AR15.Com Archives
 M17 A3
tiger222  [Member]
10/8/2010 5:36:49 PM
Sent my M17S upper to Ken at K&M Aerospace in Chandler.
He was extremely receptive to my requests to convert my
"dog" into exactly what I wanted.

I really like my M17s, had KKF do a mod way back,
it was his 1st and it showed. Very rough and seemed like he didn't
pay alot of attention to details. Fast forward almost 10 years on
saw a thread about a machinist in AZ and wanted to take action.

Emailed Ken and he took the time to actually make a drawing of what
I had envisioned!! And when I finally got the upper to him he was able
to turn it around super fast. To say the least I am thrilled with it.

I wanted to evoke the look of the L85A2 with the HK AG36 on it,
so he made the reciever tube with the AG36 style vent holes,
and designed and installed a side offset charging handle like the L85A2.

Put on a Hensoldt Blitz scope that I've had for a long while and it
looks somewhat Steyr Aug A3 ish.

Also had him make and install a very robust kydex cheek piece.

Many thanks to Ken who is a super guy and really goes out of his way.
This gun is still HEAVY, but very handy, under 30" but over the federal
26". It will get it's shake down this weekend hopefully. I've changed out the A1 birdcage to a Vortex G6 I had and will be adding a K grip in front.



joedirt1977  [Member]
10/8/2010 5:42:25 PM
That is an awesome rifle, man. Thanks for sharing.
Friendly_Crusader  [Member]
10/8/2010 5:53:40 PM
yeah, thats a really cool mod they did! makes me regret passing one up in 07 for $500
SilentType  [Team Member]
10/8/2010 6:35:05 PM
Maybe we should petition Bushmaster to bring back the M17 with an updated look like that?




Friendly_Crusader  [Member]
10/8/2010 7:08:37 PM
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Maybe we should petition Bushmaster to bring back the M17 with an updated look like that?






and a better trigger bar capture housing
Dawg180  [Team Member]
10/8/2010 7:24:51 PM
Ddue, that looks great. The stock M17 needs some work, but sometimes guys seem to go a wee bit overboard on the mods. Yours looks very functional with a good eye for aesthetics all rolled into one. Looks like a scifi gun that James Cameron would have thought up, and would be home right along side the M41A pulse rifle.
kfeltenberger  [Team Member]
10/8/2010 9:13:58 PM
This is one of the best graphic examples of someone turning a sow's ear into a silk purse. This is a fantastic looking rifle! I really like the vents; they're there, but don't dominate the receiver.
MadDogDan  [Member]
10/9/2010 12:23:48 AM
Anyone make a left hand conversion (ie: cut a left side ejection port and modify the bolt) for the M17? The M17 are certainly inexpensive enough and I could always use another bullpup in the stable but I am a lefty.

MadDog
R_Fury  [Team Member]
10/10/2010 7:54:16 PM
That rifle is sexy as hell.
Dawg180  [Team Member]
10/10/2010 8:25:04 PM
Originally Posted By MadDogDan:
Anyone make a left hand conversion (ie: cut a left side ejection port and modify the bolt) for the M17? The M17 are certainly inexpensive enough and I could always use another bullpup in the stable but I am a lefty.

MadDog


If you look through the archives a guy here was offering left hand conversion maybe 2-3 years ago. He had a website, but i don't recall it offhand.

Onslaught  [Team Member]
10/10/2010 10:03:58 PM
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By MadDogDan:
Anyone make a left hand conversion (ie: cut a left side ejection port and modify the bolt) for the M17? The M17 are certainly inexpensive enough and I could always use another bullpup in the stable but I am a lefty.

MadDog


If you look through the archives a guy here was offering left hand conversion maybe 2-3 years ago. He had a website, but i don't recall it offhand.



That's interesting... I talked to Kurt many years ago about this and he said it was not feasible because the trigger bar or something ran down the left side where an ejection port should be.

I agree, that is definitely one of the NICEST conversions I have seen. Well done!

Rocksarge  [Team Member]
10/10/2010 10:34:46 PM
very sexy
UZI4you  [Team Member]
10/10/2010 11:03:28 PM
Great looking rifle.

