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Annealing (300 BLK)
4/21/2012 5:37:36 PM
I should be getting my 300 BLK dies in this coming week. The more I read, the more I think annealing is necessary. I'm not going to shell out a bunch of money to do it, as I just bought an upper and a bunch of reloading supplies. In perusing the internet, I think the most viable option is going to be with my Lee shellholder in a drill and a torch. Is anyone out there doing this to 300 BLK? I'd appreciate some guidance from someone that knows what they are doing, as not many people reload on my level around here. My only concern is assuring I have the right temperature for the right amount of time. I know that if the case glows red it is to be tossed. Hopefully someone out there can school me!
Jon
Jon
4/21/2012 6:06:21 PM
I think that what you're suggesting is much too time consuming.
I simply hold cartridges with a pair or pliers if its a small cartridge or simply in a gloved hand and with a small flame make the shoulder and neck turn color and drop them in a bucket of water.
Why get elaborate?
I simply hold cartridges with a pair or pliers if its a small cartridge or simply in a gloved hand and with a small flame make the shoulder and neck turn color and drop them in a bucket of water.
Why get elaborate?
4/21/2012 6:56:47 PM
I used this and now do it by eye.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/360902/hornady-annealing-system?productNumber=360902
Edit: I've seen people do it on the Internet and I think most of them over due it. Make brass too soft and might have issue with neck tension.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/360902/hornady-annealing-system?productNumber=360902
Edit: I've seen people do it on the Internet and I think most of them over due it. Make brass too soft and might have issue with neck tension.
4/21/2012 6:57:08 PM
I'm contemplating doing the same thing to my 300 B/O brass.
I bought the 700° Tempilaq to aid the process. The stuff turned black when painted on the exterior of the case. Next I'll try painting it on the inside of the case neck.
Should that approach fail the lead pot gets called into duty.
I bought the 700° Tempilaq to aid the process. The stuff turned black when painted on the exterior of the case. Next I'll try painting it on the inside of the case neck.
Should that approach fail the lead pot gets called into duty.
4/21/2012 7:13:17 PM
"When, why, how and if to anneal"
http://www.kenlightmfg.com/cartridgecaseannealer.htm
It makes for a good read.
http://www.kenlightmfg.com/cartridgecaseannealer.htm
It makes for a good read.
4/21/2012 7:33:48 PM
Thanks guys. I'm still reading some. I'm not really concerned with time. I'll only be shooting 30-50 rounds a weekend of 300 blk.How long are you keeping the torch to the round?
4/21/2012 8:05:20 PM
I have been doing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgD5D0Wzu-c&feature=related
Works like a champ.
Works like a champ.
4/21/2012 8:33:00 PM
Not sure if painting the inside of the neck with a laquer is a good idea. What about the coeff of friction between roasted Tempelaq and bullet gilding?
I think the "glow red" instruction was for using in a dimly lit or dark room, not in a brightly lit room. It was only for the neck to glow dull red, not the neck and shoulder.
As shown, the 5.56 case hardness Mil-spec for M855 necks is between 90 and 115 Vickers DHP (at 2.5 Kg load). What hardness are you measuring after your annealing process?
I think the "glow red" instruction was for using in a dimly lit or dark room, not in a brightly lit room. It was only for the neck to glow dull red, not the neck and shoulder.
As shown, the 5.56 case hardness Mil-spec for M855 necks is between 90 and 115 Vickers DHP (at 2.5 Kg load). What hardness are you measuring after your annealing process?
4/21/2012 8:54:43 PM
I have been using the Giraud. It took some finagaling but it works well and you don't have as much labor. Just load it up and go.
Not my video but same thing.
I helps a little bit but I don't think annealing is necessarily necessary
Not my video but same thing.
I helps a little bit but I don't think annealing is necessarily necessary
4/21/2012 10:54:23 PM
Originally Posted By AMUshooter10:
I have been using the Giraud. It took some finagaling but it works well and you don't have as much labor. Just load it up and go.
Not my video but same thing.
I helps a little bit but I don't think annealing is necessarily necessary
I have been using the Giraud. It took some finagaling but it works well and you don't have as much labor. Just load it up and go.
Not my video but same thing.
I helps a little bit but I don't think annealing is necessarily necessary
Really, even talking about the hard working of the brass during 300 blk formation???
4/21/2012 11:42:01 PM
Originally Posted By 10milg29:
Really, even talking about the hard working of the brass during 300 blk formation???
Originally Posted By AMUshooter10:
I have been using the Giraud. It took some finagaling but it works well and you don't have as much labor. Just load it up and go.
Not my video but same thing.
I helps a little bit but I don't think annealing is necessarily necessary
I have been using the Giraud. It took some finagaling but it works well and you don't have as much labor. Just load it up and go.
Not my video but same thing.
I helps a little bit but I don't think annealing is necessarily necessary
Really, even talking about the hard working of the brass during 300 blk formation???
I have shot the shit out of mine and reloaded them 4 times without doing it.
I only do it if I am going for accuracy which is a waste of time for 300 Bo imo
Do you anneal yours before you trim?
4/21/2012 11:48:01 PM
Originally Posted By 10milg29:
Really, even talking about the hard working of the brass during 300 blk formation???
Originally Posted By AMUshooter10:
I have been using the Giraud. It took some finagaling but it works well and you don't have as much labor. Just load it up and go.
Not my video but same thing.
I helps a little bit but I don't think annealing is necessarily necessary
I have been using the Giraud. It took some finagaling but it works well and you don't have as much labor. Just load it up and go.
