shooting next week. I'm off to do my weekly pistol and rimfire shooting now.
westford86  [Team Member]
8/20/2011 1:12:11 PM


Allright! That's exactly what everyone wasn't asking for...

I just don't get the appeal of bayonets...
Afterwork_Ninja  [Team Member]
8/20/2011 1:50:22 PM
Originally Posted By westford86:


Allright! That's exactly what everyone wasn't asking for...

I just don't get the appeal of bayonets...


I just saw it over on the Kel-Tec forums, so I posted it in the couple RFB threads here in my subscriptions folder. I don't find it practical, but I know some guys like them, so I was just spreading the word. Sorry.
westford86  [Team Member]
8/20/2011 2:13:15 PM
Originally Posted By Afterwork_Ninja:
Originally Posted By westford86:


Allright! That's exactly what everyone wasn't asking for...

I just don't get the appeal of bayonets...


I just saw it over on the Kel-Tec forums, so I posted it in the couple RFB threads here in my subscriptions folder. I don't find it practical, but I know some guys like them, so I was just spreading the word. Sorry.


I wan't trying to come off as a dick. I was just poking fun at the accessory...
ormandj  [Member]
8/27/2011 2:42:30 PM
I like the Steyr magazines. Just picked up 10 more @ $15 a pop, with only slight finish wear. Some still had 'Made in Austria' stickers on them:



Function perfectly, and have witness holes.
Afterwork_Ninja  [Team Member]
8/27/2011 3:39:39 PM
Originally Posted By ormandj:
I like the Steyr magazines. Just picked up 10 more @ $15 a pop, with only slight finish wear. Some still had 'Made in Austria' stickers on them:

http://ormandj.corenode.com/images/rfb/stg58_magazines-small.jpg

Function perfectly, and have witness holes.


Where did you get them from?
westford86  [Team Member]
8/27/2011 10:53:29 PM
Originally Posted By Afterwork_Ninja:
Originally Posted By ormandj:
I like the Steyr magazines. Just picked up 10 more @ $15 a pop, with only slight finish wear. Some still had 'Made in Austria' stickers on them:

http://ormandj.corenode.com/images/rfb/stg58_magazines-small.jpg

Function perfectly, and have witness holes.


Where did you get them from?


Pleas do reveal your source. That's a pretty good price.
ormandj  [Member]
8/28/2011 1:21:51 AM
Originally Posted By westford86:
Originally Posted By Afterwork_Ninja:
Originally Posted By ormandj:
I like the Steyr magazines. Just picked up 10 more @ $15 a pop, with only slight finish wear. Some still had 'Made in Austria' stickers on them:

http://ormandj.corenode.com/images/rfb/stg58_magazines-small.jpg

Function perfectly, and have witness holes.


Where did you get them from?


Pleas do reveal your source. That's a pretty good price.


gunbroker is where I got them. Hint, 'styer' is what I found them under. Amazing what you find when you search for mis-spellings. Let the guy know I sent you his way if you do buy from him. I know I'm killing my source for magazines by posting this, but he's a good guy, and I have what I need (for now).
Surly  [Member]
8/28/2011 9:24:43 AM
Originally Posted By westford86:
Allright! That's exactly what everyone wasn't asking for...

I just don't get the appeal of bayonets...


You don't need to get the appeal. If I want a lug on my rifle, I should be able to have one because it is MY rifle. This is exactly the kind of shit that adds fuel to the lefty fire when they concoct ridiculous shit like assault weapon bans. I'm going to get one because I don't like bare threads...it'll probably never have a bayonet attached if that makes you feel better.