Makes me want to buy a M17
tiger222  [Member]
10/11/2010 12:26:06 AM
Thanks for all the kind words, took it to the range today and it ate ammo like popcorn at a scary movie,
this thing is alot of fun, the trigger is not crisp but works ok. The XM193 did not eject with alot of force
which to me means the gas port is probably a tad small for loosing 4.5" of bbl, but no worries.

Used Lancer, HK 416 and Korean 416 mags no issues, as well as of course USGI's.

I don't know if the Brits do this, but shooting from the bench with a bipod, gripping the mag as a rear
hand hold seemed to do well for support.

My only complaint is that a rubber buttpad for the end of the stock would be nice for extended range
session.

I was also pleasantly accurate with standard ammo. The optic seems well suited for 2-300 yard
metal plate stunts. Thanks again Ken!
Onslaught  [Team Member]
10/11/2010 11:34:56 AM
Doesn't the M17S have a typical Bushmaster HBAR? Did you have anything done besides the 4.5" of length cut off? Fluting or re-profiling that beast might make a big difference in the weight of the weapon.

Poor Bushmaster really missed the boat on these. If they had integrated the Carbon Fiber technology they got when they bought out Professional Ordnance (thanks Optimus) into a redesigned M17, maybe looked into ambi or left and right versions, they could have been the phenom of the bullpup market.

Bushy never gave this weapon the "love and attention" it deserved.
trkfrye  [Member]
10/11/2010 3:01:37 PM
Looks very "Bad Ass". Real nice work!
Aubie1  [Team Member]
10/11/2010 5:01:51 PM
Very nice...anyway you could take a picture of it along a standard AR15, so I can see the size difference.
R_Fury  [Team Member]
10/11/2010 5:57:31 PM
Where did you get the protective cover around the optic? Is it custom?
raf  [Site Staff]
10/11/2010 6:40:14 PM
One of these days, I might have to post pix of a highly modified M17S whose mods I helped with.

I might even reveal my Mod for the trigger system of the M17S. I had offered it to Kurt, but he never replied, and now he is gone, sadly.
Tomac  [Team Member]
10/11/2010 6:53:39 PM
If Bushmaster had only developed the M17 just a *little bit* more, it would own the US bullpup market (sigh...)
Tomac
Optimus_Prime  [Member]
10/11/2010 7:28:17 PM
Originally Posted By Onslaught:
Doesn't the M17S have a typical Bushmaster HBAR? Did you have anything done besides the 4.5" of length cut off? Fluting or re-profiling that beast might make a big difference in the weight of the weapon.

Poor Bushmaster really missed the boat on these. If they had integrated the Carbon Fiber technology they got when they bought out Auto Ordnance into a redesigned M17, maybe looked into ambi or left and right versions, they could have been the phenom of the bullpup market.

Bushy never gave this weapon the "love and attention" it deserved.


Bushmaster bought out Professional Ordnance, not Auto Ordnance. It was Kahr Arms who had bought out Auto Ordnance.
badkarmaiii  [Team Member]
10/11/2010 8:12:31 PM
Originally Posted By raf:
One of these days, I might have to post pix of a highly modified M17S whose mods I helped with.

I might even reveal my Mod for the trigger system of the M17S. I had offered it to Kurt, but he never replied, and now he is gone, sadly.


Site Staff bullpup lurker???
Please share your wisdom...
raf  [Site Staff]
10/11/2010 8:15:53 PM
Lurker? How quickly we forget....
Onslaught  [Team Member]
10/12/2010 10:27:44 AM
Originally Posted By Optimus_Prime:
Originally Posted By Onslaught:
Doesn't the M17S have a typical Bushmaster HBAR? Did you have anything done besides the 4.5" of length cut off? Fluting or re-profiling that beast might make a big difference in the weight of the weapon.

Poor Bushmaster really missed the boat on these. If they had integrated the Carbon Fiber technology they got when they bought out Auto Ordnance into a redesigned M17, maybe looked into ambi or left and right versions, they could have been the phenom of the bullpup market.

Bushy never gave this weapon the "love and attention" it deserved.


Bushmaster bought out Professional Ordnance, not Auto Ordnance. It was Kahr Arms who had bought out Auto Ordnance.


Ah yeah, I didn't think that sounded right. Thanks for the correction.
badkarmaiii  [Team Member]
10/12/2010 11:17:14 AM
Originally Posted By raf:
Lurker? How quickly we forget....