Not my video but same thing.
I helps a little bit but I don't think annealing is necessarily necessary
Really, even talking about the hard working of the brass during 300 blk formation???
How many reloads have you gotten out of your brass?
How much differently does your rifle shoot with annealed vs unannealed?
What brass are you using to form your cases?
4/22/2012 5:03:05 AM
I have brass that I have made from .221, .223 and production 300BLK brass. None except the production brass was annealed.
The .221 was a huge neck up and I lost about 1 out of 20 to neck split. The .223 was a very small neck down and hardly works the brass at all. I have never lost a single .223 to re sizing it to 300BLK.
I use the .221 brass mostly for the subsonics as it put very little pressure on the brass and have gotten more than 5 reloads from them and counting. In the batch of 200 I did only two had split necks. One was after the first load in which the neck was probably already damaged and I just missed it the other was after the second reload and actually split while being re sized. The converted .223 have done even better in that I have loaded the with both subs and supers. I have some .223 brass that has been loaded over 8 times and have maybe culled 3 from the lot of around 150. These original pieces were made before the cheap brass was plentiful and I did all my workups on them so some were pushing close to over pressure and I am still loading the vast majority of that early brass.
With the 300BLK production brass I have only reloaded about 100 of them once as they come pre primed and annealed so I use my hot home defense loads with them. Out of those 100 I did use while working up a load for that brass and the new 110gr black tip. Not one had any signs of cracks or stress when I went to reload them again.
I already have one Giraud and if I had the Giraud annealer I would probably do it every 3 to 4 reloads but I wouldn't find it necessary to do and with how cheap the brass is it may just be a lot easier to buy once fired than keep annealing them to get the max life out of the brass.
The .221 was a huge neck up and I lost about 1 out of 20 to neck split. The .223 was a very small neck down and hardly works the brass at all. I have never lost a single .223 to re sizing it to 300BLK.
I use the .221 brass mostly for the subsonics as it put very little pressure on the brass and have gotten more than 5 reloads from them and counting. In the batch of 200 I did only two had split necks. One was after the first load in which the neck was probably already damaged and I just missed it the other was after the second reload and actually split while being re sized. The converted .223 have done even better in that I have loaded the with both subs and supers. I have some .223 brass that has been loaded over 8 times and have maybe culled 3 from the lot of around 150. These original pieces were made before the cheap brass was plentiful and I did all my workups on them so some were pushing close to over pressure and I am still loading the vast majority of that early brass.
With the 300BLK production brass I have only reloaded about 100 of them once as they come pre primed and annealed so I use my hot home defense loads with them. Out of those 100 I did use while working up a load for that brass and the new 110gr black tip. Not one had any signs of cracks or stress when I went to reload them again.
I already have one Giraud and if I had the Giraud annealer I would probably do it every 3 to 4 reloads but I wouldn't find it necessary to do and with how cheap the brass is it may just be a lot easier to buy once fired than keep annealing them to get the max life out of the brass.
4/22/2012 8:45:07 AM
Great post, that's the type of information I was looking for. I may just learn how to do it, just to do it. How long are you guys holding the flame to the cartridge?
4/22/2012 10:59:11 AM
All this talk got me motivated so I tried the Tempilaq inside the neck. Worked good, no black crusty crud was formed.
Afterwards I used a bronze brush to remove any residue in the neck. Can I tell any difference during sizing - nope - but I thought it would be fun to try it.
Next up are my 280 Remington cases.
Afterwards I used a bronze brush to remove any residue in the neck. Can I tell any difference during sizing - nope - but I thought it would be fun to try it.
Next up are my 280 Remington cases.
4/22/2012 11:39:17 AM
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_56/ai_n56225198/
Instead of a torch, use a simple paraffin candle. Believe it or not, the tip of a candle flame produces over 1,500 degrees f. By applying heat-paint that melts at 725 to 750 degrees to the neck of the case, eventually found holding a typical rifle case about halfway up the body, then turning the neck in the tip of the candle-flame until the case grew too hot to hold, produced the right amount of annealing.When the case gets too hot to hold, it's dropped on a wet towel and wiped off, both removing the soot from the candle flame and preventing heat from migrating to the head of the case. I generally use paper towels, tossing them when they get too dirty, but a cotton towel will do.
Might work?4/22/2012 4:18:17 PM
Originally Posted By 243winxb:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_56/ai_n56225198/
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_56/ai_n56225198/
Instead of a torch, use a simple paraffin candle. Believe it or not, the tip of a candle flame produces over 1,500 degrees f. By applying heat-paint that melts at 725 to 750 degrees to the neck of the case, eventually found holding a typical rifle case about halfway up the body, then turning the neck in the tip of the candle-flame until the case grew too hot to hold, produced the right amount of annealing.When the case gets too hot to hold, it's dropped on a wet towel and wiped off, both removing the soot from the candle flame and preventing heat from migrating to the head of the case. I generally use paper towels, tossing them when they get too dirty, but a cotton towel will do.
Might work?I've heard of this...conversely, I've also heard that the candle flame just isn't hot enough.
4/22/2012 5:38:17 PM
Instead of the LEE shellholder, use a deep socket. This method works surprisingly fast.
4/22/2012 5:53:30 PM
Originally Posted By zw123:
Instead of the LEE shellholder, use a deep socket. This method works surprisingly fast.
Instead of the LEE shellholder, use a deep socket. This method works surprisingly fast.
I was thinking about that
