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 Anyplace to get steel core .308 bullets?
mjohn3006  [Team Member]
4/25/2012 3:34:22 AM EST
Google is unforgiving. Brings up AP 30-06, fully loaded ammo and everything but what I am looking for.

Does anyone make a steel core .308 for reloading?



ETA okay then, never mind. I did not know it was illegal. Now I do.
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COSteve  [Team Member]
4/25/2012 4:35:40 AM EST
You don't want anywhere near steel bullets for a 308. You'd be making armor piercing .308 ammo which is illegal per the ATF. Yes, armor piercing 30-06 is allowed by nothing that can be loaded into a handgun can be armor piercing and someone, somewhere made a .308 pistol so it's illegal too.
mjohn3006  [Team Member]
4/25/2012 4:42:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By COSteve:
You don't want anywhere near steel bullets for a 308. You'd be making armor piercing .308 ammo which is illegal per the ATF. Yes, armor piercing 30-06 is allowed by nothing that can be loaded into a handgun can be armor piercing and someone, somewhere made a .308 pistol so it's illegal too.


I was wondering about that. I seemed to remember about it being illegal. But is it .308 specifically that is illegal? I was actually looking to load some 300 Blackout. I have a sheet of soft steel I thought would be fun to poke some holes in. But if illegal I obviously won't.
T18B40  [Member]
4/25/2012 5:47:48 AM EST
Individuals can have and make as much .308 AP as they desire, you just can't sell it. It's probably illegal in areas where most things are, i.e. CA, HI, NY, NJ, etc. Roll your own if you can find the bullets, which you can from time to time.
Plasteredtex  [Team Member]
4/25/2012 7:32:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By T18B40:
Individuals can have and make as much .308 AP as they desire, you just can't sell it. It's probably illegal in areas where most things are, i.e. CA, HI, NY, NJ, etc. Roll your own if you can find the bullets, which you can from time to time.


So get .308 dia bullets for .30.06 and load for your 308
Moondog  [Team Member]
4/25/2012 9:57:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By COSteve:
You don't want anywhere near steel bullets for a 308. You'd be making armor piercing .308 ammo which is illegal per the ATF. Yes, armor piercing 30-06 is allowed by nothing that can be loaded into a handgun can be armor piercing and someone, somewhere made a .308 pistol so it's illegal too.


Crazy law. Remington, Savage, and Thompson Center have made single shot handguns in just about every rifle caliber out there (including .30-06.)

Edited to add: From a purely academic view, I wonder if the black paint can be easily removed using a tumbler? I do not condone removing the designating paint, just curious in the search for knowledge.
Chas8008  [Team Member]
4/25/2012 3:54:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Moondog:
Originally Posted By COSteve:
You don't want anywhere near steel bullets for a 308. You'd be making armor piercing .308 ammo which is illegal per the ATF. Yes, armor piercing 30-06 is allowed by nothing that can be loaded into a handgun can be armor piercing and someone, somewhere made a .308 pistol so it's illegal too.


Crazy law. Remington, Savage, and Thompson Center have made single shot handguns in just about every rifle caliber out there (including .30-06.)

Edited to add: From a purely academic view, I wonder if the black paint can be easily removed using a tumbler? I do not condone removing the designating paint, just curious in the search for knowledge.

Anything will take the paint off.

Tumbling or even hoppies #9,
TimpAR  [Member]
4/25/2012 8:31:47 PM EST
30 cal AP bullets are still available, just getting pricey. When current stock is gone, there likely will not be any more.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/953278034/Non-Guns/Reloading/Components/Bullets/50ct_30_308_cal_Israeli_M_61_A_P_Bullet.htm

http://www.ammogarand.com/3006-ap-192rd-spam-in-m1-garand-clips-amp-ba300619221.html
viper5243  [Team Member]
4/26/2012 1:25:34 AM EST
I had a bunch a few months ago. Some guy bought them all for about 1.50 a bullet.
Rocket2Mars  [Member]
4/26/2012 4:59:34 AM EST
There is all kinds of 308 AP ammo and projectiles for sale on the internet. Try searching some more.

I will go out on a limp here and say it is not illegal or there would not be any AP available.
GLOCKENNBOOMER  [Member]
4/26/2012 11:10:14 AM EST
How come steel core SS109's are legal?
txgp17  [Team Member]
4/26/2012 11:46:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By T18B40:
Individuals can have and make as much .308 AP as they desire, you just can't sell it. It's probably illegal in areas where most things are, i.e. CA, HI, NY, NJ, etc. Roll your own if you can find the bullets, which you can from time to time.
This.
Legal to roll your own. Illegal to roll them and sell them, aka "manufacture."

That's why I have over 1,500 projectiles in storage.
robpiat  [Member]
4/26/2012 11:53:10 AM EST
Also illegal to make your own new projectiles IIRC but OK to use surplus.

30 caliber AP is not particularly impressive. Anything that would be penetrated by 30 AP would likely be penetrated by a smaller high velocity caliber.
dryflash3  [Moderator]
4/26/2012 5:37:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By GLOCKENNBOOMER:
How come steel core SS109's are legal?

A soft steel insert (penetrator, SS-109) is different than the hardened steel penerator in an AP round.