Haven't seen you around here lately...
Please do share those pics.
Trumpet  [Team Member]
10/12/2010 8:27:06 PM
Best M17 I've ever seen. Too bad BM didn't make them like that in the first place.
ihon  [Team Member]
10/13/2010 12:59:54 PM
I absolutely love the vent cuts on the M17 pictured in the original post. That really makes that M17 look like a completely new gun. Those are very classy mods. If I had one, I would definitely have similar mods done to it.

Bushmaster really, really needs to do a slight make over and re-release the M17. The basic concept is sound. They just need to polish it up.
raf  [Site Staff]
10/14/2010 4:54:42 PM
Originally Posted By badkarmaiii:
Originally Posted By raf:
Lurker? How quickly we forget....



Haven't seen you around here lately...
Please do share those pics.


For opsec reasons, I am not keen on posting pix of my thoroughly Fed- and State-legal firearms.

I may post some written descriptions of some key features––as I have done in the past, before this forum existed.

As for the key trigger mod, I am looking for a gunsmith, like the late, lamented Kurt, who might be willing to negotiate with me for the rights. I already have photos and dated workslips from my gunsmith showing the mods, so i figure i have something like a common-law copyright. The M-17S trigger mod transforms the crappy stock trigger into something approaching excellent.

Ask TimJ, a member here. He pulled the trigger on my M17S a few times, and thought it surprisingly decent.
SIG-shooter  [Member]
10/14/2010 4:57:46 PM
Thats a great looking M17s
TargetShooter2  [Member]
10/14/2010 5:39:21 PM
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By badkarmaiii:
Originally Posted By raf:
Lurker? How quickly we forget....



Haven't seen you around here lately...
Please do share those pics.


For opsec reasons, I am not keen on posting pix of my thoroughly Fed- and State-legal firearms.

I may post some written descriptions of some key features––as I have done in the past, before this forum existed.

As for the key trigger mod, I am looking for a gunsmith, like the late, lamented Kurt, who might be willing to negotiate with me for the rights. I already have photos and dated workslips from my gunsmith showing the mods, so i figure i have something like a common-law copyright. The M-17S trigger mod transforms the crappy stock trigger into something approaching excellent.

Ask TimJ, a member here. He pulled the trigger on my M17S a few times, and thought it surprisingly decent.


i do mods on the m17 aswell , milling ~ turning and triggers
maybe i should apply for some of that commen -law copy right stuff to

your m17 looks good , any chance any debris can contact the piston ?

TS2



paletiger13  [Member]
10/15/2010 9:55:58 PM
Hey TargetShooter2, noticed you on Yahoos M17S chat. I'm an expected M17S father this coming Tuesday. Ken McAlister is sending a modified one to me. I'm stoked
srfnken  [Member]
10/17/2010 1:57:07 PM
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By badkarmaiii:
Originally Posted By raf:
Lurker? How quickly we forget....



Haven't seen you around here lately...
Please do share those pics.


For opsec reasons, I am not keen on posting pix of my thoroughly Fed- and State-legal firearms.

I may post some written descriptions of some key features––as I have done in the past, before this forum existed.

As for the key trigger mod, I am looking for a gunsmith, like the late, lamented Kurt, who might be willing to negotiate with me for the rights. I already have photos and dated workslips from my gunsmith showing the mods, so i figure i have something like a common-law copyright. The M-17S trigger mod transforms the crappy stock trigger into something approaching excellent.

Ask TimJ, a member here. He pulled the trigger on my M17S a few times, and thought it surprisingly decent.


As for the trigger "FIX" I just finished up developing the trigger job which will bring it down to a 6lb trigger pull. I will be offering it first to to the loyal customers I have had in the past at a discount price, then to the general public on my web site. I am in the process on documenting the FIX as to have the rights to it so no one can take it and copy it.
Kenhttp://www.kmaerospace.com/M17s.html
As per order of Ed, SR, No advertising and NO selling on this Site, unless you are a supporter of this site. I will let this one instance slide, but please do not repeat. raf
paletiger13  [Member]
10/18/2010 9:44:48 AM
Can't wait srfnken! You are doing some incredible work.
edman99  [Member]
11/12/2010 11:15:58 AM
There are some great looking M17s in this thread.

Shane333  [Team Member]
11/12/2010 11:24:16 AM
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Maybe we should petition Bushmaster to bring back the M17 with an updated look like that?