SS-109's


AP on the top.
miltonshooter  [Member]
4/26/2012 8:00:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By GLOCKENNBOOMER:
How come steel core SS109's are legal?


Per the Gun Control Act (18 U.S.C. Chapter 44)

Exemptions: The following articles
are exempted from the definition of armor
piercing ammunition.

5.56 mm (.223) SS 109 and M855
Ammunition, identified by a green coating
on the projectile tip.

U.S. .30-06 M2AP, identified by a
black coating on the projectile tip.

GLOCKENNBOOMER  [Member]
4/26/2012 10:27:23 PM EST
Thanks for the replies. I would think steel core is steel core, and that steel core pretty much means AP rounds. Second question,Where can I get some SS109's for reloading?
miltonshooter  [Member]
4/27/2012 2:53:32 AM EST
[quote]Originally Posted By GLOCKENNBOOMER:
Thanks for the replies. I would think steel core is steel core, and that steel core pretty much means AP rounds. Second question,Where can I get some SS109's for reloading?[/quote

Despite whatever the gooberment may decide, steel core does not make ammunition armor piercing.

The combloc countries commonly used mild steel cores to cut costs.

Real armor piercing ammo has a hard steel core and will be penetrate farther on hard targets. Soft steel core ammo penetrates about as far lead core ammo on hard targets.

Drill bits and coat hangers are both metal, but it does not make them equal.


.
mjohn3006  [Team Member]
4/27/2012 3:23:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By miltonshooter:
[quote]Originally Posted By GLOCKENNBOOMER:
Thanks for the replies. I would think steel core is steel core, and that steel core pretty much means AP rounds. Second question,Where can I get some SS109's for reloading?[/quote

Despite whatever the gooberment may decide, steel core does not make ammunition armor piercing.

The combloc countries commonly used mild steel cores to cut costs.

Real armor piercing ammo has a hard steel core and will be penetrate farther on hard targets. Soft steel core ammo penetrates about as far lead core ammo on hard targets.

Drill bits and coat hangers are both metal, but it does not make them equal.


.


Then why does the military have M855?
miltonshooter  [Member]
4/27/2012 4:14:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Originally Posted By miltonshooter:
[quote]Originally Posted By GLOCKENNBOOMER:
Thanks for the replies. I would think steel core is steel core, and that steel core pretty much means AP rounds. Second question,Where can I get some SS109's for reloading?[/quote

Despite whatever the gooberment may decide, steel core does not make ammunition armor piercing.

The combloc countries commonly used mild steel cores to cut costs.

Real armor piercing ammo has a hard steel core and will be penetrate farther on hard targets. Soft steel core ammo penetrates about as far lead core ammo on hard targets.

Drill bits and coat hangers are both metal, but it does not make them equal.


.


Then why does the military have M855?


Because someone decided that poking a hole in a helmet at a long way out was important.

Was the improved capability to poke a hole in a helmet a result of a little bit of soft steel being a "penetrator" or was it because the bullet is ass heavy and more stable and tends to hit straighter on impact.? I don't know.
LonelyRaven  [Member]
4/27/2012 4:38:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By miltonshooter:
[quote]Originally Posted By GLOCKENNBOOMER:


Despite whatever the gooberment may decide, steel core does not make ammunition armor piercing.

.

No, it's the Teflon coating that does that.
dyezak  [Team Member]
4/27/2012 5:42:57 AM EST
Just get a Corbin Swage machine, some .30cal swage dies, some copper cups, some scrap lead, and some hardened tungston carbide rods... Roll your own
GLOCKENNBOOMER  [Member]
4/27/2012 10:34:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By LonelyRaven:

Originally Posted By miltonshooter:
[quote]Originally Posted By GLOCKENNBOOMER:


Despite whatever the gooberment may decide, steel core does not make ammunition armor piercing.

.

No, it's the Teflon coating that does that.


So I can just spray my bullets with PAM cooking spray and make AP bullets? LMAO

It seems like I read somewhere someone suggested that......seriously.

uafgrad  [Life Member]
4/27/2012 5:16:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By COSteve:
You don't want anywhere near steel bullets for a 308. You'd be making armor piercing .308 ammo which is illegal per the ATF. Yes, armor piercing 30-06 is allowed by nothing that can be loaded into a handgun can be armor piercing and someone, somewhere made a .308 pistol so it's illegal too.


Desert Eagle makes a pistol in 30-06
GLOCKENNBOOMER  [Member]
4/27/2012 6:39:02 PM EST
A Desert Eagle pistol in .30-06, FO RIZZLE????

LMAO
txgp17  [Team Member]
4/28/2012 6:25:09 AM EST
To the "M855 is not AP" crowd...

A friend of mine has is own 600 yard range on his property. He has a human silhouette target cut form ½" steel plate hanging from an old swing set. We shoot it with everything, from 300 Win Mag, to 308, to 5.56, to 6.5x284. Nothing leaves a bigger crater in the metal than the M855, save any real "M2" AP stuff that we're both saving for a rainy day. It leaves bigger craters from 500 yards than a Barnes X bullet does from a handloaded 300 Win Mag at 200 yards, but it does not penetrate.

M855 may not be classified as AP, but penetrates a heck of a lot better than any conventional projectile, even those fired from more powerful cartridges.
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