I agree.
Shane333  [Team Member]
11/12/2010 11:27:12 AM
What should an M17 sell for these days? I only ask because I saw one at a local pawn shop and they're asking $1,000 for it.
Onslaught  [Team Member]
11/12/2010 1:55:21 PM
Originally Posted By Shane333:
What should an M17 sell for these days? I only ask because I saw one at a local pawn shop and they're asking $1,000 for it.


There are a few on GunBroker between $625 and $800 with the latter having a "buy it now" price of $1000.

NONE of them have bids on them, so I'm guessing they're not a hot seller these days.
ILove2Shoot  [Industry Partner]
11/14/2010 6:35:39 PM
going between 600 to 800.......scored one recently for less.....still trying to figure out what I am going to do with it.....it is a project in waiting, but have some really cool ideas that I think I can make work......
Shane333  [Team Member]
11/15/2010 12:09:16 AM
Originally Posted By Onslaught:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
What should an M17 sell for these days? I only ask because I saw one at a local pawn shop and they're asking $1,000 for it.


There are a few on GunBroker between $625 and $800 with the latter having a "buy it now" price of $1000.

NONE of them have bids on them, so I'm guessing they're not a hot seller these days.


That explains why this pawnshop has had it on the rack for at least half a year. Come to think of it, their gun selection doesn't seem to have changed at all since I stopped in to browse a vew months ago.
ILove2Shoot  [Industry Partner]
11/15/2010 9:39:22 PM
anyone know if Bushmaster still has some spare parts left? I keep coming back to a crazy idea............SBR'd 300 blackout.......about 18" OAL and a 10.5"ish barrel.................why is the idea of this keep giving me a woody.
edman99  [Member]
11/16/2010 7:39:26 AM
Originally Posted By ILove2Shoot:
anyone know if Bushmaster still has some spare parts left? ....


Last I heard they still were offering their Field Repair Kits for them.

chibajoe  [Member]
11/16/2010 12:54:31 PM
Originally Posted By ILove2Shoot:
anyone know if Bushmaster still has some spare parts left? I keep coming back to a crazy idea............SBR'd 300 blackout.......about 18" OAL and a 10.5"ish barrel.................why is the idea of this keep giving me a woody.


I think you're going to have to redo the gas piston system if you go that short. If you're going to do something that small, what you want to start with is one of these:





ILove2Shoot  [Industry Partner]
11/16/2010 6:42:59 PM
since it would be a new barrel, it would be easy to position the should farther back. and shortening the piston op rod would not take much.....or just make a new op rod in the shorter length. that would be about it.
MadDogDan  [Team Member]
11/16/2010 7:37:44 PM
chibajoe: I am thinking of pulling the trigger (pun intended) on one of those 1970's era Bushmaster Arm Pistols. They are not cheap as almost new in box go for $1,600 and I even found an original full auto for $13,000. It would be cool to have a little piece (pun intended again) of history like that.

MadDog
paletiger13  [Member]
12/4/2010 10:13:09 PM
Here's mine
badkarmaiii  [Team Member]
12/5/2010 12:12:33 AM
That is seeexxxyyy!!!
snaggletooth1925  [Team Member]
12/5/2010 1:56:45 AM
Does anyone have any pics of the bolts for an M17?
paletiger13  [Member]
12/5/2010 11:33:17 AM
Give me a bit and I'll get you some pictures of the bolt. K&M did the mods also, I have to give him alot of props for making this a seeeeeeexy build.;)
srfnken  [Member]
12/5/2010 11:48:49 AM
Post deleted, for reason, see above warning to same poster. raf

FYI, you might want to read this link; it was intended for the Tactical Gear Forum, but i think it will be worth your while;http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=10&t=279340

Now, I have already warned you once about offering products/services for sale outside the EE. This is your second, and final warning. You may respond to posts directed expressly towards you, but only to answer the exact question posed. If any of your posts cross the line into what I feel is advertising or the like, I will boot you from the site. raf
snaggletooth1925  [Team Member]
12/5/2010 7:58:43 PM
I sent you an email regarding a lefty conversion. What about workinf on some sort of brass deflector similar to the one for the STG/E4?
paletiger13  [Member]
12/5/2010 9:22:25 PM
Here's the bolt for the M17S in this order
top, left, right, bottom